The Rugby Championship MMXIV

Swiwi. · 06-08-2014 2:32pm #1

Well, with way WAY too much time being devoted in other threads to jerseys and the like, time for a proper rugby thread

…namely the 2014 RC.

It promises to be a cracker, with all 3 SANZAR teams in pretty good June form, I just hope that Argentina can do a bit more this year than make up the numbers - but I’m not holding my breath. An inaugural Argentinian victory would be most welcome…so long as it doesn’t involve NZ…

One of the subplots to the tournament will be whether the Wallabies can ride the Waratahs wave and finally crack NZ’s stranglehold on the Bledisloe Cup, and of couse NZ is aiming for 1 more victory to set a new record among the top flight nations.

Rather than methodically previewing each team, here are a few of the things I’ll be keeping an eye on.

Folau v Smith v Le Roux: probably the world’s 3 premier fulbacks, especially after Mike Brown had a mediocre tour downunder. Smith is the most all-rounded of the 3, but Le Roux has a mean kick-chase game, and Folau is dynamite under the high ball, and difficult to pull down in full flight. These battles are worth the price of admission alone, it just remains to be seen whether Smith plays at FB or is moved to the wing to accommodate Dagg.

Which midfield Aussie goes with: Toomua & Kuridrani or Beale & AAC. I’d probably ditch Kuridrani, but it’s a 50/50 between Toomua and Beale at 12. Hopefully Henry Speight can get a run at some stage for Aussie, otherwise AAC may be kept on the flanks.

NZ’s tall timber vs SA’s tall timber: NZ & SA both have world class lineouts, and it’s an area they’ll be looking to exploit against the other sides. Maybe Whitelock & Retallick vs Ezebeth & Matfield (if he gets over his injury).

Hooper vs McCaw – the speed merchant vs the canny Kiwi.

Does Juan Smith still have it? Will Carter actually play a game?

That’ll do, some of us have to work…

I’d be intrigued to see what the rest of ye think. Should really be compulsory viewing for Irish fans, given the matches scheduled for November…

thomond2006 · 06-08-2014 2:34pm

Not a mention of Juan Martin Fernandez Ligind. How very dare you.

.ak · 06-08-2014 2:37pm

The new Aussie jersey is nice.

thomond2006 · 06-08-2014 2:39pm

It's some return for Juan Smith. He was immense towards the end of last season when he got a run of starts. It's crazy to think he was retired for about six months after about two years out with injury after numerous failed Achilles ops.

Swiwi. · 06-08-2014 2:41pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Not a mention of Juan Martin Fernandez Ligind. How very dare you.

I'm not optimistic about Argentina's chances at all, but we see whether resting key players during the Irish series makes any difference. They start on the Highveldt, so not easy.

John Hayes.

That should keep you happy.

CatFromHue · 06-08-2014 2:56pm

In fairness to Argentine they always end up with having only 1 home game in the first 4.

Hard to build up momentum when you're always on the road and starting the comp with a home game is always far better than an away game.

pickarooney · 06-08-2014 3:26pm

With the recent improvement in Australian rugby I fear an absolute tonking in all six games is in the offing for Argentina. I hope I'm wrong but the signs are there. I think it might be SA's year.

I just hope I get to actually watch some games live this time.

I am pie · 06-08-2014 5:57pm

Going to try and get to one of the Arg home games, one home win against anyone would be great, but I suspect it's going to be beyond their reach.

Plan is to get down to La Plata on a day trip for ABs game there. Nice stadium too.

Buer · 07-08-2014 9:05am

So Slade is brought in to replace Carter. No more than he deserves given his form over the season. He's unlucky that NZ have several excellent outhalves at the moment.

The knock on impact will be Bleyendaal getting an unobstructed run at the 10 jersey for Canterbury now. I see himself and a few of his Canterbury team mates have got themselves some bad press over big game hunting in SA. Much ado about nothing.

The first weekend will be interesting. Australian rugby is somewhat on the crest of a wave at the moment and their first match might be the best possible time to play NZ. If Australia can get a win there, anything is possible. With that said, we've seen this all before and I can't see a team with a creaking set piece do too much damage in the RC.

