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FreeView TV's in M&S

Comments

  • #2
    petronius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    It Needs to be MPEG-4 for the anticipated RTE DTT (launched next year) the UK freeview format is MPEG-2

    If you can get Digital TV via an aerial from Divis in Belfast or from wales perhaps you can get freeview(in mpeg2 format)


  • #3
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,129 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Moved to Terrestrial forum


  • #4
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    dp639 wrote: »
    Hi,
    Was thinking of getting one of these from M&S for the kitchen. Its comes with FreeView built in, will this work in here in Ireland? shop assistant said probably not.

    I've got an existing Sky dish in place and a Sky Box in the kitchen, would be nice to replace the Sky Box and TV with this 1 unit.

    http://www.marksandspencer.com/gp/product/B001CEO9LO/sr=1-6/qid=1226922311/ref=sr_1_6/279-5091644-2756864?ie=UTF8&node=79404031&m=A2BO0OYVBKIQJM&keywords=&mnSBrand=core&size=9&rh=&page=#productDetails

    Thanks

    Tell me they arent selling these in the Irish Marks and Spencer shops.

    I actually went to the bother of suggesting to Maplin to remove a similar Freeview branded STB in Parnell St so that they wouldnt be head wrecking themselves and the consumer. I mean its not as if the Dept of Communications hasnt got a letter to the retailers on their website.


  • #5
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    will this work in here in Ireland? shop assistant said probably not.

    LMAO! What kind of a shop management will stock something for sale that doesn't work in this country ????

    I know there are some smaller annoying issues with the UK chain stores that operate here (e.g. the annoying BT adapter for phones, etc) but stocking / trying to sell something that doesn't work ???? FFS!


  • #6
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    Did you click on the link? It's a TV, not an STB. I agree shops shouldn't see MPEG2 STBs here in the Republic, but practically every TV for sale now has an MPEG2 digital tuner built in.


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  • #7
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    It doesnt make it right. Members of CEDA have been written to by DCENR.

    http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/Useful+Information.htm

    It doesnt matter whether its a STB box or a TV. The fact that it is a TV with "Freeview"TM means that it wont work in this country and as such should not be offered for sale without adequate warnings. Otherwise you might as well buy an LCD with no digital tuner in it. Digital Tuner being the key term here.

    Anyhow if it is being sold its only as a result of UK stock making its way into the Irish market due to warehousing. I am sure M&S do not wish to mislead their customers and would like to maintain a bit of brand loyalty.

    Perhaps someone should let them know.


  • #8
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,659 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    STB wrote: »
    I actually went to the bother of suggesting to Maplin to remove a similar Freeview branded STB in Parnell St so that they wouldnt be head wrecking themselves and the consumer. I mean its not as if the Dept of Communications hasnt got a letter to the retailers on their website.

    The Information note is from The Consumer Electrical Distributors Association, CEDA to retailers.
    As it is not illegal to sell MPEG2 products in Ireland, are any of these retailers advertising these products for Irish DTT?
    The only retailer I know of that is advertising TVs for Irish DTT is Powercity.


  • #9
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    STB wrote: »
    It doesnt make it right. Members of CEDA have been written to by DCENR.

    http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/Useful+Information.htm

    It doesnt matter whether its a STB box or a TV. The fact that it is a TV with "Freeview"TM means that it wont work in this country and as such should not be offered for sale without adequate warnings. Otherwise you might as well buy an LCD with no digital tuner in it. Digital Tuner being the key term here.

    Ah, that's different from not selling them though, which was the jist of the other poster's response:
    LMAO! What kind of a shop management will stock something for sale that doesn't work in this country ????

    STB boxes that are MPEG2 should imo not be sold here, period, as they serve no other function other than to receive MPEG2 broadcasts. TVs in Ireland for the most part are hooked up to Sky boxes, cable boxes and game consoles. No reason why MPEG2 TVs should not be sold here, as long as the consumer knows (is made aware of) the fact that the digital tuner won't work here in most cases.


  • #10
    sesswhat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    It might help if the Irish DTT service was actually given a name to stop people confusing it with Freeview. Although there are thousands of potential users for Freeview in ROI, obviously the Freeview products on sale here now will not be compatible with Irish DTT.

