Football All Stars 2014

CurryFlavoured · 03-09-2014 7:52pm

Connolly was better than Flynn on Sunday but Flynn's been better for Dublin over the season, I'd say that he's been our best player. Best half forward in the Country imo, not as fancy as Connolly but he does everything very well or better.

To say that it's clear that plenty are more deserving is ridiculous FatRat. Name me 3 more deserving.

dxhound2005 · 03-09-2014 8:07pm

DoctaDee wrote: »

Nah .. All Star awards just give a context to bar stool talk around the country - perpetuated by journos and ourselves on here (as can be seen). They're just a snapshot of a trending popularity contest at any moment in time. I'd suggest that prior to the 2 semis last weekend - Dublin & Mayo would've accounted for around 60-70% of the all stars. One match on and you're looking at maybe 25% combined. Reminds me a lot of that xfactor program, where yer nailed on certainty one week becomes yer the man to vote off the next - such is human nature and our need to follow the herd.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that it is the players who choose the winners. I haven't checked but I would assume that an equal number of players from each county have a vote and it is a secret ballot. It is from a shortlist nominated by journalists but I can't see anything wrong with that. When the GPA had their own awards for a few years it didn't result in any more winners from outside the four semi finalists.

Something which I have just learned and may be little known is that the winners get €1500, POTY gets €5000 and players of the month get €1000 (as of 2011, maybe it has changed?).

Boom__Boom · 03-09-2014 9:07pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You seem to be ignoring the fact that it is the players who choose the winners. I haven't checked but I would assume that an equal number of players from each county have a vote and it is a secret ballot. It is from a shortlist nominated by journalists but I can't see anything wrong with that. When the GPA had their own awards for a few years it didn't result in any more winners from outside the four semi finalists

Given it's intercounty players from other counties voting you'd imagine that appearing on television in the later rounds is a huge factor as you'd imagine those are the games are much easier for intercounty players to watch - much less likely to be club matches/training/other events on during the final/semi-finalists. [How many intercounty players make plans for the 3rd Sunday of September - even from the "minnow" counties?]

It would be very interesting to see whether any/many votes for players come from teams they have played against? Are traditional team rivalries a factor? Do lads vote for guys they played Sigerson with? Do lads harbour grudges from previous years/U21/minors (that lad hit me a flake when we were playing minor 8 years ago - no way I'm voting for him).

How much do media influence things - is having a media profile an issue? [wonder if Connolly's off-the-pitch legal issues may harm his chances?]

I wonder how many people don't vote or don't fill it out fully.

Similarly it's no wonder that league form is a complete non-factor as so many league games take place at the same time and the poor coverage on RTE

dxhound2005 · 03-09-2014 9:36pm

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Given it's intercounty players from other counties voting you'd imagine that appearing on television in the later rounds is a huge factor as you'd imagine those are the games are much easier for intercounty players to watch - much less likely to be club matches/training/other events on during the final/semi-finalists. [How many intercounty players make plans for the 3rd Sunday of September - even from the "minnow" counties?]

It would be very interesting to see whether any/many votes for players come from teams they have played against? Are traditional team rivalries a factor? Do lads vote for guys they played Sigerson with? Do lads harbour grudges from previous years/U21/minors (that lad hit me a flake when we were playing minor 8 years ago - no way I'm voting for him).

How much do media influence things - is having a media profile an issue? [wonder if Connolly's off-the-pitch legal issues may harm his chances?]

I wonder how many people don't vote or don't fill it out fully.

Similarly it's no wonder that league form is a complete non-factor as so many league games take place at the same time and the poor coverage on RTE

They only get three to choose from for each position so those factors you mentioned won't come into play for the majority of players. If the system was allow everyone to vote for any player who had played inter county during the season, no doubt players would choose their own teammates and friends.

How those 45 are chosen might not be perfect but I can't think of a better group to do so than the GAA journalists. I think the GPA have an input as well. Other sports e.g. soccer seem to manage to give similar awards, even on a Europe wide basis without the players being able to watch each other live.

