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Residential tenancies bill 2016 proposals and discussion

2456712

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,723 ✭✭✭Villa05


    For tenants- this is yet another of those 'be careful what you wish for, you just might get it' moments.......... Calling it the law of unintended consequences doesn't even begin to elaborate on the Pandora's box the proposed legislation will unfurl on the sector.............


    Bang on., this is for very wealthy institutional investment firms and we are fast approaching a monopoly scenario in the rental market. Again many people are oblivious to what is going on and how it will effect them

    Further fuel for a bubble in our high demand areas

    Coveney was on Kenny this week and pointing the finger at everything except current government policy which is a large part of the problem both in rental and buying markets


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    Apparently senior figures of Fine Gael are showing more caution than Coveney:
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coveney-s-rental-strategy-faces-resistance-from-within-fine-gael-1.2892918
    "A number of Government sources said that, given the level of State interventions in the housing sector over the past two years or so, it may not be desirable to make further dramatic, market-altering moves."
    "It is claimed that the emerging indicators point to increased supply from 2017 and that this would help solve the housing and rental crisis. The changes already announced to increase housing supply should be allowed do their work, some sources said."
    "Government figures are also wary that any pre-emptive flagging of the measures in Mr Coveney’s new strategy could affect the market and could tempt landowners to make changes before the policies kick in."
    Maybe someone in government is thinking about the massive negative side effects of this further meddling by politicians in a market that is already very messed up: time will tell.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 773 ✭✭✭seklly




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭mahoganygas


    Rent controls, in the long term are detrimental to the market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Rental rates effectively frozen? What does that mean, sure they can still go up 12% over the next three years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭nhunter100


    Rent controls, in the long term are detrimental to the market.


    They work well in Berlin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    If anything rent controls will only increase demand in the areas that the controls apply.

    There is some merit in it as a short-term measure in a housing crisis, as it ultimately means less people being forced out by increasing rents.

    Most of the current homeless issue is not about a lack of housing, but a lack of housing where people want to live. Joe Bloggs is living in Rialto and gets forced out by increasing rents. He wants to live in Rialto, but can now only afford to live in Leixlip. So he goes on the housing list.

    Boo-hoo you might say, but this is the issue at the heart of our housing crisis. If you freeze rents, then Joe can stay in Rialto and the person who would have taken his place will find somewhere else to live because they're more flexible.

    Ultimately it will cause rents outside the "freeze" areas to go up disproportionately. Which means there's a bad chance of housing bubble mark 2 kicking in.

    This should be part of a portfolio of measures to address the housing crisis and not a stopgap measure in isolation. On its own it won't improve anything in the long-term.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Restricting soaring rents- does absolutely nothing whatsoever for the housing crisis.

    We do not urgently need restrictions on soaring rents (which are moderating in Dublin and Cork- as they are simply unaffordable at this stage)- we urgently need supply- vast quantities of supply- of a reasonable size, a good standard- and where people want to live. Its not rocket science- the issue is the complete and utter lack of supply. Rent controls will do precisely nothing to address this obvious issue- if anything it will simply mean landlords will be more likely to use whatever implements at their disposal to make tenancies as short as possible- in order to minimise the periods they are locked into rents that might be below market rates.

    We need large quantities of new supply- where people want to live- and of a size and standard that people won't view them as 'starter homes' that will have to be sold and traded up to larger dwellings- if/when they start a family.

    The Minister's proposals are a short-term, knee-jerk reaction- that is going to make him look like a folk hero to a small cohort of people- however, medium term the self same cohort of people are going to discover that its yet another case of 'be careful what you wish for, you just might get it'. Its not even the law of unintended consequences here- the consequences are so bloody obvious- yet, the political expediency of this short term measure mean that providing the Minister is not around to have to pick up the pieces when it all blows up- he will sell it as a success..........

    Is there an election for FG leadership on the horizon that Mr. Coveney is angling for? Seems to me to be the only thing that makes sense..........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Where's the 12% people are mentioning coming from, are they just going "less than 5" means 4 and over 3 years that 12%?

