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Bora 150 TDI Remap? Gud or Bad Idea???

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    #32
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    voxpop wrote: »
    I gotta say Ive been pretty tempted to get remap ever since I got the car, virtually everyone that has gotten a good remap has raved about it - frying the clutch is the only major thing putting me off. Plus I know Id trash the car for the first week or two :D

    To be expected really!

    I've driven a couple of golfs that have had it done. I also had a tuning box for my old 110tdi which while being very crude, was very effective. It seems tho that the quality remaps are the way to go.

    These guys are recommended quite often on boards:

    http://www.chippedire.com/


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    #33
    voxpop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭voxpop


    Ferris wrote: »
    These guys are recommended quite often on boards:

    http://www.chippedire.com/


    Yeah Joe seems to be the man for remaps alright - he has a specific board over on vagdrivers. Have heard nothing but good stories about him and his remaps.

    Still at the back of my mind is the "if it aint broke dont fix it". Car runs perfectly now (110k on the clock) - dont want to upset it


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    #34
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    voxpop wrote: »
    Still at the back of my mind is the "if it aint broke dont fix it". Car runs perfectly now (110k on the clock) - dont want to upset it

    Main faults on a PD diesel are Turbo Failure, DM Flywheel failure and worn tappets. None of these can be directly influenced by fueling (remapping). Just keep your car well maintained and feed it the correct VW recommended fully synthetic oil and it should be fine.


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    #35
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,558 ✭✭✭maidhc


    Ferris wrote: »
    Main faults on a PD diesel are Turbo Failure, DM Flywheel failure and worn tappets. None of these can be directly influenced by fueling (remapping). Just keep your car well maintained and feed it the correct VW recommended fully synthetic oil and it should be fine.

    Well you can't burn more fuel unless you induce more air and thus make the turbo work harder. The DMF is more likely to fail when it is repeatedly subjected to compression. Both of these things will happen if you increase fueling and consequently power.


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    #36
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    maidhc wrote: »
    Well you can't burn more fuel unless you induce more air and thus make the turbo work harder. The DMF is more likely to fail when it is repeatedly subjected to compression. Both of these things will happen if you increase fueling and consequently power.

    The turbo shaft is suspended in an oil seal under oil pressure, its called a fluid bearing. When the turbo has oil pressure the bearing is frictionless so a higher rpm will not affect it. What does have an effect is the higher temp from the exhaust, this can affect the engine oil (separation) and fully synthetic oil withstands this best which is why I mentioned it.

    Just looked up DMFs and they are matched to the torque curve of the engine so oop's. Still they seem to go in any PD engine, not just chipped ones. They failed when they were brand new ffs.


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    #37
    maidhc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,558 ✭✭✭maidhc


    Ferris wrote: »
    The turbo shaft is suspended in an oil seal under oil pressure, its called a fluid bearing. When the turbo has oil pressure the bearing is frictionless so a higher rpm will not affect it. What does have an effect is the higher temp from the exhaust, this can affect the engine oil (separation) and fully synthetic oil withstands this best which is why I mentioned it.

    So you are saying you can substantially increase the load on the turbo by higher rpm (or is more likely the case) adjusting the variable vanes from manufacturer spec and NOT suffer an increased failure rate? Funny, I just don't believe that.
    Ferris wrote: »
    Just looked up DMFs and they are matched to the torque curve of the engine so oop's. Still they seem to go in any PD engine, not just chipped ones. They failed when they were brand new ffs.

    Ever see a DMF? Basically it two flywheels both connected together with a spring. They do fail, a lot, and on every model. The biggest reason the fail from my understanding is from stalling the car and the spring repeatedly going from maximum to minimum compression. If you drive smoothly, the flywheel should last forever as it is doing very little, if you are contantly dogging through the gears, or even driving with a greater torque output than spec you can ONLY cause the flywheel to work harder, and thus increase the liklihood of failure.

    All this may be academic if you had a car like the 105bhp TDI, as there are big overheads to play with. In the 150, your tolerances are quite tight to begin with


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    #38
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    maidhc wrote: »
    So you are saying you can substantially increase the load on the turbo by higher rpm (or is more likely the case) adjusting the variable vanes from manufacturer spec and NOT suffer an increased failure rate? Funny, I just don't believe that.

    Fact is that turbos fail for all sorts of reasons, most prevalent reasons are running them hard while the engine is cold and hasn't built up oil pressure, turning a roasting hot engine off without letting the oil cool the turbo a bit and using old oil. Margainly increasing the rpm over a frictionless bearing is a lot less harmful then these three scenarios.

