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Boom boom boom...

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    #32
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    This country owes billions, we are still in a recession. Just because prices are going up in dublin, does not mean we are heading for a boom. Dublin does not represent the whole country. Many employers, are looking for interns, or 50 euro a week jobridge workers.

    The last boom was fueled by german banks, giving money to irish banks to give someone a loan of 200k plus for an ordinary 3bed house or apartment. Which is now worth 100k.

    We don't need a boom, we need a economic recovery. There's only so long you can work as an intern before you need a real job with a real wage.

    I'd say the ECB will be keeping a close eye on irish banks lending, to stop a boom-bust like we had in 2008.


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    #33
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    RedPandaDan wrote: »
    Not paying huge sums on a home is hardly a grand plan.



    Morbid curiosity, but why celebrate rises in the cost of living?

    Because it improves his own position. He may no longer be in negative equity. At the end of the day humans by our very nature want what's best for ourselves and not what's best for everyone


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    #34
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    IF you are happy to stay in your home,
    It,s close to where you work,
    and you can afford to pay the mortgage ,being in negative equity
    is not a big deal .
    Most mortgages are 25 years at least.
    ITS a problem if you want to sell your house and the bank won,t let you do so.


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    #35
    Dredd_J
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Dredd_J


    Im living in my childhood family home at the moment (parents are living abroad though for the year).
    If they come back though we will move out as we dont want to be on top of them. As much as they say we are welcome, I know they need their own space and are just being nice.
    I would consider it impolite to be living on top of them at my age.


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    #36
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    marathonic wrote: »
    I've just been looking at apartments in Dublin that sell for €130,000 and rent for €1,100 monthly (including €140 monthly management fees).

    Have you got links to these apartments? Both rental asking price and sale asking price? I can't imagine where they could be with such high rent and such low sale prices?


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    #37
    ballyharpat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    iguana wrote: »
    Have you got links to these apartments? Both rental asking price and sale asking price? I can't imagine where they could be with such high rent and such low sale prices?

    If you want to buy two apartments for 130k -for both- and make e600 per apartment per month, then look on Daft and check out Killarney-Barrys lane, that's the low side of rent for a 2 bed. also, check out the price for a rental, in the town for a 2 bed apartment......


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    #38
    Dredd_J
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Dredd_J


    iguana wrote: »
    Have you got links to these apartments? Both rental asking price and sale asking price? I can't imagine where they could be with such high rent and such low sale prices?

    Ive just done a quick search on Daft to see if thats true.
    There are loads of them - in Dublin too.


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    #39
    bluemartin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 188 ✭✭bluemartin


    marathonic wrote: »
    One piece of advice I would have for anyone holding off on buying property or happily renting with no intention of buying is to make sure they've got a decent pension plan in place. Having to survive solely on the state pension, whilst also renting, would be a pretty depressing prospect.

    Very sound advice


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    #40
    ballyharpat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    www.daft.ie/1986234

    www.daft.ie/21460564

    The profits are there :)

    And this is the rental price for Killarney for the last 3/4 years.


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    #41
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    I've looked and while it wasn't a comprehensive look, I could not find any apartments in Dublin, selling for €130k with the same or identical apartments renting for €1150pm. If other people have found lots of them could they please put up some links. To both the rental ads and and the sale ads. I know there are numerous properties throughout the country where there are decent rental yields to be had. It's possible to buy a house in a nice estate in Limerick for €85,000 that is very likely to rent for €650pm. But in most of the country house prices are static or falling while rental prices are heavily subsidised by government intervention in the form of the Rent Supplement. The Dublin market is completely different to the rest of the country at the moment, so I would like to see examples of the properties which marathonic is saying he has seen.


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    #42
    Dredd_J
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Dredd_J


    iguana wrote: »
    I've looked and while it wasn't a comprehensive look, I could not find any apartments in Dublin, selling for €130k with the same or identical apartments renting for €1150pm. If other people have found lots of them could they please put up some links. To both the rental ads and and the sale ads. I know there are numerous properties throughout the country where there are decent rental yields to be had. It's possible to buy a house in a nice estate in Limerick for €85,000 that is very likely to rent for €650pm. But in most of the country house prices are static or falling while rental prices are heavily subsidised by government intervention in the form of the Rent Supplement. The Dublin market is completely different to the rest of the country at the moment, so I would like to see examples of the properties which marathonic is saying he has seen.

