how do you rate Daisuke Matsuzaka

MogwaiFearSatan · 15-11-2006 6:27pm #1

for 51.1 mil + whatever the player signs for, is he worth the money.

he has 5 good pitches (so we are told), hurls 90+ pitches at will & 18 complete games , but thats in Japan NOT in MLB against MLB hitters.

do you think hes is going to bring anything more to the game other that increased trade prices and press corp.

also whats your view on silent bid process between MLB & Japan, with the Mets coming in 2nd with a 38 Mil bid there seems to be only one winner with the process here & that the Japanese clubs.

BigDragon · 17-11-2006 2:46am

The guys in the know say ''NO''

MrJoeSoap · 17-11-2006 2:55am

The Red Sox just paid more for negotiating rights with one pitcher than they did for Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz over the past two years combined.

Wow.

Matsuzaka’s comparables are pretty much the best pitchers in baseball: Roger Clemens at the top, followed by Roy Halladay, Brandon Webb, Chris Carpenter and a whole lot of other names you might recognize from All-Star Games and Cy Young vote totals.

Would certainly be good to see, if the price is ignored.

One reason a team like the Red Sox, which has never had a Japanese star, is motivated to sign one is the potential for marketing opportunities. It's not easy to quantify what these mean to the bottom line, since much of the potential revenue has been tapped by MLB via broadcast contracts and licensing agreements. BP's Maury Brown says, "It may be hard to quantify the situation as a 1:1. Ichiro's value to the Mariners/Seattle is due to the location: Seattle sits on the Pacific Rim, and allows for a great deal of tourism dollars to be associated with Ichiro. I don't know if you will have the tourism dollars associated to Matsuzaka like you have with Ichiro, but other revenues may come along with his acquisition."

Interesting point, and certainly something that soccer has exploited in the past decade or so. With the price being so high there is bound to be a massive Japanese following for the Sox in the next couple of years. But...

The Red Sox are not very well equipped to handle extra demand for tickets among Japanese fans, as they’ve about maxed out capacity at Fenway Park. They can capture some of the increased demand through raising ticket prices, although they already have the highest ones in the game and they run the risk of a loss of goodwill if they continue to squeeze the fan base. Because Sox games will be televised in Japan more often, they may have the opportunity to sell some stadium signage geared to that market. Neil deMause doesn’t see that as a big factor, saying, "If signing Matsui allowed the Yankees to sell ad signage in the stadium to Japanese companies (I seem to recall the K counter is sponsored by one), how much more did they get over what they could have sold the boards for to another company?"

Other than the basic merchandise sales, and the (probably) minimal revenue from stadium advertising, will he make them the money?

As the last paragraph of that link suggests, he'd be a good acquisition from a pure baseball perspective, but without something to show at the end of 2007 he might not make financial sense. Time will tell.

Conor_8 · 18-12-2006 11:09am

Really looking forward to seeing this guy pitch. I didn't catch many of Japan's games at the WBC so didn't get a good look at him. Just hope that he's as good as Theo Epstein is making out and not a very expensive efffort to get into the Japanese market.

Red Sox are looking good for 2007 already! Just need to sort that pesky closer problem and hope a few more players stay fit this time :rolleyes:

BigDragon · 18-12-2006 4:38pm

Conor_8 wrote:

Really looking forward to seeing this guy pitch. I didn't catch many of Japan's games at the WBC so didn't get a good look at him. Just hope that he's as good as Theo Epstein is making out and not a very expensive efffort to get into the Japanese market.

Red Sox are looking good for 2007 already! Just need to sort that pesky closer problem and hope a few more players stay fit this time :rolleyes:

Yeah looking good but

1. We gotta get that closer
2. We gotta get the Drew shoulder issue sorted
3. We gotta get D-Mat a better nickname.

2007 looking good but everyone still saying that they are building for 2008 :eek:

Conor_8 · 19-12-2006 10:11am

Yeah the issue with Drew's shoulder could be a big one. With Nixon gone and to avoid relying on Pena as an everyday player, we need to pick up another OF if Drew is not right.

2007 will depend on the things you mentioned, although how long it takes D-Mat to settle in could be more important than his nickname

PappaCSkillz22 · 19-12-2006 5:39pm

The Matsuzaka signing is huge for the Sox. It does so many things for the pitching staff in '07 it was worth every penny, if not more. Allot of people are starting to say the actual contract itself was a relative steal.

