Can my neighbour build a boundary wall?

frankdolanjnr · 28-11-2016 5:54pm #1

Just wondering if anyone knows about the laws regarding boundary walls in Ireland.

THE CURRENT SITUATION
My neighbour had a 6ft high copper beach hedge on his side of the boundary and recently cut it down. (It extended over the boundary into my side but I didnt mind). When it came down we lost all of our privacy which sucks. But it was not our hedge so thats just the way it goes. Right now there is a small 4 foot high wire fence (with concrete posts) dividing my site from my neighbours, it is on the boundary of the two sites and has been there since before either of us owned our properties. It was under the hedge all of this time.

THE PROBLEM
My neighbour now wants to build a 6 foot high block wall on the boundary. I do not want a block wall on the boundary. I do not trust my neighbour based on previous experiences with him and I do not want to get involved in any project that involves us building a wall between our properties. I also do not want to get involved in having to pay for anything with him.

I plan to build a wooden fence on my side of the boundary a couple of inches in. I also plan on telling him he can build whatever he wants on his side, but I do not consent to anything being built on the boundary, I am 100% happy with the wire fence that is currently there.. I want to build my own fence on my side so that I can be 100% in control of my own privacy.

MY QUESTION
Is he legally allowed to build something on the boundary without my consent?

Gumbo · 28-11-2016 7:12pm

Why the hell would you object to someone else building a proper boundary wall at their expense?

Also, why the hell would you build a timber fence inside your boundary? Losing garden space for no good reason?

And lastly, why, just why?

frankdolanjnr · 28-11-2016 7:28pm

kceire wrote: »

Why the hell would you object to someone else building a proper boundary wall at their expense?

Also, why the hell would you build a timber fence inside your boundary? Losing garden space for no good reason?

And lastly, why, just why?

- Why the hell would you object to someone else building a proper boundary wall at their expense?

I dont want a block wall on the boundary, it out of keeping with all of the neighbours gardens which are a mix of wooden fences and hedging. Since the hedge got removed, the boundary is now very unsightly and I dont believe he will build the wall for over a year or more due to it being tied to a planning application he is putting in to extend his house. I want to fix the problem now and not have to depend on him.

= Also, why the hell would you build a timber fence inside your boundary? Losing garden space for no good reason?

We are talking about inches here on a fairly big site. Its not an issue for me.

listermint · 28-11-2016 7:31pm

frankdolanjnr wrote: »

- Why the hell would you object to someone else building a proper boundary wall at their expense?

I dont want a block wall on the boundary, it out of keeping with all of the neighbours gardens which are a mix of wooden fences and hedging. Since the hedge got removed, the boundary is now very unsightly and I dont believe he will build the wall for over a year or more due to it being tied to a planning application he is putting in to extend his house. I want to fix the problem now and not have to depend on him.

= Also, why the hell would you build a timber fence inside your boundary? Losing garden space for no good reason?

We are talking about inches here on a fairly big site. Its not an issue for me.

There's a fence there now.

And you can put fencing on the wall when it's done to make it look as you like.

Seems like objecting for the sake of it

frankdolanjnr · 28-11-2016 7:48pm

listermint wrote: »

There's a fence there now.

And you can put fencing on the wall when it's done to make it look as you like.

Seems like objecting for the sake of it

As mentioned above, I dont want a block wall, its out of keeping with how boundaries are done in the area. Also, I dont want to wait a year for him to get around to doing it, I want to fix the privacy issue now, by myself, on my own side. I dont want to have to depend on him getting around to doing it. The question was, can someone build something on the boundary without the other owners consent?

exaisle · 28-11-2016 8:02pm

No. He can build a wall up to but not over the boundary unless you consent.

If it's on his side, any problems arising (eg if it fell down) are his too.

frankdolanjnr · 28-11-2016 8:27pm

exaisle wrote: »

No. He can build a wall up to but not over the boundary unless you consent.

If it's on his side, any problems arising (eg if it fell down) are his too.

Thanks, hopefully this is the case. I dont mean to be causing trouble with them, but relations are not great and I just want to fix the problem for myself and not have to depend on them. They are free to do whatever they want on their own side.

GarIT · 28-11-2016 9:04pm

frankdolanjnr wrote: »

Thanks, hopefully this is the case. I dont mean to be causing trouble with them, but relations are not great and I just want to fix the problem for myself and not have to depend on them. They are free to do whatever they want on their own side.

I'm not sure why you are saying hopefully this is the case, all that means is the wall will be 5-10cm further away from you but still there.

Now onto some hopefully good advice. He can build whatever he likes as long as it is within planning regulations and does not cross the boundary. However you mentioned him playing a planning application if he includes this potential wall in his planning application you can object to it and you may or may not be successful. Other than that there is nothing you can do.

frankdolanjnr · 28-11-2016 9:55pm

GarIT wrote: »

I'm not sure why you are saying hopefully this is the case, all that means is the wall will be 5-10cm further away from you but still there.