I think South Africa are primed to win the tournament with someone like WLR able to give them a spark behind the pack.

Swiwi. · 07-08-2014 4:52pm

Buer wrote: »

So Slade is brought in to replace Carter. No more than he deserves given his form over the season. He's unlucky that NZ have several excellent outhalves at the moment.

The knock on impact will be Bleyendaal getting an unobstructed run at the 10 jersey for Canterbury now. I see himself and a few of his Canterbury team mates have got themselves some bad press over big game hunting in SA. Much ado about nothing.

The first weekend will be interesting. Australian rugby is somewhat on the crest of a wave at the moment and their first match might be the best possible time to play NZ. If Australia can get a win there, anything is possible. With that said, we've seen this all before and I can't see a team with a creaking set piece do too much damage in the RC.

I think South Africa are primed to win the tournament with someone like WLR able to give them a spark behind the pack.

Yeah I saw that TB gets a run for the Canterbury ITM team. There's no law against game hunting in SA, and you won't see me marching and holding placards about it!

It should be a close tournament. I'm not sure about SA, their teams pretty much went woefully in Super Rugby, and they seem to be relying on stars of the past, however that U21 flyhalf is supposed to be something else, and their back 3 is genuinely classy rather than just relying on Habana.

Australia has lost the run of itself after the SXV, all I read is how Aussie is primed to take down NZ etc, but they still have an average tight 5, especially with the injuries to their 2 frontline hookers.

I'm still picking NZ, but not without a defeat or 2. But it could be very close. The only real certainty is that Argentina will finish a distant 4th, if they win a single game the tournament will be a success for them.

pickarooney · 08-08-2014 2:59pm

When does it start? Simply too lazy to google it

08-08-2014 3:04pm

AU v NZ on Sat 16th at 11am

Swiwi. · 08-08-2014 6:10pm

pickarooney wrote: »

When does it start? Simply too lazy to google it

That is just sad pickarooney.

NZ AUS RC = 7 letters, or 9 characters.

Mind you with that 35 hour week in France, no doubt you've picked up bad habits.

sydthebeat · 08-08-2014 6:36pm

Slade replaces Carter in squad number only I'd say. I be very surprised to see him starting ahead of either cruden or barrett. Would love to see Barrett given an extended run to show what he can do as I see him as the long term replacement for Carter.

Ridiculous the amount of quality 10s such a small country produces....

.ak · 11-08-2014 10:36am

Swiwi. wrote: »

Please expand .ak...

Have their been more earthquakes in Chch?

Otherwise who is looking shaky??

The holy trinity to be precise. McCaw hasn't looked his best for a while, and whilst he was playing out of position the SXV final put a serious question mark over him - the really cutting part was giving away the penalty that lost them the game. Carter is out, full stop. Read is my favourite player in world rugby right now, but he's starting to look a little tired. Those outside switches he's famous for are looking a little laboured. He's still absolutely immense, I just don't think he'll reach the heights he did last season.

Now, I'm not saying the ABs can't preform without these three. They can, ofcourse they can, they're the ABs... However, there is a lot of other factors to consider, and the biggest one is just how good SA right now. We always bang on about how limited they are but the reality is they've got some serious weapons in their arsenal right now The play a direct game but with the likes of Habana and La Roux in top form they're now capable of mixing up their game a little. They are absolutely ruthless on the counter. I think the SA and NZ head to heads will be great (as usual) but in a RWC build up year I think there'll be even more spice, and as a neutral I have to say I think SA are in the driving seat, they've great momentum going into the tournament I think.

Swiwi. · 11-08-2014 10:53am

Ok we see. It's been ages since I've seen the Aussies so confident about a test match. Carter has been an AB non event for about 2 years. If he gets back bonus, otherwise the Cruden/Barrett show can continue. McCaw has lost pace no doubt, I agree on the decline, but I'd be reluctant to drop him yet. Especially as Cane has barely played all year. Read has gone OK last few weeks IMO.

We will see. Last time SA played they just about lost to Wales...

11-08-2014 10:54am

It's still the same team that went undefeated last year.