The main thing is though, it introduces serious class into the rotation, and possibly frees up other pitching for the bullpen. Instead of a shortage of pitching, ala '06, the Sox now have an abbundance of top class pitching.

The closer 'issue' is a total non issue, they will either 'hire from within' or make a trade, it's not a problem.

The main thing is - as it stands, the rotation is arguably the best in the majors. That's all you need to say really. This rotation, if it stays healthy, could absolutely steamroll next year.

zuutroy · 20-12-2006 11:37am

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

the rotation is arguably the best in the majors. That's all you need to say really. This rotation, if it stays healthy, could absolutely steamroll next year.

BAH! Schilling's over the hill now, Same goes for Wakefield; Beckett gives up WAAY too many homers. I remember watching a game against the Indians last year where they hit 3-4 in one inning...that was funny; Papelbon will be figured out (its started already); Clement is just hopeless, and Matsuzaka is unproven!

Wait until any one of them have to face Rios, Wells, Thomas, Glaus, and Overbay in a row; They'll be destroyed...mwuuahhahhahahahaaa

Ok....that may be in a perfect world, but I do think people are looking at them on paper and thinking its gonna transfer to the field a bit much

PappaCSkillz22 · 20-12-2006 11:58am

zuutroy wrote:

BAH! Schilling's over the hill now, Same goes for Wakefield; Beckett gives up WAAY too many homers. I remember watching a game against the Indians last year where they hit 3-4 in one inning...that was funny; Papelbon will be figured out (its started already); Clement is just hopeless, and Matsuzaka is unproven!

Wait until any one of them have to face Rios, Wells, Thomas, Glaus, and Overbay in a row; They'll be destroyed...mwuuahhahhahahahaaa

Ok....that may be in a perfect world, but I do think people are looking at them on paper and thinking its gonna transfer to the field a bit much

You Sir, are a buffoon.

Curt Schilling over the hill? Apparently you didn't watch him pitch at all last year. ''A 4-0 record with a minuscule 1.61 ERA silenced a number of critics who speculated that he was nearing the end of his career. He finished the year with a 15-7 record and 198 strikeouts, with a respectable 3.97 ERA.''

15-7 is over the hill? Wow...

Calling Tim Wakefield over the hill is just idiotic, he had one of his best years in 2006 and constantly gives the Sox a 200 inning season with a bunch of quality starts and wins. Beckett? Yep, he had a tricky season in some aspects, coming over from the NL and throwing his fastball too much, but he still went 16-11, gave the Sox 200 innings and struck out 154 as opposed to only 74 walks. If that is an off year, the Red Sox will take it, happily.

With a season with Varitek under his belt Josh will be vastly improved in 2007. Vastly improved on 16-11? Maybe 18-7, 18-8, and those are superstar pitching stats.

Matsuazka is unproven? Wow. That's really scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel. I guess you put no value in International baseball, namely the World Baseball Championships, which the States failed to even medal in? Matsuzaka was the MVP of said tournament. The Red Sox have scouted him for two years and have fallen absolutely in love with his demeanour, his intelligence on the mound and most of all, his sensational, comic book stuff. Unproven? Maybe to someone who doesn't actually watch any baseball, sure.

I saved the best for last. Papelbon.

MLB statistics
(through 2006)
Record 7-3
Strikeouts 109
ERA 1.50
Innings pitched 102.1

Yeah, looks like pretty much everyone has figured him out!

''The 25-year-old closer finished 2006 with one of the most dominant seasons ever for a rookie pitcher. Papelbon saved 35 games, struck out 75 batters in 68 innings, and held opposing batters to a minuscule .167 batting average.''

I guess I shouldn't expect more from a Blue Jays fan, where pitching is an absolute afterthought. How many innings you expecting from AJ in '07? 50? 60? Good luck with that. Doc Halladay is a superb pitcher, ill give you that, but after him, the Blue Jays are a pitching nightmare. What a bunch of no names. The names you do recognise are pathetic. ''Oh no, not Gustavo Chacin!!''

Give me a break.

Bottom line is, show me a rotation in the Majors stronger than Matsuzaka, Beckett, Schilling, Papelbon and Wakefield. 1-5 there aint none.

zuutroy · 20-12-2006 1:35pm

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

You Sir, are a buffoon.

Did you not read the sentence:

"Ok....that may be in a perfect world"

That post was me clutching at straws and hoping the above would come true!