Now onto some hopefully good advice. He can build whatever he likes as long as it is within planning regulations and does not cross the boundary. However you mentioned him playing a planning application if he includes this potential wall in his planning application you can object to it and you may or may not be successful. Other than that there is nothing you can do.

Thanks. I really don't care if he builds it or not, and I would not object to his planning based on him building this wall. I just dont want to have to wait around to see what he does with it. I dont want him coming onto my property to build the wall or expecting me to have to pay for half of it if its on the boundary. I just want him to do it on his own side in his own time. I wanted to make sure I dont have some legal obligation to go in with him on a wall etc.

Jimmy Garlic · 28-11-2016 10:00pm

Seems like your neighbour doesn't want to see you anymore. Let him build the wall and stop making such a drama out of it.

elperello · 28-11-2016 10:09pm

Whether it's your neighbour or a builder who actually builds the wall there will likely be incursion into your property during construction.

It will be almost impossible to put in the foundations properly if he is only a few inches inside his property.
It will definitely be impossible to point the blocks on your side.

If there is a planning application it is a public document and you should go in to the planning office to view it. You at least will be able to see that what is built is what was granted permission. It may be viewable online.

GarIT · 29-11-2016 12:49pm

frankdolanjnr wrote: »

Thanks. I really don't care if he builds it or not, and I would not object to his planning based on him building this wall. I just dont want to have to wait around to see what he does with it. I dont want him coming onto my property to build the wall or expecting me to have to pay for half of it if its on the boundary. I just want him to do it on his own side in his own time. I wanted to make sure I dont have some legal obligation to go in with him on a wall etc.

Then you're covered, you don't have to let him do any of that.

sydthebeat · 29-11-2016 1:57pm

exaisle wrote: »

No. He can build a wall up to but not over the boundary unless you consent.

If it's on his side, any problems arising (eg if it fell down) are his too.

thats not correct advice

sydthebeat · 29-11-2016 4:23pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

thats not correct advise

just to expand on this.....

the following is from Land And Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009

ive bolded the important bits

44.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), a building owner may carry out works to a party structure for the purpose of—

(a) compliance with any statutory provision or any notice or order under such a provision, or

(b) carrying out development which is exempted development or development for which planning permission has been obtained or compliance with any condition attached to such permission, or

(c) preservation of the party structure or of any building or unbuilt-on land of which it forms a part, or

(d) carrying out any other works which—

(i) will not cause substantial damage or inconvenience to the adjoining owner, or

(ii) if they may or will cause such damage or inconvenience, it is nevertheless reasonable to carry them out.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), in exercising any right under subsection (1) the building owner shall—

(a) make good all damage caused to the adjoining owner as a consequence of the works, or reimburse the adjoining owner the reasonable costs and expenses of such making good, and

(b) pay to the adjoining owner—

(i) the reasonable costs of obtaining professional advice with regard to the likely consequences of the works, and

(ii) reasonable compensation for any inconvenience caused by the works.

(3) The building owner may—

(a) claim from the adjoining owner as a contribution to, or deduct from any reimbursement of, the cost and expenses of making good such damage under subsection (2)(a), or

(b) deduct from compensation under subsection (2)(b)(ii),

such sum as will take into account the proportionate use or enjoyment of the party structure which the adjoining owner makes or, it is reasonable to assume, is likely to make.

(4) If—

(a) a building owner fails within a reasonable time to—

(i) make good damage under subsection (2)(a), the adjoining owner may apply to the court for an order requiring the damage to be made good and on such application the court may make such order as it thinks fit, or

(ii) reimburse costs and expenses under subsection (2)(a) or to pay reasonable costs or compensation under subsection (2)(b), the adjoining owner may recover such costs, expenses or compensation as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.

(b) an adjoining owner fails to meet a claim to a contribution under subsection (3)(a), the building owner may recover such contribution as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.

so not only can a person carry out works to a party structure ie wall / fence etc without the permission of the adjoining owner, but they can also claim compensation from that adjoining owner for costs proportionate to the enjoyment the adjoining owner may have from the structure.

