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Joseph Moshe - Arrested in LA by FBI for Going Public about Vaccine

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    #32
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    King Mob wrote: »
    Your absolutely right I'm a sheeple because I don't blindly believe the conspiracy site.

    Then maybe you can show some actual credible source that shows this guy was a scientist?

    Because to me that looks to be a complete fiction.

    But if a conspiracy site says it must be true right?

    What's wrong with a conspiracy site?


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    #33
    indough
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    nothing as long as they can provide credible sources


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    #34
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    indough wrote: »
    nothing as long as they can provide credible sources

    The governments sites are not very credible at times. So it's really biased to be so against conspiracy sites for info.

    What exactly is credible by your standards.


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    #35
    EXODUS251022
    Closed Accounts Posts: 42 ✭EXODUS251022


    uprising wrote: »
    This story is strange, they say they arrested him for making threats against the white house, fired tear gas into his car and he sat in it smoking,wtf?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/14/man-suspected-of-making-t_n_259330.html

    another account
    http://celebgalz.com/joseph-moshe-joseph-moshe-federal-building-drama/

    some video's
    http://pimpinturtle.com/2009/08/21/the-strange-case-of-joseph-moshe.aspx
    Now what did we just see here ?
    The suspect remained calm during a volley of tear gas and smoke grenade assualts. Seatbelt still on, not speaking or displaying any threatening behaviour whatsoever.
    We also see a very cautious swat team backing off very quickly after spraying a stream of pepper spray into the (now broken) drivers side window.
    However, the driver remained in his vehicle to the sheer amazement of everyone watching live.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1206515/Dramatic-moment-man-threatened-blow-White-House-Tasered-police-hour-stand-off.html#ixzz0OCOhnbQv
    Police then fired tear gas into the suspect's vehicle in an attempt to force him to surrender.
    But Moshe remained inside the car and briefly wound down the passenger window to let out the fumes.

    He withstood four rounds of chemical agents before officers shot out the drivers' window with a bean bag gun.

    POST#3

    From this link above http://pimpinturtle.com/2009/08/21/the-strange-case-of-joseph-moshe.aspx

    The information is this: The ******* is being manufactured in Ukraine. It is not a ******* at all, but rather an engineered genetically mutated bio-weapon meant to cause sickness and death. Moshe informed the White House he intended to go public with this information. When he became aware that the FBI was about to detain him, he packed some belongings in his car and set out for the Israeli consulate, located in close proximity to the federal building where the standoff took place. FBI pursuit kept him from reaching his destination.


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    #36
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    EXODUS251022 wrote: »
    POST#3

    From this link above http://pimpinturtle.com/2009/08/21/the-strange-case-of-joseph-moshe.aspx

    The information is this: The ******* is being manufactured in Ukraine. It is not a ******* at all, but rather an engineered genetically mutated bio-weapon meant to cause sickness and death. Moshe informed the White House he intended to go public with this information. When he became aware that the FBI was about to detain him, he packed some belongings in his car and set out for the Israeli consulate, located in close proximity to the federal building where the standoff took place. FBI pursuit kept him from reaching his destination.
    So random anonymous guy on the internet made this claim and not Joseph Moshe?
    And it wasn't a plague that was predicted at all but an unverified claim that the vaccine (funny how they don't say which vaccine) was being produced in the Ukraine?

    Colour me unimpressed.


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    #37
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    King Mob wrote: »
    So random anonymous guy on the internet made this claim and not Joseph Moshe?
    And it wasn't a plague that was predicted at all but an unverified claim that the vaccine (funny how they don't say which vaccine) was being produced in the Ukraine?

    Colour me unimpressed.


    So what does it take for someone not to be so random?


    Does been "random" determine a judgment of the evidence provided. We could say the same for most people in the CIA, FBI, NASA, al random, unknown, anonymonous and even secretive. Again I'm trying to find the logic behind your biase!

    So how is someone supposed to reveal info exactly when it's info that is been supressed.


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    #38
    indough
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    mysterious wrote: »
    The governments sites are not very credible at times. So it's really biased to be so against conspiracy sites for info.

    What exactly is credible by your standards.

    something which does not rely solely on opinion and has some consensus from its peers, with solid evidence to support it


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    #39
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    indough wrote: »
    something which does not rely solely on opinion and has some consensus from its peers, with solid evidence to support it


    What's solid evidence, and who should we deem reliable? How should this man act, if the FBI are after him. Lets look at the facts of the matter and be real about the information as its stands.

    How exactly should this supressed info be exposed? RTE news? If this is to be supressed and obviously not wanting to be outted, what exactly should this man do. This info is not going to get on mainstream news. The media and cooporations are a threat to exposure like this. Could this man go into ABC after getting dropped charges by the FBI? and (not randomly appear anyomonous as King Mob said and walk straight into ABC and give out this information and go live with Katic Couric.