    The 2 year still applies so, would it not be 8% over 4 years.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,550 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    We do not urgently need restrictions on soaring rents (which are moderating in Dublin and Cork- as they are simply unaffordable at this stage)- we urgently need supply- vast quantities of supply- of a reasonable size, a good standard- and where people want to live. Its not rocket science- the issue is the complete and utter lack of supply. Rent controls will do precisely nothing to address this obvious issue- if anything it will simply mean landlords will be more likely to use whatever implements at their disposal to make tenancies as short as possible- in order to minimise the periods they are locked into rents that might be below market rates.

    What would the landlords say if the government did decide to build all the houses needed? Wouldn't that drop the sale value and rental value of their asset? Do they actually want more competition for their property? Standards of older properties would need to improve to compete with the new ones.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Squall Leonhart


    Varik wrote: »
    Where's the 12% people are mentioning coming from, are they just going "less than 5" means 4 and over 3 years that 12%?

    The 2 year still applies so, would it not be 8% over 4 years.

    From what I heard on the radio this morning, the 2 year period reduces to 1 year in designated 'pressure zones' and rents can be increased annually at a max increase of 4%


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    It's starting to look less and less likely that the nuclear scenario of landlords leaving the market in droves will ever come about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    From what I heard on the radio this morning, the 2 year period reduces to 1 year in designated 'pressure zones' and rents can be increased annually at a max increase of 4%

    Did you hear if that 1 year only applies to the existing properties who this is meant to apply to as new properties aren't affected so they'd still be 2 years.
    It's starting to look less and less likely that the nuclear scenario of landlords leaving the market in droves will ever come about.

    Already happening, quick google would tell you that. Focus Ireland calling it almost as big an issue as rent increase for homelessness.

    Add to that this is another major change to the rental market, whatever about leaving the market who'd be mad enough to enter it when there's as likely to be another change in 2017.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭senordingdong


    Varik wrote: »

    Already happening, quick google would tell you that. Focus Ireland calling it almost as big an issue as rent increase for homelessness.

    Add to that this is another major change to the rental market, whatever about leaving the market who'd be mad enough to enter it when there's as likely to be another change in 2017.
    So many are leaving because it isn't financially viable/rewarding, and the solution is to tighten the reigns. Ofcourse.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,518 ✭✭✭matrim


    So many are leaving because it isn't financially viable/rewarding, and the solution is to tighten the reigns. Ofcourse.

    If it's not financially viable at a time when when rents are at an all time high, and tenants are barely able to afford them, then when will it be viable?

    If the government (or market or whatever) increase supply, rents will go down. So will it still be unviable or will it suddenly be that landlords will find a way to maximise their profit?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,929 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I had a skim through the report this morning so I stand to be corrected, but isn't there some exemption whereby housing that has been newly renovated or vacant is not affected by this.

    I can see it now.. "oh I'm renovating the place so you have to go". Give it a bit of paint and maybe change the couch.. back on the market top price


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭draiochtanois


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭AlanG


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    They work well in Berlin.

    Only for people who are lucky enough to have a place. Rent controls lock out new arrivals and make it difficult to enter the market. Berlin is often quoted as a great rental market but that has changed dramatically in the last few years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    nhunter100 wrote: »
    They work well in Berlin.
    Huge LOL from me. I live in Berlin. There is a massive housing shortage here and rent controlled apartments get little to no maintenance and coal fired heating on the 5th floor is both legal and not a seldom occurrence.

    The ONLY solution to a housing shortage is to provide more housing.

    This measure will do one thing for sure. It will remove more landlords from the market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    murphaph wrote: »
    It will remove more landlords from the market.

    So hopefully that will mean more houses for sale? People keep saying this as if the house will just disappear.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    matrim wrote: »
    If it's not financially viable at a time when when rents are at an all time high, and tenants are barely able to afford them, then when will it be viable?

    If the government (or market or whatever) increase supply, rents will go down. So will it still be unviable or will it suddenly be that landlords will find a way to maximise their profit?

    This is the part i just dont get, and i have to really squint my eyes at it specifically when you have a moderate landlord going on about it.

