Bus Éireann WiFi

grundie · 20-10-2008 11:35am #1

Hi All,

I got to use Bus Eireanns new WiFi service on the Derry - Dublin bus last night. Blimey, it's good. It's free at the moment and I hope it stays that way.

Speed wise it's fast enough for YouTube on main roads and motorways but it crawls to dial-up speeds on rural roads when the bus goes out of 3G coverage.

As someone who makes the Dublin-Derry-Dublin journey every weekend, I think Bus Eireann have given me a reason not to get a motorcycle!

bk · 20-10-2008 2:18pm

This just goes to show how ridiculous that not even Irish Rails premier Cork to Dublin Intercity serive has this or power plugs at every seat.

BE could eat IR for lunch once all the new motorways open and more express services introduced. Much cheaper, roughly the same length of time and now wifi on board. All BE need is toilets on board and IR are finished.

grundie · 20-10-2008 3:01pm

I asked a dirver about toilets. Aparently BE would like to fit them or get them on new busses, but there are ridiculous waste disposal rules and there is no way they could get disposal equipment into Busaras. Sort of makes sense in an odd way.

Davy · 25-10-2008 5:04pm

Didn't a company over to fit the wifi for IR for free? think it was last year, and they stupidly said no.

kaizersoze · 25-10-2008 6:26pm

davton wrote: »

Didn't a company over to fit the wifi for IR for free? think it was last year, and they stupidly said no.

They wanted to fit it for free but charge passengers to use it with little or nothing going to IE iirc.

Davy · 25-10-2008 6:29pm

kaizersoze wrote: »

They wanted to fit it for free but charge passengers to use it with little or nothing going to IE iirc.

Could they not have done some sort of deal, at least the service would be available, IR would never get their

donvito99 · 25-10-2008 7:10pm

WIFI on IR would be sweet.

penexpers · 26-10-2008 12:03pm

Is there a definitive list of services that have Wi-Fi on them or is it just luck of the draw?

BoB_BoT · 26-10-2008 12:40pm

kaizersoze wrote: »

They wanted to fit it for free but charge passengers to use it with little or nothing going to IE iirc.

They weren't going to charge to use it, all they wanted was control of the gateway page, the first page that comes up, they'd generate revenue from advertising on that page.

Davy · 26-10-2008 1:03pm

News Story

The quote below is on IR faq section, seems could be waiting a long time.

Q. Is there Wi-Fi technology onboard IÉ trains so I can access the internet?
A.

Iarnród Éireann (IÉ) feels that it wouldn’t be in the public or the company’s best interest to install the current wireless technologies on its fleet for customer use due to the limited lifespan of said technologies. Anything we install now is likely to be completely redundant within five years.

We feel customers would be better supported by obtaining their own wireless solutions, such as those provided by the mobile providers (3G and GPRS/EDGE ).

IÉ is hoping that near-future new technologies such as WiMax and other long range wireless tech will make the idea of onboard solutions redundant. We will continue to monitor the speed of advance of such technologies and if we deem that change is not occurring quickly enough we may reconsider the situation.

bk · 26-10-2008 1:14pm

davton wrote: »

News Story

The quote below is on IR faq section, seems could be waiting a long time.

This is a stupid excuse and that is all it is, an excuse to do nothing.

Every portable device these days has wifi. From laptops to Nintendo DS and most new mobile phones.

Even though things like 3G and WiMax may become more popular in future, wifi will always be present for backwards compatibly, so it is a completely stupid excuse by IR.

BluntGuy · 26-10-2008 1:29pm

IR's excuse just doesn't cut it for me...

IÉ is hoping that near-future new technologies such as WiMax and other long range wireless tech will make the idea of onboard solutions redundant. We will continue to monitor the speed of advance of such technologies and if we deem that change is not occurring quickly enough we may reconsider the situation.

Basically all they're saying is: "we want somebody else to do it".

IR need to get their act together very quickly. With bus journeys getting shorter and shorter, they will need to offer an attractive alternative to a much cheaper bus journey.

