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Dublin Bus Mythbuster

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24567…13

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    #32
    s8080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 102 ✭✭s8080


    ClovenHoof wrote: »
    I do not hate Dublin B us drivers.

    I just expect a level of customer service across the board with the scumbag and incompetent drivers sacked for their often disgusting behaviour towards passengers and not the 90% of the decent drivers forming a protective ring around these dirtbags/deadbeats and screaming 'Larkin!!! Larkin!!!' towards any hint of personal accountability for wrong doing.

    you do know you dont have to have any interaction with the driver.
    Use a Leap card and get information on a journey on your smart phone or PC.


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    #33
    s8080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 102 ✭✭s8080


    keith16 wrote: »
    My experiences with Dublin bus are generally good. The network / timetabling / payment system could always be better. But that's hardly the fault of the bus driver.

    All of your complaints are the responsibility of the NTA.
    Why is there no posting here about the NTA?


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    #34
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    s8080 wrote: »
    here is how it really went down, passenger has no money on leap card,
    Driver- there is no money on the card
    Passenger- i just put 20 on it in the shop
    D- well it on on it now
    P- this is ridiculous i put the money on it 10 minutes ago in the shop
    D- well don’t be angry with me , go back to the shop and sort it out there
    P- your so rude, no need to be so aggressive ,(if a woman) your scaring me with your anger)
    D-well there is no money on the card, you will have to buy a ticket
    P- (Oscar worthy display on righteous indignation). no need to be so aggressive
    D-(thinking to themselves , here we go the big oscar worthy scene is coming,they will make a scene, try embarrass the driver and they will let me on for free.)

    This is poor customer service. What the driver should say is "As you only topped up your leap card 10 minutes ago, you must still have the receipt detailing the transaction and the correct balance, would you please hand it over so I can inspect same?"At which point the customer hands it over, and the driver allows the customer onto the bus as a gesture of good will, understanding that sometimes these things happen.

    The only problems with your posts s8080 is that you seem to think drivers are infallible, and are never at fault.


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    #35
    mawk
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭mawk


    s8080 wrote: »
    i not using fancy words that could not be misinterpret, just plain english,

    Must... Not.. Smartass...


    Damn it..


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    #36
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Why do posts from people who claim to be DB drivers contain so many typos/misspellings? I'm starting to believe a lot aren't DB drivers at all.


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    #37
    RobbingBandit
    Registered Users Posts: 18,090 ✭✭✭✭RobbingBandit


    Why, I wouldn't have thought driving a bus would require an expert vocabulary, no offence meant by this btw.


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    #38
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    This is poor customer service. What the driver should say is "As you only topped up your leap card 10 minutes ago, you must still have the receipt detailing the transaction and the correct balance, would you please hand it over so I can inspect same?"At which point the customer hands it over, and the driver allows the customer onto the bus as a gesture of good will, understanding that sometimes these things happen.

    The only problems with your posts s8080 is that you seem to think drivers are infallible, and are never at fault.

    And for how long with other services should that go on for? The issue isn't with the driver or dublinbus. If someone was to go up with empty pockets and say "I got change earlier" should they still be let on?


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    #39
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    And for how long with other services should that go on for? The issue isn't with the driver or dublinbus. If someone was to go up with empty pockets and say "I got change earlier" should they still be let on?

    What kind of analogy is that? Not having change is clearly not the same as having essentially pre-paid for a service and then being denied said service!!

    The issue is with the driver and dublin bus, they're the ones that are trying to get people to use a leap card, so they should most definitely be trying to help those who are affected when it doesn't work properly.

    The person who is not at fault in the scenario described is the customer. Is some basic customer service really too much to ask for?


