Testomonies Of People Who have Claimed To See Heaven or Hell

DEFTLEFTHAND · 13-07-2014 5:15am #1

There's many clips out there from tv shows on the likes of youtube with people having near death experiences and claiming to have experienced either Heaven or Hell before being brought back.

Former Atheist college professors like Howard Storm for instance who has been featured on a number of Christian tv shows. According to himself he was judged and cast to Hell before being given a last chance.

Do you pay much heed to the likes of Storm as Christians or anyone else who gives feedback on dying and being brought back? Do you think they really experience something real, as in the soul becoming separate to the body?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 13-07-2014 5:30am

I should note that all these experiences give the same message. Once your clock stops for good, there is no coming back, you can only seek redemption when you are living and breathing. Hence the warnings these people have claimed to have experienced.

gctest50 · 13-07-2014 5:39am

interesting angle on all of that :

Researchers from the University Hospitals of Geneva and Lausanne (Switzerland) have found that Out Of Body Experiences can be produced by direct electrical stimulation of a specific part of the brain. Dr. Olaf Blanke and his colleagues worked with a 43-year-old female patient who suffered from right temporal lobe epilepsy. In order to identify the location where the seizures occurred, the researchers implanted electrodes on the brain under the patient's dura. While the patient was awake, the researchers could pass electrical current through the electrodes to identify the function of the brain area under each electrode.

Electrical stimulation of the angular gyrus on the right side of the patient's brain produced unusual sensations. Weak stimulation caused the patient to feel as if she was "sinking into the bed" or "falling from a height." Stronger electrical stimulation caused the patient to have an Out Of Body Experience. For example, the patient said, "I see myself lying in bed, from above, but I only see my legs and lower trunk." Stimulation of the angular gyrus at other times caused the woman to have feelings of "lightness" and of "floating" two meters above the bed.

~ Blanke, O., Ortigue, S., Landis, T. and Seeck, M. Stimulating illusory own-body perceptions. Nature, 419:269-270, 2002.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2865009.stm

hinault · 18-07-2014 1:47am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

There's many clips out there from tv shows on the likes of youtube with people having near death experiences and claiming to have experienced either Heaven or Hell before being brought back.

Former Atheist college professors like Howard Storm for instance who has been featured on a number of Christian tv shows. According to himself he was judged and cast to Hell before being given a last chance.

Do you pay much heed to the likes of Storm as Christians or anyone else who gives feedback on dying and being brought back? Do you think they really experience something real, as in the soul becoming separate to the body?

I rely more upon the fact that at some point our soul will be separated from our physical bodies when we die.

If you believe that your soul has certain properties and that one of those properties is that your soul will exist for eternity, that concentrates the mind:eek:

In Christianity we are told that the eternal fate of every soul is sealed upon death.
You will either go straight to Heaven for eternity, go to Purgatory for an unspecified time and then go to Heaven for the remainder of eternity, or sadly
go to Hell for eternity.

I don't think that I need to hear the testimony of others with regard to what they claim to have experienced, because what they have experienced will not alter the only three outcomes that will come about.
Their experience is their own.

J C · 01-08-2014 10:41pm

hinault wrote: »

In Christianity we are told that the eternal fate of every soul is sealed upon death.
You will either go straight to Heaven for eternity, go to Purgatory for an unspecified time and then go to Heaven for the remainder of eternity, or sadly go to Hell for eternity.

This is the Roman Catholic position ... and I'd like to gently remind you that Christianity is not solely the preserve of Roman Catholocism.

The glaring anomaly in the above position is what happens after death to people who die without ever hearing of Jesus Christ and that He (and He alone) can Save them ... for example, pre-born children and other persons who are incapable of understanding that Jesus Christ exists or people who have simply never heard of Jesus Christ (or lived before Jesus was incarnated).
In the past, I understand, for example, that Roman Catholicism held that unborn children went to 'Limbo' where they existed in a place somewhere between Heaven and Hell forever. This has no Biblical basis and now seems to have been quietly 'dropped' by Roman Catholocism as an Article of Faith.