    I know, it won't happen. lol.

    I'm still trying hard to find out what your trying to say, who should we exactly trust? Where should we get evidence from?


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    #40
    indough
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    what are you going on about mysterious? its fairly obvious that there is a distinction between credible and non credible evidence, you wouldnt get away with anything airy fairy in a courtroom for example

    why does every discussion have to turn into some sort of abstract philosophical debate?


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    #41
    mysterious
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    indough wrote: »
    what are you going on about mysterious? its fairly obvious that there is a distinction between credible and non credible evidence, you wouldnt get away with anything airy fairy in a courtroom for example

    why does every discussion have to turn into some sort of abstract philosophical debate?


    No I'm looking for clarity and proper perspective.

    Again, you haven't really answered a direct question.
    Who should we rely on for solid evidence?

    Maybe you could elaborate how this man should get the info out without the FBI on his back?

    Should we go straight to ABC and do airtime with Katic Couric, or will that mean his life would be under threat. What are your reasons and evidence to suggest dismissal to his claims despite the FBI been after him. So how should this evidence be brought forward, when you have the entire system up against you. governments, CIA, FBI and the media.

    These orgainisations we trust.:D


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    #42
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    Lads anymore off topic posting (including reference to this post) will result in infractions/bans.


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    #43
    IrelandSpirit
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    Well one of the things Moshe apparently tried to warn about was that swine flu was not 'naturally occurring' but rather made in a lab, which does appear to correct:

    "Two of the scientists who filed for a patent for a genetically engineered, artificial swine flu virus, work for WHO and St Jude's Children Research Hospital.



    New Zealanders Robert Webster and Richard Webby are listed as patent holders for the US Patent Application 20090010962 - Genetically Engineered Swine Influenza Virus and Uses Thereof

    http://www.patentstorm.us/applications/20090010962/claims.html



    Robert Webster holds the Rose Marie Thomas Chair in Virology at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. He is also director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on the Ecology of Influenza Viruses in Lower Animals and Birds, the world's only laboratory designed to study influenza at the animal-human interface, according to Wikipedia."

    I dunno, I clicked that link to the patent and it does look real enough... is it?


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    #44
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    IrelandSpirit wrote: »
    Well one of the things Moshe apparently tried to warn about was that swine flu was not 'naturally occurring' but rather made in a lab, which does appear to correct:

    I'm not sure how you conclude that it appears correct.

    Someone has made a patent application for potential uses of genetically engineered swine flu....ergo this particular strain of swine flu is genetically engineered?

    There seems to be something particularly missing when you look at the text of the patent. Even without a medical degree, its clear that what the authors are describing doesn't match what is being observed in the current pandemic.
    I dunno, I clicked that link to the patent and it does look real enough... is it?

    Its in the US Patent & Trademark database, (which is available online and free to access) as a patent application.


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    #45
    IrelandSpirit
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭IrelandSpirit


    bonkey wrote: »
    I'm not sure how you conclude that it appears correct.

    Someone has made a patent application for potential uses of genetically engineered swine flu....ergo this particular strain of swine flu is genetically engineered?

    There seems to be something particularly missing when you look at the text of the patent. Even without a medical degree, its clear that what the authors are describing doesn't match what is being observed in the current pandemic.



    Its in the US Patent & Trademark database, (which is available online and free to access) as a patent application.

    Not sure either Bonkey, what got my attention was that swine flu is supposed to be an entirely new and naturally occurring virus and yet it states:
    US Patent Application 20090010962 - Genetically Engineered Swine Influenza Virus and Uses Thereof

    And the date it was filed and published:

    Application Filed on June 1, 2005
    Application Published on January 8, 2009


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    #46
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    IrelandSpirit wrote: »
    Not sure either Bonkey, what got my attention was that swine flu is supposed to be an entirely new and naturally occurring virus

    I think you've picked something up wrong somewhere along the line.

    This particular strain of Swine Flu is a new strain. Swine flu as a general classification is not new.

    So its incorrect to say that swin flu is "entirely new". This particular pandemic strain is new....but there are a myriad strains already in existence, and given the mutability of influenza in general, its pretty certain that there will be a myriad more.

    The research was also about a strain of swine flu...a genetically engineered one.

    There is no evidence (nor, I would argue, reason) to suggest that these two strains are one and the same, any more then there is to suggest that these guys paper somehow indicates that the 1918 Spanish Flu (another strain of Swine Flu, incidentally) was also genetically engineered, and that it took 80 years for the genetic engineering to come to light.
    And the date it was filed and published:

    Application Filed on June 1, 2005
    Application Published on January 8, 2009

    I'm obviously missing something. what is the significance of these dates?


