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What do YOU want out of Lisbon?

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  • 28-09-2009 7:54pm
    #1
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭


    People talk about the economic benefits alot, which is fine.. but it can hardly be said that those voting No want to see Ireland suffer economically.. why would they?

    So what do you (personally) stand to gain from Lisbon?.. be it through a Yes vote or a NO..

    And is the Treaty the only way to go about securing those 'gains'?


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    #2
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    My name is URL wrote: »
    People talk about the economic benefits alot, which is fine.. but it can hardly be said that those voting No want to see Ireland suffer economically.. why would they?

    Why? Because when people are suffering economically they are more likely to join the international socialist workers revolution*, for one. Or give up their materialism and submit to the church, for another.

    I've already answered this question before, earlier today in fact, but anyway...
    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    To me it means:

    1. Making fighting climate change a stated policy of the Union.
    2. Cheaper, cleaner electricity due to increasing Union competence in energy, while tied to point 1.
    3. Giving our (Ireland, and Europe's) values and ethics a stronger voice on the world stage by allowing a unanimously approved common foreign policy.

    That's my top 3 anyway.

    Secondarily:
    I like:
    Space becoming a competence of the EU, I think the greatest thing man has done is leave our planet, no other living species in the history of the Earth has done this.
    The European Parliament gaining more powers over approval, or rejection of legislation. These are our only directly elected representatives in the EU.
    QMV changes, will allow more countries to enter the EU without everyone having to negotiate how many votes they will get, the QMV changes will make it automatic, and mean we are guaranteed not to lose out in negotiations. We are a relatively small country, so this is important for us.

    I could probably think of more, but that's it off the top of my head...



    *
    We believe it is necessary to build an international of socialist parties committed to the overthrow of capitalism and for the building of a socialist world which is why the Socialist Party is affiliated to the Committee for a Workers’ International (CWI) which brings together socialists in over 40 countries
    http://www.socialistparty.net/index.php/about-us.html


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    #3
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    So what do you (personally) stand to gain from Lisbon?.. be it through a Yes vote or a NO..

    me personnally? I dont support either Fianna Fail or Fine Gael and seeing as its rare when its not one of them is the majority party, I am disenfranchised in 3 of the 4 european institutions because it is the national government who is represented in 2 and they nominate the third.

    So increased powers to the European parliament suit me because it is very possible (and is at the moment) have a parliament where the irish voice in the legaslation process is not a FF man.

    There is also the increased oversight by the irish parliament in Eu legaslation aswell, while not as definitive as the increase in the european parliament's power, it ensures that minority parties in irish politics get a voice in the process, again that appeals to me. I understand the limitations of it, but I rather have those limitations then have nothing at all.

    Finally I work in media so my work tends to be either contract or self employed and migration is very much a constent option, Lisbon has self employed migrant workers recognised for the first time in the treaties (article 48 TFEU), its not a major update but it recognises her rights to benefit which Nice doesnt. Which for myself is not a major benefit (at the moment on contract) but it is a benefit for my sister who is a self employed artist and i'm not gonna screw her over.


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    #4
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,068 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    I didn't see the other thread =) Mods can lock this.

    Pope, Socialists have been talking about overthrowing Capatalist rule for 150 years and yet we are where we are today.

    The first 2 points you give are ones I agree with, I just don't think it needs to be tied in with so many other changes.

    I simply don't agree that we should have a common foreign policy, the problems that exist in that dept can be fixed without stripping nations of their decisions on foreign relations.


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    #5
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users Posts: 14,685 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    I simply don't agree that we should have a common foreign policy

    but we already have one?


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    #6
    Mayoegian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Mayoegian


    What I wanted out of Lisbon 1 was for the Irish government to be democratic and accept our NO. What I want out of Lisbon 2 is a NO vote. I am voting NO because I agree with everything the NO side are arguing against, and as well as that, I am voting NO because the government did not accept our last vote, the lapse of democracy like that was something you would only see when Hitler was about.

    The politicians all came out after Lisbon 1 and said the Irish vote needed to be accepted-now they are campaigning intensively, with another referendum costing the taxpayer millions.

    In sooth, Brian Cowen was bullied by EU bureaucrats into having another Lisbon referendum and nobody, and i mean NOBODY is going to tell ME how to vote.

    VOTE NO AND DON'T BE BULLIED


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    #7
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Mayoegian wrote: »
    What I wanted out of Lisbon 1 was for the Irish government to be democratic and accept our NO. What I want out of Lisbon 2 is a NO vote. I am voting NO because I agree with everything the NO side are arguing against, and as well as that, I am voting NO because the government did not accept our last vote, the lapse of democracy like that was something you would only see when Hitler was about.

    The politicians all came out after Lisbon 1 and said the Irish vote needed to be accepted-now they are campaigning intensively, with another referendum costing the taxpayer millions.