Angry bird · 29-11-2016 7:00pm

Very useful info that syd. Neighbour on one side replaced wooden panel fence with concrete panels, more unsightly but far more structurally sound. I would suggest to frankdolanjnr to plant some hedge inside the boundary wall, which can be up to two metres in height, if the sight of it is a problem. Personally I'd be delighted if someone wanted to build a party wall at their expense.

frankdolanjnr · 30-11-2016 9:19am

sydthebeat wrote: »

just to expand on this.....

the following is from Land And Conveyancing Law Reform Act 2009

ive bolded the important bits

44.— (1) Subject to subsection (2), a building owner may carry out works to a party structure for the purpose of—

(a) compliance with any statutory provision or any notice or order under such a provision, or

(b) carrying out development which is exempted development or development for which planning permission has been obtained or compliance with any condition attached to such permission, or

(c) preservation of the party structure or of any building or unbuilt-on land of which it forms a part, or

(d) carrying out any other works which—

(i) will not cause substantial damage or inconvenience to the adjoining owner, or

(ii) if they may or will cause such damage or inconvenience, it is nevertheless reasonable to carry them out.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), in exercising any right under subsection (1) the building owner shall—

(a) make good all damage caused to the adjoining owner as a consequence of the works, or reimburse the adjoining owner the reasonable costs and expenses of such making good, and

(b) pay to the adjoining owner—

(i) the reasonable costs of obtaining professional advice with regard to the likely consequences of the works, and

(ii) reasonable compensation for any inconvenience caused by the works.

(3) The building owner may—

(a) claim from the adjoining owner as a contribution to, or deduct from any reimbursement of, the cost and expenses of making good such damage under subsection (2)(a), or

(b) deduct from compensation under subsection (2)(b)(ii),

such sum as will take into account the proportionate use or enjoyment of the party structure which the adjoining owner makes or, it is reasonable to assume, is likely to make.

(4) If—

(a) a building owner fails within a reasonable time to—

(i) make good damage under subsection (2)(a), the adjoining owner may apply to the court for an order requiring the damage to be made good and on such application the court may make such order as it thinks fit, or

(ii) reimburse costs and expenses under subsection (2)(a) or to pay reasonable costs or compensation under subsection (2)(b), the adjoining owner may recover such costs, expenses or compensation as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.

(b) an adjoining owner fails to meet a claim to a contribution under subsection (3)(a), the building owner may recover such contribution as a simple contract debt in a court of competent jurisdiction.

so not only can a person carry out works to a party structure ie wall / fence etc without the permission of the adjoining owner, but they can also claim compensation from that adjoining owner for costs proportionate to the enjoyment the adjoining owner may have from the structure.

Unless I am wrong, a party wall is a wall between two buildings, like the internal wall that is shared by 2 semi detached houses. A boundary wall is a different thing.

sydthebeat · 30-11-2016 9:57am

frankdolanjnr wrote: »

Unless I am wrong, a party wall is a wall between two buildings, like the internal wall that is shared by 2 semi detached houses. A boundary wall is a different thing.

In the context of the legislation you are wrong.

A party structure is any structure dividing two properties. This can be a wall, fence, hedge whatever.

At the very beginning of that section of the act, you can see the definition of a party structure.

“party structure” means any arch, ceiling, ditch, fence, floor, hedge, partition, shrub, tree, wall or other structure which horizontally, vertically or in any other way—

(a) divides adjoining and separately owned buildings, or

(b) is situated at or on or so close to the boundary line between adjoining and separately owned buildings or between such buildings and unbuilt-on lands that it is impossible or not reasonably practical to carry out works to the structure without access to the adjoining building or unbuilt-on land,

Tow · 30-11-2016 10:08am

frankdolanjnr wrote: »

I dont want a block wall on the boundary, it out of keeping with all of the neighbours gardens which are a mix of wooden fences and hedging.

It is not what you want, but what ia allowed in law:

CLASS 5

The construction, erection or alteration, within or bounding the curtilage of a house, of a gate, gateway, railing or wooden fence or a wall of brick, stone, blocks with decorative finish, other concrete blocks or mass concrete.

1. The height of any such structure shall not exceed 2 metres or, in the case of a wall or fence within or bounding any garden or other space in front of a house, 1.2 metres.

2. Every wall other than a dry or natural stone wall bounding any garden or other space shall be capped and the face of any wall of concrete or concrete block (other than blocks with decorative finish) which will be visible from any road, path or public area, including public open space, shall be rendered or plastered.

3. No such structure shall be a metal palisade or other security fence.

listermint · 30-11-2016 1:46pm

frankdolanjnr wrote: »

As mentioned above, I dont want a block wall, its out of keeping with how boundaries are done in the area.

frankdolanjnr wrote: »

I really don't care if he builds it or not, and I would not object to his planning based on him building this wall.

Its quite clear you may be just on the wind up, as you said relations arent great. Feels like you just want to make them worse for no reason.

Because its clear you care but then you dont care about the wall....

Calahonda52 · 02-12-2016 12:53pm

exaisle wrote: »

No. He can build a wall up to but not over the boundary unless you consent.

If it's on his side, any problems arising (eg if it fell down) are his too.

As this without consent misconception is common on boards, its worth repeating that it is misguided. See post 14 above.

