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Please advise on this build.

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  • 24-02-2009 10:13pm
    #1
    FunkadelicNess
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭


    Hi, I badly need a new PC (my latest PC died a few days ago and there's nothing worth salvaging from it). I was hoping to build a new (relatively future-proofed) gaming PC for under 1k with a view to playing games like Bioshock, Fallout 3, TF2, L4D etc. on high spec.

    I've configured a PC on hardwareversand.de (below) that runs a little over 1k but seems good to me. However, as I've never built a PC before I was hoping you fine folks could enlighten me on the matter and tell me if this is a good deal. Also, I want to stay well clear of Vista and stick with XP! :)

    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Tray 6144Kb, LGA775, 64bit €151.66
     ASUS Striker II NSE, Sockel 775 nForce790i SLI, ATX €241.33
     Coolermaster Hyper 212, alle Sockel €25.33
     2048MB-KIT OCZ PC3-10666 ReaperX HPC Enhanced Bandwidth, CL6 €86.69
     Revoltec Sixty 1 Black, ATX, without PSU €36.75
     Cooler Master Silent Pro Series – 600 Watt €82.98
     XFX GF 9800GT 670M 512MB DDR3 DUAL DVI, PCI-Express €110.14
     Samsung HD753LJ 750GB S-ATA II, 32MB Cache €69.84
     Samsung SH-D163B SATA Bulk Black €12.44
     Samsung SH-223Q bare Black lightscribe €23.27
     Hanns-G HQ191DP, 19”, DVI, 5ms €104.72
     Logitech Keyboard Deluxe 250 Black PS/2 (OEM) €7.01
     Logitech MX518 Gaming-Grade Optical refresh €29.87
     MS Windows XP Home SB Engl. €80.20
     PC Assembly €19.99
     Total €1,082.12

    Any advice or tweaks would really be appreciated. I suppose my main concern from this spec would be the motherboard. I could get another mobo for €140 cheaper but it only supports DDR2. Is the extra €140 worth it so that I can use DDR3 RAM in the PC?

    Cheers!


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    #2
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Mobo cost seems disproportionately high, while graphics seem just a bit weak.

    That mobo just isn't worth the money so you can have DDR3. If you want DDR3 go for a decent AM3 or the cheapest possible LGA1366 setup, the platforms are far more up-to-date and futureproof and can take more advantage of the DDR3.

    If you want futureproofing you could get a more up-to-date CPU: an AMD Phenom 2 X3 720BE costs €135.60 on HWVS (no black edition quad for AM3 yet sadly). By contrast the i7-920 costs €270+ and usually €190+ for a motherboard, plus while very powerful its not necessarily the best bang-for-buck for gaming unless heavily OCd.

    EDIT: Thanks HWVS, for effing up your checkout page. And especially the new Windows 7 Paint. You managed to eff this one up more than XP Paint!
    In future I'm going back to text entry. Tedious is better than agonising. :mad:


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    #3
    FunkadelicNess
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭FunkadelicNess


    Thanks for the reply. I don't really know if I 'want' DDR3 because I'm fairly ignorant on this matter (as I'm sure you can tell! :)). The reason I chose that mobo is because it was the cheapest DDR3 mobo that supported SLI that I could find (therefore I could add another gfx card in a few years if need be)...but would it be folly to just get a DDR2 mobo instead of DDR3 or what? It would free up some cash to spend on gfx and maybe monitor at least.

    Could you suggest another gfx card for <€160? LGA1366 does seem a bit steep so I'd rather stick with LGA775 or perhaps the AM3 you suggested. If I went for the AMD Phenom 2 x3 720, what mobo would you suggest? Also, forgot to mention that I'm not intending to OC the PC. If it's not a stupid move I might just go for DDR2 mobo and get better gfx and monitor possibly with surplus cash...

    Cheers!


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    #4
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    I'd stick with DDR2, DDR3 just isn't worth the extra cost at the moment


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    #5
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    Is it me or is HWVS not very compelling price-wise ATM? Only the CPU seems to be particularly cheap... although the HD4870 1GB is pretty decent value.

    Funk, is there a particular reason for SLi? CF is pretty good right now, but it does vary (as does SLi). That Asus motherboard was limiting you to SLi but I doubt you'll be needing said mobo (stick to DDR2 with LGA775) HD4850 or 9800GTX+ seem like your best bet for CF/SLi. HD4870 might be nice if you do decide to go for a 22" monitor but they're at least €170 a pop and need a bit more juice.