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    #40
    s8080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 102 ✭✭s8080


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Why do posts from people who claim to be DB drivers contain so many typos/misspellings? I'm starting to believe a lot aren't DB drivers at all.


    in my case its a wireless keyboard and the battery is nearly gone not all key presses are registered plus other distractions so not 100% focusing on screen, if you want to think im thick go right ahead, i have been called worse at work


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    #41
    s8080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 102 ✭✭s8080


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    What kind of analogy is that? Not having change is clearly not the same as having essentially pre-paid for a service and then being denied said service!!

    The issue is with the driver and dublin bus, they're the ones that are trying to get people to use a leap card, so they should most definitely be trying to help those who are affected when it doesn't work properly.

    The person who is not at fault in the scenario described is the customer. Is some basic customer service really too much to ask for?

    very simple, how long do you think the fare paying passengers would be happy if they saw someone getting on for free. They either have or are just about to pay and they see someone not, big argument would erupt.

    This pre-paid for a service and being denied service is stupid, so you get a gift card of your mother for you birthday and when you try and use it in a shop it does not work, would you expect the shop to give you the goods for free as a good will gesture?


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    #42
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    s8080 wrote: »
    Truth is they are forbidden by the NTA to put on extra buses.

    they can when it suits them, a couple of extra 84x have just been added
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92691431&postcount=55


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    #43
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    s8080 wrote: »
    All of your complaints are the responsibility of the NTA.
    Why is there no posting here about the NTA?

    the NTA are only a new enough organisation and inherited plenty of huge steaming turds from CIE and the DofT in regards a lot of issues. They are, at least, starting to make progress on things.

    However the networking / timetabling and fare structure are definitely DB legacy issues...


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    #44
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,016 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    mawk wrote: »
    Must... Not.. Smartass...


    Damn it..
    Too late, you did.
    n97 mini wrote: »
    Why do posts from people who claim to be DB drivers contain so many typos/misspellings? I'm starting to believe a lot aren't DB drivers at all.
    See below, or underneath your seat. That's where the smelly food usually is...
    s8080 wrote: »
    in my case its a wireless keyboard and the battery is nearly gone not all key presses are registered plus other distractions so not 100% focusing on screen, if you want to think im thick go right ahead, i have been called worse at work

    Not your ornery onager



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    #45
    jamesbondings
    Registered Users Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭jamesbondings


    s8080 wrote: »
    so you have a issue with the truth?
    no bad attitude from me, just want to give you the honest truth.

    While I appreciate the honesty of a DB driver coming on here i do feel you have went about it the wrong way. To start your post does smack of attitude in an im right and the commuter is wrong kinda way.

    If you just want to give us the honest truth as you so put it, explain a few things to me please.

    Why when in nice areas like blackrock, sandyford, dundrum etc is it ok for a bus driver to stop outside of the bus stops to let people (running for the bus) on, but as soon as you cross that liffey all the official rules stick?

    Why (on some routes) can the bus driver not issue the correct tickets at the correct prices?

    Why are some drivers rude, obnoxious and generally horrible to deal with?

    Why will some drivers pack their bus to the gills (nearly to the point of it being seriously dangerous) when others fill it to the limit?


    I hate dublin bus, not because of the drivers so much as i have little to no interaction with you for the most part, but because of management, because they cannot be relied upon, because the price is crazy (as im a lazy fecker who would prefer to get the bus 5-6 stops instead of walking!)

    AND dont get me started on the joke of a leap card.......
    I suppose its just like the e-voting machines, the Port Tunnel and all the other stuff us Irish just cant get right....No wonder some think of us as the feckless irish!


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    #46
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,016 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Passengers are called skulls, in the trade. All we need are crossbones.

    Alas, poor Yorick!

    Not your ornery onager



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    #47
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    s8080 wrote: »
    very simple, how long do you think the fare paying passengers would be happy if they saw someone getting on for free. They either have or are just about to pay and they see someone not, big argument would erupt.

    This pre-paid for a service and being denied service is stupid, so you get a gift card of your mother for you birthday and when you try and use it in a shop it does not work, would you expect the shop to give you the goods for free as a good will gesture?