    However some people will assume that a digital TV is a digital TV but then find they have to supplement it with another box or device when the service starts.

    I suppose the products do exactly what they say on the tin. If you get a Freeview signal you can watch Freeview channels. The same can be said in the UK itself, where many thousands can't get Freeview signals. I have found that on the boxes of most of these products, you are urged to find out about the availability of Freeview in your area.

    There comes a point where the customer has to take some responsibility to do their own research, just as the OP has done by coming here. If one of the criteria influencing my purchase of a product was Freeview, I'd make it my business to find out all about it first.


  • #11
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Of course it is not illegal. Immoral, probably but some people would sell their own granny. It doesnt make it right.

    I think we all know that when it comes down to being sold a product that quite obviously WONT work here (given that the spec is freely available since the start of the year) that in the event that you do find yourself in this situation your only avenue for complaint will be through the Comsumers Association.

    If you sell an IDTV with a digital Tuner you MUST say what it can and cant do. Branded Freeview boxes are a NO NO here. They are for the UK DTT system. So what if they will work in cross border regions. That is no excuse for selling them in the first instance.

    My personal view is anyone condoning the sale of MPEG2 TVs in 2008 is either working for someone with an exterior motive or has money to burn themselves. Not everyone can or wishes to subscribe to Sky/NTL/Chorus/put a satelite dish up.

    Some simply want FTA. And this should be the basic requirement for any TV in this age of Digital Terrestrial Television

    There is nowhere to hide. It is simple. And it should be that way for Joe Public. The retailers need to stock suitable products and stop selling UK stock. Remember it is only a few months to DTT launch! If you were buying a TV now surely you would expect it still work in 5 months time!!!!!!!!
    STB - An extract taken from digitaltelevision.ie wrote:

    Information to Retailers

    DTT Receivers

    A minimum specification for DTT receivers for the Irish Market has been developed and is available for download here.


    Receivers on the Irish market will use the MPEG 4 compression standard which is being used in Estonia, Denmark, France, Hungary, Lithuania, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, New Zealand and South Africa. More details are available from http://www.dvb.org/. This is different to the MPEG 2 compression standard used in the UK. Retailers should note that televisions with MPEG 2 tuners only, will not pick up the Irish DTT service when it develops.

    The Consumer Electrical Distributors Association, CEDA, has issued the following information notes 1 and 2 to retailers.

    Retailers are requested to ensure that iDTV’s on sale in Ireland will be compatible with the Irish DTT network, when it launches. In the meantime, it is vital that retailers ensure that customers are given accurate information about televisions currently for sale. Retailers are also urged to ensure that a sufficient range of receivers (including set top boxes, integrated digital televisions and personal video recorders) specified for use on the Irish DTT network are available to consumers for the launch of DTT services in Ireland.


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  • #12
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    STB wrote: »
    Tell me they arent selling these in the Irish Marks and Spencer shops.

    I actually went to the bother of suggesting to Maplin to remove a similar Freeview branded STB in Parnell St so that they wouldnt be head wrecking themselves and the consumer. I mean its not as if the Dept of Communications hasnt got a letter to the retailers on their website.

    Maplin also consistently sell 5.8Ghz Video Links etc. Only 2.4Ghz is allowed for Analogue Video Senders in Ireland. In Ireland the CE 5.xGHz band is only allowed for 802.11 WiFi gear.

    B&Q were selling MPEG2 only DTT setboxes a few weeks ago.

    Homebase and Maplin were selling DAB long before RTE trial started!


  • #13
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    STB wrote: »
    Of course it is not illegal. Immoral, probably but some people would sell their own granny. It doesnt make it right.

    I think we all know that when it comes down to being sold a product that quite obviously WONT work here (given that the spec is freely available since the start of the year) that in the event that you do find yourself in this situation your only avenue for complaint will be through the Comsumers Association.

    If you sell an IDTV with a digital Tuner you MUST say what it can and cant do. Branded Freeview boxes are a NO NO here. They are for the UK DTT system. So what if they will work in cross border regions. That is no excuse for selling them in the first instance.

