I just don't get it (Rant rant rant) FASTLANE SPOILERS

thebostoncrab · 23-02-2015 3:33pm #1

I don't get it.

I'm still trying to put together the entire booking of Fastlane, and I just can't the logic behind 95% of the decisions made.

I'm always been the "wait and see" guy and a firm believer that there is light at the end of the tunnel, like last year with Daniel Bryan getting beaten again and again, leading up to the obvious victory over HHH at Wrestlemania. But this year....I just don't get it.

You have the biggest heal in the company, Seth Rollins, not get involved with the decision in a tag match, instead it's the work of two 40 year old men who no fan is interested in that get the victory, pinning one of your most over faces in Dolph Ziggler.

You book one of your other most over faces, Dean Ambrose, to lose over and over again for incredibly stupid reasons that just make him look like a chump.

You make Rusev beat John Cena, but only after some interference which cheapens his victory. (Yes, he is the heel and the heel cheats to win, but if you want Rusev to look like the monster he is then have him cleanly beat Cena.)

Then, you have easily the most over guy in the company, across every single member of the audience in Daniel Bryan going into Wrestlemania now...with nothing. He isn't in the biggest matches, and there seems to be no natural feud for him to go into that makes sense for a Wrestlemania level match.

And yet we are lead to believe that Vince is acting in the best interest of the fans?

I just don't get it.

I look at my own job, and when our customers are giving us feedback on something they don't like, we don't stop and tell them they are wrong and keep trucking forward to fulfil what we want and what we only want; we give the customer what they expect. This attitude from Vince is like a child playing with his toys, or no more than a fan playing fantasy booking; it only serves to fulfil what he wants.

Watching NXT hammers this home more so than anything else. Here is a product that the fans love, that treats the fans with respect and actually seems to listen to what the fans want. If they cheer for someone that person gets pushed, if they don't get a reaction then they're gone. And this is the minor leagues of the WWE? Why can the place were the guys are supposed to learn how to work get it so right, only for the place they are aiming to be in get it so wrong over and over again?

I just don't get it.

I can't make any rational sense of what Vince is doing with the main product. I mean say what you will, but he has easily one of the strongest rosters the company has had in years, heck even since the early 00s. Why is it then that we are still relying on Kane and Big Show to go over the new talent? Vince is constantly so quick to point and laugh at the failings of WCW, yet he is making the exact same mistakes right now. There is only so much audiences can take, and lately it seems like they have had enough.

Shareholders are angry, talent is upset and it seems like Vince is ignoring all the signs. I have been a fan since I was 3, and yet here I am on the eve of my 28th birthday and for the first time I'm actually questioning why I bother any more. And I love the sport, I've written about the sport in a number of publications and heck there was even wrestling references during my wedding! I shouldn't have these ****ing thoughts yet I am!

Watching NJPW hammers home everything great about wrestling. Watching NXT showcases that the WWE can deliver, and if they had that product as the main presentation they'd be laughing all the way to the bank...yet it's not happening.

I just don't get it. Can someone, ANYONE, show me one single thing that explains the logic behind Vinces booking of the WWE for the past few months? I can forgive so much of years gone by, but Jesus since the 2014 Rumble it just seems like he has lost the plot.

Stereomaniac · 23-02-2015 3:46pm

The only thing that I can take from what happened to Dean Ambrose last night is that maybe they're waiting for WrestleMania.

CSF · 23-02-2015 3:46pm

My guess is that it's coming down to TV ratings. That's the only explanation I can offer because the booking veers from the bizarre to the stupid.

My only guess is that the likes of Ambrose, Ziggler and Bryan aren't doing good ratings, but the likes of Reigns, Wyatt and Kane are.

That's all I can come up with even though it's not what Id expect to be the case.

Nody · 23-02-2015 3:48pm

thebostoncrab wrote: »

Watching NXT hammers this home more so than anything else. Here is a product that the fans love, that treats the fans with respect and actually seems to listen to what the fans want. If they cheer for someone that person gets pushed, if they don't get a reaction then they're gone. And this is the minor leagues of the WWE? Why can the place were the guys are supposed to learn how to work get it so right, only for the place they are aiming to be in get it so wrong over and over again?

I'd guess because Vince don't have control over it (or care) and HHH does (yes I went there).

I just don't get it. Can someone, ANYONE, show me one single thing that explains the logic behind Vinces booking of the WWE for the past few months? I can forgive so much of years gone by, but Jesus since the 2014 Rumble it just seems like he has lost the plot.

