CI AGM 1 November 2014

GMCI · 13-10-2014 8:22pm

Yes Cumann Rás Tailteann are the promoting club of the Rás consisting of a number of members of the organising committee.

The Junior Tour is promoted by Usher Irish Road Club under Alice.
Rás na mBan is technically promoted by Usher Irish Road Club also under Valerie.

The Junior Tour has not had a title sponsor for a number of years now when there had been a title sponsor who never honoured the commitment thereafter.

So the support of the local council, IVCA, Cycling Ireland Grant and a whole load of good will from the same volunteers who people see week on week help pull it together. Potential sponsors simply dont seem interested in developing riders even though they are getting a hell of a lot of tv coverage if they committed financially.

After what was promoted this year on the tightest of budgets, race volunteers and helpers got tired of seeing this race potentially fold and this is one of the ideas they have come up with.

In relation to the new licence for volunteers, I dont know where it will go as the ruling s already there as Wav1 already spoke of:

"All persons riding a race or carrying out any function, in connection with any team, or with the organisation of the race, will hold a current licence from their National Federation, save marshals or other persons who are assisting in the running of the race, but who are not the race organisers. The organiser will be able to identify these non-licence holders if requested by the Chief Commissaire"

Hi Ho · 13-10-2014 8:23pm

wav1 wrote: »

You see the perception is that CI run things but they don't actually promote a single event

What exactly do you mean by 'CI' - the Board; the full-time administration staff; the volunteers on the various commissions; or what? Is it a bit simplistic to say that "CI" doesn't do this or does do that?

ragazzo · 13-10-2014 8:24pm

RobFowl wrote: »

It's the same in most countries.

Is the Tour of Britain run by a small club relying on the goodwill of volunteers to survive?
Is any Country's national tour really run the same as ours. Are you sure?
I always thought the Ràs was unique in the way it survived and has been run over the years.

wav1 · 13-10-2014 8:26pm

Inquitus wrote: »

Is this the case in other countries? or a uniquely Irish thing?

Wouldn't know enough to answer that question,but the ras is hugely unique where you have a 100 plus volunteer helpers who get their digs paid for and they cant do half enough for you,all for a round neck tee shirt and a dodgy cap.Some guys even use there own cars.But that's the way it is.Thats what makes these races special.If the fed were involved in organisation it def wouldn't be the same.

wav1 · 13-10-2014 8:28pm

Hi Ho wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by 'CI' - the Board; the full-time administration staff; the volunteers on the various commissions; or what? Is it a bit simplistic to say that "CI" doesn't do this or does do that?

Im sorry,but at no stage did I say CI do nothing.I was quite simply pointing out how events are run in this country..CI do run courses,coaching stuff etc,but the fact remains they don't run a single road race.

RobFowl · 13-10-2014 10:53pm

ragazzo wrote: »

Is the Tour of Britain run by a small club relying on the goodwill of volunteers to survive?
Is any Country's national tour really run the same as ours. Are you sure?
I always thought the Ràs was unique in the way it survived and has been run over the years.

The TOB run by Sweetspot sports a for profit company (who do a bloody good job)
TDF run by ASO another for profit company.
In fact I can't think of any national tours run by that countries federation....

The RAS is exceptional in that it's been run by a succession of simply outstanding individual with an army of experienced volunteers harking back to the first race run by Colm Christle

ragazzo · 13-10-2014 11:18pm

RobFowl wrote: »

The TOB run by Sweetspot sports a for profit company (who do a bloody good job)
TDF run by ASO another for profit company.
In fit I can't think of any national tours run by the countries federation....

The RAS is exceptional in that it's been run by a succession of simply outstanding individual with an army of experienced volunteers harking back to the first race run by Colm Christle

Exactly my point.

The Ràs is a uniquely Irish thing.

Lusk_Doyle · 14-10-2014 8:57am

RobFowl wrote: »

The TOB run by Sweetspot sports a for profit company (who do a bloody good job)
TDF run by ASO another for profit company.
In fact I can't think of any national tours run by that countries federation....

The RAS is exceptional in that it's been run by a succession of simply outstanding individual with an army of experienced volunteers harking back to the first race run by Colm Christle

So where there is not an actively engaged professional outfit promoting races, surely the national fed should step in and do a little bit more? I believe that the only professional org that we have seen here recently was for the Giro. There is no interest in amateur races it seems. That falls back to ci in my book. They are responsible for promoting the sport are they not?

Donegaler · 14-10-2014 8:59am

wav1 wrote: »

Im sorry,but at no stage did I say CI do nothing.I was quite simply pointing out how events are run in this country..CI do run courses,coaching stuff etc,but the fact remains they don't run a single road race.