    My personal view is anyone condoning the sale of MPEG2 TVs in 2008 is either working for someone with an exterior motive or has money to burn themselves. Not everyone can or wishes to subscribe to Sky/NTL/Chorus/put a satelite dish up.

    Some simply want FTA. And this should be the basic requirement for any TV in this age of Digital Terrestrial Television

    There is nowhere to hide. It is simple. And it should be that way for Joe Public. The retailers need to stock suitable products and stop selling UK stock. Remember it is only a few months to DTT launch! If you were buying a TV now surely you would expect it still work in 5 months time!!!!!!!!

    Yes, retailers do need to stock up on MPEG4 compatible products, but cutting out the MPEG2 sets will remove a lot of choice for the consumer who has no interest in using the set for FTA. I'd wager that the MPEG4 sets are also more expensive.

    I can't remember the last time I saw someone receiving the 4 Irish channels on UHF, and not using any other box for the UK channels. Our FTA will still only be 4 TV channels, so while it might have technology coming out its ass, it's still a big white elephant for the vast majority of people, as you'll still need another box and dish/antenna to get FTA UK channels, or pay a sub for the package with the UK channels (meaning a box anyway). So why cut out the choice of buying an MPEG2 based TV when at least 9 out of 10 people will simply be sticking it on AV1 and watching their TV via a box of some sort?

    To suggest selling MPEG2 televisions in Ireland is immoral is completely over the top. Selling someone an MPEG4 equipped receiver (for more money) when they simply don't need one could be considered such though. Should we get shops to stop selling standard DVD players because they are out-of-date and can't play Blu-ray discs, even though consumers might only want standard DVD players?

    By the way, why should UK companies like M&S etc. stock up on TVs specific to Ireland when the system isn't even launched yet? Regardless of how many letters and emails are sent to retailers, I'm sure when the time comes i.e. when the DTT system actually officially launches here, there's be plenty of MPEG4 TVs to keep the minority of people who want only RTE/TV3 and TG4 happy.


  • #14
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Paulo,

    Your not a Sky installer by any chance ?

    First thing you have to get into your head is this. Mpeg4 TVs are NOT any dearer than MPEG2 TV's. They are in fact in and around the same price. That there is a mass quantities of MPEG2 TVs due to our nearest neighbour using this technology doesn’t make it alright to make Ireland a dumping ground of convenience for incompatible TVs. There is no reason for this other than selling UK stock to make a fast/convenient buck.

    I am aware of plenty of people that have FTA set ups ie FTA analogue or indeed DTT and Freesat/FTA Sat Box.

    Don’t presume that its alright for people to buy TV's only to have to subscribe to Sky/NTL/Chorus in order to watch X number of channels.

    That is not the decision for the retailer to make but that of the consumer and products should not be offered on that basis. An IDTV having one digital tuner being sold in 2008 with MPEG2 technology is NOT okay because the person will "probably" subscribe to Sky/NTL. That does not wash with me, nor would it with the consumers association. IDTVs should have a life span of more than 1 year. So to answer your statement. So YES it is immoral to sell a product that doesn’t work now and most certainly wont work in a few months time. Ordinary everyday people don’t understand the jargon but don’t like being taken for mugs.

    Believe it or not I would imagine we will have a lot of people moving to the FTA scenario of a combo sat/dtt box as they realise what they can receive for free. People do become more economical during a recession.

    Why should retailers stock up on MPEG4 TVs? To sell them. To have the latest products available (or at least make an attempt), much like any business. Certainly not to try an mug the customer. The people who watch TV are required to have a TV licence, that they couldn’t receive these FTA stations as a result of the WRONG products being sold would be a little Oirish now wouldn’t it.

    DTT is available to a LARGE number of homes already. So it does exist. The complete roll out with everything in place isn’t likely until next year.

    There are plenty of products available if you read the other threads on this site, but they are mainly from the French manufacturers and retailers, who have their stuff together, and legally cant pull the wool over the consumers eyes. Compare Phillips ie site with the French site. Likewise with Sony. We are still lumped in with the UK, even though our technology is similar to that of France. And that is not good enough. Little if any movement has been made by the big guys to actually stock different products to those that are being shipped over from the UK.