The courts will grant a works order if you continue to object. See section 45 of the relevant act

tradesman · 03-12-2016 10:48am

As other posters have said your neighbour is putting up a good structure which you will benefit from. I suggest you talk to him / her & see what the full plan is, discuss any issues you have. Tell them you would like the wall capped & fully pointed. Let them build it first, then put up your timber fence otherwise they will most certainly damage your fence, your post foundations will loosen etc. which could lead to years of bad feelings. Best to have the chat first you never know things may go ahead without any trouble. If not then is the time to start moaning not before!

ted1 · 03-12-2016 10:50am

frankdolanjnr wrote: »

As mentioned above, I dont want a block wall, its out of keeping with how boundaries are done in the area. Also, I dont want to wait a year for him to get around to doing it, I want to fix the privacy issue now, by myself, on my own side. I dont want to have to depend on him getting around to doing it. The question was, can someone build something on the boundary without the other owners consent?

And when it's built you attach a wooden trellis to it on your side

looksee · 03-12-2016 11:20am

I can see where the OP is coming from. Sounds as though this guy is the type who will take a notion and pull out a hedge with the intention of building a boundary wall, then look for permission to build it on the boundary, thus taking out the wire fence too.

Then he finds out how much it will cost to build a wall, so he decides to build it himself. Eventually digs up the boundary and puts in foundation of some sort. Then more interesting stuff happens, like his extension, and the wall remains as a row of foundation and piles of blocks.

Then he suggests that in order to get things moving he should employ someone to build it, but will now need a contribution from the OP to do this. Eventually, could be a couple of years later, the neighbour still has permission to come into the OP's land. His kids, dogs etc don't need permission because there is no boundary.

Eventually the neighbour builds the wall, but out of sight is out of mind, and the OPs side never does quite get finished, so after a couple of years of aggravation, he still has to put up a fence or whatever to hide it.

mansize · 03-12-2016 11:27am

Are you Mexico?

tradesman · 03-12-2016 11:40am

I understand the op concerns but mark my words if they put up the timber fence first there will be trouble later! ie: post concrete gets loose when neighbour digs out the foundation & possible damage to fence panels, cement snots on the panels etc. Try to work together, if not then let him / her do their wall then op does their timber fence. I wouldn't attach to the concrete wall best to keep it independent of the neighbours wall. You never know if trump hears how good the neighbour was at building the wall he might give him a call & hes out of the way for a few years! Neighbour might even emigrate! lol

eireyiddo · 05-03-2017 9:48am

Crazy how people go on when they're actually gaining something. Problem here is stupidity. Rather lose garden space than actually mend relations with a neighbor. I feel for the one trying to build the wall. Never win this one. Put the house up for sale and move somewhere with no neighbors. Bitterness is an awful thing. The privacy issue is all this is over. Head wrecker of a neighbor. Go on tinder

seagull · 09-03-2017 2:06pm

The OP makes reference to the neighbour planning an extension. In that case, it may be the neighbour's plan that the block wall on the boundary will also be the wall for the extension. If that is the case, then there could be issues with things like overhanging gutters.

tradesman · 10-03-2017 7:56am

seagull wrote: »

The OP makes reference to the neighbour planning an extension. In that case, it may be the neighbour's plan that the block wall on the boundary will also be the wall for the extension. If that is the case, then there could be issues with things like overhanging gutters.

The wall of any extension should not be built exactly on the boundary as you rightly point out there is a gutter overhang. If I were building an extension I would keep the gutter edge approx. 100mm in from the boundary. No possible issues afterwards. Neighbours should talk to each other about proposed works. Dont try to pre - empt what someone is going to do. Always best to talk

Gumbo · 10-03-2017 7:23pm

tradesman wrote: »

The wall of any extension should not be built exactly on the boundary as you rightly point out there is a gutter overhang. If I were building an extension I would keep the gutter edge approx. 100mm in from the boundary. No possible issues afterwards. Neighbours should talk to each other about proposed works. Dont try to pre - empt what someone is going to do. Always best to talk

Neighbours should talk before works begin.
I think the best way forward is a structural wall built on the centre line, built like a party wall and parapet on top.

One neighbour builds one side, other builds on the other side.
Surface water run off from the roof is contained to each side of the properties and then there's no wasted space in the middle where infestation can occur.

endacl · 10-03-2017 7:30pm

You're going to have to cooperate in some shape or form, or you'll be staring at the side of the wall with all the messy cement pointing. The builder won't be able to sort them from his side, and allowing access for the purpose of tidying up the work is.... well.... cooperating.

Car99 · 10-03-2017 7:40pm

Let the man build his wall then set a copper beach hedge yourself , you can get 4ft high potted plants for €12 each . In a couple of years you won't even see most of the wall.

Can my neighbour build a boundary wall?

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