Is there not a case for CI organising a race with 32 teams representing each of our counties.
Something along the lines of the Commonwealth Games.
Each county could have a 5 man team for the road race.Need not be done annually,say every 2nd year.
County boards could pick their team from members of clubs in that county?
Just an idea.!!!

Or what about the 3 other provinces asking to be eligible to compete as guests in Commonwealth Games same as Ulster?

Chips Lovell · 14-10-2014 9:21am

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

So where there is not an actively engaged professional outfit promoting races, surely the national fed should step in and do a little bit more? I believe that the only professional org that we have seen here recently was for the Giro. There is no interest in amateur races it seems. That falls back to ci in my book. They are responsible for promoting the sport are they not?

Are you volunteering?

buffalo · 14-10-2014 9:39am

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

So where there is not an actively engaged professional outfit promoting races, surely the national fed should step in and do a little bit more? I believe that the only professional org that we have seen here recently was for the Giro. There is no interest in amateur races it seems. That falls back to ci in my book. They are responsible for promoting the sport are they not?

Surely that puts CI in direct competition with other race promoters. Like UCI with their GCS outfit. They should be supporting races and race promoters, with funding and organisational assistance.

Lusk_Doyle · 14-10-2014 9:54am

buffalo wrote: »

Surely that puts CI in direct competition with other race promoters. Like UCI with their GCS outfit. They should be supporting races and race promoters, with funding and organisational assistance.

Which race promoters?

Lusk_Doyle · 14-10-2014 9:55am

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Are you volunteering?

Nope. I've a business to run!

Maybe someday in the future. You never know.

buffalo · 14-10-2014 10:03am

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Which race promoters?

All of them. The Rás promoters. The Shay Elliot promoters. The Stamullen weekend promoters. The Suir Valley promoters. If CI starts promoting their own races, it'll be in competition with someone, unless you know of a format and a date that wouldn't draw attendance away from an existing event?

Lusk_Doyle · 14-10-2014 10:45am

buffalo wrote: »

All of them. The Rás promoters. The Shay Elliot promoters. The Stamullen weekend promoters. The Suir Valley promoters. If CI starts promoting their own races, it'll be in competition with someone, unless you know of a format and a date that wouldn't draw attendance away from an existing event?

Perhaps I wasn't clear in what I meant. Those promoters that you have listed are clubs and volunteers. It's not their job to promote if you get me? They do so because the love the sport, etc. We are all aware of the financial difficulties involved in this and perhaps a more helping hand from ci would go a long way. Or ci could say that they wanted x amount of certain grade races in such and such a provence/county and offer meaningful assistance (financial or otherwise) to get more clubs interested. It seems to me that ci is not interested in doing this however. Are they that disinterested in it in that they feel they should not have this sort of involvement? More hands on in engaging clubs is what I say. More races, more often. Give greater choice. You made a loss on the last race? Send us in all you receipts and accounts for the races and we will see if we can help out. This type of thing.

buffalo · 14-10-2014 12:40pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Perhaps I wasn't clear in what I meant. Those promoters that you have listed are clubs and volunteers. It's not their job to promote if you get me? They do so because the love the sport, etc. We are all aware of the financial difficulties involved in this and perhaps a more helping hand from ci would go a long way. Or ci could say that they wanted x amount of certain grade races in such and such a provence/county and offer meaningful assistance (financial or otherwise) to get more clubs interested. It seems to me that ci is not interested in doing this however. Are they that disinterested in it in that they feel they should not have this sort of involvement? More hands on in engaging clubs is what I say. More races, more often. Give greater choice. You made a loss on the last race? Send us in all you receipts and accounts for the races and we will see if we can help out. This type of thing.

Clubs promote races - e.g. http://www.stickybottle.com/races-results/full-results-for-christy-mcmanus-memorial-promoted-by-bray-wheelers/

I think a better term for what you mean would be marketing and assistance.

wav1 · 14-10-2014 12:41pm

Very interesting post in the thread ''Eddie is gone to UK''
Suggests that the CI budget ran out in the lead up to the World R/R Champs,and no funding was available to make overseas preparation races,an option in the run up to the champs.With all the discussion here re grants and funding etc,it just goes to show how tight funds seem to be.
With a membership now of circa 23k and with the economy improving in this little country of ours,every possible angle must be looked at by the incoming board and staff to try and get a decent corporate title sponsor on board for the federation.Easier said than done,but if we cant get it now with the boom in the sport,we may never get it.Would help financially across the board,high performance,race grants,etc.Need to cast that net wide and now.

fortis · 14-10-2014 2:31pm

wav1 wrote: »

Very interesting post in the thread ''Eddie is gone to UK''
Suggests that the CI budget ran out in the lead up to the World R/R Champs,and no funding was available to make overseas preparation races,an option in the run up to the champs.With all the discussion here re grants and funding etc,it just goes to show how tight funds seem to be.
With a membership now of circa 23k and with the economy improving in this little country of ours,every possible angle must be looked at by the incoming board and staff to try and get a decent corporate title sponsor on board for the federation.Easier said than done,but if we cant get it now with the boom in the sport,we may never get it.Would help financially across the board,high performance,race grants,etc.Need to cast that net wide and now.