BoB_BoT · 26-10-2008 1:49pm

BluntGuy wrote: »

Basically all they're saying is: "we want somebody else to do it".

But the thing is, somebody else HAS offered to do it, with no cost to IR. It's a stubborn stance of "we're the only train service, sit and swivel, thank you".

Davy · 26-10-2008 2:01pm

Instead it advises passengers to obtain their own wireless solutions through mobile providers.

Mr Kenny said Iarnród Éireann has not put money into Wi-Fi because its priority is investing in more trains.

Surely this would require a tiny % of the money that they invested in trains. A company offers to install and manage the system for them and have it working in 3 months and they declined,,,:eek:

I would agree with Bluntguy, they have some serious problems ahead with competition. The main line in the country Dub-cork has cheaper and faster options like ryanair and bus eireann. Bet ryanair will have internet before IR

Ham'nd'egger · 26-10-2008 2:40pm

BoB_BoT wrote: »

But the thing is, somebody else HAS offered to do it, with no cost to IR. It's a stubborn stance of "we're the only train service, sit and swivel, thank you".

The somebody was a guy called Evert Bopp, who appears on broadcast media from time to time speaking about technology. He trades as Airapps.

As it stands, Irish Rail have to tender out any contracts (such as fitting trains for WIFI) so his free offer wouldn't able to be taken up. On the assumption that it was taken up, I don't know how much cash he would have to spend on fitting WIFI on trains but in France, it is costing €19 million to fit TGV's with WIFI for about 2,000KM of line using satellite reception. Using 3G/GPRS would doubtlessly cost less, as would any new technology to maintain connection but still it would be expensive.

As with many discussions here in relation to Irish Rail and why it doesn't offer some services that other countries have, much of it boils down to passenger numbers that we as a country has to use trains and buses. Airappz seem to feel that selling ads aimed locally on train services will cover it's running costs and make it available free to the train traveller but at current Irish Rail passenger numbers, their work is cut out; in 2007 it carried 45.5 million passengers. Not all of these are on mainline services, not all of them use laptops and not all of them will choose to use free WIFI so there is a real risk that the figures won't add up.

MOH · 28-10-2008 1:56pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

The somebody was a guy called Evert Bopp, who appears on broadcast media from time to time speaking about technology. He trades as Airapps.

As it stands, Irish Rail have to tender out any contracts (such as fitting trains for WIFI) so his free offer wouldn't able to be taken up. On the assumption that it was taken up, I don't know how much cash he would have to spend on fitting WIFI on trains but in France, it is costing €19 million to fit TGV's with WIFI for about 2,000KM of line using satellite reception. Using 3G/GPRS would doubtlessly cost less, as would any new technology to maintain connection but still it would be expensive.

As with many discussions here in relation to Irish Rail and why it doesn't offer some services that other countries have, much of it boils down to passenger numbers that we as a country has to use trains and buses. Airappz seem to feel that selling ads aimed locally on train services will cover it's running costs and make it available free to the train traveller but at current Irish Rail passenger numbers, their work is cut out; in 2007 it carried 45.5 million passengers. Not all of these are on mainline services, not all of them use laptops and not all of them will choose to use free WIFI so there is a real risk that the figures won't add up.

But yet it's worthwhile for Bus Eireann to offer it for free?

Ste.phen · 28-10-2008 3:31pm

By my count the cost of running free wifi on a bus would be about 150 capital cost per bus, plus the rental on the 3G connection, which would probably be discounted if you order enough of them

jhegarty · 28-10-2008 3:36pm

Igy wrote: »

By my count the cost of running free wifi on a bus would be about 150 capital cost per bus, plus the rental on the 3G connection, which would probably be discounted if you order enough of them

if would be far more than that.... 150 for the equipment and 5,000 for a unionised employee to screw it in...

Ham'nd'egger · 28-10-2008 6:08pm

MOH wrote: »

But yet it's worthwhile for Bus Eireann to offer it for free?

