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Moderation in Atheism & Agnosticism Thread

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    #92
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Last time.
    Please show the posts that you are saying justify Cabaal making the statement that Mary365 doesnt care about aspects of her child's upbringing.

    I think its completely out of left field and a personal attack.
    You state that its not based on the posters previous posts.
    Hence those posts form the basis of your defense.
    Please demonstrate this evidence that you are relying.

    You're like some sort of broken record,

    You've claimed time and time again that this is about moderation in the forum yet you seem awful obsessed with just my posts.
    :rolleyes:

    Anyway,

    Mary63 stated:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92144318&postcount=736
    I also dont want our teacher and principals time taken up with this splitting of hairs.I would prefer an educate together school but the logistics of getting to one dont suit me.I dont care if my child participate in buddhism,Jehovahs witness brainwashing etc as long as its only for a mimimum amount of time.The Op couldnt even be bothered establishing how much time is actually spent on religion,he assumed it would be nominal because its all rubbish to him,he now finds its more than he bargained for so he wants the curriculum revised to suit him.
    Yes,option three,go back to Educate together or ask the muslim cleric who wants us to be more inclusive,can he enrol your athiest daughter.

    Then stated:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92144488&postcount=743
    The school arent accomodating at all,they make no provision for children who dont want to participate other than telling them to bring in their nintendos while the whole of second class is taken up with making Holy Communion.
    Ruairi Quinn with the eU,Irish law and the constitution didnt get very far with his reform proposals.
    The facts are most irish people dont care what goes on in school,they are up to their arses in debt,dropping children to school,rushing to work,rushing to pick them up,its never ending.They know the local catholic school provides an excellent education,its free,its convenient,they know the rules of the club,they like the communion and dont want it taken out of school because that means they have to bring the child to church at the weekend.They are sick and tired of being called hypoctrites and sheep,they know they are but couldnt care less really.
    They arent using their children to stand on points of principle either,this whole situation is very unfair to a seven year old trying to fit into a new school.

    In which I responded:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92144559&postcount=744
    Its a sad reflection on this society when you think that so many parents just don't care about the upbringing of their children, from your previous post you also don't seem too concerned about aspects of it either.

    Of course some don't, they just tick the boxes and go along with stuff for the sake of social conformity.

    But thankfully many others like the OP don't and they play an active part in the upbringing of their child. The op should be extremely proud of their child and themselves as they've taken an active part in things and they have a child that knows what they want....or in this case, not want

    I'm not attacking the poster at all but at the same time she had said she doesn't care so its far for me to say she doesn't seem too concerned about aspects of her childs education.

    Do i think she's a bad parent?, no of course not. Is it a personal attack? No its not. Its a fair comment based on the posters own comments.

    I'm merely commenting on the fact that they said that
    I dont care if my child participate in buddhism,Jehovahs witness brainwashing etc as long as its only for a mimimum amount of time.

    It is certainly fair for me to say that the op is not too concerned about aspects of their childs religious education when they themselves have already said they don't care.

    You seem awful obsessed with my posts and why mods didn't warn me when I responded to Mary,

    I'm sure if Mary had or still has a problem with my posts then she can report them....

    I don't think she needs somebody else to fight her battles for her she's an adult after all and is well capable of forming her own views and opinions. She's likely well capable of doing so herself.

    For some reason you've taken it upon yourself to try and fight a battle for her for a comment that you merely think is personal abuse against her, its all rather odd.


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    #93
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,577 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Cabaal wrote: »
    I'm not attacking the poster at all but at the same time she had said she doesn't care so its far for me to say she doesn't seem too concerned about aspects of her childs education.

    Do i think she's a bad parent?, no of course not. Is it a personal attack? No its not. Its a fair comment based on the posters own comments.

    I'm merely commenting on the fact that they said that
    I dont care if my child participate in buddhism,Jehovahs witness brainwashing etc as long as its only for a mimimum amount of time.

