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Testomonies Of People Who have Claimed To See Heaven or Hell

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    #32
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Like Howard Storm he describes how it is to be layed up on a hospital bed dying, these thoughts enter the head, what if they were right? When he becomes aware of his destination he struggles against it and rides through the night, fighting to stay here, to repent and accept Christ while he's still alive.


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    #33
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Look up nurses forums also, especially in hospices, a lot of this goes unreported. To see a man or woman become fearful in the final stages must be harrowing.

    To quote Thomas Hobbes, "Hell is Truth seen too late"


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    #34
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    I looked up Howard Storm and his account is compelling. I would rather he discovered Catholicism, and he may yet if he is still alive, but any move from hard core atheism to Christianity is always a good thing.


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    #35
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭ABC101


    Pretty amazing account there by Howard Storm, I thought the answer to the question of which Religion is best was very good. Anything which gets the person closer to God!!

    It also ties in with numerous other witness statements from others who experienced NDE.


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    #36
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    After watching Howard Storm, I just want to say to you all that I love you all. Even you Tommy2Bad! God Bless you all.


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    #37
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭ABC101


    newmug wrote: »
    After watching Howard Storm, I just want to say to you all that I love you all. Even you Tommy2Bad! God Bless you all.

    I love you too sweetheart!!


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    #38
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Easy with the man-on-man love there guys...


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    #39
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Easy with the man-on-man love there guys...

    Its Jesus-type love. Platonic love for your fellow man. I dunno what ABC101 is thinking!!!


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    #40
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭ABC101


    newmug wrote: »
    Its Jesus-type love. Platonic love for your fellow man. I dunno what ABC101 is thinking!!!

    I'm just kidding.....in fact I was kind being ironic...

    The quote... "I love you too sweetheart"..... is from which film?

    There is probably a lot of films with this quote... but one, kind of stands out?

    hint.....The lead character only speaks 18 lines or about 100 words in the entire film.


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    #41
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    ABC101 wrote: »
    I'm just kidding.....in fact I was kind being ironic...

    The quote... "I love you too sweetheart"..... is from which film?

    There is probably a lot of films with this quote... but one, kind of stands out?

    hint.....The lead character only speaks 18 lines or about 100 words in the entire film.





    Pulp Fiction???


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    #42
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭ABC101


    newmug wrote: »
    Pulp Fiction???
    Afraid not..

    O.K.... another hint.... Film was released in 1984.


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    #43
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    ABC101 wrote: »
    Afraid not..

    O.K.... another hint.... Film was released in 1984.

    Would I be right in thinking he said he would return...?


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    #44
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭ABC101


    Festus wrote: »
    Would I be right in thinking he said he would return...?

    Well done.... you got it!!!:D


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    #45
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    Interesting article in the Irish Times by William Reveille UCC (not the United Church of Christ)

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/science/after-death-is-there-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-1.1998144

    excerpt
    "A large-scale study called Aware (awareness during resuscitation), involving 2,060 patients who suffered cardiac arrest (330 survived), was launched in 2008, with Parnia as lead investigator. A range of mental experiences in relation to death were tested for validity using objective markers to determine if near-death experiences and out-of-body experiences are real or hallucinatory. The results were published online in the journal Resuscitation in October."

    I don't have access to the Journal so I would be curious to know if the also asked the patients\subjects details of their religious history or lack of one.

    Atheists can be very quick to apply all sorts or explanations from religious upbringing to watching the Twilight Zone and drug influences but when you compare the experiences of someone like Howard Storm you have to question how his descriptions are comparative with those of St. Faustina and and from the Fatima visionaries.

    Perhaps Howard Storm was researching Catholic visionaries? Not impossible but somehow I think not given that after his NDE he went UCC (United Church of Christ)

    if as the good professor comments

    "Watertight demonstrations of out-of-body experiences, should they ever come, indicating that consciousness can exist independently of a functioning brain, would certainly put the non-material cat among the material pigeons."

    I think there would be more cats and less pigeons if the data regarding the patients non medical biographies was included. That way we could see if there was a correlation between what people understood of the afterlife prior to their NDE with their actual experience.

    Real science depends on data and ignoring or discounting data is a bit silly.

    The nominative determinism is also interesting...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reveille


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    #46
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    I know this isn't specifically about Heaven or Hell and it doesn't involve a Near Death Experience but I think it is a worthwhile addition to this thread and certainly well worth reading, and for Catholics, edifying.

    It's about a Catholic Mystic who received visits from Holy Souls in Purgatory

    http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2013/10/maria-simma-visits-from-souls-in.html

    And it's still November so please don't forget to remember the Holy Souls in your prayers, especially those who have no one to pray for them

    +


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    #47
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    So, to try again. Is purgatory still an official Catholic doctrine?


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    #48
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    keano_afc wrote: »
    So, to try again. Is purgatory still an official Catholic doctrine?


    Didn't see you asking in the first place! Anyway, honest answer, I don't actually know. But by implication I'd be leaning towards yes.