.ak · 11-08-2014 10:58am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's still the same team that went undefeated last year.

Well that's another factor isn't it? Hard to repeat that sort of level of intensity, professionalism and consistency. If they do it, great. But will they be pushing themselves that extra 10% knowing they're going into a RWC year? I imagine some players will probably want to take it a bit handy this year and give it their all next rather than burning themselves out.

SA will probably be the opposite, they'll want the momentum going into WC. It'll be 2007 all over again in their minds.

11-08-2014 11:15am

You can really spin that either way. NZ are galvanized by last year's effort and every match will be considered a final to keep up their undefeated record to continue their dominance coming into the RWC. Some of them tasted defeat in the SXV and they don't like it. Nobody will be taking it handy, that's for sure.

I reckon SA will take a game of NZ this year. Can't wait for this tournament.

Swiwi. · 11-08-2014 11:19am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can really spin that either way. NZ are galvanized by last year's effort and every match will be considered a final to keep up their undefeated record to continue their dominance coming into the RWC. Some of them tasted defeat in the SXV and they don't like it. Nobody will be taking it handy, that's for sure.

I reckon SA will take a game of NZ this year. Can't wait for this tournament.

I will be surprised if NZ don't lose a game. But they should win this weekend, with 18 on the trot on the line. And Aussie dropping hookers like flies. Might yet see Stephen Donald pull on the parrot gold 2 jumper.

Tox56 · 11-08-2014 11:52am

I think SA and Aus both have the potential to beat New Zealand who looked very beatable at times in the summer v England and in their last 3 games on the EOYT, but I reckon only one of them will do it once. The problem with that is SA and Aus are very likely to take points off each other, whereas that NZ loss will surely be their only one. NZ to lose at least one game but win the cup is what id say

pickarooney · 11-08-2014 4:33pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

Ok we see. It's been ages since I've seen the Aussies so confident about a test match. Carter has been an AB non event for about 2 years. If he gets back bonus, otherwise the Cruden/Barrett show can continue. McCaw has lost pace no doubt, I agree on the decline, but I'd be reluctant to drop him yet. Especially as Cane has barely played all year. Read has gone OK last few weeks IMO.

We will see. Last time SA played they just about lost to Wales...

They won 31-30.

Swiwi. · 12-08-2014 6:27am

1. James Slipper (vc – Queensland Reds)
2. Nathan Charles (Western Force)
3. Sekope Kepu (NSW Waratahs)
4. Sam Carter (ACT Brumbies)
5. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
6. Scott Fardy (ACT Brumbies)
7. Michael Hooper (c – NSW Waratahs)
8. Wycliff Palu (NSW Waratahs)
9. Nic White (ACT Brumbies)
10. Kurtley Beale (NSW Waratahs)
11. Rob Horne (NSW Waratahs)
12. Matt Toomua (ACT Brumbies)
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper (vc – NSW Waratahs)
14. Pat McCabe (ACT Brumbies)
15. Israel Folau (NSW Waratahs)

Reserves
James Hanson (Queensland Reds)
Pek Cowan (Western Force)
Ben Alexander (ACT Brumbies)
Will Skelton (NSW Waratahs)
Ben McCalman (Western Force)
Scott Higginbotham (Melbourne Rebels)
Nick Phipps (NSW Waratahs)
Bernard Foley (NSW Waratahs)
Tevita Kuridrani (ACT Brumbies)

Can Kurtley be the wizard at 10? If he get stuck, there's always the Reds' Slipper

McKenzie really does go with the form mantra, you'd have to say though (and it's only theoretical for varying reasons) that Speight and Cummins on the wings would have been more potent.

sydthebeat · 12-08-2014 7:38am

Mccabe on the wing wtf?

Cummins definitely should be there but posting the price for his move to Japan.

Horwill dropped which isn't big news, and Nathan Carter's story just continues to amaze... hope he gives a good account of himself.

Swiwi. · 12-08-2014 7:59am

Methinks it's time for a STB match preview! You've watched your fair share of SXV there son...

sydthebeat · 12-08-2014 8:04am

Swiwi. wrote: »

Methinks it's time for a STB match preview! You've watched your fair share of SXV there son...

