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Sex education from the religious. What could possibly go wrong?

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    #32
    Skrynesaver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver


    No formal sex ed in school, (all male, CBS, finished mid 80s), extremely catholic upbringing, put the details together through deciphering "dirty" jokes and reading.

    I'm gathering that those who went through school after the AIDS epidemic got a better quality of sex education than those of us who went through school before AIDS was public knowledge.


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    #33
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Skrynesaver wrote: »
    No formal sex ed in school, (all male, CBS, finished mid 80s), extremely catholic upbringing, put the details together through deciphering "dirty" jokes and reading.

    I'm gathering that those who went through school after the AIDS epidemic got a better quality of sex education than those of us who went through school before AIDS was public knowledge.

    Not at all. I was in school in the 90's and Aids was never mentioned.


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    #34
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    We had Accord in recently to discuss RSE with our 6th class. I have to say I found them excellent. Very accurate, clear and not in any way religious. The only reference they made was to having a baby that the best situation is when you are in a loving relationship.


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    #35
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,189 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'm reminded of the sex education scene from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, couldn't find a good clip on youtube except for one that needs a login so... meh. If you don't get the joke then just watch the film, and everything else they've ever done if you haven't already :)

    CBS boys' school, 80s, don't recall anything sex-ed related in the school itself apart from biology class and, apropos of nothing at all, a 15-minute spittle-flecked rant against the evils of condoms from our English teacher at the start of English class one day :confused:

    AIDS was definitely a thing then but was never mentioned. Buying condoms was to all intents and purposes illegal anyway

    We did do a retreat in 6th year though, to some forsaken place in the midlands - middle of nowhere - an ex-Bord na Mona workers' accommodation block, it was like an abandoned East German army camp only colder. We were there for 2 nights I think, split into groups of 5 or 6 each with a priest or brother 'facilitator', talking about relationships and stuff (like they'd know :rolleyes: ) not sex per se, the thing I remembered best and enjoyed the best was not going on the bus with the others but getting a lift with 2 other lads in one of the few relatively sane teacher's Golf Mk1 GTI, first time I was ever in a car that could noticeably accelerate, not a BL or Fiat pos :p

    Somebody asked the priest in our group what was the weirdest thing he'd ever heard in confession, he said it was some guy 'who said he'd shagged a dog', I couldn't suppress a laugh :pac: then that night one of the lads who was a repeat leaving student and into drugs dropped an acid tab but got away with letting on it was a 'flashback'

    I'm sure some of them sneaked off to the pub in the town for a while earlier that night too, but I was never one who got to hang around with the cool crowd, quite the opposite. Several of my 'schoolmates' (and the teachers) were borderline psychopaths and I heard a few have been inside (not the teachers). Not many of either I'd p**s on if they were on fire and I didn't keep in contact with any of them.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #36
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Hmm. I got a bit of sex education I hadn't been...em...exposed to before on a school trip to the midlands too. I believe his name was "Devo", he had a wonderful two-tone mullet and he was from Coolock. Very informative. Not sure the parents signed off on there being 3 different schools there, but the trip was all about broadening your horizons so I dutifully went along with the remit...


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    #37
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,189 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Are we not men? We are 'Devo' :pac:

    I bet he was more Jocko than Homo :p(I can bet I'm going to have to explain this, for the more PC types.)

    Absolutely no freakin' way they would have allowed that sort of thing in our school. We were supposed to pretend the opposite sex simply didn't exist until our wedding day and then be perfect heterosexuals. I got bullied rotten for 'being gay' without the benefit of actually being gay, so I feel cheated.

    They actually staggered the break times and lunch times between our school and the nearby girls' secondary, just in case an occasion of temptation may somehow have arisen in spite of their horrific uniform :rolleyes:

    I only discovered wimmin in college and I had a lot of catching up to do so I was nearly finished there before I got up to speed :mad: thanks a bunch, repressed and sexual-sin obsessed 80s Ireland.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #38
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    I bet he was more Jocko than Homo :p

    This is true. Sadly, for me it was more a case of this
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjEq-r2agqc


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    #39
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    I graduated from a multi-denominational secondary school in 2012. I'd say my sex education was a weird mix of informative sex education on one side and religious bullsh*t on the other.