In someways it seems a bit of a chicken and egg kind of scenario

Yea membership is highest ever at 23K, but it seems to be the same clubs/faces involved in racing in particular even years after the "boom"

But CI do little to nothing to promote domestic racing (and in fact seem to hamper it in many ways even though they aren't even involved). Their focus seems to be on the international scene rightly or wrongly.

The Ras is indeed unique but the national champs is not. The fact they have such a laissez faire attitude to that alone is pretty terrible. I helped out at this years nationals and know quite a few of the people involved. They put on a great event (and were unfortunate with the vets events and my thoughts with the people involved in the terrible accident that day...) but got close to zero help with it from CI. They were frustrated. Tbh I dunno why any club would sign up for it.

The impression I got from the officials (as I generally do) - bit of a swagger. Drive around in the sponsored skoda, look official. Didn't do much. Everything was left to the club pretty much. They were there of course to present the prizes and get the photos taken.

Racing is well organised in this country I think considering. It's a marginal sport and maintained by passionate people. CI do very little to change that though (the marginal part). Maybe they are not able (due to financial constraints) and that's just the reality of it for years to come until it reaches a real critical mass like bigger sports (gaa, soccer, rugby), if ever.

Beasty · 14-10-2014 2:40pm

fortis wrote: »

Racing is well organised in this country I think considering. It's a marginal sport and maintained by passionate people. CI do very little to change that though (the marginal part). Maybe they are not able (due to financial constraints) and that's just the reality of it for years to come until it reaches a real critical mass like bigger sports (gaa, soccer, rugby), if ever.

Cycle racing is always going to be a participant sport in Ireland. Only the occasional one-off such as the Giro are going to attract any of the type of money associated with the so-called "bigger" sports (they may be bigger in terms of spectators and sponsors but certainly not in terms of participation)

Like it or not though CI's resources are limited. Many of those 23,000 member actually cost money because they take advantage of the introductory offer. CI's recent survey actually put domestic racing way down the priority list and it need to be recognised that CI really is not all about racing

fortis · 14-10-2014 2:50pm

Beasty wrote: »

Cycle racing is always going to be a participant sport in Ireland. Only the occasional one-off such as the Giro are going to attract any of the type of money associated with the so-called "bigger" sports (they may be bigger in terms of spectators and sponsors but certainly not in terms of participation)

Like it or not though CI's resources are limited. Many of those 23,000 member actually cost money because they take advantage of the introductory offer. CI's recent survey actually put domestic racing way down the priority list and it need to be recognised that CI really is not all about racing

Maybe not, but pretty much every proposal on the AGM list relates to racing.

So of the CI general membership, what matters to them most? Judging by the issues being raised at the AGM - racing.

wav1 · 14-10-2014 2:55pm

Beasty wrote: »

Cycle racing is always going to be a participant sport in Ireland. Only the occasional one-off such as the Giro are going to attract any of the type of money associated with the so-called "bigger" sports (they may be bigger in terms of spectators and sponsors but certainly not in terms of participation)

Like it or not though CI's resources are limited. Many of those 23,000 member actually cost money because they take advantage of the introductory offer. CI's recent survey actually put domestic racing way down the priority list and it need to be recognised that CI really is not all about racing

Couple of things here
CI are proposing to abolish the introductory licence,because I think,as you say its actually costing the fed money to have them as members.Not sure of the figures but I think theres actually no income to the fed from leisure/non racing licences,when you factor in the insurance cost and process cost per licence.So probably from approx. 17k members there is no income at all,and TBH a huge amount of those 17k know absouloutely nothing about CI and probably care less,as they are quite happy with the insurance that the e25 brings.So this may be a mad statement,but the leisure/non racing licence is probably too cheap.So if you add all of this together,how many of the 23k members actually have a real interest in the federation.
I am aware of the survey,and as you say its not all about racing,but realistically what could be done for the leisure section @e25 per head.
Also,i do feel that the racing/competitive sector across the disciplines is the very essence of the sport.

buffalo · 14-10-2014 2:56pm

fortis wrote: »

Maybe not, but pretty much every proposal on the AGM list relates to racing.

So of the CI general membership, what matters to them most? Judging by the issues being raised at the AGM - racing.

I think you're interpreting it incorrectly - of the CI general membership, who are the most passionate and involved at a high level? The racers and race organisers.