    And there isn't that big a price margin for DDR3 right now, but that first module you suggested... well, let's just say that its value-for-money could only be described with expletives :o A million better deals anywhere... you should be looking at 3-4GB either way.

    I doubt you'd need much more than stock cooling if you don't intend to OC. Some decent 120mm fans for the case wouldn't go amiss though.


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    #6
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Agreed,you have totally disproportionate spreading of cost there. Here's a better example of how it might be used for 1K including delivery. 24" Monitor, faster video card, 4GB Ram, whilst still leaving you with room to add a second card later and so on. It's an example, just to give you a better idea.

    1k-1.jpg


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    #7
    FunkadelicNess
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭FunkadelicNess


    Hey thanks for the advice. Based on your respective replies I've configured a new PC on HWVS:

    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Tray 6144Kb, LGA775, 64bit €151.66
    MSI P7N SLI-FI Sockel 775 nForce750i SLI, ATX     €105.41
    4096MB-KIT OCZ DDR2 PC2-6400 Reaper, CL4 €56.80
     Antex Three Hundred, ATX, without PSU €54.56
     Cooler Master Silent Pro Series – 600 Watt €82.98
    EVGA e-Geforce     9800GTX+ 512MB, PCI-Express €153.70
     Samsung HD753LJ 750GB S-ATA II, 32MB Cache €69.84
     Samsung SH-D163B SATA Bulk Black €12.44
     Samsung SH-223Q bare Black lightscribe €23.27
     Samsung SyncMaster 2243NW, 22" (1680X1050, 8000:1) €147.79
     Logitech Keyboard Deluxe 250 Black PS/2 (OEM) €7.01
     Logitech MX518 Gaming-Grade Optical refresh €29.87
     MS Windows XP Home SB Engl. €80.20
     PC Assembly €19.99
    Total €995.52 (not including delivery)

    I think this is a lot better than the previous spec. Again I've picked SLI mobo...I'm really outta my depth here with mobos but if the mobo doesn't strictly specify SLI and just says it has 2xPCI-Ex or whatever, does that mean it's compatible with both SLI and CF?
    Also, you guys suggest 3/4GB RAM - can XP utilise 4GB?

    Danke.


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    #8
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    It's much improved. Some points:
    • For that price, consider a Corsair 550 or 650w PSU. You won't get a more quiet, stable and efficient psu in that price range really.
    • Consider replacing the 9800GTX for a 4850, same price and generally a bit better in terms of performance and feature set. 9800GTX is still a good card though, especially at that resolution, so it's not a big deal especially not if you plan keeping a Sli mobo.
    • A Sli mobo will only run dual Nvidia cards, non-Sli mobo's with dual pci-e slots will support crossfire. To save money you could consider an older 650i board, or failing that, even a normal single lane board. You could also get the 4850 as above and buy a board capable for crossfire for the same money - you don't have to restrict yourself to Nvidia. Keep in mind that not all games either support or fully utilize dual cards, whereas compatibility is 100% guaranteed with a strong single card. I wouldn't make the potential to run dual cards a necessary point of any new build basically.
    • 4Gb of ram is fine, XP won't see it all under 32-bit but having 3GB usable in dual channel vs mis-matched 3GB is better for example.


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    #9
    FunkadelicNess
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭FunkadelicNess


    Cool, the Cooler Master Silent Pro 600W sounded nice and quiet to me but I'm making this up as I go along :o, I'll go for the Corsair 650W @ €89 so!

    I read somewhere that the Radeon HDs can overheat without sufficient cooling and that's why I'm slighlty in favour of going with nVidia (esp since I'm going with stock cooling). Is this true of HD4850? Also, does it matter which producer I choose (Asus/Evga/MIS/XFX/PoV etc)?

    Does the MSI P45 Neo2-FR mobo support both Sli and CF?
    http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=22291&agid=659&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.mainboard.mainboard.0%3D22291%3A2001&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&pcConfigurator.catid=1&pcConfigurator.maid=0

    Would it be better to go with one of these two:
    PoV 9800GTX+ 1GB: http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=25102&agid=707&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.vga.vga.0%3D25102%3A3007&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&rp=0&pcConfigurator.catid=6&pcConfigurator.maid=0
    MSI 9800GTX+ 1GB: http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=25068&agid=707&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.vga.vga.0%3D25068%3A3007&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&rp=0&pcConfigurator.catid=6&pcConfigurator.maid=0
    rather than the EVGA 512mb?