    The informative stuff was from Junior Cert science and a few guests from outside. My (all-boys Catholic) primary school also went over sex ed briefly (i.e. the function of the penis) and I can't really remember anything from religious whackos. The highlight of sex ed had to be a classmate fainting when the vagina was being described.

    The bullsh*t came, of course, from the religious side. The chaplain, an outwardly sweet woman in her 30s, was one of our SPHE teachers (they were cycled throughout the year). One week, she played this DVD by this Christian fundamentalist woman called Pam. I didn't pay much attention to it, as I usually used SPHE class to do homework so I had less books to carry home that evening. One thing that I remember was her converting a German man to her fundamentalism.

    Also, there was this group of Christian youth preachers (or whatever) that came around in 3rd year. We were given a choice between paying €5 to see them or get sent to a room for the day to do whatever. One thing they preached was that abstinence-before-marriage bullsh*t - one of my classmates noticed that one of the preachers - a guy in his early 20s - had a wedding ring, and asked him about it and the preacher went on about faithfulness to his wife.


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    #40
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Absolutely no freakin' way they would have allowed that sort of thing in our school. We were supposed to pretend the opposite sex simply didn't exist until our wedding day and then be perfect heterosexuals. I got bullied rotten for 'being gay' without the benefit of actually being gay, so I feel cheated.

    They actually staggered the break times and lunch times between our school and the nearby girls' secondary, just in case an occasion of temptation may somehow have arisen in spite of their horrific uniform :rolleyes:

    Crikey. Sounds woeful. Yes, Newpark was pretty progressive - although also lacking in sex ed, there was no repression. I was lucky.

    My Dad recalled once himself and a friend being dragged inside the neighbouring convent school (he went to Synge street CBS) by some nuns to show to the girls the disgusting perverted kind of beast they were to stay away from. He had only been walking past the school.

    Not much changed from the 50's seemingly :(


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    #41
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,189 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    I graduated from a multi-denominational secondary school in 2012.

    :eek:

    Clearasil & Hormones >>>>

    :pac:

    Oulwans & Oulfellas <<<<<

    :(

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #42
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,189 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I think most lads of my generation had little idea what to do when they actually did get to the 'holiest of holies' (TM Quentin Tarantino, Pulp Fiction) except horse it in there lad and hope for the best

    Similarly the 70s-born generation ladies had good intentions but no idea how to pleasure a man, someone tell them what a banjo string is and why yanking hard on it hurts, ffs!!! and when guys are pleasuring themselves they don't take a vice-grip and then yank it as far up and as far down as fast as possible, there is a reason why ladies, so don't think if enough is good then more is always better :)

    The internet porn generation presumably have none of these problems, because real life is just like porn except there are fewer busty ladies living alone with broken washing machines. Perhaps they 'know' more than we did, but do they understand any better, I have my doubts.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #43
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    The internet porn generation presumably have none of these problems, because real life is just like porn except there are fewer busty ladies living alone with broken washing machines. Perhaps they 'know' more than we did, but do they understand any better, I have my doubts.
    Oh I'm very doubtful too. The new porn generation have all of these problems and then some, afaik. Doesn't matter how much you got told or not told in the days of yore, access was what counted! I had no such info as the kids these days but was definitely better off than you in that I wasn't deliberately separated from the opposite sex, but only marginally better off in terms of knowing how to do anything.

    "Knowing" everything already is a whole new problem for this generation, in that how well does it really go when you think posing for the money shot is what it takes to excite your partner? SOOO much disinformation to be got from porn, it's distinctly unfunny. And is having a huge impact on people learning what they like/don't like for themselves by exploration. Turns out viewing doesn't really cut it as an educational tool (pun intended).