Boom__Boom · 03-09-2014 11:13pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

They only get three to choose from for each position so those factors you mentioned won't come into play for the majority of players. If the system was allow everyone to vote for any player who had played inter county during the season, no doubt players would choose their own teammates and friends.

How those 45 are chosen might not be perfect but I can't think of a better group to do so than the GAA journalists. I think the GPA have an input as well. Other sports e.g. soccer seem to manage to give similar awards, even on a Europe wide basis without the players being able to watch each other live.

Doh - if I had been thinking straight i would have realised that.

I think that the fact that the 4 teams who won their provincial finals were the 4 teams that got to the semis really makes it very likely that the 15 winners will come from those 4 teams.

Dublin have lost 1 championship match, Mayo lost 1 (after a replay) and Donegal/Kerry will have lost 1 championship match all at the business end of affairs.

Compared to that Cork, Monaghan, Armagh and Galway have all lost 2 games at earlier stages.

On the watching live - its not about watching live versus watching on television - there is a serious difference in the volume of soccer on television compared to the volume of gaa, especially if you are on a team that doesnt get to the semis/finals.

Nidgeweasel · 04-09-2014 12:15am

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Dessie Mone will probably get an all star this year.

McNiallis should win the young footballer of the year award although I have a feeling Ryan McHugh will probably win it now.

I agree with this. McHugh is the easy option and glamour one given who his ould boy is.

J Cheever Loophole · 04-09-2014 8:33am

harpsman wrote: »

I think the fact that no Armagh games iirc were on RTE-they had quite a low profile championship apart from their antics against Donegal.

You know, as ridiculous as it might sound, you mightn't be far wrong - we did indeed feature heavily on sky and it would be entirely in keeping with some of the decision making criteria for the All Stars that the judges having paid their sky subscription or not, might indeed be a factor.

harpsman wrote: »

they had quite a low profile championship apart from their antics against Donegal.

Seriously man - let it go - why don't you just enjoy your success rather than being swallowed up by the bitter memories of the noughties?

Redsoxfan · 04-09-2014 1:03pm

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

I agree with this. McHugh is the easy option and glamour one given who his ould boy is.

MacNiallais doesn't qualify, he's overage.

On the 'easy option' tag, he was one of the favourites along with Costello, McCaffrey and Mannion before Sunday and is now easily the favourite ahead of those three.

You could make the argument for Shane Walsh I'm sure, but McHugh has played consistently well on a winning team throughout the Championship.

I don't really see how he is the 'easy' option - if he wins it, it will be well earned.

robbiezero · 04-09-2014 1:50pm

GBXI wrote: »

Oh Mayo are near certainties to get two All Stars anyway, Higgins and O'Connor. Decent possibility of a third, as I was saying, in O'Shea. But half forward line will probably be McHugh, Connolly, Flynn. I thought Hennelly had a great year and would be very close but if Donegal win Durkan is a cert to get the no. 1 jersey, and if Kerry win, it'll most likely be the Kerry keeper, that's just the way it goes as you say with finalists. On Shane Walsh, he has been and is the best number 11 in Ireland this year but he hasn't a notion of winning one. Definite nomination though.

Won't win one. Did a lot of his best work against lesser teams. Not so prominent v Mayo and Kerry when most needed. Quite a few half-forwards I would have on a team before him.

robbiezero · 04-09-2014 2:06pm

DoctaDee wrote: »

So you discount a seasons football for the result of one match ? ... either a semi final or final .. be on a winning team in either and that merits an award greater than someone that's performed all year ?... You are right btw, that's exactly the benchmark they use, it's a current opinion which is fresher in the mind - winners are winners in every respect - the losers are just asked to fade away.

They'll put 15 names on a piece of paper and announce them as the best footballers in Ireland, some GAA folk will nod with approval, others like me will read it once and consign it to the rubbish

At times that can makes sense. There was probably a few Dublin defenders like Cooper and O'Carroll up for awards until last Sunday and are now out of the running and rightly so. If you don't perform on your biggest stage against the best opposition it should count heavily against you.

washman3 · 04-09-2014 2:39pm

SeanJ09 wrote: »

O'Shea was phenomenal in the Cork game and Kerry games. Deserves one at number 11 IMO.