As God is a God of Justice, Love and Mercy ... it would seem that those who reject Him will be granted their wish and will be separted from Him in Hell forever, with other like-minded persons and spirits ...
... and those who accept Him will also be granted their wish to be with Him in Heaven forever, with other like-minded persons and angels ... and you can't get anything fairer than that.

It would seem that once purely spirit beings (and we will be purely spirit beings when we die) make a decision to reject God their fate is sealed ... this occurred with the fallen angels, when they fell ... and can potentially occur at the point of death of every un-saved person.

People can also make an irrevokable decison (while still alive or at the point of death) to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savour ... and their eternal fate will thus be sealed as Saved Christians.

hinault wrote: »

I don't think that I need to hear the testimony of others with regard to what they claim to have experienced, because what they have experienced will not alter the only three outcomes that will come about.
Their experience is their own.

Quite true, I'm sure for you.

However, I certainly would like to hear such testimonies ... which are often quite dramatic and life-changing for the persons involved ... and supported by the recall of details that have been verified by others as happening at the time the 'dead' person was completely unconscious.

J C · 01-08-2014 10:55pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

There's many clips out there from tv shows on the likes of youtube with people having near death experiences and claiming to have experienced either Heaven or Hell before being brought back.

Former Atheist college professors like Howard Storm for instance who has been featured on a number of Christian tv shows. According to himself he was judged and cast to Hell before being given a last chance.

Do you pay much heed to the likes of Storm as Christians or anyone else who gives feedback on dying and being brought back? Do you think they really experience something real, as in the soul becoming separate to the body?

I think they do experience the reality of early post-death phenomena, before they are resuscitated.
They are a timely warning to everyone who chooses to listen ... and, of course we also have the freedom to choose to not listen to these warnings from nearly beyond the grave.

Like everything else about Salvation ... we make our choice ... and we live with the consequences.

What makes Near Death Experiences particularly interesting is that they are experienced by people of all faiths and none ... and therefore they cannot simply be put down to religious people experiencing what they want/expect to experience at death.

Here are typical examples, involving some Irish people.
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/i-felt-myself-being-drawn-out-of-my-body-it-was-pure-bliss-29622821.html

... and here is an account of near death experiences by a Hospice Nurse:-

hinault · 02-08-2014 2:28am

J C wrote: »

This is the Roman Catholic position ... and I'd like to gently remind you that Christianity is not solely the preserve of Roman Catholocism.

I never suggested that Catholicism was.

J C wrote: »

The glaring anomaly in the above position is what happens after death to people who die without ever hearing of Jesus Christ and that He (and He alone) can Save them ... for example, pre-born children and other persons who are incapable of understanding that Jesus Christ exists or people who have simply never heard of Jesus Christ (or lived before Jesus was incarnated).

There is no anomaly.

People who die without ever hearing of Jesus Christ are not Christians. They have never been baptised.

J C wrote: »

As God is a God of Justice, Love and Mercy ... it would seem that those who reject Him will be granted their wish and will be separted from Him in Hell forever, with other like-minded persons and spirits ...
... and those who accept Him will also be granted their wish to be with Him in Heaven forever, with other like-minded persons and angels ... and you can't get anything fairer than that.

The Bible teaches that the time for divine mercy is in this life, and that this life determines ones fate in the next life for eternity.
If you condemn yourself to Hell by your conduct in this life, that fate is sealed for eternity.

J C wrote: »

It would seem that once purely spirit beings (and we will be purely spirit beings when we die) make a decision to reject God their fate is sealed ... this occurred with the fallen angels, when they fell ... and can potentially occur at the point of death of every un-saved person.

People can also make an irrevokable decison (while still alive or at the point of death) to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savour ... and their eternal fate will thus be sealed as Saved Christians.

One small point.

