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oscarBravo's "infractions" and impartiality

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    #122
    RoundyMooney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    owl.jpg

    y1pu6IpKi4My0wXULbkfMi5dS3sLRpbJhFShXopEPi-uP7eGHrefdv0TkHsGcVOJbwj3eJZ3LUbsrw


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    #123
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Is it me, or are skins around here getting incredibly thin?

    First, this thread is started to complain about the permanent psychological scars I've inflicted by having the nerve to actually wield the blunt-force instrument of an infraction on someone. Dubya's invasion of Iraq pales into insignificance by comparison.

    But wait: it gets worse. Not content with my massacre of innocent bystanders with depleted uranium infractions, I was actually short in my replies to someone. The humanity!

    De-modded? I should be locked up for life. Won't someone think of the children?
    oscar trying to be a funny guy....... give it up pal, the only one who finds your wit funny is undoubtably yourself :rolleyes:.

    Isn't that really something though accusing people of being thin skinned when this ' moderator ' gave gurramok an infraction for 'insulting behaviour' in reply to a poster for saying in an EU debate... 'Good grief, you haven't a clue' or lostexpectation an infraction for allegedly insulting another member when he said somebody 'wasn't very public minded' when he gave out about buses !!!!! What a knob.

    One of the thing's in my orginal post that I forgot to mention was that I was not just taking exception to his infractions giving to me, but many others as well. I mean this honestly and not as part of an agenda or sarcasm but it appears to me anyway that he seems to hand out more infractions and bans than the rest of the moderators on the politics forum combined - honest.

    To quote redspider
    redspider wrote:

    DeVore, the problems I see is that infractions are used in a very subjective fashion, they are given out in non-obvious cases, they are used like confetti in the politics forum and when accumulated they lead to a ban. oscarBravo in particular seems to relish giving them out, he uses them in a childlike manner and they are like his 'toy'. He enjoys giving them out, I have no doubt. I was the recipient of his so-called 'judgements' and there is little support from other mods. I think I got a forum banning from a mere 3 infractions or something on items that were very very subjective. For example, one post was something like 60 lines and he took umbrage(sp?) at the last line which he interpreted as warranting an infraction. Then, there was no information from him on when I would be allowed back on.
    Its out of control if you ask me and I have no problem saying that publicly. My opinion would be that oscarBravo should be given a 'rest' from modding the politics forum, and I have no doubt that many would back that. On the one hand you could say having an active policeman in such a 'volatile' forum is a good thing and can help with 'libel issues', but on the other hand the 'strong arm' tactics poison the forum.

    But to me it doesn't appear to be a simple matter of just throwing infractions and bans around like confetti to everyone, he obviously has a clear agenda and bias against anyone with republican views. As dlofnep states - " You're not fit for moderation OB as you cannot fufil your position in an unbiased manner......You have an agenda against Republicans. I'm not the only one to say it. There is no smoke without fire. You have a clear agenda against us and use your moderation weight at any given cost to warn us, or bully us around in posts threatening to ban us for voicing our opinions - and when we challenge whatever you have labelled us as, you refuse to discuss it or even try to begin to take onboard anything logical we are saying. "

    Says it all really.


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    #124
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Bloody hell, are you still on that cross?


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    #125
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    But what does republican jesus say on the matter?

    Republican%20Jesus%20repjesus29.gif


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    #126
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Bloody hell, are you still on that cross?
    Bloody hell, will you ever stop being a bollox :rolleyes:.


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    #127
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    Bloody hell, will you ever stop being a bollox :rolleyes:.

    So is that a personal attack or an assessment? :confused:


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    #128
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    javaboy wrote: »
    So is that a personal attack or an assessment? :confused:
    Reality unfortunately.


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    #129
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If there is a body of disgruntled posters building and at some point the Admins might consider if there is some basis for the annoyance.

    I should say I don't care either way about the specific post/comment issues only that when a Mod starts attracting the wrong sort of attention on an ongoing basis it does nothing for the Mod or the foums he/she moderates.

    Mike.


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    #130
    It wasn't me!
    Registered Users Posts: 13,034 ✭✭✭✭It wasn't me!