    Fair enough on the DMF failures, if they are matched to a torque curve then a remap will change the dynamics of that curve so the flywheel will have more load on it. Where the extra torque comes in however is up in the rev range so I don't know if the DMF would suffer any extra 'shock' loading. I suppose its down to how the car is driven too. Either way I'd be surprised if remapped cars suffer significantly higher failure rates when compared to unmodified cars.


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    #39
    omega man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,760 ✭✭✭omega man


    I remapped my old Leon TDI150 a few years back with no problems at all. When i bought it there was a power box fitted (200 bhp per sales guy:confused:) which i promtly removed due to serious smoke. I got a proper remap (not chipped) which brought it to about 180/185. Fantastic torque and a noticable difference to the stock 150. In saying that its nothing compared to a good performance petrol. Go for it and i would recommend informing the insurance company. Believe it or not but at the time my insurance company said they did not differentiate between the 90/110/130 & 150 model! (performance wise).


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    #40
    damo150
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭damo150


    tossy wrote: »
    RIght,where does one start......

    Firstly for pig iron i would put your bora on a dyno in current form and i will wager it is putting out at least 170bhp as is(providing its a well minded and regularly serviced car),i will back up thsi wager too lets say 20 euros?

    Ive seen numerous 150 golfs dyno'd and 170 was the lowest ive seen with around 178 being the highest,this is a common trait amongst "the ancient" vag TDI's.

    Remap is the only way to go,and i would recommend joe power from chipped ire also,your engine block,turbo etc will easily handle 200bhp - EASILY!

    I know of a 130Pd golf putting out 224 odd bhp for the last 200,000 miles with not an ounce of trouble,not a drop of oil burned,he of course uprated the clutch,intercooler turbo and injectors but it gives you some example of the scope of these pre historic TDI engine blocks.

    The clutch is a total unknown,how many miles are currently on the car? (sorry if you already stated this) and how was the car driven before you bought it (who knows!) changes are if you car has high mileage then the remap will acclerate the wear on your clutch and it will start slipping,i know of one guy with a remapped bora ( 150pd upto 200 ) in this country and he got some clutch slip,he went shopping for a sachs uprated clutch,havent spoken to him in a while so i don't know how he got on,i know of another guy who got his 150 golf remapped a few months ago and he has had no clutch slippage what so ever!!

    So basically the olny way to find out is to do it,i would recommend doing it,if you go with a reputable mapper it can be reversed just as easily if you don't like it.

    Tuning boxes! DO NOT go near a tuning box,i used one on an old golf and it left me with a thirsty ECU and a faulty temp send sensor,not big problems but that was the sum total of its worth.a remap is the way to go it fine tunes every parameter that needs to be fine tuned such as boost,timing,injection rates etc.

    The not so fun bit - remember your car is a FWD drive car and is already coping with putting down serious amounts of torque through the 2 front wheels,when remapped it will be impossible to floor it in first or second gear and if its wet then forget about it,id imagine you are already having alot of trouble in the wet as is.

    I hope i covered everything?

    As for your car give us some details about it? did you buy it recently? if so was it a black one for sale on carzone? im a bora driver my self(albeit petrol) and that black one was the closest spec to my own ive seen for sale either here or in the UK for a long time.


    Tossy seems to b talking sense as like many of u. cheers 4 all the replys sorry took so long to get bac to ye had an internet problem.
    The car has 105k miles on it, its 03, A full VW service history. i bought it bac in jan. the car is driving 100%. excrpt for faulty temp sensor causing it to run a little off when cold. after reading the posts i think i am going to remap it. Properly.... i know for a fact that most tuning boxes are a farse. nothing but smoke... going to save a bit of money, get the timing belt done and get her pluged in.
    oh does anyone know bout getting timing belt done. a mechanic tells me that if u r doing the timing belt u must plug her into a computer to know how much to alter the timing. i thought that if u took the belt off of the teeth and lined her up straight putting it bac on u can't go wrong coz if ur a tooth out ur way out.


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    #41
    Slidey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭Slidey


    damo150 wrote: »
    oh does anyone know bout getting timing belt done. a mechanic tells me that if u r doing the timing belt u must plug her into a computer to know how much to alter the timing. i thought that if u took the belt off of the teeth and lined her up straight putting it bac on u can't go wrong coz if ur a tooth out ur way out.
    Never heard of this.

    Have done numerous vw diesel belts and have never needed a computer for it.