I don't mind giving it a go, for the craic

hahashake · 12-08-2014 10:00am

I'm impressed with the Beale selection. Obviously Mckenzie wants to chance his arm. I reckon it will turn out to be a bad call though.

Just realised there is no Horwill in the team. Pretty big fall from grace for a captain, especially when you consider he captained under Mckenzie at the Reds in 2011.

Swiwi. · 12-08-2014 10:10am

hahashake wrote: »

I'm impressed with the Beale selection. Obviously Mckenzie wants to chance his arm. I reckon it will turn out to be a bad call though.

Just realised there is no Horwill in the team. Pretty big fall from grace for a captain, especially when you consider he captained under Mckenzie at the Reds in 2011.

There is no innate Reds loyalty it seems. I reckon it could be a long way back for Cooper & Genia too, if at all. I reckon NZ will target Beale's defence.

hahashake · 12-08-2014 10:15am

I think QC is injured. Genia never really got back to his peak, not sure if it is injury related. Think he is gone to Stade Francais after the world cup too, will be almost a shame if he doesn't get a run at the RWC.

Buer · 12-08-2014 11:32am

I'm surprised by the Beale selection. We have a bloke who has struggled for form for some time now and has finally turned it around after getting settled at 12 where he has played excellently. Not only that, but he has done so outside the other option at 10 who he now keeps out of the side.

I really don't think it's the right call from EM on this one.

I doubt that front five will give any restless nights to Hansen. They should have the measure of Australia there and, in that, the winning of the game.

On a side note, I doubt too many people would have ever envisaged those two blokes starting on the wing for Australia a couple of years ago. Neither have ever played on the wing for their country.

hahashake · 12-08-2014 11:42am

Beale is a playmaker but Toomua played too well in gold to drop so he needs to put Beale into a playmaking position. Foley is a little unlucky but I don't think he is world class, at least not in gold. He will almost certainly get a few runs at 10 this year though.

I would consider playing Fardy in the second row, then put Higgers or Mcalman at 6.

Swiwi. · 12-08-2014 12:18pm

Buer wrote: »

I'm surprised by the Beale selection. We have a bloke who has struggled for form for some time now and has finally turned it around after getting settled at 12 where he has played excellently. Not only that, but he has done so outside the other option at 10 who he now keeps out of the side.

I really don't think it's the right call from EM on this one.

I doubt that front five will give any restless nights to Hansen. They should have the measure of Australia there and, in that, the winning of the game.

On a side note, I doubt too many people would have ever envisaged those two blokes starting on the wing for Australia a couple of years ago. Neither have ever played on the wing for their country.

The front five is probably the best available, but as you say not going to give Steve-o any headaches. Back row is decent enough. Beale has potential at 10...but hadn't played there all season. I never rated Foley, expecting him to fold under pressure but he held his nerve in the SXV final. I would definitely have Toomua at 12, he is Aussie's answer to Conrad in that he is reliable, calm, defends well, and takes the right options. AAC is the correct choice at 13. But makeshift players on the wing, basically converted midfielders. Add Moore, an on form Genia, Speight & Cummins and I would be more worried.

If Aussie win, Hooper and Folau will have featured strongly.

Goalkicking could be an issue for them too.

Swiwi. · 12-08-2014 12:19pm

hahashake wrote: »

Beale is a playmaker but Toomua played too well in gold to drop so he needs to put Beale into a playmaking position. Foley is a little unlucky but I don't think he is world class, at least not in gold. He will almost certainly get a few runs at 10 this year though.

I would consider playing Fardy in the second row, then put Higgers or Mcalman at 6.

Toomua at 10 and Beale at 12 might have been a better choice.

12-08-2014 12:29pm

Is there any other international team that chop and change their back line much as Australia

hahashake · 12-08-2014 1:07pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

Toomua at 10 and Beale at 12 might have been a better choice.