Trains run far faster than buses and carries far more passengers than a bus; the hard bit is in trying to maintain the broadband connection to an adequate level and signal strength to maintain coverage while at very high speeds. Certainly it is possible

The Bus Eireann WIFI is an experiment for now on one or two routes to gauge use on and practicality of same.

bk · 29-10-2008 10:35am

Hamndegger wrote: »

Trains run far faster than buses

I really wouldn't be too certain about that. With the interurban motorways, a direct bus could well be faster.

KC61 · 29-10-2008 10:59am

bk wrote: »

I really wouldn't be too certain about that. With the interurban motorways, a direct bus could well be faster.

Trains have standard line speeds of 70-100mph, while coaches can only travel legally at 80km/h (appx. 50mph) and 65 km/h (appx. 40mph) if carrying standing passengers.

You're looking at overall journey times rather than the actual speed that the vehicles are travelling at which is what I suspect Ham'nd'egger was alluding to.

Run_to_da_hills · 29-10-2008 12:01pm

Free WIFI is becoming very popular in public with transport right across the globe. There is a reason for this, IE The authorities can find out where the vehicle is, who is on board and what they are up to.

http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/columns/article.php/3739746

Ham'nd'egger · 29-10-2008 12:37pm

KC61 wrote: »

Trains have standard line speeds of 70-100mph, while coaches can only travel legally at 80km/h (appx. 50mph) and 65 km/h (appx. 40mph) if carrying standing passengers.

You're looking at overall journey times rather than the actual speed that the vehicles are travelling at which is what I suspect Ham'nd'egger was alluding to.

It is the actual speed in miles per hour of the train I am referring to though you are correct in mentioning the distance aspect; the signal has also to be maintained throughout the journey to offer the service on a train or a bus. Given that phone signals will rise and lower in motion, it is harder to ensure optimum signal through a full journey.

MOH · 29-10-2008 12:49pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

Trains run far faster than buses and carries far more passengers than a bus; the hard bit is in trying to maintain the broadband connection to an adequate level and signal strength to maintain coverage while at very high speeds. Certainly it is possible

The Bus Eireann WIFI is an experiment for now on one or two routes to gauge use on and practicality of same.

Fair point.

Although IE's excuse has nothing to do with the practicalities of implementation, but rather that "due to the limited lifespan of said technologies. Anything we install now is likely to be completely redundant within five years."

Which doesn't seem to be a concern for anyone else. It's just a cop out.

Ham'nd'egger · 29-10-2008 1:43pm

MOH wrote: »

Fair point.

Although IE's excuse has nothing to do with the practicalities of implementation, but rather that "due to the limited lifespan of said technologies. Anything we install now is likely to be completely redundant within five years."

Which doesn't seem to be a concern for anyone else. It's just a cop out.

There is now 4 mobile phone companies in the mobile broadband market. Chance are, if one wants mobile on the go then they would use these services. Looks like Irish Rail may well have seen this one through and saved themselves a few million € in the process.

pointofnoreturn · 29-10-2008 5:58pm

Hamndegger wrote: »

There is now 4 mobile phone companies in the mobile broadband market. Chance are, if one wants mobile on the go then they would use these services. Looks like Irish Rail may well have seen this one through and saved themselves a few million € in the process.

I;ve used a 3G modem on the Dublin to Galway Train, and the coverage is almost unless, have used the same modem from Dublin airport to Galway and it works quite well!site on a window seat and your set for your journey, it's seen these units in Sweden and the UK and they are not expensive, about 1k€ to fit out a bus to supply WiFi for about 50 passengers but the best part of 50% use it.

btw: regards 4 mobile operatores, most of the 3G infrastructure is shared.

in a rail scenario you've got more serous services, and if one spends enough on the infrastructure it services as a network to support network rail information. so this is where the €€€'s come in. if you just want a bit of wifi between a few friends in the train, take a 3G data plan out, put the SIM card in a n95 and you've got your mobile hotspot!

http://www.intomobile.com/2008/02/05/turn-your-s60-device-into-a-wifi-hotspot.html

As 3G access gets cheaper and allot of ultra mobile device have 3g built in anyways it won't be long before everyone has it, and thats where the decision lyes.

Bus Éireann WiFi

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