    Fare paying passengers see people getting on for free multiple times every journey. It's called a travel pass, i haven't seen any big arguments erupt over it yet. That's a pretty poor excuse not to at least try and help someone who is also, by the way, a fare paying passenger.

    As for your gift card analogy. If I had only bought the thing ten minutes previously and had a detailed receipt which corresponds with the gift card in my hand then you can be damn sure that everything that can be done will be done to make sure i leave with the item i want. Retailers at least have some idea about customer service. As opposed to your Goodfellas "fúck you, pay me" method.


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    #48
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,555 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    s8080 wrote: »
    i will post in broad terms to try keep it simple

    Dublin bus has never been busier, the NTA will say passengers numbers are down, the reality is different.

    NTA will say 1,000,000 passengers a week 5 years ago, only 900,000 today.
    sounds good but dig deeper 5 years ago the fleet was 1,000 buses , today 800.
    The NTA are not lying jut economical with the truth.

    Free travel pass users has exploded, they are not counted.only fare paying passengers.

    Now this is where the piece of junk ticket machines come into it.
    Just as the bus services of europe where scrapping these machines, the NTA where spending million to bring them to dublin bus.
    As everyone who has ever used one can see they are not up to the job, well not the job you would expect them to do.
    If you wanted a way to under report the number of passengers they are perfect, at a conservative estimate i would say 6 hours a week they dont work, validator beside door out of service, and leap card users travel for free.
    Then you have the leap tranactions at the drivers machine, dozens of times per day, Bad read/faulty update messages pop up after a ticket has supposedly been purchase and the passenger has walked away. Passengers traveling for free. None of these passengers are recorded as using the bus.

    Great news you say , free travel. Think again.

    ESB was the only source of electrity in ireland, govermnent said competition would be good for all of us.
    ESB ordered to raise price of electricy from 10c a unit to 15c.
    Now new companies sell electricy at 14c a unit, government says look competition good, you get electricty cheaper than of ESB.
    We are paying 40% more than we would if the ESB did not have "competition"

    Whats this got to do with dublin bus you ask, well if passenger numbers are down (they are most definatly not)
    More free travel passes and faulty ticket machines ensure the numbers appear to be down.The NTA will raise ticket prices to balance the books.
    So next year the max fare will be E3.50. Then the private operators appear to save the day with competition and bring cheaper fares, expect around E3.30.
    You will be delighted you are paying less than the dublin bus fare, but fail to see if the NTA and government where not interfering you would only be paying E2.50


    I think this needs a little correction.


    The current ticketing equipment was purchased by Dublin Bus, not the NTA. It was purchased when it was brand new equipment, and not at the end of its useful life. This seems to be a common misconception. It is due for replacement starting next year.


    As for passenger numbers, they are nowhere near the levels they were at the height of the boom, and really to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. Numbers are at last increasing again, which is great news, but what is different this time is that as a result of Network Direct there is much better matching of capacity to demand, with overcapacity eradicated, which means that as passenger numbers start to rise again, many buses are fuller than before. This was achieved by eliminating many of the routes that duplicate one another and cutting frequency back. The next stage will be to see services start to expand again, with the focus on the "super" routes (the cross-city services that focus on QBCs - e.g. 15, 16, 27 etc.).

    s8080 wrote: »
    so the dublin bus rush hour post.

    People complaining about no room on the bus as it passes by without stopping, "dublin bus are a disgrace not putting on extra buses to carry the passengers, they are leaving loads of money at the side of the road."

    Dublin bus are well aware of this and would like nothing better than to put on extra buses. Truth is they are forbidden by the NTA to put on extra buses.

    Remember folks dont let the truth get in the way when you want to give out about dublin bus.



    Dublin Bus are permitted to apply to the NTA to operate additional services - there is nothing to stop them doing that, other than a lack of available buses and drivers. I suspect that you will see some modest expansion in the short term.