    Whatever about some of the less than desirable taxes on landlords earnings, it just doesnt add up that its not a business one can make money in specifically when some other investments are not performing anywhere near as well.

    I mean with good tenants there isnt a huge downside if you are anyway on the ball.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I had a skim through the report this morning so I stand to be corrected, but isn't there some exemption whereby housing that has been newly renovated or vacant is not affected by this.

    I can see it now.. "oh I'm renovating the place so you have to go". Give it a bit of paint and maybe change the couch.. back on the market top price

    The property will have to been vacant so I can't imagine many landlords would get away with this.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Lux23 wrote: »
    So hopefully that will mean more houses for sale? People keep saying this as if the house will just disappear.

    People keep saying it because it is entirely relevant to anyone that's trying to rent one of the diminishing number of rental properties. Shifting supply from the rental market to the homeowner market does nothing to increase supply.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    matrim wrote: »
    If it's not financially viable at a time when when rents are at an all time high, and tenants are barely able to afford them, then when will it be viable?

    If the government (or market or whatever) increase supply, rents will go down. So will it still be unviable or will it suddenly be that landlords will find a way to maximise their profit?

    Landlords/investors are playing in the same property pool as everyone else. Lack of supply means the acquisition costs of the properties are very high for all.

    An all-time-high rent is not an indicator of a landlords profit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,104 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Graham wrote: »
    Landlords/investors are playing in the same property pool as everyone else. Lack of supply means the acquisition costs of the properties are very high for all.

    An all-time-high rent is not an indicator of a landlords profit.

    *New Landlords / Investors.

    Where is the cut off point so to speak do we really want the percentage of the housing stock to keep going into these hands?

    The problems here are multifaceted i suppose everyone can agree. And the single lined approach the government have been taking so far is not helpful.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    Lux23 wrote: »
    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I had a skim through the report this morning so I stand to be corrected, but isn't there some exemption whereby housing that has been newly renovated or vacant is not affected by this.

    I can see it now.. "oh I'm renovating the place so you have to go". Give it a bit of paint and maybe change the couch.. back on the market top price
    The property will have to been vacant so I can't imagine many landlords would get away with this.
    The landlords will just stop putting money into maintenance.

    Rental controls will reduce the supply as tenants won't move as often, which will drive up the prices on properties that do become available. Existing landlords will then see that they are now getting way below market rate on their properties, so they won't put anything into maintaining or upgrading them. They have no incentive to keep the tenant in the place - the opposite really. If the tenant gets fed up with living in a dump and leaves, they can increase the rent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 773 ✭✭✭seklly


    In this country once a tenant gets the keys it's virtually impossible to remove them without having it drag on for months/years. One thing we need is proper eviction processes where a court order can be issued and the tenant can be quickly evicted by bailiffs (like the current UK process). This could help ease the supply problem.

    Of course we also need to increase supply by building (up as well as out) with more long term planning/strategy from government.

    Rent controls are not the answer in my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    How long before some politican suggests decentralisation, the program should have never stopped, there's still plenty of unused land the government bought that's sitting idle.
    Jobs out of Dublin is never going to go down well but something has to give.
    Either that or a proper intercity train service, Limerick to Dublin in under an hour..it's only a little island it shouldn't be so hard to commute to anywhere on the island.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    More piece-meal knee jerk reactionary politics. Fu*kin awesome. This country never learns.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Zulu wrote: »
    More piece-meal knee jerk reactionary politics. Fu*kin awesome. This country never learns.

    House for sale soon in Rochestown Cork if anyone is interested ðŸ˜


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Seanachai


    Restricting soaring rents- does absolutely nothing whatsoever for the housing crisis.

    We do not urgently need restrictions on soaring rents (which are moderating in Dublin and Cork- as they are simply unaffordable at this stage)- we urgently need supply- vast quantities of supply- of a reasonable size, a good standard- and where people want to live. Its not rocket science- the issue is the complete and utter lack of supply. Rent controls will do precisely nothing to address this obvious issue- if anything it will simply mean landlords will be more likely to use whatever implements at their disposal to make tenancies as short as possible- in order to minimise the periods they are locked into rents that might be below market rates.