Meglaomania; Vince is so convinced he's God of Wrestling that he alone will decide who's to go up and down and everyone else will cheer it eventually because he'll be right. The fact TNA lost the plot completely did not help as there's no alternatives (i.e. he's proven right since it was all his calls). The sooner Vince goes and HHH takes control the sooner the sinking ship will start to pump out the water and start to float imo.

Lithium93_ · 23-02-2015 3:56pm

The longer Vince stays in power, the more damage he's going to do, he's what 69/70 now?, he should be retired and enjoying his life's work, and letting Triple H & Stephanie run the ship. And when the day comes that Vince finally does decide to call it a day, several of Vince's YES-MEN need to cleared out too. The whole writing/booking teams are in need of a reboot.

WinnyThePoo · 23-02-2015 4:02pm

Ziggler not being pinned by Seth Rollins was such a mind****.. WHY WHY WHY!!

rovert · 23-02-2015 4:06pm

Sadly this is the cross we "have to" bare:

At least the OP has discovered New Japan and NXT so I don't have to do that whinge. Lucha Underground and ROH can be really great TV shows depending on the week too but this thread isn't really about them.

As Lithium93_points out her is getting on a bit. Like I said a few years ago Roman Reigns most likely isn't just Vince having the horn for a lad with muscles. He's 70 in August he is probably operating with his mortality and Chairmanship in mind. Reigns is likely Vince's attempt at leaving a legacy. His one last megastar wrestler. Which would be fine if everything else was clicking but it isn't.

Moneymaker · 23-02-2015 4:09pm

It's sad as Vince's megastar was on the other side of the ring, carrying his golden boys gassed out ass, like he's been carried by everyone.

Yet said megastar is again disrespected, snubbed and ignored. It's disgusting, frankly. We should all be looking forward to a dream match, instead we are waiting for a train wreck.

DM_7 · 23-02-2015 4:09pm

The Reigns booking sees to have increased the annoyance with the booking in other parts of the card. Rightly so.

Likes of Kane and Show are likely viewed as franchise guys for the brand. Recognisable faces on tv or at live events for more casual viewers. They have to win from time to time, may as well be on a B PPV. They don't mind looking silly for half the year. They can be trusted to do what's asked of them.

I can see why they need guys like that around even if I don't find then interesting.

ERG89 · 23-02-2015 4:14pm

Nody wrote: »

Meglaomania; Vince is so convinced he's God of Wrestling that he alone will decide who's to go up and down and everyone else will cheer it eventually because he'll be right. The sooner Vince goes and HHH takes control the sooner the sinking ship will start to pump out the water and start to float imo.

Vince's ego probably gets recharged when he turns up only to see bellend fans bowing to him strutting down the aisle. But your right Vince doesn't care about NXT but i'm not convinced HHH is going to bring better results financially.
While NXT is enjoyable to watch (a guess as I haven't seen it since Sky dropped it in 2015 & I don't intend on subscribing to the Network; even $9.99 seems too much for the current product) its a product sold to fans who own the Network who are obviously your more ardend audience and easiest to please. Would anyone want to see Zayn or Neville in Ziggler's place?

Stereomaniac · 23-02-2015 4:23pm

Well, I would like to see Adrian Neville and Sami Zayn on the main roster but I wouldn't like to see them in situations like Dolph Ziggler was in last night. I was projecting here last year that it would be so great if Adrian Neville was the one to come up from NXT and catch Rusev unawares and upset him big time on an episode of Main Event or something. But I guess we just have to wait and see what the future brings. The product ebbs and flows.

thebostoncrab · 23-02-2015 4:25pm

I don't want to see anyone in Ziggler's place.

The major issue with the booking is that Vince seems to only have eyes on one guy and that's that. No one else is allowed to get near the main event when Vince is booking one particular guy. At the moment it's Reigns. This is causing so many people to get lost in the shuffle, booked in feuds that go nowhere and in matches that fail time and time again to showcase what they can do.

It wouldn't be half as bad if Vince decided to let the upper cards be booked by a separate group with the intention of keeping them strong, at least then guys will be given time to shine and allow them to come and go from the main event as needed. It's all such simple stuff yet it's not happening.

But the other problem is that we all know what Vince can do. He can create magic, he can book massive shows with rosters that don't leave anyone behind or make people look weak. Everyone has a purpose and is able to grow. Does Vince place too much trust with writers who actually don't come from a wrestling background? Perhaps this is the real problem that needs sorting out. There was a report before that if you applied to work for the WWE and let it up in any way that you were a fan then you wouldn't get the job. Let people who come from the business work for the business.