    What I personally find annoying is when someone takes it upon themselves to get incensed at other people's bans or infractions. It's none of their damn business, and if the people concerned were so offended, they'd start their own thread.


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    #131
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    mike65 wrote: »
    I should say I don't care either way about the specific post/comment issues only that when a Mod starts attracting the wrong sort of attention on an ongoing basis it does nothing for the Mod or the foums he/she moderates.

    That only makes sense taken within the context of the forum they mod. On somewhere like Physics or UCC where issues aren't very divisive a mod getting constant feedback threads would be a worry, on somewhere like Politics where the issues are almost by definition divisive I'd be be impressed by anyone capable of not generating a lot of feedback threads while being active as a mod, it would be quite unusual given the nature of the forum and it's propensity to attract hardliners and soapboxers who will gladly fight over nothing.


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    #132
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    nesf wrote: »
    That only makes sense taken within the context of the forum they mod. On somewhere like Physics or UCC where issues aren't very divisive a mod getting constant feedback threads would be a worry, on somewhere like Politics where the issues are almost by definition divisive I'd be be impressed by anyone capable of not generating a lot of feedback threads while being active as a mod, it would be quite unusual given the nature of the forum and it's propensity to attract hardliners and soapboxers who will gladly fight over nothing.

    Agreed. To some degree, I get worried when there are no complaints about Politics as it makes me wonder if the forum is going the way of Humanities......


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    #133
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    mike65 wrote: »
    If there is a body of disgruntled posters building and at some point the Admins might consider if there is some basis for the annoyance.

    I should say I don't care either way about the specific post/comment issues only that when a Mod starts attracting the wrong sort of attention on an ongoing basis it does nothing for the Mod or the foums he/she moderates

    I suspect that the "basis for the annoyance" is a combination of the strict rules in Politics and the fact that oscarBravo enforces those rules quite carefully. In many other forums you can get away with pushing the boundaries of the rules but not much gets past the Politics mods. This is a very good thing IMO. Without their strict modding the Politics forum would implode under the weight of the resulting insults, soapboxing and general nonsense that are kept out at the moment. I don't think anyone wants the Politics forum to turn into a second Thunderdome.

    As for the two examples that SlabMurphy provided, the first was for this post by gurramok and the second was for this post by lostexpectation. The former was an infraction and the latter was only a warning. As far as I can see, both fell foul of this part of the rules:
    Politics Charter wrote:
    Never attack a poster. Attack the content of their post.

    They broke the rules, they got slapped for it. I don't see how any reasonable person could argue with that.


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    #134
    SlabMurphy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 462 ✭✭SlabMurphy


    mike65 wrote: »
    If there is a body of disgruntled posters building and at some point the Admins might consider if there is some basis for the annoyance.

    I should say I don't care either way about the specific post/comment issues only that when a Mod starts attracting the wrong sort of attention on an ongoing basis it does nothing for the Mod or the foums he/she moderates.

    Mike.
    Agreed.

    nesf wrote: »
    That only makes sense taken within the context of the forum they mod. On somewhere like Physics or UCC where issues aren't very divisive a mod getting constant feedback threads would be a worry, on somewhere like Politics where the issues are almost by definition divisive I'd be be impressed by anyone capable of not generating a lot of feedback threads while being active as a mod, it would be quite unusual given the nature of the forum and it's propensity to attract hardliners and soapboxers who will gladly fight over nothing.
    Also agreed, but he seems to be the only moderator on the politics forum people seem to have a problem with. To quote redspider again "oscarBravo in particular seems to relish giving them out, he uses them in a childlike manner and they are like his 'toy'. He enjoys giving them out, I have no doubt. I was the recipient of his so-called 'judgements' and there is little support from other mods. "

    IRLConor wrote: »
    I suspect that the "basis for the annoyance" is a combination of the strict rules in Politics and the fact that oscarBravo enforces those rules quite carefully. In many other forums you can get away with pushing the boundaries of the rules but not much gets past the Politics mods. This is a very good thing IMO. Without their strict modding the Politics forum would implode under the weight of the resulting insults, soapboxing and general nonsense that are kept out at the moment. I don't think anyone wants the Politics forum to turn into a second Thunderdome.