    We need large quantities of new supply- where people want to live- and of a size and standard that people won't view them as 'starter homes' that will have to be sold and traded up to larger dwellings- if/when they start a family.

    The Minister's proposals are a short-term, knee-jerk reaction- that is going to make him look like a folk hero to a small cohort of people- however, medium term the self same cohort of people are going to discover that its yet another case of 'be careful what you wish for, you just might get it'. Its not even the law of unintended consequences here- the consequences are so bloody obvious- yet, the political expediency of this short term measure mean that providing the Minister is not around to have to pick up the pieces when it all blows up- he will sell it as a success..........

    Is there an election for FG leadership on the horizon that Mr. Coveney is angling for? Seems to me to be the only thing that makes sense..........

    Is the lack of building down to resistance from the developers/builders, or are they waiting for the state to cough up the money for social housing? Surely they can't be sorting through red tape for this length of time?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    listermint wrote: »
    *New Landlords / Investors.

    Where is the cut off point so to speak do we really want the percentage of the housing stock to keep going into these hands?

    Yes. We absolutely need a percentage of new housing stock to meet the increasing demands of the rental sector.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    How long before some politican suggests decentralisation, the program should have never stopped, there's still plenty of unused land the government bought that's sitting idle.
    Jobs out of Dublin is never going to go down well but something has to give.
    Either that or a proper intercity train service, Limerick to Dublin in under an hour..it's only a little island it shouldn't be so hard to commute to anywhere on the island.

    Decentralisation of what though?
    Over half the civil service is not based in Dublin (it was as high as 69% decentralised- however, its dropped back towards 58% decentralised in recent years).
    Do you want to move the public facilities and amenities from Dublin elsewhere- or what have you in mind?

    People have it in their heads that there is an unfair preponderance of public sector posts and/or amenities and facilities in the Dublin area- when if you actually enumerated it- its not actually the case.

    The short and simple is- people want to live in our major urban areas.
    Telling them they have to move to Carrick-on-Shannon (as an example) or elsewhere- because there are vacant housing units there- whereas there are none in West Dublin- simply doesn't address the problem- on the contrary, it creates whole new issues.

    We need significant and ongoing delivery of reasonably sized, well built dwelling units in our major urban areas- and what would help towards this- is an immediate abolition of our restriction on building heights.

    We need to ensure all future housing is of such a size and standard- that the whole concept of a 'starter home' is relegated to history- as we have far too many families stuck in wholly inappropriate housing as-is- without going and condemning yet another generation to the crap many of us have had to deal with.

    Life is too short to keep making these self same mistakes, over and over, again and again.

    Its one thing to be risk averse- its quite another thing to condemn an entire generation to live in inappropriate housing in the perpetual hope that they can one day aspire to selling their 'starter home' and buy somewhere that actually suits their needs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,331 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Of Jobs, not just public service. Can't keep piling in jobs to Dublin and no where else.
    Not everyone wants to live in dublin, I even dread driving up these days the roads can't handle the amount of cars..it's not bursting at the seams, it already burst, driving into cork is getting as bad, galway is a complete mess for traffic.
    Sort out the dublin to Limerick rail line and you've opened up a lot of areas for housing commutable to Dublin daily.
    Dublin is going to get more and more inaccessible and expensive regardless of what ministers do. More housing isn't the answer, then you need more roads. It's proper public transport outside of Dublin to Dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Lux23 wrote: »
    So hopefully that will mean more houses for sale? People keep saying this as if the house will just disappear.
    On average rental properties house more people than owner occupied ones because so many rentals are house shares involving couples. The 3 bed semi housing 3 couples gets sold to a family of four or even five and that's one less bed space and a family of five would likely be looking for a 4 bed anyway, which could be a house share of 8 people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The landlords will just stop putting money into maintenance.