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    #44
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Similarly the 70s-born generation ladies had good intentions but no idea how to pleasure a man, someone tell them what a banjo string is and why yanking hard on it hurts, ffs!!! and when guys are pleasuring themselves they don't take a vice-grip and then yank it as far up and as far down as fast as possible, there is a reason why ladies, so don't think if enough is good then more is always better :)

    Speaking of 70's-born good intentions and strings, I learned quite quickly that guitar players were not for me. I'll leave the why of it to your imagination. Ouch.


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    #45
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,189 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Steel strings (calluses on left hand) or nylon strings (f-k off nails on the right hand)??

    (righthand-o-normic post, please read it in a mirror if you are sinister)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #46
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    purplecow1977 wrote: »
    The only reference they made was to having a baby that the best situation is when you are in a loving relationship.

    Sounds fair enough really - seems like the ideal situation to me


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    #47
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    I grew up in Germany, mixed school which is the norm.
    We had sex ed when we were around 13 in school. It was in biology classes. it was fairly matter of factly, mammals, menstruation, the act etc but the emotional side was touched as well. Contraception was covered at length.

    Looking back it was probably fairly well done. Of course it raised giggles and the like but what do you expect at that age. We wrote an exam about it too but again mostly in the context of biology and reproduction. It was fairly science like and looking back the only awkwardness came probably form the fact that we all knew this is something we weren't supposed to know about until then so it must be terribly special and secret and giggly and all that. I think had there been a more natural lead up to it - say some sort of high level education without the graphics - there wouldn't have been much fuss about it at all.
    You just knew there is something, why weren't you allowed to watch the late films and all that? That makes me think that the only awkwardness around the subject s the one we create for ourselves.

    I brought it up with my parents thats thats what we're doing in school and I guess they figured thats that covered then. No big man to man talks only about not doing anything stupid and contraception.


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    #48
    miamee
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 12,045 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    I went to a mixed gender community school 1990-95. Aside from doing the functional stuff in Biology, we also had a few different people come in to us to give talks. I specifically remember being brought to the science lecture room (both boys and girls) when we were in either third or fifth year for a talk. The guy giving the talk was there to talk about contraception, mainly benefits of condoms and showed us how to put one on properly - on a banana I think :o He told us all about how condoms used not be available and the trouble that had gone on when Virgin Megastore on Aston Quay started selling them in Dublin and that now they were more freely available, we should make use of them when needed.

    The school itself, though not great for some things, really made sure that we all knew about reproduction and contraception which is to their credit. It was in an area where teen pregnancy was not unusual at the time so I suppose they were doing their best to combat that. The parish priest would still have been on the board of the school then so I have no idea if he turned a blind eye to it, didn't know about it or was all for it. Would be interesting to know.


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    #49
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,412 ✭✭✭Harika


    Not from sex education in school, but from sex education at the pre-marriage course (2014), delivered from a woman in her 70s:
    When a woman is in good mood and has shiny hair, she is fertile
    Men are like a light switch and women are like a kettle


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    #50
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Oh, I forgot to mention: I just remembered that there was a stack of religion textbooks on a windowsill with c.150 pages in one of the classrooms my Junior Cert class went to for SPHE. I read it out of curiosity, and the bit about sex ed was full of abstinence bull****.


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    #51
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    [...] the bit about sex ed was full of abstinence [...]
    If abstinence is sex-ed, then atheism is a religion.


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    #52
    JaseBelleVie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 936 ✭✭✭JaseBelleVie


    Also, there was a book that I had the misfortune to read one time when I was about 14 or so. It was a really horrible book with some really warped ideas in it. Can't remember the name of it now, but it was a proper conservative tome that attempted to put a "cool" spin on the whole "sex is bad"-schtick.

    One that really stuck out for me, was the passages where it very perfunctorily discussed oral sex. It stated that oral sex was wrong unless it was between married couples.

    Seriously? One of the ways in which teenagers could actually give each other sexual pleasure without having intercourse and taking all the risks associated with intercourse, and you decide that oral sex is something that only married people should do? What a joke.

    Teenagers are going to be sexually active, get over it. And in all honesty, because you're never going to beat hormones and horniness, oral sex should probably be pushed more as an alternative to full intercourse, IMO. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that, but I think that if they are going to be sexually active, let it be with the least amount of risk (of disease, of pregnancy, etc.) as possible.