If someone deliberately lives a wholly sinful life and makes the cynical calculation that all will be forgiven if they obtain absolution at the 23.59hrs before they die at 00.00hrs - even if they get absolution at 23.59 hrs and they expire at 00.00hrs, I think the obvious question that they will be asked is "why did you leave it so late to reject the sins that you deliberately committed"?

veganrun · 02-08-2014 7:46am

I read an interesting book last year called Proof of Heaven. It's written by neurologist who didn't believe in near death experiences and discounted them as side effects of medication and so until he had his own. He also goes through why he believes it was real, and with his medical background examines why it wasn't caused by x, y and z etc. Quite interesting I thought.

J C · 04-08-2014 1:23am

hinault wrote: »

People who die without ever hearing of Jesus Christ are not Christians. They have never been baptised.

Baptism isn't necessary for Salvation ... and neither is Salvation guaranteed to the baptised.

hinault wrote: »

The Bible teaches that the time for divine mercy is in this life, and that this life determines ones fate in the next life for eternity.
If you condemn yourself to Hell by your conduct in this life, that fate is sealed for eternity.

We are all sinners in need of God's mercy ... and through no merit on our parts, lest anybody should boast.

hinault wrote: »

One small point.

If someone deliberately lives a wholly sinful life and makes the cynical calculation that all will be forgiven if they obtain absolution at the 23.59hrs before they die at 00.00hrs - even if they get absolution at 23.59 hrs and they expire at 00.00hrs, I think the obvious question that they will be asked is "why did you leave it so late to reject the sins that you deliberately committed"?

... somebody can life a perfectly upright life and never be Saved ... and equally, a person can be guilty of the most horrific sin and be Saved.
Jesus came to save sinners i.e. people who know and accept that they are sinners in need of God's mercy ... through no merit on their part.

shewasdiesel · 04-08-2014 12:16pm

J C wrote: »

Baptism isn't necessary for Salvation ... and neither is Salvation guaranteed to the baptised.

If that were the case then the real JC must have just been passing the time when he was baptised himself in the Jordan, and when he told people they needed to be born again of water and of spirit, and he was just bored again when he told the disciples to go forth and baptise all nations in the the name of the trinity. The apostles were then equally bored when they went out and baptised and confirmed entire households.

hinault · 04-08-2014 11:53pm

J C wrote: »

Baptism isn't necessary for Salvation ... and neither is Salvation guaranteed to the baptised

Baptism, along with other prerequisites, is necessary for salvation.

If one isn't baptised one cannot be saved.

You are correct though Baptism doesn't guarantee salvation.

whupdedo · 05-08-2014 1:21pm

hinault wrote: »

Baptism, along with other prerequisites, is necessary for salvation.

If one isn't baptised one cannot be saved.

You are correct though Baptism doesn't guarantee salvation.

But what always puzzled me about this is what happened to the long lost tribes of South America and Africa and parts of Asia that had never been brought the word of Christ by Christian missionaries, will they be forever dammed because of Christ's followers failings on earth to get the word of Christ to them ?

keano_afc · 05-08-2014 5:21pm

hinault wrote: »

Baptism, along with other prerequisites, is necessary for salvation.

If one isn't baptised one cannot be saved.

You are correct though Baptism doesn't guarantee salvation.

So the thief on the cross didnt actually go to heaven?

newmug · 05-08-2014 7:53pm

Baptism, if reasonably attainable, is a prerequisite for Heaven. Now obviously the tribes of Borneo who never heard of Jesus will not be held accountable for not getting Baptised, but if you heard of Jesus, and reject him by refusing to be Baptised, then its hell for you boyo. The thief on the cross obviously didn't get baptised, but he accepted Jesus and repented for his sins before his life was over. That's my favourite Bible passage, and I cant wait to meet that man in the next life.

lazybones32 · 05-08-2014 9:14pm

whupdedo wrote: »

But what always puzzled me about this is what happened to the long lost tribes of South America and Africa and parts of Asia that had never been brought the word of Christ by Christian missionaries, will they be forever dammed because of Christ's followers failings on earth to get the word of Christ to them ?