    It would appear that the HD4850 1GB is €3 cheaper than the HD4850 512Mb, what is that about?
    1GB:http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=22733&agid=1004&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.vga.vga.0%3D22733%3A3007&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&pcConfigurator.catid=6&pcConfigurator.maid=0&rp=0
    512Mb:http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=22736&agid=717&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.vga.vga.0%3D22736%3A3007&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&pcConfigurator.catid=6&pcConfigurator.maid=0&rp=0

    Sorry for the string of questions but this mobo/gfx card debacle is the only thing standing in my way to gaming-heaven!


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    #10
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    I'd say do whatever terrorfirmer says, he's my... number one guy! I just can't imagine him being wrong on anything to do with building/upgrading.

    *removes tongue from hole


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    #11
    FunkadelicNess
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭FunkadelicNess


    Yeah I know but it's not that I disagree with him (you need to know something about the matter before you can disagree!) I just need some clarification on a few points about the mobo.

    You just posted so you could say "he's my... number one guy!", am I right? If I could give you two thumbs up I would but these smilies just wont cut it...so here: :cool:


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    #12
    Call Me Jimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,449 ✭✭✭Call Me Jimmy


    Well there is a thumbs up button to your left there... but save em for terror!

    PS: The main motivation for actually posting WAS to say that he was my... number one guy. :cool:


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    #13
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    I'm only trying to toss out the most reliable, fool-proof info. There is no right and wrong, really, but just whats best in general might not be best for any given person...

    The cooler Master I'm sure is a fine PSU, I've owned a few and never had any problems, and they receive good reviews overall - but you really just can't beat Corsairs range of PSU's in the sub 100 bracket.

    I had a 4870 1GB Crammed into a small matx case with no extra fans installed, never once had any cooling or overheating issues at all. They can run hot, but there's a world of difference between running hot (as in, the card is literally extremely hot), and to actually be overheating (as in, the computer locks up, displays artifacts, freezes, etc). Most of the issues were from fan speed being speed quite low - something you can manually adjust with ease with any number of programs.

    That mobo is crossfire, but obviously you can use a single Nvidia card in it without issues, and a secondary card to do other tasks - but you can't run Sli, no. It can be done in theory as HP have done it with their Blackbird but it's not readily available software and it is available in the X58 but you're then talking crazy money that's eat hugely into your mobo/ram/cpu budget leaving you nothing for other components. You can read more here.

    If you're going for the 9800GTX+ the 1GB vs 512mb isn't a big deal as the card isn't really fast enough to make good use of the 1gb (at least, definitely not in terms of bang per buck, it will make some difference but its also about cost:performance) whereas a 1gb 4850 is a good improvement over the 512mb model. Overall at 1680x1050 a 512mb 4850 or 512mb 9800GTX+ is perfectly good.


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    #14
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    FunkadelicNess wrote: »
    I read somewhere that the Radeon HDs can overheat without sufficient cooling and that's why I'm slighlty in favour of going with nVidia (esp since I'm going with stock cooling). Is this true of HD4850? Also, does it matter which producer I choose (Asus/Evga/MIS/XFX/PoV etc)?

    All graphics cards can overheat without sufficient cooling. This is why the manufactures ship them with sufficient cooling out of the box. The company that supplies it doesn't really matter in most cases. I really wouldn't worry about it.
    FunkadelicNess wrote: »
    Does the MSI P45 Neo2-FR mobo support both Sli and CF?
    http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=22291&agid=659&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.mainboard.mainboard.0%3D22291%3A2001&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&pcConfigurator.catid=1&pcConfigurator.maid=0

    Just crossfire.

    FunkadelicNess wrote: »
    Would it be better to go with one of these two:
    PoV 9800GTX+ 1GB: http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=25102&agid=707&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.vga.vga.0%3D25102%3A3007&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&rp=0&pcConfigurator.catid=6&pcConfigurator.maid=0
    MSI 9800GTX+ 1GB: http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=25068&agid=707&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.vga.vga.0%3D25068%3A3007&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&rp=0&pcConfigurator.catid=6&pcConfigurator.maid=0
    rather than the EVGA 512mb?