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

Curt Schilling over the hill? Apparently you didn't watch him pitch at all last year. ''A 4-0 record with a minuscule 1.61 ERA silenced a number of critics who speculated that he was nearing the end of his career. He finished the year with a 15-7 record and 198 strikeouts, with a respectable 3.97 ERA.''

15-7 is over the hill? Wow...

He'll most likely be pretty good but he gave up 28 homers and 220 hits last year, and struggled in the 2nd half. Not as good as he once was, and not an a true ace anymore.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

Calling Tim Wakefield over the hill is just idiotic, he had one of his best years in 2006 and constantly gives the Sox a 200 inning season with a bunch of quality starts and wins.

Best Years? 7-11 4.63 ERA with an injury to boot. People love the guy because of his wacky knuckler, but he's really just an average number 4.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

Beckett? Yep, he had a tricky season in some aspects, coming over from the NL and throwing his fastball too much, but he still went 16-11, gave the Sox 200 innings and struck out 154 as opposed to only 74 walks. If that is an off year, the Red Sox will take it, happily.

With a season with Varitek under his belt Josh will be vastly improved in 2007. Vastly improved on 16-11? Maybe 18-7, 18-8, and those are superstar pitching stats.

Now that just denial...he was brutal...admit it! 36 Homers. He got worse as the year wore on, and you think just because the calendar turns over he's gonna be able to keep the ball of Lansdowne st? Not so sure about that
16-11 was purely due to run support...wins is a terrible way to judge a pitcher. The Sox scored over 7 runs per game in his victories.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

Matsuazka is unproven? Wow. That's really scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel. I guess you put no value in International baseball, namely the World Baseball Championships, which the States failed to even medal in? Matsuzaka was the MVP of said tournament. The Red Sox have scouted him for two years and have fallen absolutely in love with his demeanour, his intelligence on the mound and most of all, his sensational, comic book stuff. Unproven? Maybe to someone who doesn't actually watch any baseball, sure.

I mean he hasn't been tested in the Majors yet, and while they've invested $100M in him and know far more than me, he hasnt thrown an MLB pitch in anger yet, that what I meant by unproven. I look forward to watching him.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

I saved the best for last. Papelbon.

MLB statistics
(through 2006)
Record 7-3
Strikeouts 109
ERA 1.50
Innings pitched 102.1

Yeah, looks like pretty much everyone has figured him out!

I just want to see a second season from him before I believe it.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

I guess I shouldn't expect more from a Blue Jays fan, where pitching is an absolute afterthought. How many innings you expecting from AJ in '07? 50? 60? Good luck with that. Doc Halladay is a superb pitcher, ill give you that, but after him, the Blue Jays are a pitching nightmare. What a bunch of no names. The names you do recognise are pathetic. ''Oh no, not Gustavo Chacin!!''

Give me a break.

Halladay is great, but Santana is better IMO. I hope AJ can put up 200 this year (wishful thinking). He did show signs of dominance last year and I'd rather have him than Beckett. Hey dont dis Gus! He was pretty good in '05, hoping for the same this year. It was bad luck that Lilly and Meche opted for LAST PLACE teams over a shot at the playoffs for more money, but there's still time to get a good number 3. Then at the number 5 slot is going to be the return of THE GREAT ONE.....JOSH TOWERS! (I know, please dont say anything).

Oh yeah, I noticed you've addressed the Red Sox starters but who's going to pitch the 500 or so innings that they dont....The wonderful bullpen featuring Mike Timlin, Julian Tavarez and friends.
This is an area where the Jays do have an advantage: BJ Ryan, Brandon League (100mph+ that has finally found his control), Scott Downs and Jason Frasor are all reliable arms.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

Bottom line is, show me a rotation in the Majors stronger than Matsuzaka, Beckett, Schilling, Papelbon and Wakefield. 1-5 there aint none.

Detroit, Yankees when the Rocket goes back :P

PappaCSkillz22 · 20-12-2006 3:57pm

Your answers are getting worse, not better. You seem obsessed with home runs given up, so what, plenty of decent pitchers give up plenty of home runs, it happens. Your statistics are ridiculous. Wakefield has had some very good years, allot better than the stat you came up with.

Myself and indeed the Red Sox front office will take Becketts 16-11 any day of the week, and Matsuzaka is a proven pitcher. To say otherwise is simple minded. As for Papelbon, next year will be his third.