Yep. Although Toomua played very well at 12 in gold behind QC, maybe McKenzie wants to replicate that combination. Plus I don't think he trusts Beale to mark Nonu.

matthew8 · 12-08-2014 5:54pm

Not mad at all on that set of backs, I'm a big fan of Kuridrani and would have put Foley at 10, Beale 12, Kuridrani 13 and AAC 14. Don't mind the McCabe and Horne selections, they're in great form. With that said, this isn't the first time I've wondered about McKenzie's selection, and I suspect this won't be the first time he's proven right. I rate him among the top international coaches and I think the team will give it a great go. I like the selections of Slipper and Kepu, Charles is the only guy left on the other hand. He wasn't left with much choice from 4-8 but at least the back row is a good one. Big question though is the goal kicker, having Beale/White as your kicker is a fairly desperate situation.

NZ will need to be on their 2013 tri nations form to win this I think, the performances from the AIs and June internationals won't be good enough I reckon.

Bridge93 · 13-08-2014 12:32am

If you go through them player by player the amount of quality backs Australia produce is staggering when the sport is only probably the 5th largest in the country.
in a perfect world for them they could choose from:

Halfbacks - Phipps, Genia, White, Cooper, Foley, Beale
Centres - Toomua, AAC, Kuridrani, Giteau, O' Connor, McCabe, Horne, Lealiafano
Wings - Speight, Cummins, Mitchell, Ioane
Fullbacks - Folau, Mogg

I'm sure ive forgotten some but I think thats serious production.

13-08-2014 11:54am

Springbok team to face Argentina on Saturday.

15. Willie le Roux 15 tests 35 points
14. Cornal Hendricks 3 tests 10 points
13. Damian de Allende 0 tests 0 points
12. Jean de Villiers (captain) 96 tests 125 points
11. Bryan Habana 97 tests 275 points
10. Handré Pollard 1 test 13 points
9. Ruan Pienaar 76 tests 130 points
8. Duane Vermeulen 19 tests 10 points
7. Willem Alberts 32 tests 35 points
6. Francois Louw 30 tests 25 points
5. Lood de Jager 3 tests 10 points
4. Bakkies Botha 79 tests 35 points
3. Jannie du Plessis 54 tests 5 points
2. Bismarck du Plessis (vice-captain) 60 tests 45 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira 55 tests 10 points

Replacements:
16. Adriaan Strauss 34 tests 25 points
17. Trevor Nyakane 4 tests 5 points
18. Frans Malherbe 2 tests 0 points
19. Eben Etzebeth 23 tests 0 points
20. Marcell Coetzee16 tests 10 points
21. Francois Hougaard 28 tests 20 points
22. Morné Steyn 56 tests 660 points
23. Jan Serfontein 12 tests 5 points

Swiwi. · 13-08-2014 12:13pm

Decent Sprinkbok team. Will be interesting to see how Doogie Howser goes at 10

George Hook · 13-08-2014 1:31pm

No rest for Jannie Du Plessis then.

I can't remember now but didn't Speight go off injured in the semi - I assume he's grand now.

Wonder who is faster in a sprint race now McCaw or Chris Henry? (not meant as a swipe at them, but they are just both very noticeably slow.)

Would love to see NZ lose a match this time, I do love NZ but you just need a bit of an upset every now and again to keep things interesting.

This tournament is going to be very tight this year I wouldn't like to call it - will probably come down to a right or wrong decision by a ref.

Swiwi. · 13-08-2014 8:12pm

All Blacks: Ben Smith, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith; Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (captain), Jerome Kaino, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Wyatt Crockett. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Ben Franks, Joe Moody, Steven Luatua, Sam Cane, TJ Perenara, Beauden Barrett, Malakai Fekitoa.

Ben at 15

sydthebeat · 13-08-2014 8:53pm

Ok, ill get a game preview up by tomorrow afternoon if that's ok with the usual suspects?

Journeyman_1 · 13-08-2014 10:14pm

There are some big names missing from that AB team.

Swiwi. · 13-08-2014 10:23pm

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

There are some big names missing from that AB team.