Kankan14 · 23-02-2015 4:28pm

Amazing to have so many f**k ups on your last B show before Mania genuine opportunities to build or carry on from Rumble with awesome feuds. Instead we have ignorance is bliss from Vinny.

btw I have no problem with Rusev not going over clean just good he went over. Ziggler pins Rollins or vice versa would have been fine too.
The less said about Reigns the better, by far my least liked shield member and he is the one getting pushed to the moon.

Also early happy birthday wishes TBC.

sky88 · 23-02-2015 4:28pm

The worst thing there doing is anytime they see a guy whos big like reigns and he was getting over as the monster of the shield wwe did what they always seem to do the last 10 years and force him down out throats and try to make us except that hes suddenly the next big thing. this is the same thing they did with cena and why i started to dislike him. Even daniel bryan had a slow build of popularity and nows he clearly the most over guy in the company.

DM_7 · 23-02-2015 4:29pm

On Reigns and Bryan.

WWE have an eye on what will get new people to watch. Reigns has the look of someone that will make someone pay attention, more that Bryan ever can.

They don't look at any other wrestling companies and think I would like to trade places or be more like them. New Japan or ROH are not viewed as relevant

Booking NXT is simple for someone like Triple H as it's aimed at a specific audience.

The overall problem for me is not Reigns getting a big push, its the lack of something worthwhile for people like Bryan. His path should be much clearer.

I am a firm believer that they need Raw to be Raw and Smackdown to be more traditional to satisfy it's casual and core audiences.

ERG89 · 23-02-2015 4:48pm

DM_7 wrote: »

On Reigns and Bryan.

WWE have an eye on what will get new people to watch. Reigns has the look of someone that will make someone pay attention, more that Bryan ever can.

The overall problem for me is not Reigns getting a big push, its the lack of something worthwhile for people like Bryan. His path should be much clearer.

I am a firm believer that they need Raw to be Raw and Smackdown to be more traditional to satisfy it's casual and core audiences.

WWE were in a tricky spot as they gave Reigns the push and if they backed out he was dead in the water long term. I was shocked they didn't have a Triple Threat match for Mania as having Reigns beat Bryan does nothing for his popularity even if Bryan getting in the Title match would have been history repeating itself. Bryan vs Sheamus is logical if the latter turns heel but it'll probably be a match that has a brutal positioning in the card and time allotted come WrestleMania. Feel sorry for Bryan as when he got to the top last year his body gave out on him

ThunbergsAreGo · 23-02-2015 4:51pm

The way people go on about Bryan you would swear he is jobbing every week. He is being treated better than 90% of the roster.

I only casually watch it to be honest (mostly read the results) but he doesnt really interest me and the Bryan or noone reaction amongst some fans annoys me

JP Liz V1 · 23-02-2015 4:54pm

Is this the aftermath thread

CSF · 23-02-2015 5:27pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

The way people go on about Bryan you would swear he is jobbing every week. He is being treated better than 90% of the roster.

I only casually watch it to be honest (mostly read the results) but he doesnt really interest me and the Bryan or noone reaction amongst some fans annoys me

He should be treated better than 100% of the roster because he is better than them.

thebostoncrab · 23-02-2015 5:45pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

The way people go on about Bryan you would swear he is jobbing every week. He is being treated better than 90% of the roster.

I only casually watch it to be honest (mostly read the results) but he doesnt really interest me and the Bryan or noone reaction amongst some fans annoys me

You don't need to win every week to be kept in a strong position, but it's about how you present the wrestlers wins and loses.

Bryan has not been treated with the respect that he has worked for and deserves. Look at this years Rumble match if you want evidence of that. The manor in which he was dumped out of the ring was a middle finger to him and his fans, and it made his return all that less important, like if HHH had of lost the rumble when he returned from injury; it makes no sense to build the "I'm back and on my way to victory" angle if he looses.

ThunbergsAreGo · 23-02-2015 5:48pm

thebostoncrab wrote: »

You don't need to win every week to be kept in a strong position, but it's about how you present the wrestlers wins and loses.

Bryan has not been treated with the respect that he has worked for and deserves. Look at this years Rumble match if you want evidence of that. The manor in which he was dumped out of the ring was a middle finger to him and his fans, and it made his return all that less important, like if HHH had of lost the rumble when he returned from injury; it makes no sense to build the "I'm back and on my way to victory" angle if he looses.

I do understand that (and admit I dont watch it all that much) but was Ziggler treated much better?

Who apart from Bryan would people have been happy winning?

I must admit I find Rollins fantastic

Mr.Nice Guy · 23-02-2015 5:58pm

I agree with almost everything tbc said (P.S. I always thought he was older than me and it turns out I was wrong so that's surprised me :pac: ). I thought most of the booking on the show was terrible, but with regards the two final matches, I didn't really mind it.