    It is certainly fair for me to say that the op is not too concerned about aspects of their childs religious education when they themselves have already said they don't care.

    I can't agree with this at all. The key point here is 'as long as it's a minimum amount of time only.'

    It's like a parent saying they don't mind their child eating junk food at a party, as long as it's only once a fortnight or so, and another poster saying they are clearly saying they don't care about their child's diet.


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    #94
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    osarusan wrote: »
    It's like a parent saying they don't mind their child eating junk food at a party, as long as it's only once a fortnight or so, and another poster saying they are clearly saying they don't care about their child's diet.

    But thats not what I said,

    I said
    from your previous post you also don't seem too concerned about aspects of it either.


    For starters your example is flawed,
    It would be like a parent posting that they don't care if their child eats junk food.

    So, in this example it would be like somebody responding with
    from your previous post you also don't seem too concerned about aspects of your child's diet.

    Its a fair comment,
    I'm not saying they are an awful parent, I'm not attacking them I'm merely saying that in my view they don't care about aspects of their children's diet because they don't care if their child eats junk food.

    If I said
    from your previous post you also don't seem too concerned about your childs diet at all.

    Then I suppose it would label them as completely uncaring in every aspect of the childs diet,

    I never thought Mary was completely uncaring about her children's education...the fact she took an interest in a thread about education shows she has an interest in the topic.

    But its fair based on her comment of "I don't care" that she doesn't really care about aspects of it...in this case religious teaching.


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    #95
    andyman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭andyman


    It all sounds like a play with words to make something sound nice if you ask me.


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    #96
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,577 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Cabaal wrote: »
    But its fair based on her comment of "I don't care" that she doesn't really care about aspects of it...in this case religious teaching.

    It isn't fair at all, and I can't honestly believe you think that.

    Why are you ignoring the ' as its only for a mimimum amount of time' ending of the sentence?

    That, to me, says that the poster does care about it, and recognises the potential problem with it, but is willing to tolerate it as long as the child is exposed to the 'brainwashing' for the minimum amount of time.

    You're just parsing a quote to suit you and ignoring the rest of it.


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    #97
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Is this not moderation?.

    Why was weathering singled out like this?
    He hadnt called anyone a prick at this stage.
    BOTH posters were warned to lay off the handbags. In the very next post Weathering ignored this and repeated his earlier accusation - so Robin reminded him of the warning (no card - no nothing). Is that your idea of singling out? Because there were no other mod interaction until the suicide by cop.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    Do you disagree that Cabaals post (referenced several times above) is personal abuse?
    Quite possibly.

    Cabaal's post was only one of many on BOTH sides that possibly crossed that line. Collectively these were let slide with verbals in the hope that people would cop on. Do you think the only personal abuse was from the locals? Because that simply isn't the case. And because that isn't the case this idea of bias doesn't work.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    Do you think regulars should be treated with less leniency than new posters?
    Do you think admins should be treated with less leniency than new posers?.
    Again, you've failed in the one thing required of you here: to show that new posters are moderated differently than regulars. Your example above is wafer thin if that's all you have to offer.


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    #98
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    andyman wrote: »
    It all sounds like a play with words to make something sound nice if you ask me.

    The thing is I'm sure Mary63 is well capable of taking issue with my post if she found them offensive.

    Not sure why GreeBo has taken it upon themselves to talk on her behalf in relation to what is offensive or not. I sort of think its disrespectful to Mary63 ,

    I know i wouldn't want somebody trying to claim that somebody in a reply made to me was offensive to me and posting about it in feedback, I'm well capable of reporting posts etc myself at the end of the day. :)


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    #99
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    There is a degree of truth to the OPs general point but the thread in question isn't a particularly good example of it and it is beginning to smell like a personal grudge of some sort being played out here.


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    #100
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    drkpower wrote: »
    There is a degree of truth to the OPs general point but the thread in question isn't a particularly good example of it and it is beginning to smell like a personal grudge of some sort being played out here.