    The scary part is that in my experience most people working in these shops don’t even know what MPEG4 is


  • #15
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    STB wrote: »
    Paulo,

    Your not a Sky installer by any chance ?

    First thing you have to get into your head is this. Mpeg4 TVs are NOT any dearer than MPEG2 TV's. They are in fact in and around the same price. That there is a mass quantities of MPEG2 TVs due to our nearest neighbour using this technology doesn’t make it alright to make Ireland a dumping ground of convenience for incompatible TVs. There is no reason for this other than selling UK stock to make a fast/convenient buck.

    I am aware of plenty of people that have FTA set ups ie FTA analogue or indeed DTT and Freesat/FTA Sat Box.

    Don’t presume that its alright for people to buy TV's only to have to subscribe to Sky/NTL/Chorus in order to watch X number of channels.

    That is not the decision for the retailer to make but that of the consumer and products should not be offered on that basis. An IDTV having one digital tuner being sold in 2008 with MPEG2 technology is NOT okay because the person will "probably" subscribe to Sky/NTL. That does not wash with me, nor would it with the consumers association. IDTVs should have a life span of more than 1 year. So to answer your statement. So YES it is immoral to sell a product that doesn’t work now and most certainly wont work in a few months time. Ordinary everyday people don’t understand the jargon but don’t like being taken for mugs.

    Believe it or not I would imagine we will have a lot of people moving to the FTA scenario of a combo sat/dtt box as they realise what they can receive for free. People do become more economical during a recession.

    Why should retailers stock up on MPEG4 TVs? To sell them. To have the latest products available (or at least make an attempt), much like any business. Certainly not to try an mug the customer. The people who watch TV are required to have a TV licence, that they couldn’t receive these FTA stations as a result of the WRONG products being sold would be a little Oirish now wouldn’t it.

    DTT is available to a LARGE number of homes already. So it does exist. The complete roll out with everything in place isn’t likely until next year.

    There are plenty of products available if you read the other threads on this site, but they are mainly from the French manufacturers and retailers, who have their stuff together, and legally cant pull the wool over the consumers eyes. Compare Phillips ie site with the French site. Likewise with Sony. We are still lumped in with the UK, even though our technology is similar to that of France. And that is not good enough. Little if any movement has been made by the big guys to actually stock different products to those that are being shipped over from the UK.

    The scary part is that in my experience most people working in these shops don’t even know what MPEG4 is

    No, I don't install Sky, nor do I have any business interest in any television related products.

    You are missing my point. I am not saying retailers shouldn't stock up on MPEG4 televisions. The more choice the consumer has, the better as far as I'm concerned. My point is simply that I see nothing wrong with selling MPEG2 televisions (not settop boxes) as they are typically used with other receivers anyway - once the consumer is informed about the limitations of such.

    I think anyone on here is kidding themselves if they would refuse the opportunity to sell pallets of MPEG2 televisions because they believe it to be "immoral".

    MPEG2 STBs are a different story as they don't do anything other than receive MPEG2 transmissions. They shouldn't be sold here.

    DTT might well be available (I have the trial box so I know it's available), however until it officially launches I can certainly see the business case for some stores deciding to hold off stocking MPEG4 televisions. The cost of having to stock a whole lot of new televisions, specific to Ireland (already a small market), in the middle of a recession, for a DTT system that's not even officially launched, might just be too big to bear for UK retailers here. I fully understand that, and if they feel the need to supply MPEG2 televisions, I've no issue with that once the consumer knows the score.

    As a consumer you have a choice - feel free to shop elsewhere if you have an issue with UK stores here. As with any technology purchase though, consumers should equip themselves with information before parting with money.


  • #16
    sesswhat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    STB wrote: »
    There are plenty of products available if you read the other threads on this site, but they are mainly from the French manufacturers and retailers, who have their stuff together, and legally cant pull the wool over the consumers eyes.

    So what are the alternative 19" LCDs that will 'work' for the OP, even without the inbuilt DVD player?


