Question regarding motor tax Ireland

Dazza123 · 05-02-2017 3:19pm #1

Can I tax a motor vehicle using the policy number of another insured car or does it have to be linked to the car I am wanting to tax ?

Regards
Darren

Voodoomelon · 05-02-2017 3:21pm

You can write 12345678 in the policy field if you like, it makes no difference at all.

Toyotafanboi · 05-02-2017 3:21pm

I'm suposed to be for the car you are taxing but in reality you can enter anything in that box and continue to tax the car.

Agricola · 05-02-2017 3:27pm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You can write 12345678 in the policy field if you like, it makes no difference at all.

I went into the motor tax office last time to tax a car. Didnt have the insurance details with me to fill in on the form and the one behind the counter wouldnt accept it til I went out to my car and took it down off the windscreen!

So I could have written anything and it's never checked?

Voodoomelon · 05-02-2017 3:30pm

Correct, she just wanted you to write something down. Providing that information is supposed to add your details to an insurance database, when in fact said database is utterly useless to the Gardai or anyone else as nothing is linked into it and it often provides bogus information.

Dazza123 · 05-02-2017 4:02pm

Ok because i am having a hard time getting insurance in a range rover i recently bought.
My plan is to get insured in a smaller engine car with a 3rd party extension to allow me to drive other cars with permission of owner which are taxed and tested. Range rover will be put in my partner's name.
So would i be wise to put the policy number from the small car i ensure when I'm taxing the range rover or just go with a made up number ?

Thanks guys.

Voodoomelon · 05-02-2017 4:12pm

Can't advise you regarding that or recommend you do it either, insurance companies are very wise to this kind of thing, if they discover the RR is primarily driven by you in the event of a claim, they will not cover you and could potentially sue you for any costs arising from an accident you may cause.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 05-02-2017 4:15pm

Dazza123 wrote: »

Ok because i am having a hard time getting insurance in a range rover i recently bought.
My plan is to get insured in a smaller engine car with a 3rd party extension to allow me to drive other cars with permission of owner which are taxed and tested. Range rover will be put in my partner's name.
So would i be wise to put the policy number from the small car i ensure when I'm taxing the range rover or just go with a made up number ?

Thanks guys.

Put the number of the policy that covers you to drive the car on the tax form.

Driving on your 3rd party extension means you won't have an insurance disc on your windscreen and so you run the risk of an on the spot fine for no insurance displayed.

coylemj · 05-02-2017 4:34pm

Agricola wrote: »

I went into the motor tax office last time to tax a car. Didnt have the insurance details with me to fill in on the form and the one behind the counter wouldnt accept it til I went out to my car and took it down off the windscreen!

So I could have written anything and it's never checked?

Yes. When you renew in person, the counter clerk needs to see the insurance paperwork, the online system has no way of verifying if it's a genuine policy number or not so you can type in any old rubbish.

coylemj · 05-02-2017 4:38pm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Can't advise you regarding that or recommend you do it either, insurance companies are very wise to this kind of thing, if they discover the RR is primarily driven by you in the event of a claim, they will not cover you and could potentially sue you for any costs arising from an accident you may cause.

+1 it's known as 'fronting' and typically involves a young driver buying a car, registering it in the Mammy's name and getting themselves on her policy as a named driver. What the OP is proposing isn't much different as far as the insurance business is concerned.

irisheddie85 · 05-02-2017 4:38pm

Some 3rd party extionsuon policies say the other vehicle can't be owned by your partner or boss. Be careful of the wording on the policy before you go this.

Also you won't have a legitimate insurance disk for the range rover screen which is an offence in and of itself.

MackMack · 05-02-2017 5:45pm

Doesn't the driving other cars bit require the third party car to actually be insured as well though? Didn't think it covered other cars that weren't insured.

icjzfmq7ewon1t · 05-02-2017 5:59pm

MackMack wrote:

Doesn't the driving other cars bit require the third party car to actually be insured as well though? Didn't think it covered other cars that weren't insured.

