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Is it time for an economically right wing party?

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  • Options
    #272
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Which is exactly the same model we have in Ireland
    The much vaunted Norway having vast mineral wealth helps too

    Another away with the leprecauns.

    No comparison with the ethos of our Viking friends.

    But keep digging........


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    #273
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    Another away with the leprecauns.

    No comparison with the ethos of our Viking friends.

    But keep digging........
    Ethos isn't worth a damn when you have black gold out the arse.


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    #274
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    You don't understand the meaning of the word 'ethos' do you?

    By the way, I said Nordic..........not Norway.

    We can start with resource poor Denmark if you like.


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    #275
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    Spoof away, you clearly think Nordic socio-economics is founded on oil.
    That is laughable, you obviously haven't a rashers.


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    #276
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    Silence ha ha

    Be back later today to see what you can cook up. You've about 5 hours to dig yourself out.


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    #277
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    Silence ha ha

    Gonna assume your a troll.

    This is poor posting.


  • Options
    #278
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    You don't understand the meaning of the word 'ethos' do you?

    By the way, I said Nordic..........not Norway.

    We can start with resource poor Denmark if you like.
    No, I managed to get a degree in economics and two law degrees without ever learning the word "ethos" :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #279
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,699 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    We can start with resource poor Denmark if you like.

    Lets do just that;

    Denmark produces 262,100 bbls of crude oil per day & 6,412,000,000m3 of natural gas annually.

    Next...


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    #280
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    No, I managed to get a degree in economics and two law degrees without ever learning the word "ethos" :rolleyes:

    ha ha and I have a nobel prize in economics


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    #281
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    You don't understand the meaning of the word 'ethos' do you?

    By the way, I said Nordic..........not Norway.

    We can start with resource poor Denmark if you like.
    Denmark actually has considerable mature oil and gas wells in the North Sea.

    http://www.eia.gov/countries/?fips=da


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    #282
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,374 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    Earth calling gloomtastic, come in gloomspastic...........

    That your best shot? Stick to your pipe and slippers daddio and don't be bothering your little head about complicated stuff an economics and stuff.......

    Communism my arse.

    The most successful counties socially as well as economically are the the Nordic countries who have a social democratic liberal model. A decent mix of social justice and market economy.

    Sorry to disillusion you. Try the hobby forum or something like that.

    I was at a meeting last year organised by the INTO and they were lamenting the size of the Irish classes of 30+ pupils. One of the Union reps: 'Why can't we be like Finland, with an average class size of 22?' Queue loud applause from the audience.
    Me: 'Well if we dropped the average Irish teacher salary of €56k to the Finnish average of €37k, then that would be a help to pay for class size reduction'. Silence.....

    Maybe the above is one reason why we will never be able to follow the Nordic countries - pure greed by all of those who rely on the Irish taxpayer for their living.......


  • Options
    #283
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    Lets do just that;

    Denmark produces 262,100 bbls of crude oil per day & 6,412,000,000m3 of natural gas annually.

    Next...
    More spoofing. Danish economy is 76% services


  • Options
    #284
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    ha ha and I have a nobel prize in economics
    No... seriously. I am genuinely a barrister. Ok, well full disclosure: the economics degree is law and economics, but I digress.


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    #285
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    I was at a meeting last year organised by the INTO and they were lamenting the size of the Irish classes of 30+ pupils. One of the Union reps: 'Why can't we be like Finland, with an average class size of 22?' Queue loud applause from the audience.
    Me: 'Well if we dropped the average Irish teacher salary of €56k to the Finnish average of €37k, then that would be a help to pay for class size reduction'. Silence.....

    Maybe the above is one reason why we will never be able to follow the Nordic countries - pure greed by all of those who rely on the Irish taxpayer for their living.......

    Sorry, what's that to do with anything?

    Your point was communism...............how does that fit in?


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    #286
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    No... seriously. I am genuinely a barrister. Ok, well full disclosure: the economics degree is law and economics, but I digress.

    sure.........


  • Options
    #287
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    poteen, you're contributing nothing but noise to the thread. Continued posting in that style will produce infractions and then bans.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #288
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    So, sshhh now, let's get back to the point, the thread topico......