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    #47
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    IrelandSpirit wrote: »
    Well one of the things Moshe apparently tried to warn about was that swine flu was not 'naturally occurring' but rather made in a lab, which does appear to correct:

    "Two of the scientists who filed for a patent for a genetically engineered, artificial swine flu virus, work for WHO and St Jude's Children Research Hospital.



    New Zealanders Robert Webster and Richard Webby are listed as patent holders for the US Patent Application 20090010962 - Genetically Engineered Swine Influenza Virus and Uses Thereof

    http://www.patentstorm.us/applications/20090010962/claims.html



    Robert Webster holds the Rose Marie Thomas Chair in Virology at St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. He is also director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on the Ecology of Influenza Viruses in Lower Animals and Birds, the world's only laboratory designed to study influenza at the animal-human interface, according to Wikipedia."

    I dunno, I clicked that link to the patent and it does look real enough... is it?
    Did you actually read the patent at all?
    3. SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

    [0023]The present invention provides attenuated swine influenza viruses having an impaired ability to antagonize the cellular interferon (IFN) response, methods for producing such attenuated swine influenza viruses, and the use of such viruses in vaccine and pharmaceutical formulations. Such viruses are capable of generating an immune response and creating immunity but not causing illness or causing fewer and/or less severe symptoms, i.e., the viruses have decreased virulence

    Seems that they were patenting a process to create a genetically engineered virus that was safer than the ordinary virus for various medical uses.

    But if this was the virus currently effecting people and was part of a vast global conspiracy, why did they patent it and make this information availible to the public?
    Application Filed on June 1, 2005
    Application Published on January 8, 2009
    Have you considered the possibility that this was because the patenting process takes time?


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    #48
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    King Mob wrote: »
    They don't look alike.
    They both have moustaches that's about it.
    23kwu1c.jpg

    They do actually. The pic on the right gives the impression of a more relaxed, rested person when the picture was taken and the one on the left shows a distressed/scared and tired person who is struggling to stop being overcome by adrenalin. Otherwise, apart from the state of mind at the time both pictures were taken, it is the same person in both pictures. IMHO anyway.

    My guess is that he had resigned himself to the thought he was going to be killed, so just remained calm and let things run the course.

    Could point either toward a highly delussional state of mind or on the other hand that he's had some professional training of one sort or another in his life (military or otherwise) to deal with situations like he was in.


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    #49
    2Scoops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    One is Joseph Moshe, the other is Mosche (first name) Bar-Joseph (surname). Two entirely different people, as if the photographs weren't evidence enough.


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    #50
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Nehaxak wrote: »
    They do actually. The pic on the right gives the impression of a more relaxed, rested person when the picture was taken and the one on the left shows a distressed/scared and tired person who is struggling to stop being overcome by adrenalin. Otherwise, apart from the state of mind at the time both pictures were taken, it is the same person in both pictures. IMHO anyway.

    My guess is that he had resigned himself to the thought he was going to be killed, so just remained calm and let things run the course.

    Could point either toward a highly delussional state of mind or on the other hand that he's had some professional training of one sort or another in his life (military or otherwise) to deal with situations like he was in.
    Being relaxed gives you more hair and changes it's colour?

    They don't look that similar at all.

    They only thing similar is their name but even that's a miss cause one is Bar-Joseph and the other is just Joseph.

    You realise the picture on the right was taken before the arrest right?


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    #51
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    gnisirpu wrote: »
    And how exactly can a lab created virus give immunity to a naturally occuring virus?, surely the way viruses and vaccines work the vaccine would only give immunity to the lab created virus, or does it work on all viruses?, I'm confused by this.

    You can gain immunity from a naturally occurring virus by using a lab created one that's been altered to be less virulent but still has the same antigens of the naturally occurring one so it promotes the same immune response.
    That's kinda how vaccines work.

    And that's not the only use of the patent either.


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    #52
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    gnisirpu wrote: »
    they dont look that disimilar, look at these guys, it was LA after all.
    Right....

    So now we're only going on similar names and presuming that he had a hair transplant.

    Have we any solid evidence at all that these two guys are the same person?


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    #53
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    2Scoops wrote: »
    One is Joseph Moshe, the other is Mosche (first name) Bar-Joseph (surname). Two entirely different people, as if the photographs weren't evidence enough.

    No both thier last names are Moshe.
    http://www.agri.gov.il/people/856.aspx

    It's listing them last name first.

    Edit: scratch that you're right.
    His last name is in fact Bar Joseph.


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    #54
    2Scoops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    The names are completely different!! Joseph Moshe Vs. Moshe Bar-Joseph. And let's not forget that they look completely different, one is clearly 20 years older than the other, as well as being on the other side of the planet!


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    #55
    2Scoops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    King Mob wrote: »
    It's listing them last name first.