Jesus wept..!!!
we might as well give one to James Horan at wing forward too.

Ronie32 · 04-09-2014 3:43pm

1. Durcan
2. Higgins
3. McGee
4. O'Se/McGlynn
5. ???
6. Crowley
7. Boyle
8. Moran
9. McNiallis
10. Flynn
11. Connolly/O'Shea
12. Mchugh
13. Donoghue
14. Murphy
15. O'Connor

Utopia Parkway · 04-09-2014 3:50pm

Redsoxfan wrote: »

You could make the argument for Shane Walsh I'm sure, but McHugh has played consistently well on a winning team throughout the Championship.

Shane Walsh was probably the YPOTY up to the quarter-final stage (think he was even the leading scorer in the championship up to that point) but rightly or wrongly you have little chance of any of these awards or even an All-Star unless your team gets to the semi-finals at least.

BonnieSituation · 04-09-2014 4:02pm

Ronie32 wrote: »

1. Durcan
2. Higgins
3. McGee
4. O'Se/McGlynn
5. ???
6. Crowley
7. Boyle
8. Moran
9. McNiallis
10. Flynn
11. Connolly/O'Shea
12. Mchugh
13. Donoghue
14. Murphy
15. O'Connor

I'd have McGlynn in there before Ó Sé.

Rightly it's a flip of a coin for Connolly and O'Shea.

Completely agree elsewhere.

Especially ??? at 5. Magnificent all year. :P

Poor_old_gill · 04-09-2014 4:06pm

I'd be very, very surprised if O Shea gets one ahead of Connolly as he had a mediocre year and played completely in fits and starts

DarByrne1980 · 04-09-2014 4:27pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Rightly it's a flip of a coin for Connolly and O'Shea.

I love to hate Connolly but I think he had a great championship. Would definitely get my nod

harpsman · 04-09-2014 7:01pm

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

You know, as ridiculous as it might sound, you mightn't be far wrong - we did indeed feature heavily on sky and it would be entirely in keeping with some of the decision making criteria for the All Stars that the judges having paid their sky subscription or not, might indeed be a factor.

Seriously man - let it go - why don't you just enjoy your success rather than being swallowed up by the bitter memories of the noughties?

Lol-you re so predicatable. But seriously, thats some ego you ve got there. Somebody is obsessed with the noughties but its not me. I presume youre referring to a great Armagh team beating a mediocre Donegal team a few times-so what? You were miles better than us.
All Im saying is if I was from Armagh Id be embaressed by this photo

BonnieSituation · 04-09-2014 7:08pm

And I'm sure you saw Forker at HT heading into the tunnel as well? Absolutely disgraceful antics especially after what had gone before.

Ronie32 · 04-09-2014 7:14pm

McGlynn/O'Se I'll decide after the final but at the minute McGlynn gets the nod.
Connolly/O'Shea, O'Shea was unbelievable in the first kerry game but Connolly been outstanding all year including club championship.
As for ???, few in with a shout, but I'll make a wild call and go with Dessie Mone.

BonnieSituation · 04-09-2014 7:17pm

That is wild. I was away in Canada for the earlier part of the championship so the only game I saw involving Monaghan was the second half of the Ulster Final. I couldn't really say to be honest. I don't think he'll get it mind.

Ronie32 · 04-09-2014 7:21pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

That is wild. I was away in Canada for the earlier part of the championship so the only game I saw involving Monaghan was the second half of the Ulster Final. I couldn't really say to be honest. I don't think he'll get it mind.

There's always at least one from outside the semi finalists, that's my shout!!

Nidgeweasel · 04-09-2014 10:31pm

Neil Gallagher has been outstanding at midfield by the way.

DDC1990 · 04-09-2014 10:50pm

Paul Murphy for Kerry has been outstanding, and should be in the running for YPOTY if they win. Won't win it, as he's not an attacking player, but honestly couldn't have asked for more from this guy.

Shane Walsh/ McHugh is the "sexier" choice.

In terms of All Stars, Aidan O'Mahoney, Murphy, Crowley, Fionn Fitz, Moran, Donnacha Walsh and James O'Donaghue have been All Star worthy in Kerry. If they win, most of those lads should get one (won't get the 3 halfbacks obviously). If they lose, Crowley, Moran and O'Donaghue might be the lot!