The people who never heard the Good News will be judged according to their conscience (so claim the RCC). They wrote and explained it far more eloquently and graceful than I have just done but that's the gist. I'd give it to you verbatim but the book is no longer in my possession.

Brian Shanahan · 14-08-2014 3:55pm

veganrun wrote: »

I read an interesting book last year called Proof of Heaven. It's written by neurologist who didn't believe in near death experiences and discounted them as side effects of medication and so until he had his own. He also goes through why he believes it was real, and with his medical background examines why it wasn't caused by x, y and z etc. Quite interesting I thought.

It doesn't bother you that a lot of his story is unsupported by the evidence, like the facts about his coma, which are flat out contradicted by the doctor in charge of his treatment?

nagirrac · 15-08-2014 6:39pm

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

It doesn't bother you that a lot of his story is unsupported by the evidence, like the facts about his coma, which are flat out contradicted by the doctor in charge of his treatment?

The referenced Esquire article by Mark Dettrich has been thoroughly debunked itself. First of all medical records are private in the US and the only reason Dittrich had access to Alexander's doctors was because Alexander authorized it. More importantly, the doctor in question who was interviewed by Dittrich has stated in emails to Alexander's family that her statements were misrepresented and taken out of context, not unusual behavior for a reporter concocting a story. This rebuttal by Dr. Potter of course has not been published by Esquire.

There is nothing unusual whatsoever about Dr. Alexander's experience, it is consistent in its features with thousands of documented NDEs in history. These experiences are now much more common due to advanced resuscitation techniques, hundreds of cases have been reported and studied by prominent researchers like Sam Parnia and Pim von Lommel in recent years. All of these studies have focused on those who suffered cardiac arrest while in hospital, and for a period of several minutes were clinically dead i.e. no pulse, no breath, and no measurable brain activity, but successfully brought back to normal consciousness within minutes.

What is questionable regarding Dr. Alexander's testimony is his interpretation of it in a Christian context. If he were more familiar with other religions and with NDE research he would know that these experiences are common to all types of believers and none, and that they are typically explained in the context of the belief system the individual previously held (it is quite common for beliefs to change due to these experiences, those who were dogmatically religious becoming less so, atheists becoming believers, etc.). From my reading of these cases, the "heaven" described seems to most resemble Buddhist heavenly states.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-08-2014 5:28am

I listened recently to an interview with Anton LaVey's daughter Zeena and she spoke about her fathers last moments. He took a heart attack and was taken to hospital, he was in a stable condition with his family in the room when he had another attack and died.

She said that he was addressing an unseen presence in the room, "wrong, wrong, I repent" were words he spoke, almost like he was pleading for his soul. I've heard stories about his deathbed pleadings before but I thought it was bull or an Urban Myth.

The daughter btw is still involved with the Satanic Church.

Brian Shanahan · 24-08-2014 12:36pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I listened recently to an interview with Anton LaVey's daughter Zeena and she spoke about her fathers last moments. He took a heart attack and was taken to hospital, he was in a stable condition with his family in the room when he had another attack and died.

She said that he was addressing an unseen presence in the room, "wrong, wrong, I repent" were words he spoke, almost like he was pleading for his soul. I've heard stories about his deathbed pleadings before but I thought it was bull or an Urban Myth.

The daughter btw is still involved with the Satanic Church.

Considering that:
A) His wife was the only one at his death bed

Most of the sites mentioning this "conversion" are either US right-wing tabloids or fundamentalist christian websites (or persons) and
C) Quite a lot of the commentary on this actually mention that his daughter denies said events

Then I have to conclude that this story is no more truthfull than the Lady Hope's fictional deathbed conversion of Charles Darwin (a story she invented for financial gain). I'd suggest if you really want the origins of this story, ask the question: Qui Bono?

El_Duderino 09 · 27-08-2014 1:38pm

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I listened recently to an interview with Anton LaVey's daughter Zeena and she spoke about her fathers last moments. He took a heart attack and was taken to hospital, he was in a stable condition with his family in the room when he had another attack and died.