    As for the two examples that SlabMurphy provided, the first was for this post by gurramok and the second was for this post by lostexpectation. The former was an infraction and the latter was only a warning. As far as I can see, both fell foul of this part of the rules:



    They broke the rules, they got slapped for it. I don't see how any reasonable person could argue with that.
    Yes and he's found of breaking the rules himself. As an examople he stated to dlopnef - " This kind of xenophobic rant isn't welcome on this forum. If you can't see past your blind hatred of Britain, find another place to vent it. " I think any reasonable person would agree that this would fall under - Never attack a poster. Attack the content of their post.


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    #135
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    Also agreed, but he seems to be the only moderator on the politics forum people seem to have a problem with.

    He's also, by far, the most active moderator from what I've noticed on that forum and because of this the one most likely to hand these infractions out. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a decision by him that I strongly disagreed with yet on there and I have disagreed quite strongly with previous politics mods in the past on things.


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    #136
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    As an examople he stated to dlopnef - " This kind of xenophobic rant isn't welcome on this forum. If you can't see past your blind hatred of Britain, find another place to vent it. " I think any reasonable person would agree that this would fall under - Never attack a poster. Attack the content of their post.

    /facepalm


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    #137
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    SlabMurphy wrote: »
    Yes and he's found of breaking the rules himself. As an examople he stated to dlopnef - " This kind of xenophobic rant isn't welcome on this forum. If you can't see past your blind hatred of Britain, find another place to vent it. " I think any reasonable person would agree that this would fall under - Never attack a poster. Attack the content of their post.

    There's a little leeway needed when moderating.

    For example, if I were to say:

    "Stop trolling or I'll ban you"

    to a blatant troll, then by your strict definition of the rules that's not allowed since I'm attacking the poster but I don't think it's unreasonable to do that in that case.

    If the posts had looked like this:
    oscarBravo (Hypothetically) wrote:
    dlofnep wrote:
    Democracy is only useful to Britain when it suits them. And when it doesn't? They shoot and kill anything that opposes their judgment.

    This kind of xenophobic rant isn't welcome on this forum. Either contribute rational, sensible argument based in reality or don't post at all.

    would it be OK? (Bearing in mind that both versions say the same thing, i.e. "Grow up or f*** off")


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    #138
    AnimalRights
    Registered Users Posts: 7,067 ✭✭✭AnimalRights


    mike65 wrote: »
    paddybar You may want to check out the likes of thumped or p45rant quite soon.

    Mike.
    Eirecore is even better (although under the Thumped umberalla)
    No one ever get's banned or the like and yet it's a well run forum.

    I also think the OP had a very valid argument.


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    #139
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    IRLConor wrote: »
    this post by lostexpectation. The former was an infraction and the latter was only a warning. As far as I can see, both fell foul of this part of the rules:

    They broke the rules, they got slapped for it. I don't see how any reasonable person could argue with that.

    i didn't break any rule, you'll have to explain what i did? i didn't insult anybody I said somebody wasn't very public minded??? wheres the insult, wheres the rule breaking?

    more mods automatically agreeing with mods,


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    #140
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    i didn't break any rule, you'll have to explain what i did? i didn't insult anybody I said somebody wasn't very public minded??? wheres the insult, wheres the rule breaking?

    FYI, it was me that was supposedly "not very public minded".

    You made a comment about me rather than the content of my post. That's against the rules:
    Politics rules wrote:
    Never attack a poster. Attack the content of their post.

    Is that not clear enough?
    lostexpectation wrote: »
    more mods automatically agreeing with mods,

    :rolleyes: No, it's mods agreeing with the people who are in the right rather than the people who are in the wrong. The fact that they are mods is beside the point.

    If you still believe that there's a big mod conspiracy, then go here.


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    #141
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    lostexpectation wrote: »
    more mods automatically agreeing with mods,

    This old chestnut? When will people learn? There are an awful lot of mods here. I doubt most of them know each other in real life and a lot of them don't even like each other.

    What do you want instead? Mods automatically disagreeing with each other?