    You are doing something wrong. I did the search last night and found them in minutes. Lots of them. Im on the phone now for the next few days so cant do the search for you. I suggest you try again and take into account all the ones less than 130k too.


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    #43
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Victor wrote: »
    So, after 13 years, they might break even?

    If you compound the 2% inflation target- you get close on a 36-38% sum over a 14 year period- which means inflation alone will have dragged them out of NE after 14 years.

    BOI have advised they plan to place 1,500 Dublin houses on the market in September and October- should be a hair-raising experience for anyone who is selling and expecting continued increases in the area in the short-term.


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    #44
    chris85
    Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    If you compound the 2% inflation target- you get close on a 36-38% sum over a 14 year period- which means inflation alone will have dragged them out of NE after 14 years.

    BOI have advised they plan to place 1,500 Dublin houses on the market in September and October- should be a hair-raising experience for anyone who is selling and expecting continued increases in the area in the short-term.

    I heard about BOI releasing houses but didn't hear it was just Dublin. That would be interesting.


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    #45
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    chris85 wrote: »
    I heard about BOI releasing houses but didn't hear it was just Dublin. That would be interesting.

    Its a one-off glut of property they've been sitting on.
    Its expected it'll make the other lenders abandon their previous reticence and start foreclosing particularly on BTLs where they may previously have been of a mind to negotiate. I'm guessing Ulster Bank and PTSB are most likely to follow suit.

    All-in-all- the numbers are still low- but it is volume in a starved market- and may drive sellers who have been sitting on the side lines, out into the open- so even if it is only 1,500 homes- it may have a disproportionate impact, insofar as it makes other players show their hands.........

    In for an interesting Q4 2014/Q1/2 2015 in the Dublin market.

    At the end of the day- none, or very very little, of this is vacant property- so it is not going to do anything for the lack of housing availability- its simply a little grease in the buying and selling mechanisms- nothing more, nothing less.


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    #46
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,881 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Dredd_J wrote: »
    You are doing something wrong. I did the search last night and found them in minutes. Lots of them. Im on the phone now for the next few days so cant do the search for you.
    I'd also be interested in seeing a few of these apartments, such a pity that you had to go on the phone for a few days :rolleyes:


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    #47
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    If you compound the 2% inflation target- you get close on a 36-38% sum over a 14 year period- which means inflation alone will have dragged them out of NE after 14 years.

    BOI have advised they plan to place 1,500 Dublin houses on the market in September and October- should be a hair-raising experience for anyone who is selling and expecting continued increases in the area in the short-term.

    I didnt read Dublin anywhere in the story from a quick Google: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/bank-of-ireland-to-stir-up-market-with-sale-of-1500-homes-30478683.html

    Is there another source?


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    #48
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    I didnt read Dublin anywhere in the story from a quick Google: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/bank-of-ireland-to-stir-up-market-with-sale-of-1500-homes-30478683.html

    Is there another source?

    No, just the Bank of Ireland press release from Thursday.


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    #49
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    No, just the Bank of Ireland press release from Thursday.

    The only link i can see from Thursday relates to a payments delay

    http://www.bankofireland.com/about-bank-of-ireland/press-room/press-releases/year/2014/


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    #50
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Barely Hedged wrote: »
    The only link i can see from Thursday relates to a payments delay

    http://www.bankofireland.com/about-bank-of-ireland/press-room/press-releases/year/2014/

    I'm not in work this week- I'll see if I can dig it out next week.


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    #51
    woodseb
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭woodseb


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    No, just the Bank of Ireland press release from Thursday.

    I think the point is the BOI didn't specify where the houses would be sold so unlikely that they would all go into the Dublin market


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    #52
    Barely Hedged
    Closed Accounts Posts: 992 ✭✭✭Barely Hedged


    woodseb wrote: »
    I think the point is the BOI didn't specify where the houses would be sold so unlikely that they would all go into the Dublin market

    Thats what i was thinking, given the Independent text


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    #53
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Its a one-off glut of property they've been sitting on.
    Its expected it'll make the other lenders abandon their previous reticence and start foreclosing particularly on BTLs where they may previously have been of a mind to negotiate. I'm guessing Ulster Bank and PTSB are most likely to follow suit.