The Sox bullpen is fine thanks, they will add a closer and at that stage Timlin, Donnelly, Romero, Hansen and Manny Delcarmen and friends, yep, even Tavarez, will be more than enough quality arms.

The Sox will finish 20 games ahead of your 'Texas Rangers Lite Blue Jays' in '07, and the worst part is, you know it.

zuutroy · 20-12-2006 4:58pm

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

Your statistics are ridiculous. Wakefield has had some very good years, allot better than the stat you came up with.

They're not mine...there the ones put up by your hopeless heroes!!!

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

Myself and indeed the Red Sox front office will take Becketts 16-11 any day of the week,

The dog in the street will tell you that wins are a meaningless stat. Ask Roger Clemens after his time in Houston.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

and Matsuzaka is a proven pitcher.

Not in the league in question. There are plenty of Japanese flops. Nomo and Kaz Matsui were 'proven' players too.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

As for Papelbon, next year will be his third.

Well he qualified as a rookie last year, I meant his 2nd full year.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

The Sox bullpen is fine thanks, they will add a closer and at that stage Timlin, Donnelly, Romero, Hansen and Manny Delcarmen and friends, yep, even Tavarez, will be more than enough quality arms.

Where this closer gonna come from?! And were these quality arms you speak of responsible for the worst bullpen ERA last year? They were close anyway.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

The Sox will finish 20 games ahead of your 'Texas Rangers Lite Blue Jays' in '07, and the worst part is, you know it.

So the Jays add Frank Thomas, and Boston adds D-Mat, and this is supposed to invoke a 22 game turn-around in the standings and you say MY answers are getting worse?

PappaCSkillz22 · 21-12-2006 11:33am

zuutroy wrote:

So the Jays add Frank Thomas, and Boston adds D-Mat, and this is supposed to invoke a 22 game turn-around in the standings and you say MY answers are getting worse?

So, you are allowed drink at work, is it?

You have come out with some serious rubbish, a massively incorrect quote on Wakefields best year, calling one of the AL's best pitchers statistically 'over the hill' and saying batters have 'figured out' Jon Papelbon.

Matsuzaka, Papelbon in the rotation, a full year in the AL under Varitek's tutelage for Beckett and more pieces for the bullpen like Brendan Donnelly, and yes, the Sox will challenge the Yankees for the AL East title and wipe the floor with the Blue Jays, no matter how many fat, balding, washed up DH's they add.

zuutroy · 21-12-2006 1:29pm

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

So, you are allowed drink at work, is it?

Yes actually....good ol' Belgium...beer in the canteen fridge!

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

You have come out with some serious rubbish, a massively incorrect quote on Wakefields best year, calling one of the AL's best pitchers statistically 'over the hill' and saying batters have 'figured out' Jon Papelbon.

There's nothing massivley incorrect...they're just the stats. He was outside the top 50 in ERA and WHIP, not one of the AL's best pitchers statistically in ANY category.
As for Papelbon I said I think they 'will' figure him out. Not saying he's gonna be useless just dont expect and ERA under 1,2,or 3 if he moves into the rotation.

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

Matsuzaka, Papelbon in the rotation, a full year in the AL under Varitek's tutelage for Beckett

Do you remember his last start of the year, when he had as good as a full year of Variteks help...here's a reminder:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/boxscore?gid=260927102

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

and yes, the Sox will challenge the Yankees for the AL East title and wipe the floor with the Blue Jays, no matter how many fat, balding, washed up DH's they add.

I'm yet to be convinced that there's anything massively different this year. I notice you haven't addressed their hitting woes at all! Ortiz, Man Ram, Mike Lowell and a bunch of also rans (Eric Hinske hahaha!). Though the additions of Lugo and Drew might be useful.

Anyway, looks like we could argue until April and not resolve anything. Stick around so I can laugh as the D-rays do better than the Red Sox this year

PappaCSkillz22 · 21-12-2006 1:58pm

zuutroy wrote:

I notice you haven't addressed their hitting woes at all! Ortiz, Man Ram, Mike Lowell ....

I think you have summed up your commentary perfectly by including Big Pappi (!) and Manny Ramirez in a sentence about hitting woes

Keep up the good work

zuutroy · 21-12-2006 3:59pm

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

I think you have summed up your commentary perfectly by including Big Pappi (!) and Manny Ramirez in a sentence about hitting woes

Keep up the good work

You know I meant them as the exception. ie. they're the only ones that are reliable.