This old chestnut. I've never seen a policy that stipulated that and I've seen a fair few.

quadrifoglio verde · 05-02-2017 6:05pm

Dazza123 wrote: »

Ok because i am having a hard time getting insurance in a range rover i recently bought.
My plan is to get insured in a smaller engine car with a 3rd party extension to allow me to drive other cars with permission of owner which are taxed and tested. Range rover will be put in my partner's name.
So would i be wise to put the policy number from the small car i ensure when I'm taxing the range rover or just go with a made up number ?

Thanks guys.

Well then you'd definitely be screwed in an accident.
They'd know straight away it was yours if they can get access to that data. Perhaps they can't, but I wouldn't leave a trail.
Put it in parents name. Pay tax with parents cars. Repay parents with cash.

Dazza123 · 05-02-2017 6:32pm

coylemj wrote: »

+1 it's known as 'fronting' and typically involves a young driver buying a car, registering it in the Mammy's name and getting themselves on her policy as a named driver. What the OP is proposing isn't much different as far as the insurance business is concerned.

Its not the route i want to go down but if nothing can be done otherwise its the route i may have to take. It is not quite fronting.
These companies bend us over and screw us year after year why cant we do the same to them !!

Voodoomelon · 05-02-2017 6:35pm

You'll not be screwing them, you'll be screwing yourself. Personally I'd hate to be paying even a cent of insurance, and know there's a possibility that they won't pay out come claim time.
If this is the case, what's the point?

05-02-2017 6:38pm

Dazza123 wrote: »

Its not the route i want to go down but if nothing can be done otherwise its the route i may have to take. It is not quite fronting.
These companies bend us over and screw us year after year why cant we do the same to them !!

You've never had insurance here, when did they ever screw you?

Dazza123 · 05-02-2017 6:38pm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You'll not be screwing them, you'll be screwing yourself.

Im fully aware of only having 3rd party on the RR, It's only to get me past the cops if need be. I have dogs and need a reliable 4X4 its the reason i bought the range, i don't want to be driving some ****ty 4x4 that cant make it up a steep hill

Dazza123 · 05-02-2017 6:39pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You've never had insurance here, when did they ever screw you?

Theyre screwing everybody, what percent did your insurance go up this year for no apparent reason ? Premiums were raised as much as 20 percent last year for no reason only fools causing accidents on the road costing everybody hard earned money.

Voodoomelon · 05-02-2017 6:44pm

I mean you'd be screwed if ever you're the cause of an accident and they refuse to payout. You could be personally liable for hundreds of thousands. Worse case and all that, but your life would ruined.

uck51js9zml2yt · 05-02-2017 6:44pm

Remember that when filling in the tax form and signing it you are signing a legal document.
The guards do check these occasionally and if you've given bogus information , you're screwed!

MojoMaker · 05-02-2017 7:08pm

Every car driven on the road legally requires a valid insurance disc in the window with the reg of that car displayed on it. This is fine if you borrow your mates car and he is showing his disc in the window, however in your case the RR will never have an insurance disk in the window and you'll be done if you're caught. Once you're caught a can of worms will open and it will be looked at in a lot more detail, up to and including AGS advising your insurance company.

Think long and hard about doing this, the downside is significant.

Marcusm · 05-02-2017 8:59pm

Dazza123 wrote: »

Ok because i am having a hard time getting insurance in a range rover i recently bought.
My plan is to get insured in a smaller engine car with a 3rd party extension to allow me to drive other cars with permission of owner which are taxed and tested. Range rover will be put in my partner's name.
So would i be wise to put the policy number from the small car i ensure when I'm taxing the range rover or just go with a made up number ?

Thanks guys.

You have a significant issue here which is that you are proposing to carry out a fraud and you have already laid the groundwork for a prosecution by seeking insurance for it in your own name in the first instance. The fact that your partner equally won't have it insured is further support. Realistically this is not just illegal but it's also taking the rest of us (who will have to pick up the cost of any accident) as gobshįtes.