    .....and by some of the usual suspects (and some close associates), at least two of which have disciplinary records in A&A as long as ones arm.


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    #101
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I don't think there's anything to be gained by going down that road. In the case of at least one of those "suspects" they had a legitimate grievance at one point which I hope is in the past after thrashing it out.


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    #102
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Nodin wrote: »
    .....and by some of the usual suspects (and some close associates), at least two of which have disciplinary records in A&A as long as ones arm.

    Their disciplinary records are irrelevant if their points have merit.


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    #103
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Their disciplinary records are irrelevant if their points have merit.


    "if" being the operative word.
    Dades wrote:
    In the case of at least one of those "suspects" they had a legitimate grievance at one point which I hope is in the past after thrashing it out. .

    One of them might have, but this sounds a bit familiar, I think
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92150565&postcount=68

    Somebody with no disciplinary record, however, seems to have buried the hatchet, but marked the spot for future retrieval - this is definitely familiar, to the extent of evoking a sense of deja vu.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92153308&postcount=78


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    #104
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Just adding this link for reference.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90945885&postcount=437

    It's where a rather lengthy discussion was had on jank,rob, libertarianism, the forum populace and moderation.


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    #105
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Turtwig wrote: »
    Just adding this link for reference.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=90945885&postcount=437

    It's where a rather lengthy discussion was had on jank,rob, libertarianism, the forum populace and moderation.

    Ok so is this to show bias of the user in question or what? are the points the user makes relevant?

    Do you have any quick links to the moderation decisions? because no matter where this thread is now for me the only issue i have with the whole discussion is the personal attacks and ignorance of moderator warnings which seem to have been ignored.


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    #106
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #107
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Anyone active in the forum has seen certain users receive bans etc
    Mods generally post them on thread when they give them,

    You might want to take your tinfoil hat off, public post's are not sensitive super secret moderator information


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    #108
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #109
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Calhoun, the thread is about moderation in a and a. As perma mentioned libertarian issues I thought it only apt to provide readers with reference to past discussion on the issue. As old ground is invariably going to be rethreaded and some posters might not be feel bothered about repeating themselves.

    Perma, I'd guess he either commits to memory or has read posts where admin publicly reveal such info. (not sure if they should, but that's another topic)


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    #110
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #111
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Not a personal insult, but if you felt it was one then I'm sorry you felt it was one. :)

    You did however jump to a pie in the sky conclusion even though you had zero evidence to support your belief that Nodin somehow had access to information that only moderators have access to.


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    #112
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Not helping anyone here lads. Can we give it a rest?


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    #113
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,115 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dades wrote: »
    BOTH posters were warned to lay off the handbags. In the very next post Weathering ignored this and repeated his earlier accusation - so Robin reminded him of the warning (no card - no nothing). Is that your idea of singling out? Because there were no other mod interaction until the suicide by cop.
    In Cabaal's next post he also continued with the line of posting that the warning was about yet nothing, no reminders.
    His handbags are somehow ok.

    If you are now saying that an on thread warning, specifically to a poster, isnt moderation then I'm calling bull**** and can easily point you to another thread where you promote on thread warnings as the first act of moderation.
    Dades wrote: »
    Quite possibly.
    You quite possible agree or disagree?
    Dades wrote: »
    Cabaal's post was only one of many on BOTH sides that possibly crossed that line. Collectively these were let slide with verbals in the hope that people would cop on. Do you think the only personal abuse was from the locals? Because that simply isn't the case. And because that isn't the case this idea of bias doesn't work.
    No I dont. I believe that only a non local was moderated. No one else was.
    Dades wrote: »
    Again, you've failed in the one thing required of you here: to show that new posters are moderated differently than regulars. Your example above is wafer thin if that's all you have to offer.
    See my first point.
    One user gets a personal warning for not dropping the topic, the other poster, Cabaal does not. Why?