Yeah, it's a weak side alright

Woodcock and Carter are the only 2 I can think of...unless you know something I don't J_1

Should be a cracking test match, there have been some absolutely classic games in Sydney down the years, Lomu & Kefu scoring in the dying minutes respectively in 2000 and 2001 spring to mind, and there's also the small matter of "that" tackle by Gregan

Will be interested to see how Sydthebeat previews the match, there have been plenty of headlines coming out of a pretty cocky Australia I must say to keep the ABs motivated.

matthew8 · 13-08-2014 10:35pm

I hate this talk of a team's cockiness motivating the other guys. Australia are better off confident than feeling like underdogs, and of all teams NZ don't ever need any extra motivation, they always come out firing.

I suppose you could also say Messam and Dagg are 2 big names that are missing, but to be honest NZ have so many big names it would be impossible to name a team with every one of them.

De Allende named in the centre for the Boks, ridiculous how many options they have while we struggle so badly here in Ireland. Tough to see how Argentina will even get within 2 scores, but this SA team have had the odd struggle when you least expect it so who knows.

Journeyman_1 · 13-08-2014 10:44pm

Swiwi. wrote: »

Yeah, it's a weak side alright

Woodcock and Carter are the only 2 I can think of...unless you know something I don't J_1

Should be a cracking test match, there have been some absolutely classic games in Sydney down the years, Lomu & Kefu scoring in the dying minutes respectively in 2000 and 2001 spring to mind, and there's also the small matter of "that" tackle by Gregan

Will be interested to see how Sydthebeat previews the match, there have been plenty of headlines coming out of a pretty cocky Australia I must say to keep the ABs motivated.

Oh no, I wasn't implying that it was a weak team at all, I just saw that Dagg and Messam weren't in the squad where they have been regular starters for a few years and the team hasn't really gotten weaker (probably stronger) without them, even if they were in top form.

Morf · 14-08-2014 1:52am

Woodcock, Afeaki (is he injured), Messam and Piutau (low on game time though) would all strike as biggish names missing.

CatFromHue · 14-08-2014 2:07am

How have Crockett and Coles been playing this season?

I don't really watch that much SuperXV anymore but my main memory of them is in not that strong/inaccurate set piece teams.

Swiwi. · 14-08-2014 6:29am

Journeyman_1 wrote: »

Oh no, I wasn't implying that it was a weak team at all, I just saw that Dagg and Messam weren't in the squad where they have been regular starters for a few years and the team hasn't really gotten weaker (probably stronger) without them, even if they were in top form.

Morf wrote: »

Woodcock, Afeaki (is he injured), Messam and Piutau (low on game time though) would all strike as biggish names missing.

CatFromHue wrote: »

How have Crockett and Coles been playing this season?

I don't really watch that much SuperXV anymore but my main memory of them is in not that strong/inaccurate set piece teams.

Dagg is just not in the same form as Smith, although he does have a better punt. He could well be back at some stage, with Smith moving back to 14. Kaino is just a better player than Messam, potentially the best NZ 6 I've ever seen.

Afeaki's head ran into Retallick's head in round 1 of SXV (February!) - and he never made it back with concussion

Hopefully he is back in 2015, but it is potentially career ending. In 2012, I thought he looked set for a decent stint in black, but then he broke his arm from memory, and now the concussion issue. Piutau I would have ahead of Jane, I thought he was just excellent last season, but in fairness Jane did have a blinder in Test 3 of the English series.

Crockett is an excellent prop...except prone to being a penalty magnet at scrum time, although he seems to have improved. Big opportunity for him this weekend. Coles has grown on me, but most people are still not sure about his scrummaging. He is pretty lethal in open play though, just think (or maybe not...) of Dublin last year. He had a pretty decent season with the Canes.

pickarooney · 14-08-2014 6:31am

That NZ team looks heaps better than Oz. Where to for Dagg, now?

thomond2006 · 14-08-2014 10:42am

Argentina side to play SA:

Tuculet ; Agulla, Bosch, Hernandez, Montero ;
Sanchez, Landajo ;

Fernandez Lobbe, Leguizamon, Matera ;
Lavanini, Galarza ;
Herrera, Creevy (cap), Ayerza.

Cortese, Noguera Paz, Chaparro, Alemanno, Senatore, Cubelli, Iglesias, Amorosino.

The Rugby Championship MMXIV

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