If you looked at the numbers who make up the membership, I'd imagine the vast majority of members are leisure cyclists, who see no need to get involved.

ragazzo · 14-10-2014 3:39pm

wav1 wrote: »

Couple of things here
CI are proposing to abolish the introductory licence,because I think,as you say its actually costing the fed money to have them as members.Not sure of the figures but I think theres actually no income to the fed from leisure/non racing licences,when you factor in the insurance cost and process cost per licence.So probably from approx. 17k members there is no income at all,and TBH a huge amount of those 17k know absouloutely nothing about CI and probably care less,as they are quite happy with the insurance that the e25 brings.So this may be a mad statement,but the leisure/non racing licence is probably too cheap.So if you add all of this together,how many of the 23k members actually have a real interest in the federation.
I am aware of the survey,and as you say its not all about racing,but realistically what could be done for the leisure section @e25 per head.
Also,i do feel that the racing/competitive sector across the disciplines is the very essence of the sport.

The Standard licence is €25 per annum. The Introductory is €15 which increased from €10 a couple of years ago.

These licences were brought out to boost membership figures. This probably looked good in the short term but obviously the pricing structure has become a financial drain as the years passed.

The passion and the input seems to be only in the racing side with dedicated volunteers giving their time freely across the different racing disciplines.

I am not sure if the sportives have brought any sustainable advantage to Irish cycling in general. They are fine for raising money for various charities and other sports clubs. The leisure side of the sport is growing and this can be seen on our roads at the weekends. You will always pass groups of cyclists whereas you might not have seen any in the past.

This growth in numbers does not seem to have helped domestic cycling or any racing discipline.
There is a big increase in racing licences but this does not seem to translate to numbers actually racing.
Perhaps this is not a bad thing because if all competition licence holders turned up to race then the structures across the various venues would probably not accomodate them.

It is a tough job and difficult to get right but I think that scrapping the Introductory licence would be a positive move.

CramCycle · 14-10-2014 3:52pm

The other reason for boosting numbers from talking to people at last years AGM, is that alot of grants and funding looks at membership numbers, like it or not, without the membership numbers increasing, the funding would also decrease from government funded sources.

QueensGael · 14-10-2014 4:24pm

Interesting to see that despite the huge number of leisure cyclists, there's no Leisure Commission at the moment.

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/cycling-news-item/cycling-ireland-commissions-agm/373

If I was solely doing leisure events though, I think I'd be pretty satisfied with the line-up of events - there isn't a weekend during the summer where there isn't some sportive or series on. There was even a discussion of reaching "peak sportive" around the time the Bobby Power was scheduled. I wouldn't see the need to get more involved.

It's only after I got into the racing side (participating and organising) that I realised that the whole show across the country rests on a relatively small number of shoulders. I'm in favour of CI allocating its resources to the minority % of members who are supporting the racing scene. It doesn't need to be €€€, although that's never a bad thing, it's things like having someone available on the phone at the CI office to help out when you're trying to get stuff set up.

ragazzo · 14-10-2014 4:35pm

CramCycle wrote: »

The other reason for boosting numbers from talking to people at last years AGM, is that alot of grants and funding looks at membership numbers, like it or not, without the membership numbers increasing, the funding would also decrease from government funded sources.

Grants and funding are based on membership numbers which is possibly the main reason that CI brought out the Introductory Licence at a price of €10 a number of years ago.
This could only have been a short term measure as the costs of such a move would not be sustainable in the long term. It has since increased in price to €15.
It is time to abolish this licence and an increase is probably due on the price of the €25 Standard or Leisure Licence.

It seems the level of grant aid is decreasing despite the increases in general membership of CI.

wav1 · 14-10-2014 4:42pm

AFAIK the Sports Council money/funding is mainly high performance related.And as an extension of that Olympic programme related.Its sad really but it does appear,that there are no more funds available now,than there was when we had 5000 members.Huge staff now also,compared to them times,and they have to be paid as well.

ragazzo · 14-10-2014 4:52pm

wav1 wrote: »

AFAIK the Sports Council money/funding is mainly high performance related.And as an extension of that Olympic programme related.Its sad really but it does appear,that there are no more funds available now,than there was when we had 5000 members.Huge staff now also,compared to them times,and they have to be paid as well.

I think at the time of the Introductory Licence first appearing that membership numbers had a bearing on overall funds allocated to CI.
The situation changed since that time and now grant allocations are more high performance and results based.

Morana is probably the man to detail the reality of the funding process.

buffalo · 14-10-2014 5:01pm

QueensGael wrote: »

I'm in favour of CI allocating its resources to the minority % of members who are supporting the racing scene. It doesn't need to be €€€, although that's never a bad thing, it's things like having someone available on the phone at the CI office to help out when you're trying to get stuff set up.

You should run for election, you'd have my vote!

QueensGael · 14-10-2014 5:06pm

buffalo wrote: »

You should run for election, you'd have my vote!

Well, funny you mention that now…

CI AGM 1 November 2014

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