    In sooth, Brian Cowen was bullied by EU bureaucrats into having another Lisbon referendum and nobody, and i mean NOBODY is going to tell ME how to vote.

    VOTE NO AND DON'T BE BULLIED

    The large bold font has convinced me to vote no anyway. Out of curiosity how did you get a vote at 16 BTW. ;)


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    #8
    Mayoegian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Mayoegian


    marco_polo wrote: »
    The large bold font has convinced me to vote no anyway. Out of curiosity how did you get a vote at 16 BTW. ;)

    I meant hypothetically;)......:cool: If I did have a vote it would be NO!
    Glad to see you havent been manipulated by greedy politicians-well done;)


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    #9
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    BlitzKrieg wrote: »
    but we already have one?

    I presume he means "a common foreign policy that we have to support whether we agree with it or not."

    There is no such thing in Lisbon - any foreign policy position must be agreed by unanimity. If Ireland wishes neither to support nor oppose a policy, it may abstain rather than not agreeing to it, in which case it may not interfere with it - reasonable enough, since if Ireland wanted to actually oppose it, then she should not have abstained. That represents no change on the current position.

    Once a foreign policy has been agreed, it is possible for the Council, again by unanimity, to decide that implementation decisions for that specific policy will be taken by QMV rather than unanimity.

    The role of the "High Representative" is to carry out the agreed implementation.

    Without Irish agreement, there can be no common foreign policy position. People are welcome to say that they don't believe that the Irish government would use their veto, but that's rather a matter of who you vote for at a general election.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #10
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I want to collect 1,000,000 signatures :D so much fun and democratic. Either that or I will go up for election which ever is easier.


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    #11
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    Mayoegian wrote: »
    I meant hypothetically;)......:cool: If I did have a vote it would be NO!
    Glad to see you havent been manipulated by greedy politicians-well done;)

    Or maybe just listen to all these people calling for a Yes vote...
    meglome wrote: »
    Alliance for Europe
    American Chamber of Commerce
    Barnado's
    Concern(NGO)
    Construction Industry Federation (CIF)
    Consumer Electronic Distributors Association (CEDA)
    Cork Chamber of Commerce
    Cork City Business Association
    Dublin Chamber of Commerce
    Dublin City Business Association
    Engineers Ireland
    Fashion & Footwear Federation
    Financial Services Ireland
    Fine Gael
    Galway City Business Association
    IBEC
    ICMSA
    ICT Ireland
    ICTU
    INO
    Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland
    Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers
    Irish Banking Federation
    Irish Congress of Trade Unions
    Irish Consultative Committee of Accountancy Bodies
    Irish Dairy Industry Association (IDIA)
    Irish Exporters Association (IEA)
    Irish Farmers Association
    Irish Fish Producers’ Organisation
    Irish Franchise Association
    Irish Hardware & Building Materials Association
    Irish Hotels Federation (IHF)
    Irish Medical Devices Association (IMDA)
    Irish Sheep and Cattle Farmers Association
    Irish Software Association (ISA)
    Irish Taxation Institute
    Irish Tourist Industry Confederation (ITIC)
    Irish Travel Agents Association (ITAA)
    Killybegs Fishermen’s Organisation
    Labour
    Limerick Chamber of Commerce
    Limerick City Business Association
    Network Dublin
    North Dublin Chamber of Commerce
    Pharmachemical Ireland
    Progressive Democrats
    Retail Ireland
    SIPTU
    Small Firms Association (SFA)
    Society of Irish Motor Industry (SIMI)
    South Dublin Chamber
    Telecoms and Internet Federation (TIF)
    Trocaire
    Waterford Chamber of Commerce


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mayoegian wrote: »

    VOTE NO AND DON'T BE BULLIED

    Ironic font size is ironic.


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    #13
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Progressive Democrats

    Wonder if I would get a 1,000,000 signatures from them, perhaps they would be interest in me becoming a PD candidate.


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    #14
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    marco_polo wrote: »
    The large bold font has convinced me to vote no anyway. Out of curiosity how did you get a vote at 16 BTW. ;)

    Maybe her sister will cast her vote for her ;)


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    #15
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Mayoegian wrote: »
    ...nobody, and i mean NOBODY is going to tell ME how to vote.

    VOTE NO...
    Nobody is going to tell you how to vote, but you're going to tell others how to vote?

    How does that work, exactly?


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    #16
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Nobody is going to tell you how to vote, but you're going to tell others how to vote?

    How does that work, exactly?

    Treads that go off topic and amount to name calling, I love the Lisbon Treaty. If you can't disagree with it you should at least be happy to say so, even if no one really cares.


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    #17
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    At this point I'm going to follow the OP's advice.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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