    Most were the older injection pump type but did a pd engine in a Superb and just lined up the marks and it was fine..


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    #42
    tossy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭tossy


    whats the spec of it damo is it an irish car?

    get the faulty temp sensor sorted while you are at it,only cost a few quid you will find your MPG might improve too.


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    get it remapped ffs

    and dont be so selfish and do it for the environment too

    I had my diesel remapped a few years ago and I got 28bhp more and more MPG
    :D


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    #44
    damo150
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭damo150


    shes uk sport sec. nice car. do u work on cars dat u know bout dem on de dyno?


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    #45
    Slidey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭Slidey


    damo150 wrote: »
    shes uk sport sec. nice car. do u work on cars dat u know bout dem on de dyno?
    No disrespect horse, but try and refrain from the txt spk.. its a bit hard on the eyes and makes baby Jesus cry...


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    #46
    tossy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭tossy


    damo150 wrote: »
    shes uk sport sec. nice car. do u work on cars dat u know bout dem on de dyno?

    No just a car nut and have alot of exp of VAG cars,im a bora driver myself 224 bhp and no remap yet :D


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    #47
    Bearcat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    eh sideways...your the lad that told me the 150 is a 16v. your a brave man to reload on this thread.....

    come back to us when yor puttin out 430bhp ou the rear end..:D

    1988 930......the bad boy


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    #48
    Slidey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭Slidey


    Ah sure we all make mistakes!

    Ps if we want to have a pissing comp I have driven a turbo'd swede with rolling road 720 brake! :)


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    #49
    Bearcat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    fairplay sideways....your straight up. putting the 930 upto 420 brake soon....the yanks have this one sussed....amazing intercoolers, better turbos.....with the dollar its a no brainer......cheers mate.


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    #50
    rccaulfield
    Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭rccaulfield


    Why,its a Bora??


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    #51
    Slidey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭Slidey


    Bearcat wrote: »
    fairplay sideways....your straight up. putting the 930 upto 420 brake soon....the yanks have this one sussed....amazing intercoolers, better turbos.....with the dollar its a no brainer......cheers mate.


    I'll be honest, it was a chipped one of these V :o

    Scania-R-620-Ricoe-Holz-010806-02.jpg


    Back on topic, was chatting a fella at the weekend and you can now get solid flywheel so that will get rid of that weak link in the chain


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    #52
    tossy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,590 ✭✭✭tossy


    rccaulfield wrote: »
    Why,its a Bora??

    What gave it away the title? jesus no flies on you is there? that was almost a worthwhile contribution as this one was http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=56814066&postcount=10863

    stick to your counting to a million games!


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    #53
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    damo150 wrote: »
    oh does anyone know bout getting timing belt done. a mechanic tells me that if u r doing the timing belt u must plug her into a computer to know how much to alter the timing. i thought that if u took the belt off of the teeth and lined her up straight putting it bac on u can't go wrong coz if ur a tooth out ur way out.

    Most (good:)) mechanics would use a camshaft locking tool designed for the 1.9tdi. This prevents the timing being altered. Plugging into a computer sounds like horsesh1te!


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    #54
    rezzer
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭rezzer


    Hows it going. I came across this post while trying to find some feedback on ecu remaps. I can't find any one that has had it done over a year or 2. I have a 2.0tdi golf mk5 and I’m very close to getting it remapped with the upsolute guy in killarney. I have spoken to him a few times on the phone and he seems to know his stuff. I'm only just learning the basics when it comes to anything past the stats of an engine.
    Upsolute in killarney said they would reinstall the remap for free if the main dealers flashed it out during a service. So that’s that little hurdle sorted. They also remove the software from your car and email it to Austria. http://www.upsolute.com/ so they can over lay the remap over your cars original software. So my remap won’t be a generic one, which pulls me a little closer to remapping.
    The thing I’m most worried about is that I will be driving this car for a long time. It has 60,000 miles on the clock and is rising fast. If I get it remapped will I be seeing a lot more trouble than normal when I get to 120,000- 150,000.
    Question – what can a remap effect in an engine.
    I know the turbo life gets shortened if the boost pressure gets changed. The clutch can go a little faster. Ye were all talking about the fly wheel. I might have that one sorted because there is a recall for my car for the flywheel that I have yet to use so I’ll be getting a new one before the remap.
    So back to my point. Is there anyone out there that has owned a remapped car for a few years or more and has clocked up a lot of mileage on it.

    If so then please reply. I need more power but can't afford a new car.

    Cheers..


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