    Rental controls will reduce the supply as tenants won't move as often, which will drive up the prices on properties that do become available. Existing landlords will then see that they are now getting way below market rate on their properties, so they won't put anything into maintaining or upgrading them. They have no incentive to keep the tenant in the place - the opposite really. If the tenant gets fed up with living in a dump and leaves, they can increase the rent.
    This is EXACTLY how it "works" in Berlin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,622 ✭✭✭Baby01032012


    Does anyone want to hazard s guess as to when this will take effect?

    I have an apartment grossly under rental market rate however I can't increase until July 2017 due to the 2 year rule. So if this new rule comes into play am I forced to limit my increase to 4% per year even if its current under market rate by 30% +?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Suite_Grundriss_3D-1024x814.jpg
    This new build studio flat is perfectly legal in Germany. It would be illegal in Dublin (no dual aspect and too small). This sort of thing suits so many people that do not need much space and certainly don't need a dual aspect. Allowing developers to build such units would alleviate the situation. But instead we get more nonsense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    ford2600 wrote: »
    House for sale soon in Rochestown Cork if anyone is interested ðŸ˜

    :confused:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Does anyone want to hazard s guess as to when this will take effect?

    I have an apartment grossly under rental market rate however I can't increase until July 2017 due to the 2 year rule. So if this new rule comes into play am I forced to limit my increase to 4% per year even if its current under market rate by 30% +?
    I'm in the same boat with a property that was last reviewed in summer 2015. The law if changed affect landlords in a totally arbitrary way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭newacc2015


    Of Jobs, not just public service. Can't keep piling in jobs to Dublin and no where else.
    Not everyone wants to live in dublin, I even dread driving up these days the roads can't handle the amount of cars..it's not bursting at the seams, it already burst, driving into cork is getting as bad, galway is a complete mess for traffic.
    Sort out the dublin to Limerick rail line and you've opened up a lot of areas for housing commutable to Dublin daily.
    Dublin is going to get more and more inaccessible and expensive regardless of what ministers do. More housing isn't the answer, then you need more roads. It's proper public transport outside of Dublin to Dublin.

    So the Government should resort to tell private companies where to locate their jobs now? I think you guess what Google or Facebook would tell the Government to do. The Government tells firm locating in Ireland, we will give you higher grants if you locate outside of Dublin. But none of the firms want to.

    Actually most people want to live in Dublin. I know this is something people outside of Dublin cant wrap their head around, but the IDA has been told by several firms no matter how much they pay their employees they will not locate outside of Dublin. Dublin is competing with top cities for jobs. It is Dublin, Amsterdam, Berlin etc. It not Lyon, Eindhoven, Limerick and Mannheim. If the jobs arent going to Dublin, they aren coming to Ireland

    Make Dubliners commute several hours a day from Limerick to Dublin? Why dont we just put them in a gulag instead? It will probably be less stressful on them.

    More high rise housing is the answer. Dubliners would love to live in nice 40 storey apartment blocks on a luas line to work. A lot of Americans living in cities live in high rise love them over a 2 hour commute each way from a hole of a city.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Does anyone want to hazard s guess as to when this will take effect?

    I have an apartment grossly under rental market rate however I can't increase until July 2017 due to the 2 year rule. So if this new rule comes into play am I forced to limit my increase to 4% per year even if its current under market rate by 30% +?
    The government doesn't seem to understand that it's only encouraging you to kick out your current tenants, and start a new lease at the market rate.

    One more family/person(s) on the market driving up prices...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Well if you did that it would be an illegal eviction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Lux23 wrote: »
    Well if you did that it would be an illegal eviction.

    Yeah true, unless you were say planning on selling or had a family member you wanted to give it to...

    Sadly there's a real world out there where the Government are more and more encouraging citizens to bend or flatout break the rules.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    This new build studio flat is perfectly legal in Germany. It would be illegal in Dublin (no dual aspect and too small). This sort of thing suits so many people that do not need much space and certainly don't need a dual aspect. Allowing developers to build such units would alleviate the situation. But instead we get more nonsense.

    murphaph I have been banging on about this for ages. Out of interest, what sq m is the minimum in berlin?