    All-in-all- the numbers are still low- but it is volume in a starved market- and may drive sellers who have been sitting on the side lines, out into the open- so even if it is only 1,500 homes- it may have a disproportionate impact, insofar as it makes other players show their hands.........

    In for an interesting Q4 2014/Q1/2 2015 in the Dublin market.

    At the end of the day- none, or very very little, of this is vacant property- so it is not going to do anything for the lack of housing availability- its simply a little grease in the buying and selling mechanisms- nothing more, nothing less.

    For sure. I think the final three months this year is going to be like a mini perfect storm for property investors because the capital gains tax exemption ends on the 31st December so any investor sitting on the fence right now is going to make a move before the 31st or else not make a move at all. The Capital Gains exemption coming to an end is going to flush a lot of investors out of the woodwork and I think Bank of Ireland are cognisant of that which is probably why they're releasing these 1,500 properties now before the year is up. They themselves must realise that investor money will run dry in January so I think their timing of this dump on the market is pretty good.


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    #54
    Villa05
    Registered Users Posts: 4,513 ✭✭✭Villa05


    Bank of ireland have a history of good timing. was it 2006 when they sold there HQ in Dublin


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    #55
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Villa05 wrote: »
    Bank of ireland have a history of good timing. was it 2006 when they sold there HQ in Dublin

    They also negotiated a reappraisal of the rent-back on a number of sites, after the boom bust. They really had the best of many worlds.


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    #56
    Mr.McLovin
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭Mr.McLovin


    woodseb wrote: »
    I think the point is the BOI didn't specify where the houses would be sold so unlikely that they would all go into the Dublin market

    I would be guessing they would mostly be made up for the Dublin market, why would they bother dumping more houses on falling/stagnant markets, no?


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    #57
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ballyharpat wrote: »
    If you want to buy two apartments for 130k -for both- and make e600 per apartment per month, then look on Daft and check out Killarney-Barrys lane, that's the low side of rent for a 2 bed. also, check out the price for a rental, in the town for a 2 bed apartment......
    But what is the vacancy rate during winter?


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    #58
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    Villa05 wrote: »
    Bank of ireland have a history of good timing. was it 2006 when they sold there HQ in Dublin

    But continued to make multi million euro loans to property developers throughout 2006, 2007 and into 2008. Surely if they saw it coming, they'd have thought feck lads sell the buildings and stop giving out development loans like Anglo. Let them sink


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    #59
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    But continued to make multi million euro loans to property developers throughout 2006, 2007 and into 2008. Surely if they saw it coming, they'd have thought feck lads sell the buildings and stop giving out development loans like Anglo. Let them sink

    Of all the Irish banks, they were the least invested when the crunch came.


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    #60
    NyOmnishambles
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭NyOmnishambles


    Cuddlesworth wrote: »
    Of all the Irish banks, they were the least invested when the crunch came.

    That is mainly because they were slow to the party

    They had it as their selling point that they were blue chip and that people would get solid but not spectacular returns off them

    But when they saw the returns all the other boyoos were making they felt they were being left behind and jumped on the band wagon with gusto

    it was more by luck than judgement imo


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    #61
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,615 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    But continued to make multi million euro loans to property developers throughout 2006, 2007 and into 2008. Surely if they saw it coming, they'd have thought feck lads sell the buildings and stop giving out development loans like Anglo. Let them sink

    I always thought that weird myself. On one hand by selling a lot of their banks BOI were sending a signal to the market in 2006 that they felt property prices had reached their peak and leasing them back was a better option. But on the other hand their lending policies to those who didn't believe prices had hit their peak remained unchanged, in fact the sums lent in 2007-08 were probably larger than ever.

    It was almost like the person responsible for analysing the property market wasn't talking to the person responsible for commercial and development lending. Hindsight is a great thing but it seems to me at least some people in BOI management realised 2006 was a great time to sell and it turned out they were bang on the money. Shame their vision didn't extend to the rest of their business.


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