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    #49
    s8080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 102 ✭✭s8080


    Why when in nice areas like blackrock, sandyford, dundrum etc is it ok for a bus driver to stop outside of the bus stops to let people (running for the bus) on, but as soon as you cross that liffey all the official rules stick?
    those areas are donnybrook, maybe other areas the local dublin bus management crack down hard on drivers for breaking the rules



    Why (on some routes) can the bus driver not issue the correct tickets at the correct prices?
    on some routes the info on the ticket machine is different from the info you see on the website, example 145 heuston to d'olier st is E1.80 on web site but on ticket machine it is E2.35. Drivers are not out to steal from you, why would they.
    also a lot of passengers just mumble, so driver might hear wrong or drop money into slot with out saying anything, driver takes a quick look and gives the ticket they believe is correct


    Why are some drivers rude, obnoxious and generally horrible to deal with?
    Why are some passengers rude, obnoxious and generally horrible to deal with?


    Why will some drivers pack their bus to the gills (nearly to the point of it being seriously dangerous) when others fill it to the limit?
    The legal limit/overloading the bus is very simple to explain.
    there is a Robocop in city centre who has given penalty point and fine to driver for "dangerous overloading of a bus". This happens to driver only once, never again.
    Drivers who have had a incident because of a packed bus, management will put blame on driver for packed bus, so driver wont pack bus again.


    AND dont get me started on the joke of a leap card.......
    I suppose its just like the e-voting machines, the Port Tunnel and all the other stuff us Irish just cant get right....No wonder some think of us as the feckless irish!

    NTA keep loading new tickets on the leap card , the machines cannot cope are super slow and stop working a lot.
    See previous post for reason why the NTA are happy with this.


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    #50
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The current ticketing equipment was purchased by Dublin Bus, not the NTA. It was purchased when it was brand new equipment, and not at the end of its useful life. This seems to be a common misconception. It is due for replacement starting next year.

    Whilst I agree that it was not at the end of it's useful life or anything near it when it was purchased, it was a machine that had been around for several years beforehand and was based on pretty old technology.

    The newer version was released at around the same time Dublin bus ordered the older version and had they ordered the newer version then the majority of the issues being experienced now would not have occurred.

    The fact that CIE continue to purchase said machines even today for Bus Eireann, is very disappointing when new equipment is due next year.


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    #51
    s8080
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 102 ✭✭s8080


    The current ticketing equipment was purchased by Dublin Bus, not the NTA.
    NTA keep loading new products on leap, it cannot cope, see previous post as to why the NTA/government are happy with this massive loss of money and under reporting of passenger numbers

    As for passenger numbers, they are nowhere near the levels they were at the height of the boom, and really to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
    Who do you believe the NTA or your lying eyes?
    On a per bus/driver basis dublin bus are carrying as many as they ever had. The ticket machine are not recording these passengers as they stop working a lot, passengers are carried for free and not counted.

    Dublin Bus are permitted to apply to the NTA to operate additional services - there is nothing to stop them doing that, other than a lack of available buses and drivers.

    Dublin bus cannot put on extra buses, NTA must approve , facts are they don’t approve.
    Big exaggeration is lack of drivers and buses.
    Remember the reduced service during summer, some routes running a 80% normal week day service. While you where waiting in the rain and seeing bus after bus pass you at the stop full, those 20% drivers where in the depot watching TV. NTA would not allow them to be put to work as extras on busy routes. They spent the whole summer watching TV.
    Pre NTA dublin bus would have these drivers doing extra works where needed in the city.

    Happens all the time , a problem with the bus it has to be taken out of service and brought back to the depot to be changed.
    Driver goes up to inspector
    D- i need a new bus, xxx has a problem.
    I- wait there i will give you a bus as soon as one come into the yard
    D- there are 10 buses lined up against the wall over there,, can i take one?
    I- sorry you can’t, they are not to leave the yard, orders of the NTA.
    Pre NTA driver would have been given bus in yard straight away to get back to work.