    I currently rent, I have a big issue here with the housing crisis. But is it acceptable to tell people what they cant rent their properties for long term? I mean if this was a temporary measure for a few years, until the issues are sorted out and supply comes on stream, that would be fair enough. But the plan is a tinkering around the edge joke!

    I created a thread a few weeks back, the housing crisis here is being created on purpose as it simply benefits all of the vested interests, government, banks, newspapers, people in negative equity and the IDIOTS who think never ending house price rises are a good thing!

    One thing is for sure, this issue has been debated to death, the answers are simple yet these GOMBEEN MORONS seem to have no issue in sorting out the crisis!

    They allow these far smaller units in the UK and Germany, two countries that are infinitely better run than our own and our shower of gob****es think they know better...

    murphaph out of interest in berlin, what is causing the big issues with the rental market there? They allow mid to high rise and way smaller units, two of the big issue that need addressing here...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,292 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Seanachai wrote: »
    Is the lack of building down to resistance from the developers/builders, or are they waiting for the state to cough up the money for social housing? Surely they can't be sorting through red tape for this length of time?

    Four years ago rents were falling! Nobody would build in those conditions. Nobody would put up finance for building in that scenario. Nobody would assemble sites for building. Now there are few sites shovel ready and there is a shortage of finance available for building. The government can borrow to build because of the ECB, the banks cant lend to build because they are broke and cant afford another meltdown. Meantime this nonsense is going on. The lunatics have definitely taken over the asylum.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    I said it before I'll say it again.

    Everything is being done to take away the power of the Irish landlord.. Why is this happening and who does it benefit in the long run.

    It started with house tax, so everybody has to pay for every property they own.

    Those with 2or 3 properties feeling the pinch of finances have to let them go. Somebody else will take it on, but by then the gov aided by its "consulting lobbyists" will formulate another plan to extract money thru some other means. Some H+S driven BS like a fire extinguisher needed in every room that needs to be examined every year, by a service company.
    Costing even more money.... So that person has to sell because its not worth dealing with all the hassle.

    Fast Forward a generation and we have a different type of landlord. A multinational company landlord to be exact. paying all these taxes and duties and costs. So the government have to only deal with them.

    Put it this way, its a lot easier to deal with 12 landlord companies instead of 100,000 single landlords.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Does anyone want to hazard s guess as to when this will take effect?

    I have an apartment grossly under rental market rate however I can't increase until July 2017 due to the 2 year rule. So if this new rule comes into play am I forced to limit my increase to 4% per year even if its current under market rate by 30% +?

    There are 155 amendments to the bill- but Damien English is brining it before the Dáil this afternoon, and the commencement date on it is next Monday the 19th of December. It is expected that both the government and opposition will support the measures.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    As soon as the Govt announce a new action
    The Government’s new rental strategy has been launched today. It will target areas with rising rents in Dublin and Cork with immediate effect, limiting rises in rent to 4% per year in these areas.

    we get this....

    http://www.thejournal.ie/tyrrelstown-residents-eviction-3136171-Dec2016/

    I wonder if this is repeated elsewhere but not being reported.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭Fian


    The Rental strategy is available here:

    http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/strategy_for_the_rental_sector_final.pdf

    The significant proposals are:
      Part IV tenancies to move to a 6 year duration rather than 4 year, as a first step towards indefinite duration. Dublin and Cork to be Rent Pressure Zones, other areas open to being designated. A cap of 4% annual increase to apply to all rents in rent pressure zones. This will apply to existing tenancies in respect of the period since the last rental increase. The cap will also apply to NEW tenancies based of rent under previous tenancy - so each accommodation will have a rent cap based on 4% anualised increase from the last point the rent was set. Existing freezes on rent review will run their course, when the first review is made under the new system in a rent pressure zone the reviews move to annual reviews capped at 4%

    4% increase per annum strikes me as a reasonable return.

    The main criticism I would have of the proposals is the fact that different accomodation will have different caps based on an accident of timing. So if a rent review took place recently then the 4% will build on something close to current market rent. If it has been almost two years since the last rent review then the 4% is locked into a base that is well below current market rents.

    All in all the proposals seem reasonable.


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