    IRLConor gave a reason behind his opinion instead of just saying "I agree with the mod".


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    #142
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    IRLConor wrote: »
    As for the two examples that SlabMurphy provided, the first was for this post by gurramok and the second was for this post by lostexpectation. The former was an infraction and the latter was only a warning. As far as I can see, both fell foul of this part of the rules:

    They broke the rules, they got slapped for it. I don't see how any reasonable person could argue with that.

    Does 'good grief, one hasn't a clue' sound more in line than saying the words 'you haven't' in the sentence? :)

    Regarding infractions, how do we know other posters are getting them too?
    I've only noticed a red card beside my posts but not others unless i'm looking in the wrong place?! :)


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    #143
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    gurramok wrote: »
    Regarding infractions, how do we know other posters are getting them too?
    I've only noticed a red card beside my posts but not others unless i'm looking in the wrong place?! :)
    You can only see infractions you have recieved. You can't see other peoples infractions.


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    #144
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    You can only see infractions you have recieved. You can't see other peoples infractions.

    So why the secrecy then?

    It would be handy to see what constitutes infractions so other posters could learn for future reference on whats acceptable and it would prove that outside the mods view that OB is not biased.
    We know whats acceptable for bannings but for infractions, some are ludicrous :)
    nesf wrote:
    He's also, by far, the most active moderator from what I've noticed on that forum and because of this the one most likely to hand these infractions out. Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a decision by him that I strongly disagreed with yet on there and I have disagreed quite strongly with previous politics mods in the past on things.

    Maybe he is overworked or other mods are not pulling their weight? :D


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    #145
    MattiePrenderga
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭MattiePrenderga


    gurramok wrote: »
    So why the secrecy then?

    It would be handy to see what constitutes infractions so other posters could learn for future reference on whats acceptable and it would prove that outside the mods view that OB is not biased.
    We know whats acceptable for bannings but for infractions, some are ludicrous :)



    Maybe he is overworked or other mods are not pulling their weight? :D

    I think the OP has a point, although being a moderator must be a thankless task. Having read the politics threads, oscur bravo does seem to be either very active compared to other mods, or else maybe he is unemployed and just has a lot of time on his hands. either way he doesnt seem to be fair or even polite to many guys


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    #146
    Sherifu
    Registered Users Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    MattiePrenderga wrote: »
    I think the OP has a point, although being a moderator must be a thankless task. Having read the politics threads, oscur bravo does seem to be either very active compared to other mods, or else maybe he is unemployed and just has a lot of time on his hands. either way he doesnt seem to be fair or even polite to many guys
    That's an interesting first post. :)

    Have you been reading Politics for long?


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    #147
    Bob the Builder
    Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    MattiePrenderga wrote: »
    I think the OP has a point, although being a moderator must be a thankless task. Having read the politics threads, oscur bravo does seem to be either very active compared to other mods, or else maybe he is unemployed and just has a lot of time on his hands. either way he doesnt seem to be fair or even polite to many guys
    there's a few forums on boards where everyone hates the mods because they are so strict, but we should be twice as thankful for them because we'd have loads of arseholes ruining the forum otherwise. At least everyone knows their place in politics forum whether they hate oB or not.


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    #148
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    gurramok wrote: »
    Does 'good grief, one hasn't a clue' sound more in line than saying the words 'you haven't' in the sentence? :)

    Perhaps. :)

    I have noticed that some people get away with insulting people in the Politics forum, I think it just takes a lot of work to disguise it.
    gurramok wrote: »
    So why the secrecy then?

    It would be handy to see what constitutes infractions so other posters could learn for future reference on whats acceptable and it would prove that outside the mods view that OB is not biased.
    We know whats acceptable for bannings but for infractions, some are ludicrous :)

    Perhaps visible infractions would be a good thing, pour encourager les autres.

    As far as I'm concerned infractions are for "I'd almost ban you for this, but if you cop on you might contribute to the discussion" situations.
    gurramok wrote: »
    Maybe he is overworked or other mods are not pulling their weight? :D

    :D

    oscarBravo gives what he can offer, like most if not all mods. Not all mods do the same amount of work because not all mods have the same amount of time that they can offer to boards.ie.