    No doubt dublin bus had/has problems but the NTA is not the white knight riding to the rescue a lot here seem to think.


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    #52
    Tickityboo
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Tickityboo


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Fare paying passengers see people getting on for free multiple times every journey. It's called a travel pass, i haven't seen any big arguments erupt over it yet. That's a pretty poor excuse not to at least try and help someone who is also, by the way, a fare paying passenger.

    As for your gift card analogy. If I had only bought the thing ten minutes previously and had a detailed receipt which corresponds with the gift card in my hand then you can be damn sure that everything that can be done will be done to make sure i leave with the item i want. Retailers at least have some idea about customer service. As opposed to your Goodfellas "fúck you, pay me" method.

    In the case of the gift card you will not be gaining anything and the shop isn't providing anything free of charge.

    In the case of the leap card you will be gaining something free of charge and D.B. will be out of pocket.


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    #53
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Tickityboo wrote: »
    In the case of the gift card you will not be gaining anything and the shop isn't providing anything free of charge.

    In the case of the leap card you will be gaining something free of charge and D.B. will be out of pocket.

    Out of pocket by less than €3. Oh the insanity.

    Have you never been given anything for free in the interests of good customer relations?


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    #54
    Tickityboo
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Tickityboo


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Out of pocket by less than €3. Oh the insanity.

    Have you never been given anything for free in the interests of good customer relations?

    Yes plenty of times!!
    Multiply that €3 by at least 5 to 10 times per 700 to 800 buses per 364 days per year.
    I don't think that can be considered insignificant.


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    #55
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Tickityboo wrote: »
    Yes plenty of times!!
    Multiply that €3 by at least 5 to 10 times per duty per 600 to 700 buses per 364 days per year.
    I don't think that can be considered insignificant.

    I don't believe the scenario described, where a customer can prove the machine is wrong by providing a receipt confirming their balance, happens that often at all. So your figures are greatly exaggerated and thus irrelevant.

    My whole point is that based on the ops description the customer isn't provided any kind of customer service at all, simply a "it's not my problem" attitude.


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    #56
    Tickityboo
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Tickityboo


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    I don't believe the scenario described, where a customer can prove the machine is wrong by providing a receipt confirming their balance, happens that often at all. So your figures are greatly exaggerated and thus irrelevant.


    What makes you qualified to say I am wrong or exaggerating?
    Do you drive buses daily operating these machines?
    If not then you have no idea.
    I do drive buses daily and operate these machines and in my case the figures are not exaggerated or irrelevant.


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    #57
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Tickityboo wrote: »
    What makes you qualified to say I am wrong or exaggerating?
    Do you drive buses daily operating these machines?
    If not then you have no idea.
    I do drive buses daily and operate these machines and in my case the figures are not exaggerated or irrelevant.

    Okay so, how many times a day do people say to you "I only topped up my leap card 10 minutes ago"?


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    #58
    Tickityboo
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Tickityboo


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Okay so, how many times a day do people say to you "I only topped up my leap card 10 minutes ago"?

    I am on one of the busier routes and on average betwee 5 to 10 times per day as stated.
    They either say they topped it up or failed to realise it needed to be topped up and have no other means to pay.


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    #59
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Tickityboo wrote: »
    I am on one of the busier routes and on average betwee 5 to 10 times per day as stated.
    They either say they topped it up or failed to realise it needed to be topped up and have no other means to pay.
    And when they say they topped it up how many times do you respond with "Do you still have the receipt?"?


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    #60
    Tickityboo
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Tickityboo


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    And when they say they topped it up how many times do you respond with "Do you still have the receipt?"?

    Never!! If they want to prove it they will show me one.
    If they're trying to pull a fast one they won't and if they misplaced it sorry nothing I can do for you.


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    #61
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    My point exactly.


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