I figured Rusev would be losing to Cena at Mania so I was concerned last night would have some BS disqualification finish to set up the Mania return match, but at least they gave us a finish. While I would have liked Cena losing clean, I can forgive them protecting the golden goose.

The main event match result surprised me as I didn't see Bryan losing clean. I really can't see them chancing Reigns vs Lesnar as the main event so either it goes on in the middle with a lot of bells and whistles, or, as I think will happen, Rollins will insert himself into the equation; the briefcase option is a nice Plan B they have if they feel they need to use it (as I suspect they will).

I hated Reigns winning the Rumble and thought Bryan vs Lesnar was a better story, but given he's the guy they've been building up, and since they seem to have realised the goofy stuff ain't gonna cut it with Reigns (for now, at least) I can get on board with it.

Some may disagree but I sense that Bryan doesn't quite have the steam behind him that he did last year. I recall Meltzer recently noting that Bryan had quite a lot of naysayers at a recent show where he faced off against Reigns. This was a casual fan audience and I don't think they are into Bryan as much as they were last year.

In fairness to Bryan a lot of this is down to the way he's been presented. If they had made more of the difficult 2014 he has endured, I think he would have garnered way more sympathy. (And unlike the Cena storyline a few years back talking about Cena's difficult year which was mostly a load of crap, Bryan's is real and people know it). They could have done this for Bryan, but instead he essentially got into the main event equation by complaining about not getting a title shot and riding a wave of discontent (which annoyed a lot of Reigns fans). Plus, as I think Meltzer pointed out as well, they had Bryan lose to Wyatt shortly after returning so you would think that ought to hurt his chances of getting back into the title equation looking at it logically. Again, this is not Bryan's fault but it's not Reigns's fault either.

Obviously the hardcore fans - who will be at Mania and the post-Mania Raw - love him and will be behind him, but much like the way these crowds despise Cena and that hate never translates to the casual demographic, conversely I don't see the 'Bryan love' from the hardcore demographic translating to the casual fanbase.

I'm growing weary of Bryan now too tbh; he isn't being booked well and it shows. While I don't agree with Vince's choice of pushing Reigns at this moment in time, at least it's a young guy; and not some forty-something, fifty-something that other companies in the past loved pushing at the expense of the next generation.

JP Liz V1 · 23-02-2015 6:02pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

I do understand that (and admit I dont watch it all that much) but was Ziggler treated much better?

Who apart from Bryan would people have been happy winning?

I must admit I find Rollins fantastic

Christian

I'm curious backstage/off screen it is HHH/Steph or Vince that is against Bryan?

irs · 23-02-2015 6:07pm

Given how over Bryan is there's really no excuse for him to be put into a nothing match at Wrestlemania. If they don't want to put him in the main event then that's fair enough but he should at least be in one of the top 3 or 4 matches with a proper feud behind it. When you at some of the people who are going to be above him on the card I can see why people are annoyed.

The argument in favour of Reigns seems to be that he would appeal to new or casual fans but I'm not sure about that. He has long hair and muscles which is what gets Vince going but that's overated in terms of making someone a main eventer. He's not that great a talker, has no real persona and he's still wearing the Big Bossman's Attitude era gear. Bryan looks ridiculous with his beard but it makes him stand out a lot more than most wrestlers and I can actually imagine the type of person who would be a Bryan fan more than I can imagine a Reigns fan.

If you look at most of the big babyfaces in the last twenty years it mostly heels that were turned face by popular demand. Austin, Rock, Cena, Batista, Punk, Bryan, even as far back as the likes of Savage, Piper and the Undertaker. Reigns was a heel in the Shield but a proper run as a singles heel could be exactly what he needs to be what WWE want him to be. A feud with Cena at Wrestlemania would have been perfect for him.

sky88 · 23-02-2015 6:13pm

The thing i really dont get its not like bryan is over with mostly with the diehards, hes over with kids and the diehard fans. it just makes no sense for him not to have a program going or any sign of it.

Lord TSC · 23-02-2015 6:38pm

I clicked on the PW board earlier by accident, saw the topic title and found it pretty easy to guess what was coming

sky88 wrote: »

The thing i really dont get its not like bryan is over with mostly with the diehards, hes over with kids and the diehard fans. it just makes no sense for him not to have a program going or any sign of it.

I think that's the real bugbear for me; he's one of the few wrestlers who connects with every single fan out there, from the little kids who bring their parents and buys excessive merch, to the diehard smark who wants "wrestling". He's the closest thing to a "whole package" they have right now, except for his look. Even then, Austin is an example of how fans will buy an "everyman"; people can relate to an "ugly goatface" like Bryan more than they can the likes of Reigns.