    It's not.


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    #56
    6th
    Registered Users Posts: 17,247 ✭✭✭✭6th


    gnisirpu wrote: »
    And how exactly can a lab created virus give immunity to a naturally occuring virus?, surely the way viruses and vaccines work the vaccine would only give immunity to the lab created virus, or does it work on all viruses?, I'm confused by this.
    gnisirpu wrote: »
    they dont look that disimilar, look at these guys, it was LA after all.

    Unamusing troll.


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    #57
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    2Scoops wrote: »
    It's not.
    Yea only realised after I posted
    See above.

    The main list has them last name first, but switches it for their profile.


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    #58
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    King Mob wrote: »
    Being relaxed gives you more hair and changes it's colour?

    Strangest thing that, the ability for hair to grow.
    Also, hair die maybe ?
    They don't look that similar at all.

    Nose, eyes, eyebrows, cheeks, facail structure and shape (with a little more weight put on in the newer picture to the left), hairline, forehead - all look the same imo.
    They only thing similar is their name but even that's a miss cause one is Bar-Joseph and the other is just Joseph.

    Funny thing that, my second name is also spelt different in my home country.
    You realise the picture on the right was taken before the arrest right?

    That would be the reason why I mentioned he looked more relaxed and rested, yes.


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    #59
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Nehaxak wrote: »
    Strangest thing that, the ability for hair to grow.
    Also, hair die maybe ?
    People don't tend to gorw more hair as they grow older.
    Nehaxak wrote: »
    Nose, eyes, eyebrows, cheeks, facail structure and shape (with a little more weight put on in the newer picture to the left), hairline, forehead - all look the same imo.
    Nope not seeing it.
    Nose is much wider and flat on the right picture.
    His eyes seem much smaller and further part and his hairline is much further back.
    On the left his fore head sticks out a little more and has a more well defined jaw.

    Over all the guy on the right seems a lot rounder and softer than on the left.
    And the dude on the right looks to have more weight than the dude on the left.
    Nehaxak wrote: »
    Funny thing that, my second name is also spelt different in my home country.
    As has been pointed out by 2Scoops the dude on the right is Moshe Bar-Joseph, the one on the left is Joseph Moshe.

    They have completely different names.
    Nehaxak wrote: »
    That would be the reason why I mentioned he looked more relaxed and rested, yes.
    So what was all that stuff about "resigning himself to be killed"?


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    #60
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    King Mob wrote: »
    People don't tend to gorw more hair as they grow older.

    :rolleyes: He's far from a hippy in the pic on the left now really, it's about a years worth of groomed growth at that age probably.
    So what was all that stuff about "resigning himself to be killed"?

    Oh come on, do you ever even read peoples posts before you jump on them ?

    Here, please, let me spell in out to you again with quotes and interjected edits to make it easier...
    They do actually. The pic on the right gives the impression of a more relaxed, rested person when the picture was taken and the one on the left shows a distressed/scared and tired person who is struggling to stop being overcome by adrenalin. Otherwise, apart from the state of mind at the time both pictures were taken, it is the same person in both pictures. IMHO anyway.

    IN REGARDS TO THE FOLLOWING LET ME MAKE IT QUITE CLEAR THAT I WAS AIMING THESE COMMENTS TOWARD THE ACTUAL STORY ITSELF AND ALSO TO EXPLANING HIS FACIAL COMPOSURE IN THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT, THAT'S THE LEFT, NOT THE RIGHT PICTURE, THE LEFT PICTURE...
    My guess is that he had resigned himself to the thought he was going to be killed, so just remained calm and let things run the course.

    Could point either toward a highly delussional state of mind or on the other hand that he's had some professional training of one sort or another in his life (military or otherwise) to deal with situations like he was in.

    God almighty...:rolleyes:


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    #61
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Nehaxak wrote: »
    :rolleyes: He's far from a hippy in the pic on the left now really, it's about a years worth of groomed growth at that age probably.
    But he has considerably less hair on the right and I don't think anyone shaves it that way.

    Oh and there's the fact they have completely different faces as well.
    Nehaxak wrote: »
    Oh come on, do you ever even read peoples posts before you jump on them ?

    Here, please, let me spell in out to you again with quotes and interjected edits to make it easier...



    IN REGARDS TO THE FOLLOWING LET ME MAKE IT QUITE CLEAR THAT I WAS AIMING THESE COMMENTS TOWARD THE ACTUAL STORY ITSELF AND ALSO TO EXPLANING HIS FACIAL COMPOSURE IN THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT, THAT'S THE LEFT, NOT THE RIGHT PICTURE, THE LEFT PICTURE...



    God almighty...:rolleyes:
    Ok, I misread your post.
    Chill out.


    Now, how do you respond to the fact that these men don't actually share the same name?


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