She said that he was addressing an unseen presence in the room, "wrong, wrong, I repent" were words he spoke, almost like he was pleading for his soul. I've heard stories about his deathbed pleadings before but I thought it was bull or an Urban Myth.

The daughter btw is still involved with the Satanic Church.

Assume the story is true. A man is having a health attack, his brain is becoming starved of oxygen and he speaks. Do you feel the content of his speech, under those conditions, is compelling evidence of anything?

Can you only come up with one hypothesis to explain this phenomenon or have you come up with other hypotheses and been able to discount them?

J C · 28-09-2014 11:02pm

newmug wrote: »

Baptism, if reasonably attainable, is a prerequisite for Heaven. Now obviously the tribes of Borneo who never heard of Jesus will not be held accountable for not getting Baptised, but if you heard of Jesus, and reject him by refusing to be Baptised, then its hell for you boyo. The thief on the cross obviously didn't get baptised, but he accepted Jesus and repented for his sins before his life was over. That's my favourite Bible passage, and I cant wait to meet that man in the next life.

Baptism is a pre-requisite to joining the Christian Community ... but it's not a requirement for Salvation.

newmug · 29-09-2014 6:07pm

J C wrote: »

Baptism is a pre-requisite to joining the Christian Community ... but it's not a requirement for Salvation.

Its 2 sides of the same coin. Following Christ is the guaranteed way to get to Heaven, and baptism is the first step on that journey. Rejecting Christ is a guaranteed way to go to hell, although I hope God will forgive those who reject him. For those who are not Baptised due to genuine ignorance, they'll be judged on their conscience.

J C · 29-09-2014 6:18pm

newmug wrote: »

Its 2 sides of the same coin. Following Christ is the guaranteed way to get to Heaven, and baptism is the first step on that journey. Rejecting Christ is a guaranteed way to go to hell, although I hope God will forgive those who reject him. For those who are not Baptised due to genuine ignorance, they'll be judged on their conscience.

The first step is being Saved ... after that comes baptism, into a Church.

newmug · 29-09-2014 6:53pm

J C wrote: »

The first step is being Saved ... after that comes baptism, into a Church.

I'm sorry JC, but you're so, so wrong. You don't get a guaranteed ticket to Heaven first, and THEN go and follow Gods will. Jesus didn't say to Peter, "Here Pete, you're saved already, ya might aswell come and endure a life of persecution and a horrible death just for the craic".

Jesus's crucifixion bought us all the OPPORTUNITY to be saved. Your ticket to Heaven is purchased and waiting for you, but A) you have to ask for it, by becoming a Christian, which implies getting baptised, and

once you have your ticket, keep it by not sinning and trying your best to genuinely live as Jesus asked. Its all in black-and-white, in the Bible. Jesus Himself said these things, any twisted interpretation or out-of-context explanation just to suit ones own theology is just nuts on so many levels. Its your soul and eternity you're dealing with here, not a political point scoring match.

J C · 29-09-2014 7:51pm

newmug wrote: »

I'm sorry JC, but you're so, so wrong. You don't get a guaranteed ticket to Heaven first, and THEN go and follow Gods will.

That's exactly what you get ... and what you do afterwards.

newmug wrote: »

Jesus's crucifixion bought us all the OPPORTUNITY to be saved. Your ticket to Heaven is purchased and waiting for you,

True.

newmug wrote: »

but A) you have to ask for it, by becoming a Christian, which implies getting baptised,

You have to ask for it by believing on Jesus (and nobody else, including yourself) to Save you.
... and if you then want to join a Church, you go and get baptised ... and if you don't want to join a Church,... you don't have to get baptised.

newmug wrote: »

and once you have your ticket, keep it by not sinning and trying your best to genuinely live as Jesus asked. Its all in black-and-white, in the Bible.

Once you are Saved, no demon in Hell and no man on Earth can take it from you ... because you have made a binding contract with our merciful and just God to avail of His mercy ... rather than His justice.

newmug wrote: »

Jesus Himself said these things, any twisted interpretation or out-of-context explanation just to suit ones own theology is just nuts on so many levels. Its your soul and eternity you're dealing with here, not a political point scoring match.