    At the resolution you'd be playing at 1GB would probably not be much better over 512MB

    FunkadelicNess wrote: »
    It would appear that the HD4850 1GB is €3 cheaper than the HD4850 512Mb, what is that about?
    1GB:http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=22733&agid=1004&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.vga.vga.0%3D22733%3A3007&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&pcConfigurator.catid=6&pcConfigurator.maid=0&rp=0
    512Mb:http://www4.hardwareversand.de/4VAG6gSQhLXa4M/articledetail.jsp?aid=22736&agid=717&pcconfAddUri=pcconfigurator.jsp%3FpcConfigurator.vga.vga.0%3D22736%3A3007&pcconfBackUri=pcconfselect.jsp?search.sKey=&pcConfigurator.catid=6&pcConfigurator.maid=0&rp=0

    Sorry for the string of questions but this mobo/gfx card debacle is the only thing standing in my way to gaming-heaven!

    They seem exactly the same bar the memory so I'd go with the 1GB card. It must be a misprice or something.

    edit: You bet me to it, TF.


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    #15
    Solitaire
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 18,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭Solitaire


    I read somewhere that the Radeon HDs can overheat without sufficient cooling and that's why I'm slighlty in favour of going with nVidia

    True but not a very widespread problem, especially since OEMs are sensitive to said criticism and most now use improved non-reference coolers on their cards. Keep an eye out for HD4850 models with an enclosed dual-slot cooler, or cheap HD4870s (none at HWVS at the moment); like reference-style 9800GTX+ their enclosures vent hot air out of the case; early HD4850s and many later 9800GTX don't vent hot air so even with good coolers attached to them heat pooling can be an issue if the case hasn't got good ventilation down there.
    Does the MSI P45 Neo2-FR mobo support both Sli and CF?

    Intel, so only CF. A few premium LGA771/1366 mobos support both, but that's well out of your price range. Intel LGA775 and all AMD-based AMD mobos only support CrossFire, you need nVidia cards plus an nVidia mobo for SLi. A CF setup is usually marginally cheaper.
    Would it be better to go with one of these two...

    I don't think the extra memory helps much as at the resolutions where the additonal framebuffer really helps performance the HD4850 and 9800GTX+ GPUs start to choke. And running that level of frame buffering with a 32bit OS will really rip chunks out of your system RAM (they can only address 4GB TOTAL memory including CPU caches, so 1GB frame buffer = 2.75GB system RAM).

    Shame HWVS lacks cheap HD4870 512MB...
    It would appear that the HD4850 1GB is €3 cheaper than the HD4850 512Mb, what is that about?

    Sometimes happens with websites, no big deal (other than the fact 1GB+ cards are better paired with very high resolutions and 64bit OS) Both models shown are manufacturer-OCd.

    EDIT: You both beat me to it. Forgot to refresh the screen after I dealt with the distractions at this end *doh*
    TerrorFirmer wrote:
    It can be done in theory as HP have done it with their Blackbird but it's not readily available software and it is available in the X58
    Some high-end X58s only (some X58s are more equal than others :)). And IIRC Blackbird was actually Crossfire'd 2900XTs on an nForce mobo, not the other way around :P


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    #16
    FunkadelicNess
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭FunkadelicNess


    Cheers for all the info lads. Think I'm gonna go with this final spec:

    Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Tray 6144Kb, LGA775, 64bit €151.66
    MSI P45 Neo2-FR, Intel P45, ATX     €111.17
    Coolermaster Hyper 212, all Sockets €25.33
    4096MB-KIT OCZ DDR2 PC2-6400 Reaper, CL4 €56.80
     Antex Three Hundred, ATX, without PSU €54.56
     Corsair VX550W €75.68
    Powercolor HD4850 Play Edition 512MB, GDDR3, PCI-Ex     €140.05
     Samsung HD753LJ 750GB S-ATA II, 32MB Cache €69.84
     Samsung SH-D163B SATA Bulk Black €12.44
     Samsung SH-223Q bare Black lightscribe €23.27
     Samsung SyncMaster 2243NW, 22" (1680X1050, 8000:1) €147.79
     Logitech Keyboard Deluxe 250 Black PS/2 (OEM) €7.01
     Logitech MX518 Gaming-Grade Optical refresh €29.87
     MS Windows XP Home SB Engl. €80.20
     PC Assembly €19.99
    Total €1,005.66 (not including delivery)

    The PC-Configurator wouldn't let me not pick CPU fans so picked the Coolermaster Hyper 212 (qty 2). Thought if I didn't select one they'd just put in stock fans. Went for relatively cheap HD4850 512MB - if you think the HD4850 1GB @ €163+ would be worth the extra cash let me know!

    Anyway, will order it in the next day or two. If I'm leaving out something or doing something stupid with this spec please tell me!

    Appreciate all the help!


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