PappaCSkillz22 · 21-12-2006 4:05pm

zuutroy wrote:

You know I meant them as the exception. ie. they're the only ones that are reliable.

Lugo, Crisp, Pappi, Ramirez, Drew, Lowell, Varitek, Wily Mo, Pedroia, Youkilis and co make the Blue Jays look like a AAA team.

Stick to the point though. Matsuzaka, great addition to the Red Sox rotation as World Championship MVP, except in Belgium, where, apparently,Curt Schilling is 'over the hill'...

zuutroy · 21-12-2006 4:14pm

We'll see, is all I've left so say....We'll see :rolleyes:

zuutroy · 05-04-2007 10:12pm

Very impressive debut. One performance against a quality line-up and I'll be convinced!

free2fly · 09-04-2007 6:08pm

I've yet to decide if he will be worth the money. Though he did pitch well in his first start. I think he has the advantage that no one here has batted against him. But who knows what will happen when the batters become familiar with the way he pitches. Fingers crossed I guess. And for the record his nickname here in Boston is Dice kay. Not very creative I admit

cpk · 10-04-2007 12:20am

Dicek is a formidable SP. He'll be a top 10 pitcher for the year most likely. He had a great first game for the Red Sox. And due to the training regiment that exists in Japan he'll be a low injury risk compared to the pampering that goes on in the US.

Some keep refering to him as a rookie, although technically right, this guy is pro all the way.

On a side note, a fantasy league I'm in had dicek drafted as a first pick. That's ridiculous. I don't even think Santana is worth a first pick.... second maybe.

PappaCSkillz22 · 10-04-2007 8:55am

free2fly wrote:

I've yet to decide if he will be worth the money. Though he did pitch well in his first start. I think he has the advantage that no one here has batted against him. But who knows what will happen when the batters become familiar with the way he pitches. Fingers crossed I guess. And for the record his nickname here in Boston is Dice kay. Not very creative I admit

A: ''I think he has the advantage that no one here has batted against him.''
I think he had the advantage because his stuff is silly good

B: ''And for the record his nickname here in Boston is Dice kay. Not very creative I admit''
That's how his first name is actually pronounced in Japan

free2fly · 10-04-2007 1:14pm

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

A: ''I think he has the advantage that no one here has batted against him.''
I think he had the advantage because his stuff is silly good

B: ''And for the record his nickname here in Boston is Dice kay. Not very creative I admit''
That's how his first name is actually pronounced in Japan

Well, I am reserving judgement until I actuall see him pitch a few times. Hey, I'm from Boston I can't help being a bit sceptical

I know that's how his name is pronounced, thus the "not very creative" comment.

PappaCSkillz22 · 10-04-2007 2:05pm

free2fly wrote:

I know that's how his name is pronounced, thus the "not very creative" comment.

I would love to understand, anyway, the US sports media's absolute fascination with nicknaming players. Can they not just call him Matsuzaka?

free2fly · 10-04-2007 5:34pm

PappaCSkillz22 wrote:

I would love to understand, anyway, the US sports media's absolute fascination with nicknaming players. Can they not just call him Matsuzaka?

I don't have an answer for that I'm afraid. I agree with you. It does tend to be annoying.

Redsoxfan · 10-06-2007 11:33pm

So far, I am fairly underwhelmed. He's been getting good run support, but he is struggling to maintain his No. 3 status among Sox starters (and we haven't seen Lester yet this season). He seems to have good stuff, but he shows a lack of control/wildness at times.

To be fair, it is his rookie MLB season. Will be interesting to see how he performs if (;) ) the Sox make the playoffs.

cpk · 05-07-2007 2:30pm

Still unsure what people expected from him. He is having a geat season and is getting better. He's currently ranked 67th overall in yahoo.

He has 10 wins, a CG, 119K over 114.2 innings. He'll continue to work off his ERA (currently 3.53) and probably lower his WHIP (1.19). And all this in his rookie year in US baseball.

There will always be bumps in any year for any pitcher (I own Ben Sheets and the nasty Lincecum) but dicek has more than proven himself. I'll have him in my sights for next year's fantasy draft.

Who the hell wouldn't ?!!

Redsoxfan · 06-07-2007 7:09pm

A huge improvement since I last posted!

how do you rate Daisuke Matsuzaka

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