    The Nordic model, is based on progressive taxation, which might be considered ethical though, and I'll whisper it, ethics and ethos are different.....

    Progressive taxation is anathema to the right but the real bogey man is taxing the rich. Something the Vikings are quite adept at.

    More evolved than your right wing apemen obviously.

    [MOD]You're not quite getting this, I think.[/MOD]


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    #289
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    First thing: kill the trade unions.

    ;) Some people actually do believe that!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #290
    adocholiday
    Registered Users Posts: 1,852 ✭✭✭adocholiday


    K-9 wrote: »
    ;) Some people actually do believe that!

    While I wouldn't advocate getting rid of the unions completely, I would certainly be in favour of seriously reducing their power. In the public sector especially, the protection that is offered by the unions is staggering. Not to mention the incredible job/holiday/salary benefits that they have obtained for their members by holding the country to ransom on countless occasions. The unions are precisely the reason why we have such a management and administration heavy public service, with a lack of front line staff.

    If the government could actually operate the civil/public services as a company would be then required layoffs could be made, pay cuts implemented, operating procedures changed etc. Try doing that in the public service and you will be met with notice of strike action. The amount of concessions that have to be made for the unions in order to introduce the smallest of changes is outrageous.

    The unions have a place in the working world. They provide a vital lifeline for people who are having legitimate issues in work and are a united voice for staff, but they have far surpassed their remit over time and they need to be reigned in. Then their leaders' salaries/benefits/pensions are a whole other conversation


  • Options
    #291
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I believe a lot of people who are looking for a new party, want a bigger welfare state and more government spending, taxes etc...

    So when there are calls for a new party, I'd wonder what the breakdown is between wanting a new centreist, left or right leaning government.

    In terms of "right wing" a lot of us want to live in a country, properly run for the benefit of all and not for hoards of vested interests. I want decent infrastructure, affordable housing, hard work rewarded etc. Is this right wing? Because I dont think anybody is calling for welfare to be slashed in half so they can have a few more euro a week in their pocket at the expense of the actual vulnerable, but there is far too much piss taking going on here...
    I was at a meeting last year organised by the INTO and they were lamenting the size of the Irish classes of 30+ pupils. One of the Union reps: 'Why can't we be like Finland, with an average class size of 22?' Queue loud applause from the audience.
    Me: 'Well if we dropped the average Irish teacher salary of €56k to the Finnish average of €37k, then that would be a help to pay for class size reduction'. Silence.....

    Maybe the above is one reason why we will never be able to follow the Nordic countries - pure greed by all of those who rely on the Irish taxpayer for their living.......

    The above posts just hits the nail on the head, when even our educators are lowest common denominator on the budget front, what hope is there. The Government have to look for votes every what is it, 5 years? pandering to an electorate who for the large part, havent got a clue about finance, running the country etc. Of course they cant admit that as they are in effect their customers, being a politician must require the patience of a saint...


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    #292
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    adocholiday wrote: »
    While I wouldn't advocate getting rid of the unions completely, I would certainly be in favour of seriously reducing their power. In the public sector especially, the protection that is offered by the unions is staggering. Not to mention the incredible job/holiday/salary benefits that they have obtained for their members by holding the country to ransom on countless occasions. The unions are precisely the reason why we have such a management and administration heavy public service, with a lack of front line staff.

    If the government could actually operate the civil/public services as a company would be then required layoffs could be made, pay cuts implemented, operating procedures changed etc. Try doing that in the public service and you will be met with notice of strike action. The amount of concessions that have to be made for the unions in order to introduce the smallest of changes is outrageous.

    The unions have a place in the working world. They provide a vital lifeline for people who are having legitimate issues in work and are a united voice for staff, but they have far surpassed their remit over time and they need to be reigned in. Then their leaders' salaries/benefits/pensions are a whole other conversation

    The problem is lack of unionisation in the private sector and over-unionisation in the public sector.