Ronie32 · 04-09-2014 10:57pm

DDC1990 wrote: »

Paul Murphy for Kerry has been outstanding, and should be in the running for YPOTY if they win. Won't win it, as he's not an attacking player, but honestly couldn't have asked for more from this guy.

Shane Walsh/ McHugh is the "sexier" choice.

In terms of All Stars, Aidan O'Mahoney, Murphy, Crowley, Fionn Fitz, Moran, Donnacha Walsh and James O'Donaghue have been All Star worthy in Kerry. If they win, most of those lads should get one (won't get the 3 halfbacks obviously). If they lose, Crowley, Moran and O'Donaghue might be the lot!

Agree with you that Donnacha Walsh has had a good year, very consistent player. But, could you really put him ahead of Paul Flynn, Diarmuid Connolly and Ryan McHugh. At the moment I can's see it but if he has a good final (which he is well capable of in a high work rate game against Donegal) that all might change!

TCDStudent1 · 04-09-2014 11:00pm

Shane Walsh is a fantastic prospect. But his performances this year should have him nowhere near an all star.

I'd have Crowley ahead of Boyle at number 6. Crowley has been outstanding for Kerry in some of their matches. I'm not sure Boyle is better at 6 than at 5/7. He is a top player but better on the wing. I suppose you could pick both on the all star team and put one on the wing.

J Cheever Loophole · 04-09-2014 11:35pm

harpsman wrote: »

Somebody is obsessed with the noughties but its not me.

The reason I'm pulling you up about it is that you and I crossed swords on this before - this was what you said way back in early 2012 when Donegal and Armagh hadn't met in anything meaningful in ages.

harpsman wrote: »

Are Armagh the biggest shower of whinging bullies in gaelic football. Remember a few years ago when Kerry gave McGeeney bit of his own medicine they were cryin like babies too.

Now what was that outburst based on, given we weren't playing against each other at that time?!? :rolleyes:

harpsman wrote: »

I presume youre referring to a great Armagh team beating a mediocre Donegal team a few times-so what?

So get over it.

Boom__Boom · 05-09-2014 12:48am

DDC1990 wrote: »

Paul Murphy for Kerry has been outstanding, and should be in the running for YPOTY if they win. Won't win it, as he's not an attacking player, but honestly couldn't have asked for more from this guy

Paul Murphy is overage for the YPOTY

Boom__Boom · 05-09-2014 1:49am

Just thinking about the possibility of Kerry All-Stars and the fact that the Clare game wasn't televised and how things might be slightly different if it was.

The two favourites for All-Stars for Kerry at the moment Moran who started was taken off after twenty minutes - it was blatant that he wasn't even remotely fit and JOD the favourite for POTY didn't even feature as he was injured.

Paul Geaney, Kelly and Murphy all had 3 massive games and O'Brien looked seriously decent as well. When you consider that all 4 were starting their first championship match it was a clear sign of where Kerry were at and it's no surprise that there was a lot of "transition" talk about. Aidan made a big difference in terms of steadying the ship when he replaced Moran. Basically these 5 were the top 5 Kerry performers that day imo - these were the lads who did the heavy lifting in terms of the actual winning of the game imo - 4 lads starting their first championship game and a lad who a fair few were writing him off as too old and past it coming off the bench.

Sheehan had a decent performance but while his 4 points were the 2nd highest score by a player that day, they didnt really feel like match-winning points in terms of the period of the match and circumstances they were scored in. The 3 lads in the half-back category of Fionn, Young and Crowley along with Enright turned in solid performaces but none of them were in the category of being the match-winners. Declan didnt look fit and had a solidish contribution without doing anything special and was a fair bit below what he's capable of at his best especially when you compare his impact in the next Cork game (looking back it's clear that Fitzmaurice and the lads already had half an idea of his role in the Cork game as Declan spent a serious chunk lot of the time playing very deep) All of these 6 were in the category of decent performances but there's no way anyone at the match was thinking that there was a remote possibility of any of these 5 having any sort of a chance of being even nominated for All-Stars.