    Sometimes these things run in cycles too. I was unemployed for a while this year and hence had more time for keeping an eye on the Shooting forums. I'm sure there'll be some time in the near future where I'll be so busy I don't get enough time to do a proper job, but that's why there are multiple mods for most forums.
    MattiePrenderga wrote: »
    I think the OP has a point, although being a moderator must be a thankless task. Having read the politics threads, oscur bravo does seem to be either very active compared to other mods, or else maybe he is unemployed and just has a lot of time on his hands. either way he doesnt seem to be fair or even polite to many guys

    Considering how much of an asshole-magnet the Politics forums are I surprised anyone could stick moderating it for any length of time. Any time any of them are polite it's nothing short of a miracle of patience. :D


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    #149
    jawlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭jawlie


    IRLConor wrote: »
    Perhaps. :)



    Considering how much of an asshole-magnet the Politics forums are I surprised anyone could stick moderating it for any length of time. Any time any of them are polite it's nothing short of a miracle of patience. :D

    Are you referring to the moderators or the posters or both? :D I read the politic forums but don't contribute there, and it is sometimes evident that some moderators seem to get a kick out of flexing their muscles.

    There used to be an idea that a hitler couldn't have risen to power in the UK because they had double decker buses with conductors, and if only Germany had the same transport system hitler would have been quite content conducting his bus and finding that a sufficient outlet for his meglomaniac appetites. It seems some moderators also enjoy that side of moderating more than others.


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    #150
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    jawlie wrote: »
    There used to be an idea that a hitler couldn't have risen to power in the UK because they had double decker buses with conductors, and if only Germany had the same transport system hitler would have been quite content conducting his bus and finding that a sufficient outlet for his meglomaniac appetites. It seems some moderators also enjoy that side of moderating more than others.


    Woo Hoo, thats deadly :D


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    #151
    auerillo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭auerillo


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    auerillo, is there a particular reason you're ignoring my posts?

    I only ask because it's a behaviour that's awfully familiar, as is your writing style.

    Now, far be it from me to accuse you of a site-bannable offence like re-registering to evade a ban, but if it walks like a duck...
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Considering you talk a lot about democracy, you could start with the post where I pointed out that your vision of democracy is deeply flawed.

    On a more general note, I was bringing your attention to the fact that you remind me a lot of someone that I had to ban from this forum under four separate guises for a similar soapboxing style.
    auerillo wrote: »

    I’m not sure what you mean when you talk about my “soap boxing style”. I’m trying to have an interesting and illuminating discussion and if you have an example of where I have “soap boxed” I’d be delighted to have it drawn to my attention so as to try to avoid breaking the rules in future. (If you want to do that in a pvt message rather than take up space in the discussion, I’ll happily take it on board).

    I find the modorator oscar bravo to be aggressive and confrontational. Rather than engaging in discussion he seems to prefer to issue veiled threats and, when asked to explain what he means, doesn’t do so. Despite claiming that I "soap boxed", he never replied to my request above. Its not a good way to moderate anything and sometimes it seems to be his intention to goad and provoke me, and others, into intemperate responses. I think the politics threads are less interesting places due to his excessive zeal and aggressive attitude.
    Bambi wrote: »
    interesting that this thread is here. i was about to create a new one on a similar subject, so while on the subject off topic posts

    taken from:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055313521&page=13




    I have a problem with this approach to moderation

    a) The guy is being asked to prove that he is not somebody else, how he can do that is beyond me.

    b) OB appears to be baiting the poster into responding which leaves them in danger of being banned for questioning a mods decision or going OT even though its the mod who has initiated it.


    c) It's smacks of smear tactics. if OB has suspicions about the the poster then confirm or deny it and then take it to PM, airing it public seems very suspsect to me.

    I agree with Bambi and others who have questions about this sort of over-zealous and personal-attack type of moderation, which is aggressive, unnecessarily confrontational, unfriendly and seems to be designed to provoke or bait a member into a response which would then leave the moderator able to claim justification for a ban.


This discussion has been closed.
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