Marcusm · 05-02-2017 9:02pm

coylemj wrote: »

+1 it's known as 'fronting' and typically involves a young driver buying a car, registering it in the Mammy's name and getting themselves on her policy as a named driver. What the OP is proposing isn't much different as far as the insurance business is concerned.

This is not even fronting, it's simple fraud. With fronting, the insurer gets, at least, to assess whether they want to take on the insured car. In this case, there will not be any policy covering the car at all. At least it won't last long as the absence of an insurance disc will likely be picked up at some stage.

coylemj · 05-02-2017 9:11pm

MackMack wrote: »

Doesn't the driving other cars bit require the third party car to actually be insured as well though? Didn't think it covered other cars that weren't insured.

Monica Dirty Surface wrote: »

This old chestnut. I've never seen a policy that stipulated that and I've seen a fair few.

No longer an urban myth, some companies have started to introduce that condition for cover under 'driving other cars'.

icjzfmq7ewon1t · 05-02-2017 10:33pm

What companies ? Have you actually seen a policy with that wording in it.

coylemj · 05-02-2017 10:54pm

Monica Dirty Surface wrote: »

What companies ? Have you actually seen a policy with that wording in it.

Yes, at least two of them. Believe me, I was as p1ssed off with the old myth that kept getting repeated here but it's now true for some policies. The OP's situtation tells you that it's probably a necessary condition. The other one is that a lot of insurance companies are now extending fully comp cover to driving other cars as a loyalty bonus and that condition being inserted in the policy stops that facility from being abused.

Edit....

Axa, no such condition
Aviva......

In the section 'Driving other cars' on p.17.... this cover will only apply if....

4. a current certificate of insurance has been issued and remains in force on the Private car being driven under the Driving other cars cover provided;

http://www.aviva.ie/media-library/MotorCare-Policy-Booklet.pdf

galwaytt · 06-02-2017 4:35pm

Dazza123 wrote: »

Im fully aware of only having 3rd party on the RR, It's only to get me past the cops if need be. I have dogs and need a reliable 4X4 its the reason i bought the range, i don't want to be driving some ****ty 4x4 that cant make it up a steep hill

..you actually won't have 3rd Party on the RR, as the premise you are attempting to insure it under is false. You will actually have no insurance at all, but are merely doing this as you admit yourself, to get a tax disc.

And as for "need a reliable 4X4 ", lolz, dunno what you bought an RR for at all then........

icjzfmq7ewon1t · 07-02-2017 12:32am

coylemj wrote:

Aviva......

coylemj wrote:

In the section 'Driving other cars' on p.17.... this cover will only apply if....

coylemj wrote:

4. a current certificate of insurance has been issued and remains in force on the Private car being driven under the Driving other cars cover provided;

But have you actually seen it written into the policy document. I know a couple of people insured with Aviva and there's no such proviso in the policy wording. Don't know what's in their handbook I haven't seen them.

CiniO · 07-02-2017 1:18am

Everyone seems to be attacking OP for his cunning plan, and calling it a fraud.
But I don't think that's the case. It's just how insurance system works here.

I used to do the same for a while good few years ago, and AFAIK it was all above board.

I had a car which was registered and insured in my name, and my wife added as named driver - so we could both drive it.
Then we had another car, which was registered in my wife's name, but not insured at all.
However my own policy covered me to drive other cars (which didn't belong to me), so I could drive the other car.
So on days we both needed to use the car, my wife was using our main car which had policy on it, and I was using other one without policy, using my "driving other cars" extension.
All was fully OK, and insurer couldn't do anything about it, as it was all in line with their policy terms and conditions.

We abandoned doing that though, as it was impractical.

However what OP is planning to do, looks pretty much the same to me, and I can't see where fraud bit is coming from.

testicles · 07-02-2017 6:14am

This post has been deleted.

Question regarding motor tax Ireland

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