  • #17
    dp639
    Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭dp639


    sesswhat wrote: »
    So what are the alternative 19" LCDs that will 'work' for the OP, even without the inbuilt DVD player?

    I was getting myself confused with the Free Sat boxes you can buy to work from your sateillite dish, thought this was a TV with the Free Sat built in. So at the end of the day, I'd like a 19" LCD with built in DVD player. What else should I ensure I get with regard to future FreeView capabilities for here in Ireland, don't want to buy something that is out of date in a few months.


  • #18
    sesswhat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭sesswhat


    dp639 wrote: »
    I was getting myself confused with the Free Sat boxes you can buy to work from your sateillite dish, thought this was a TV with the Free Sat built in. So at the end of the day, I'd like a 19" LCD with built in DVD player. What else should I ensure I get with regard to future FreeView capabilities for here in Ireland, don't want to buy something that is out of date in a few months.

    I may be proved wrong, but I don't know if you can buy a future-proof 19" as I don't know of any available to Irish DTT specifications. If not, some form of additional box or equipment will be necessary when the time comes.


  • #19
    PauloMN
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 10,869 Mod ✭✭✭✭PauloMN


    dp639 wrote: »
    I was getting myself confused with the Free Sat boxes you can buy to work from your sateillite dish, thought this was a TV with the Free Sat built in. So at the end of the day, I'd like a 19" LCD with built in DVD player. What else should I ensure I get with regard to future FreeView capabilities for here in Ireland, don't want to buy something that is out of date in a few months.

    Sorry for dragging the thread off-topic earlier OP. :o

    Personally, if you have a Sky dish already, and you would want BBC etc. available on this television as well as RTE etc., I would recommend getting a combination DVB-T and DVB-S box so you can get the DTT stations here (RTE1 & 2, TV3 and TG4) and the UK stations via Freesat.

    If you just want the Irish channels, and no STB, make sure your television has MPEG4 DTT built in. If you're using a separate box, it doesn't matter what tuner the TV has built in. To me anyway. ;)

    I haven't used a combo box, some of the other posters on here have and will be able to tell you the one(s) to go for. Some good info here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055417206


  • #20
    Linku
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭Linku


    My mother just got one of these 19" TV/DVD LCDs in M&S as it was neat and pretty cheap. The aul rabbit ears can't seem to tune in the Irish channels clearly at all, which her old TV picked up perfectly (literally beside RTÉ!), and I noticed when you switch to DTV, the audio but not the picture comes through. Is this a case of the TV being able to decode the audio, but not the picture because it's MPEG4 not MPEG2? Can the 'common interface' slot be used to add MPEG4 compatibility?

    I still can't understand why analogue channels won't come through clearly though :confused:
    We just got a few new TVs for the bedrooms, so if any of them can pick up the Irish DTV, it might be worth putting an aerial on the roof?


  • #21
    TheDriver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,580 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Some tvs have better tuners than others. Reason you don't get picture could very possibly be mpeg2 not able to decompress to mpeg4.
    No 19" tvs have mpeg4 yet afaik but theres a few 32" and bigger popping up, no manufacturer is admitting it yet and some even say their products don't have it when some people report that their work fine.
    If you want mpeg4 etc, your better off waiting!


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  • #22
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Nonsense.

    Firstly, Mpeg 2 cant decompress Mpeg4 on a TV as its hardware issue on most IDTVs! Its the video output that the MPEG2 decoder wont understand as it is a MPEG4 encoded stream, hence you only get the sound.

    You can buy a cam that can transcode Mpeg4 to Mpeg2 however. Its called a Neotion NP4 Cam, BUT it only works in certain types of TVs (and probably not on a 19"). There's a list of what it works with on this forum.

    There ARE plenty of MPEG4 Tvs out there which have been covered in several threads here also.


  • #23
    gearoidc
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭gearoidc


    STB
    You can buy a cam that can transcode Mpeg4 to Mpeg2 however. Its called a Neotion NP4 Cam, BUT it only works in certain types of TVs (and probably not on a 19"). There's a list of what it works with on this forum.

    Can you give a link pls?


  • #24
    gearoidc
    Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭gearoidc


    It's Ok
    Found it


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