  • Options
    #293
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The Government have to look for votes every what is it, 5 years? pandering to an electorate who for the large part, havent got a clue about finance, running the country etc. Of course they cant admit that as they are in effect their customers, being a politician must require the patience of a saint...

    ha ha

    as opposed to various FF FG govs who delivered poverty for 100 years except that time when credit became easy.

    But ignoring the failure of politicians the whole debate is utterly naive.

    We have effectively zero economic control. The real power is the large central banks, the markets and various Hedge and Sovereign funds.

    Debating right or left wing gov slants is no different to quibbling over the the state of the wallpaper in the parlour when the house is on fire.

    Ireland is like a corner shopkeeper in a mafia controlled locality. We are nice to the mafia and they give us their custom.

    We await a real revolution to take back the locality from the mafia.

    Of course there are the brainwashed naive who actually aspire to be mafioso themselves and agree with the mafioso ethos. Not ethics, mind, ethos


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    #294
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    So, sshhh now, let's get back to the point, the thread topico......

    The Nordic model, is based on progressive taxation, which might be considered ethical though, and I'll whisper it, ethics and ethos are different.....

    Progressive taxation is anathema to the right but the real bogey man is taxing the rich. Something the Vikings are quite adept at.

    More evolved than your right wing apemen obviously.

    [MOD]You're not quite getting this, I think.[/MOD]

    Ireland's income tax system is possibly the most progressive in the world after the recent budget. I don't get your point.


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    #295
    keane2097
    Registered Users Posts: 17,770 ✭✭✭✭keane2097


    Godge wrote: »
    Ireland's income tax system is possibly the most progressive in the world after the recent budget. I don't get your point.

    Could someone give a broad-strokes overview of why that's the case for the uninitiated?


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    #296
    poteen o hooley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 92 ✭✭poteen o hooley


    Godge wrote: »
    Ireland's income tax system is possibly the most progressive in the world after the recent budget. I don't get your point.



    Utter nonsense.


    doesn't merit a factual answer. You're either trolling or have no idea what progressive taxation means


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    #297
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    utter nonsense


    Top Gun response.

    Its very progressive.

    Though I'm sure you have stacks of data showing otherwise?


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    #298
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    Utter nonsense.


    doesn't merit a factual answer. You're either trolling or have no idea what progressive taxation means

    And apparently you have no idea what "civil" means, or a mod warning. Go away for a week, and reconsider your posting style.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


  • Options
    #299
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    it certainly is progressive in the direct sense of the word, is it doing more damage than good at the level it is at though, I would say, it is also immoral IMO.

    You can be sure that anyone defending that rate A) isnt paying it B) probably would class people on 32,800 as irelands rich and elite :rolleyes:


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    #300
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    keane2097 wrote: »
    Could someone give a broad-strokes overview of why that's the case for the uninitiated?


    http://www.publicpolicy.ie/progressivity-of-irish-income-tax-system-2013/

    "Ireland has the most progressive income tax system (including employee social insurance contributions) in the EU and the wider OECD. The tax paid by a single person on half average earnings is the second lowest in the OECD and is less than one-thirteenth that in Denmark while the tax paid by a single person on two and a half times average earnings is the 9th highest in the OECD. At average income levels we are the 27th highest in OECD."


    The 2015 budget increased progressivity in the income tax system. We are actually at the point where the only option for improving public services is to impose more income tax on the average and lower-than average earnings worker. Politically impossible in the current climate but that is the reality.

    This is one of the more stark conclusions:

    "If the average single worker in Ireland on an income of about €36,000 paid tax at the rates applicable in Denmark, they would pay over €7,600 more in income tax and social insurance contributions."


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    #301
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    poteen o hooley wrote: »
    So, sshhh now, let's get back to the point, the thread topico......

    The Nordic model, is based on progressive taxation, which might be considered ethical though, and I'll whisper it, ethics and ethos are different.....

    Progressive taxation is anathema to the right but the real bogey man is taxing the rich. Something the Vikings are quite adept at.

    More evolved than your right wing apemen obviously.
    Irish income tax system is more progressive than the system in Nordic countries.
    The tax burden on low incomes is very low compared to other developed countries.


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