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    #53
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    JaseBelleVie wrote: »
    Also, there was a book that I had the misfortune to read one time when I was about 14 or so. It was a really horrible book with some really warped ideas in it. Can't remember the name of it now, but it was a proper conservative tome that attempted to put a "cool" spin on the whole "sex is bad"-schtick.

    One that really stuck out for me, was the passages where it very perfunctorily discussed oral sex. It stated that oral sex was wrong unless it was between married couples.

    Seriously? One of the ways in which teenagers could actually give each other sexual pleasure without having intercourse and taking all the risks associated with intercourse, and you decide that oral sex is something that only married people should do? What a joke.

    Teenagers are going to be sexually active, get over it. And in all honesty, because you're never going to beat hormones and horniness, oral sex should probably be pushed more as an alternative to full intercourse, IMO. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that, but I think that if they are going to be sexually active, let it be with the least amount of risk (of disease, of pregnancy, etc.) as possible.

    Certainly from the "official" catholic perspective, any sexual activity that can't lead to pregnancy is verboten, even inside marriage. Anything outside marriage is essentially not on at all, at all.


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    #54
    purplecow1977
    Registered Users Posts: 2,877 ✭✭✭purplecow1977


    Also I think there were many people, who wouldn't feel comfortable giving or receiving oral sex if they weren't in a committed relationship. Maybe not married, but not just a fling either.


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    #55
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Nodin wrote: »
    Certainly from the "official" catholic perspective, any sexual activity that can't lead to pregnancy is verboten, even inside marriage.
    Yes, I believe that's the Vatican's official line - all sex must have some possibility of procreation. But with the exception of male sex with women who are beyond child-bearing age, in which case, I believe the church will permit a divorce (am willing to be corrected on this, if mistaken).

    It's all about producing babies, within a catholic-controlled environment - coincidentally, an environment likely to produce babies who are indoctrinated with catholicism, and are therefore likely to pass on the same meme.


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    #56
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    robindch wrote: »
    But with the exception of male sex with women who are beyond child-bearing age, in which case, I believe the church will permit a divorce

    How kind! Good to know there's a legitimate reason for divorce...:pac:


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    #57
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Any sex act outside of penis in vagina is strictly speaking, fornication in the eyes of the church, so they can't promote it as an alternative. A generation ago even looking at your own body was deemed sinful, women got churched after a baby, because despite being married, catholic and conceived within the parameters of what was a holy and sacred union, she somehow picked up a sin related to it during the birth and needed to undergo a blessing before she could go back to mass and take communion.


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    #58
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    robindch wrote: »
    Yes, I believe that's the Vatican's official line - all sex must have some possibility of procreation. But with the exception of male sex with women who are beyond child-bearing age, in which case, I believe the church will permit a divorce (am willing to be corrected on this, if mistaken).

    It's all about producing babies, within a catholic-controlled environment - coincidentally, an environment likely to produce babies who are indoctrinated with catholicism, and are therefore likely to pass on the same meme.

    Not sure about the divorce, but you are allowed to have sex if unable to conceive as long as the act would produce children if it were possible to do so (and no, I've no notion where they got that or the rest from, other than their arses).


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    #59
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Nodin wrote: »
    [...] you are allowed to have sex if unable to conceive as long as the act would produce children if it were possible to do so [...]
    Where's all this documented? I remember reading some long, wordy, hand-wavey thing over coffee one morning a few years back, but its indirection was such that it was virtually impossible to know what was in and what was out.(*)



    (*) if you know what I mean.


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    #60
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    robindch wrote: »
    Where's all this documented? I remember reading some long, wordy, hand-wavey thing over coffee one morning a few years back, but its indirection was such that it was virtually impossible to know what was in and what was out.(*)



    (*) if you know what I mean.

    11 and 12.
    http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html

    Goes back before that, but that's the one usually referenced.


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    #61
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    JaseBelleVie wrote: »
    It stated that oral sex was wrong unless it was between married couples.

    So all the married couples go into a room, put their car keys in a bowl.... :pac:


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