Maher struggled at midfield before his sending-off and Mikey Geaney looked like a guy who was likely never to don the green-and-gold again. Marc looked in serious bother and while Darran lasted until half-time he was another who wasnt fit. The other subs of BJK, Lyne and Kilkenny did very little in the garbage minutes they picked up and gave no sign of how much they along with Kieran O'Leary would go on to contribute later on in the 2 Mayo games - KOL and BJK in the first game and Lyne and Kilkenny in the 2nd.

D Walsh didnt start and didnt look fit when he did come on - his contributions was way below normal (in a way I think this below-normal-performance by him really showed the impact of just how much what he does in terms of the unglamourous work he does usually contributes is missed and also how difficult it is to replace in the team )and Donaghy looked like he was completely finished in his 5 minute cameo - his touch looked horrific and he fumbled the ball three times under very little pressure when he came on at the end and the game had pretty much petered out.

Just some thoughts on the impact of games being on television and how it relates to the whole area of the All-Stars.

ciarriaithuaidh · 05-09-2014 5:42am

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Just thinking about the possibility of Kerry All-Stars and the fact that the Clare game wasn't televised and how things might be slightly different if it was.

The two favourites for All-Stars for Kerry at the moment Moran who started was taken off after twenty minutes - it was blatant that he wasn't even remotely fit and JOD the favourite for POTY didn't even feature as he was injured.

Paul Geaney, Kelly and Murphy all had 3 massive games and O'Brien looked seriously decent as well. When you consider that all 4 were starting their first championship match it was a clear sign of where Kerry were at and it's no surprise that there was a lot of "transition" talk about. Aidan made a big difference in terms of steadying the ship when he replaced Moran. Basically these 5 were the top 5 Kerry performers that day imo - these were the lads who did the heavy lifting in terms of the actual winning of the game imo - 4 lads starting their first championship game and a lad who a fair few were writing him off as too old and past it coming off the bench.

Sheehan had a decent performance but while his 4 points were the 2nd highest score by a player that day, they didnt really feel like match-winning points in terms of the period of the match and circumstances they were scored in. The 3 lads in the half-back category of Fionn, Young and Crowley along with Enright turned in solid performaces but none of them were in the category of being the match-winners. Declan didnt look fit and had a solidish contribution without doing anything special and was a fair bit below what he's capable of at his best especially when you compare his impact in the next Cork game (looking back it's clear that Fitzmaurice and the lads already had half an idea of his role in the Cork game as Declan spent a serious chunk lot of the time playing very deep) All of these 6 were in the category of decent performances but there's no way anyone at the match was thinking that there was a remote possibility of any of these 5 having any sort of a chance of being even nominated for All-Stars.

Maher struggled at midfield before his sending-off and Mikey Geaney looked like a guy who was likely never to don the green-and-gold again. Marc looked in serious bother and while Darran lasted until half-time he was another who wasnt fit. The other subs of BJK, Lyne and Kilkenny did very little in the garbage minutes they picked up and gave no sign of how much they along with Kieran O'Leary would go on to contribute later on in the 2 Mayo games - KOL and BJK in the first game and Lyne and Kilkenny in the 2nd.

D Walsh didnt start and didnt look fit when he did come on - his contributions was way below normal (in a way I think this below-normal-performance by him really showed the impact of just how much what he does in terms of the unglamourous work he does usually contributes is missed and also how difficult it is to replace in the team )and Donaghy looked like he was completely finished in his 5 minute cameo - his touch looked horrific and he fumbled the ball three times under very little pressure when he came on at the end and the game had pretty much petered out.

Just some thoughts on the impact of games being on television and how it relates to the whole area of the All-Stars.

You may have a general point on TV coverage but Kerry v Clare (or any of the weaker counties in Munster) has rarely been judging ground for All Stars apart from Clare's brief surge in the 90s and Limerick's flirtation with the top level from 2003 to 2005.

DDC1990 · 05-09-2014 7:53am

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Paul Murphy is overage for the YPOTY

Well there you go, I thought it was players 23 and under? Must be u-23?

He's not even being looked at as an All Star.

Football All Stars 2014

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