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    #114
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,115 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Cabaal wrote: »
    You're like some sort of broken record,

    You've claimed time and time again that this is about moderation in the forum yet you seem awful obsessed with just my posts.
    :rolleyes:

    Anyway,

    Mary63 stated:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92144318&postcount=736



    Then stated:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92144488&postcount=743


    In which I responded:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92144559&postcount=744



    I'm not attacking the poster at all but at the same time she had said she doesn't care so its far for me to say she doesn't seem too concerned about aspects of her childs education.

    Do i think she's a bad parent?, no of course not. Is it a personal attack? No its not. Its a fair comment based on the posters own comments.

    I'm merely commenting on the fact that they said that


    It is certainly fair for me to say that the op is not too concerned about aspects of their childs religious education when they themselves have already said they don't care.

    You seem awful obsessed with my posts and why mods didn't warn me when I responded to Mary,

    I'm sure if Mary had or still has a problem with my posts then she can report them....

    I don't think she needs somebody else to fight her battles for her she's an adult after all and is well capable of forming her own views and opinions. She's likely well capable of doing so herself.

    For some reason you've taken it upon yourself to try and fight a battle for her for a comment that you merely think is personal abuse against her, its all rather odd.

    Again its about the moderation (or rather the complete lack of) of your posts.
    I have a problem with your abusive posts not being moderated, I could care less about you, despite what you may think.


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    #115
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    GreeBo wrote: »
    No I dont. I believe that only a non local was moderated. No one else was.

    One regular was carded and I know that at least one other forum regular received an on thread warning.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #116
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,860 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If you are now saying that an on thread warning, specifically to a poster, isnt moderation then I'm calling bull**** and can easily point you to another thread where you promote on thread warnings as the first act of moderation.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    I have a problem with your abusive posts not being moderated, I could care less about you, despite what you may think.

    Comments like those are going to do your argument no favours. You're coming across badly here.

    Back to the topic, on-thread warnings aren't even contestable in DRP so I don't know why you're so fixated on this one.


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    #117
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Just to point out. That linked card above was a result of a accumulation of similar recent verbal warnings in the forum. Had other posters, e.g greebo made that remark there would likely just have been a pm or in thread verbal.


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    #118
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    GreeBo wrote: »
    In Cabaal's next post he also continued with the line of posting that the warning was about yet nothing, no reminders.

    No I dont. I believe that only a non local was moderated. No one else was.

    See my first point.
    One user gets a personal warning for not dropping the topic, the other poster, Cabaal does not. Why?
    Let's assume for a moment one guy got a verbal and another didn't - is that worth a Feedback accusation of preferential moderating?

    There's 916 posts and counting in that thread.


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    #119
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,115 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dades wrote: »
    Let's assume for a moment one guy got a verbal and another didn't - is that worth a Feedback accusation of preferential moderating?

    There's 916 posts and counting in that thread.

    "Assume"?
    Seriously?

    I have zero personal interest in this forum, I think the current thread is the only time I have ever posted in it.
    This isn't a personal grudge or bias on my part. How its moderated makes no difference to me now or likely in the future.

    I saw something that I felt was wrong and brought it up here. The fact that it involved multiple mods and an admin meant that I had hoped some others from outside the forum regulars would comment, and indeed they did, however no one of any authority other than the admin in question replied so I'm not sure its achieving anything.

    Enjoy.


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    #120
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,860 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I have zero personal interest in this forum, I think the current thread is the only time I have ever posted in it.
    This isn't a personal grudge or bias on my part. How its moderated makes no difference to me now or likely in the future.

    So you started a thread in the forum that's intended for feedback with site-wide relevance, all because of one incident in one busy thread in one forum that you've never used before. It wasn't a pattern of behaviour that you observed over time. It wasn't something that could be of major importance to 1100 other forums on the site.

    Why didn't you just report the problem post?


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    #121
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    Not for me to question why someone starts a feedback thread, but GreeBo's last paragraph offers a reasonable explanation I think.

    I found the thread quite enlightening anyway.


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