It absolutely is my eternal destiny ... and your eternal destiny is also 'on the line' as well, if you're not Saved.

So please tell me if you have ever sinned since you were baptised?
...and please also tell me what you can do to atone for your sin?

RikuoAmero · 18-10-2014 4:06pm

J C wrote: »

That's exactly what you get ... and what you do afterwards.

True.

You have to ask for it by believing on Jesus (and nobody else, including yourself) to Save you.
... and if you then want to join a Church, you go and get baptised ... and if you don't want to join a Church,... you don't have to get baptised.

Once you are Saved, no demon in Hell and no man on Earth can take it from you ... because you have made a binding contract with our merciful and just God to avail of His mercy ... rather than His justice.

It absolutely is my eternal destiny ... and your eternal destiny is also 'on the line' as well, if you're not Saved.

So please tell me if you have ever sinned since you were baptised?
...and please also tell me what you can do to atone for your sin?

I love the discussion the two of you have been having. In that you have two different interpretations of christianity, one guy says "You need to do X", the other says "No you don't"...and neither of you have (so far) quoted scripture, just made these bald assertions.
It will be even more hilarious once the both of you do start quoting scripture, at which point both of you will undoubtedly find passages that support his own side of the argument and negate the other guys...and since this will happen for both of you then there is no way to discern which, if either of you, is correct.

branie2 · 19-10-2014 9:06pm

Ever read Colm Keane's books on the subject

whupdedo · 19-10-2014 9:09pm

branie2 wrote: »

Ever read Colm Keane's books on the subject

Great book, meant to post it but couldn't for the life of me think of author or the name of it, well worth a read, really makes you think

Thisname · 19-10-2014 10:08pm

Ian McCormack's testimony is fascinating. You can watch it on YouTube

DEFTLEFTHAND · 16-11-2014 5:39am

I came across this interview recently and found it very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JsaEJkSmUw

RikuoAmero · 16-11-2014 6:57am

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I came across this interview recently and found it very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JsaEJkSmUw

So guy has terminal disease, is told he'll die, and begins to feel afraid. He says he was an atheist, but is concerned over whether or not he'll be 'saved'.
So he questions whether or not "God is right", so this to me is him falling victim to Pascal's Wager. He doesn't recount him doing research on various religions, but just mentions the one - I presume it's evangelical christianity, since me mentions being saved. He doesn't question whether other branches or denominations are 'correct', he just goes for the one he was presumably raised in or most familiar with.
He recounts what he experienced as he was dying, which can very easily be explained by him retaining memories of what he has been told happens after someone dies, sorta like when one dreams while asleep about what one has been thinking extremely hard about during the day.
The video then stops at the 7 min mark to make threats and use psychological abuse on the viewer, calling the viewer worthless and non-righteous. The only evidence shown in support of these claims are quotes from a highly suspect translation of a collection of books with no known authors about two thousand years old or so. It then goes on to say that this being called God wants to save everyone from hell, and that for some unexplained reason, the ONLY SOLUTION that this so called all loving, all powerful and all knowing entity could up with to save people from hell...was to become mortal, die on the cross and be ressurrected, then set it up such that only people who are gullible enough to believe this without evidence are saved.
Really? That's the ONLY SOLUTION?

Not only that, but the title of the video is a complete lie. Atheist Experience 795? I searched for the real episode number and not once in that episode do they switch to a 12 min segment about a highly dubious claim of some guy recounting how he converted to christianity.

And in case some of the christians here don't understand, the reason I put up this post was because I don't want to be conned. The guy in the video could have been a paid actor or have made the whole thing up. If there is a true religion (if being the operative word), I want to be careful about picking the right religion, which is why I demand that anyone who claims this that and other is true, that they HAVE to provide evidence.

Testomonies Of People Who have Claimed To See Heaven or Hell

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