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    #49
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    newmug wrote: »
    Didn't see you asking in the first place! Anyway, honest answer, I don't actually know. But by implication I'd be leaning towards yes.

    And as a Catholic yourself, do you believe in it?


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    #50
    EoghanIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    newmug wrote: »
    Didn't see you asking in the first place! Anyway, honest answer, I don't actually know. But by implication I'd be leaning towards yes.

    It wouldn't be a good business venture for the Catholic Church to remove purgatory . Think of the money they made from it in the past and continue to do so. People who believe in hell, pray and go to mass often because nobody wants to go to "hell/purgatory".


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    #51
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    EoghanIRL wrote: »
    It wouldn't be a good business venture for the Catholic Church to remove purgatory . Think of the money they made from it in the past and continue to do so. People who believe in hell, pray and go to mass often because nobody wants to go to "hell/purgatory".

    Seriously?

    How much do you think the Church is making from this?

    There is no charge for confession. Putting money on the plate is optional and for those that do it is usually loose change. As it is, attendance at Mass is falling off in most parishes. If you want a Mass said for yourself you give the priest a stipend - mostly it's 5e or 10e, but you can give more if you want. The priest may accept only one stipend per day.

    If you believe the Church is making money present the case.


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    #52
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Festus wrote: »
    Seriously?

    How much do you think the Church is making from this?

    There is no charge for confession. Putting money on the plate is optional and for those that do it is usually loose change. As it is, attendance at Mass is falling off in most parishes. If you want a Mass said for yourself you give the priest a stipend - mostly it's 5e or 10e, but you can give more if you want. The priest may accept only one stipend per day.

    If you believe the Church is making money present the case.

    Similarly, is there scriptural evidence to support the doctrine of purgatory?


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    #53
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    keano_afc wrote: »
    Similarly, is there scriptural evidence to support the doctrine of purgatory?

    There is.


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    #54
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Festus wrote: »
    There is.

    And they are....?


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    #55
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    keano_afc wrote: »
    And they are....?


    ... in the Bible :)

    here's a link to a discussion on the matter

    http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-purgatory-in-the-bible


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    #56
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Festus wrote: »
    ... in the Bible :)

    here's a link to a discussion on the matter

    http://www.catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/is-purgatory-in-the-bible

    Thanks for that, I'll have a read later. I take it you agree with the stance here? Would be nice to know your own thoughts on it.


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    #57
    newmug
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    keano_afc wrote: »
    And as a Catholic yourself, do you believe in it?

    Yes, 100%. Have a read of this, its a bit long-winded, but definitely an interesting read. Its an NDE from an Orthodontist in Columbia who got hit by lightning.


    http://www.javaemerald.com/religion/gloria_polo_testimony.html




    Keano, I suspect you DONT believe in Purgatory? I'd be interested to hear your stance on things.


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    #58
    Festus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Festus


    keano_afc wrote: »
    Thanks for that, I'll have a read later. I take it you agree with the stance here? Would be nice to know your own thoughts on it.

    Catholics are required to believe and accept everything the Church teaches so my own thoughts would differ little.

    Purgatory is real and supported by the Bible in general and Jesus in particular.

    If it wasn't for purgatory I suspect there wouldn't be many in Heaven.


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    #59
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    newmug wrote: »
    Yes, 100%. Have a read of this, its a bit long-winded, but definitely an interesting read. Its an NDE from an Orthodontist in Columbia who got hit by lightning.


    http://www.javaemerald.com/religion/gloria_polo_testimony.html




    Keano, I suspect you DONT believe in Purgatory? I'd be interested to hear your stance on things.

    I don't believe in Purgatory as I find it completely incompatible with the salvation Jesus spoke of in scripture. His work on the cross was finished, Christ said so Himself. He died on the cross to open the gates of heaven to those who believe. There is no waiting room, nor is there any scripture to support this. See the article below, it sums up my position pretty well.

    http://carm.org/bible-about-purgatory
    http://carm.org/purgatory


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    #60
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    keano_afc wrote: »
    I don't believe in Purgatory as I find it completely incompatible with the salvation Jesus spoke of in scripture. His work on the cross was finished, Christ said so Himself. He died on the cross to open the gates of heaven to those who believe. There is no waiting room, nor is there any scripture to support this. See the article below, it sums up my position pretty well.

    http://carm.org/bible-about-purgatory
    http://carm.org/purgatory
    It's the age-old issue of salvation by works ... or by Jesus Christ.

    Purgatory adds a further layer of works by other people.

    ... so how much Human prayer is required to atone for even one sin?
    Could I suggest that if Human effort and prayer could remit sin, then Jesus Christ's atoning death wasn't required at all.
    Of course, no amount of Human effort can remit even the tiniest sin ... and that is why Jesus Christ had to come on Earth and had to die in perfect atonement, so that we can live with Him forever in Heaven.

    St Paul summarized it as follows:-
    Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)

    8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


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