I genuinely don't mind the Rusev/Cena match; if anything, I thought it was the one match which was smartly booked. Not just because Cena lost, but because Rusev came out of the match looking better, and thus looking like a better obstacle for Cena to overcome. Cena regularly beats 2, 3 or 4 other people, so that was a pretty damn clean win for Cena, makes Rusev look dominate now and makes Cena look better when he wins. It was booking 101, and works.

But every other match....

I've given up on Ambrose, personally. He's a ****ing idiot who continually costs himself through sheer stupidity.

Ziggler gets the odd win here and there but will never amount to anything.

Ambrose is just about saved by his character being a cowardly heel, but he really should have been taking the win last night.

Ryback is over but God knows why; he does nothing.

Cesaro and Kidd looked good actually, but are combating months/years of being treated like jobbers, and if we're honest, they'll probably drop the titles pretty quickly. Probably back to the Usos at Mania.

WWE don't care about fans, or at least, they don't care about fans who have a self-formed opinion. You'll see the NXT guys called up to be the next generation of jobbers.

They'll push people that fans vocally say they don't want pushed, and then be amazed that the person isn't getting over. Every now and again, they'll push someone halfheartedly and erratically, before just stopping out of boredom, and then blame them for not getting over.

At this stage, I wish they'd just move Ziggler, Bryan and Ambrose etc over to NXT, and just push it as the "Smark Show". If they don't want smarks watching Raw (and they obviously don't, given they routinely stick two fingers up at them), then just move those guys, let them make NXT a proper show people want to see, give them the chance to grow that brand so it can tour round itself and try to fight the tide.

Bounty Hunter · 23-02-2015 7:10pm

Vince decided Reigns was next. He had him continuously be made look strong. He had him get the record number of eliminations from a rumble, tie the survivor series elimination record and then win the rumble.

All this was done while Lesnar was ending the streak, dismantling Cena at Summerslam and all around looking like an unstopable beast.

The fans vocally pointed out they didn't want Reigns shoved down their throats at the rumble but too much work has been put into giving him the massive rub for vince to stop now so even if it didnt work with rocky lifting it in victory get Bryan to shake his hand and send him to mania to get sh!t on by the smarks

Andersonisgod · 23-02-2015 7:14pm

You've articulated everything I've been thinking lately BostonCrab. What's really sparked it for me is that there's an alternative now whereas before there wasn't. In the past you just had to accept what WWE was serving up, like it or lump it you stick with it.

I was totally hooked on NJPW after Wrestle Kingdom 9, I think a lot of people who saw the show were. The launch of NJPW World has made a previously tough-to follow brand into a genuine alternative available for everybody to avail of. I'm currently following NJPW in real time and going back over each of their 2013 and 2014 shows. It's been an absolute joy to watch, I almost feel like I'm stealing from NJPW given how low their price is. I could go more in depth but, to me, a WWE fan since the age of 6, the difference between the two products couldn't be more stark, one is like a Disney kids tv show, the other is the wrestling equivalent of Breaking Bad or True Detective.

I will say I've enjoyed NXT too, imo that brand is proof that WWE can deliver an entertaining product within a style they are comfortable with. It's significantly better than the main show.

Palo Alto · 23-02-2015 7:35pm

OP had a tinge of this about it!

http://youtu.be/BvTNyKIGXiI

Of course I agree with most of it, but I love wrestling for the screw ups too.

brianregan09 · 23-02-2015 7:47pm

Why not put him with taker

DM_7 · 23-02-2015 8:09pm

Thinking about this a little more and 5 weeks is plenty to give Bryan a meaningful Mania match.

If his course was outlined a few weeks ago we would have ended up with a match at fast lane (that would have suffered a lot of the annoying booking the fast lane matches had) and a rematch at Mania.

Outside of that there he should not be in the main event this year (imo). Mainly because he missed a good chunk of the least year injured, an injury that medium and long term his future ability to continue to compete is less than clear. In that context it would be mad to put him in the main event again and not use Brock as a chance to build someone else up by association or beating him.

For most of the year Bryan missed WWE struggled to put together main events for their specials/ppv's that would grab attention. No Punk, No Bryan, No Batista, Brock part time meant they were in the main, left with Cena or former Shield Members leading their events.

I can see why Reigns was selected to be the one out of the three who got the big Vince Push since its Brock he is facing. I still think that this year it should be Rollins.

I just don't get it (Rant rant rant) *FASTLANE SPOILERS*

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I just don't get it (Rant rant rant) FASTLANE SPOILERS