Expendables 3 leaked three weeks before release. What can be done to counter this?

TheDoc · 05-08-2014 5:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My scum remark really doesn't need any more refinement. People who have gotten used to getting thigns for free and expect them to be so are scum. If you pirate then you are the problem and no matter how you justify it you are scum.

Heavy remark, but you can have your opinion on it. I'm sure your not far of calling me part of organised crime

We're all aware of how Steam works but Steam's monopoly on the market saw them raise prices beyond what anyone was used to paying. PC games traidionally had a lower price point but since Steam grew in popualirty the price of games bought through the service has risen and the sales, which were once one of the services best features are now just a pale imitation of what they once were.

Well thats your opinion and feel, and I'd agree that the pricing platform for new releases has indeed increased. But I don't think is specifically down to steam. As many publishers have indicated in the last two years, they feel it's justified retailing PC games at comparable pricing to console games, albeit still holding a lower retail price. Especially for the A grade titles. Steam don't always directly outline the pricing, they have agreements with large publishers to retail at the price they outline.

Especially with most top tier titles being cross-platform, publishers see more logic in raising the price of PC games, to a certain degree I understand that, I dont like it, but from a business sense I can see why they do it, especialyl considering the PC vesions are typically more powerful.

There already exists a number of services like Steam that cater to film. We have amazon and itunes to name but two and yet people still pirate. You yourslef chose to pirate Locke rather than hold off a week or so and legally watch it through one of the services.

There is always going to be people who do. While I have Netflix and make purchases through other digital distribution, I still pirate, for sure. But I'd probably be swayed when offerings become more ample here and in the European market. I used to Pirate music all the time, I havn't done so in years since the arrival of services like Spotify.

I don't pirate in the sense of "two fingers to the man" like some people do, and I don't do it because I can't afford to pay for things. I mostly pirate because I don't want to wait for things.

It's also worth remembering a lot of people illegal download because they dont want to wait. I actually don't download a lot of movies. Most of my downloading is TV shows. In most cases they havnt been picked up by a channel to be shown here, or are a week or in some cases months behind. Thankfully some of the bigger stuff is aired next day, but as I'm sure anyone who has social media can appreciate, you can be best off wathcing ASAP to avoid spoilers.

There have been numerous examples of big films released in theaters and on VOD on the same day and it's generally been that the VOD viewing figures only make up a small percentage.

What examples? The only examples I've seen have been of mediocre films, that have been slated before release, where people just avoided them anyway from their bad intiial reviews.

I don't recall a genuine "big" film, or a film with a good draw in recent memory where I could VOD on theatrical release.

What you seem to want is for the studios to offer up something like Guardians of the Galaxy for a couple of euro on VOD the same day it opens in cinemas, that or have a streaming service like Netflix which has all new releases. If they were to do so then you'd be paying a hell of a lot of money each month, it simpy isn't a service that could be sold at an affordable price.

I don't see why there can't be a model whereby same day release can be had in a style not so dissimilar from PPV. Using Netflix as the distribution method, or even studios making their own platform, giving consumers a choice.

The actual price is subjective and obviously everyone would have their say. But lets just hypothetically say there was a day one VOD available for €10.

Someone in my situation would probably jump on that. I'm not too keen on the film, it looks ropey. The misses thinks it looks dog rough. Now while we debated this above, for us to go see this would be €20 to ticket exlcuding consumables, but who are we kidding for me it comes to €40. Because this doesn't look to our taste, we are going to give this a miss.

If it was available day one for €10 VOD? Happily purchase to watch it. For some it represents no better value then going to the cinema itself, but in other situations it does. But irregardless it would probably generate more passive purchases.

As I said, no interest in seeing this, nor does she. But if we are sitting there struggling to think of what to watch, could be something we could go for since it's new and we could avail of it straight away. Studio generates incomes from somewhere it never would have come from traditionally.

ps3lover · 05-08-2014 5:17pm

This thread sure got derailed! Can't we just talk about how EX 3 is destined to flop at the box office?

TheDoc · 05-08-2014 5:27pm

ps3lover wrote: »

This thread sure got derailed! Can't we just talk about how EX 3 is destined to flop at the box office?

It most definitely will. Because of piracy? Definitely.

But is it because the film was available for download and everyone has seen it and won't bother? Or because people saw it, and saw it was ****E, and arn't going to dispense with their money to see it in the cinema?

No doubt piracy is the common denominator, but I think it is more because it's garbage.

No doubt there financial impact when a GOOD COPY is available for illegal downloading, but there has been plenty of GOOD films that had copies avaialble before release, that went on to do well.

I think thought this a rarer occurrence then people realise. Outside of award season, it's rare to get a really good copy of a film online. But even as award season shows you, when there is guaranteed DVD quality copies available, if a film is good, it will get its just deserts.

I'd be interested to know the impact on TV moreso then film when it comes to pirating, and what impact it has. There is HD quality copies of TV shows available within 6 hours of a shows first airing, and yet they go from strength to strength.

The last season of GOT smashed all the numbers for illegal downloads per episode, yet its budget is increasing season on season, it's revenue going up, and new seasons being signed up for.

I'm interested to know why this happens for TV, where illegal downloading nearly pushes a TV show higher and higher, yet for movies it can have adverse impacts.

05-08-2014 5:51pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Heavy remark, but you can have your opinion on it. I'm sure your not far of calling me part of organised crime

Well thats your opinion and feel, and I'd agree that the pricing platform for new releases has indeed increased. But I don't think is specifically down to steam. As many publishers have indicated in the last two years, they feel it's justified retailing PC games at comparable pricing to console games, albeit still holding a lower retail price. Especially for the A grade titles. Steam don't always directly outline the pricing, they have agreements with large publishers to retail at the price they outline.

Especially with most top tier titles being cross-platform, publishers see more logic in raising the price of PC games, to a certain degree I understand that, I dont like it, but from a business sense I can see why they do it, especialyl considering the PC vesions are typically more powerful.

There is always going to be people who do. While I have Netflix and make purchases through other digital distribution, I still pirate, for sure. But I'd probably be swayed when offerings become more ample here and in the European market. I used to Pirate music all the time, I havn't done so in years since the arrival of services like Spotify.

I don't pirate in the sense of "two fingers to the man" like some people do, and I don't do it because I can't afford to pay for things. I mostly pirate because I don't want to wait for things.

It's also worth remembering a lot of people illegal download because they dont want to wait. I actually don't download a lot of movies. Most of my downloading is TV shows. In most cases they havnt been picked up by a channel to be shown here, or are a week or in some cases months behind. Thankfully some of the bigger stuff is aired next day, but as I'm sure anyone who has social media can appreciate, you can be best off wathcing ASAP to avoid spoilers.

What examples? The only examples I've seen have been of mediocre films, that have been slated before release, where people just avoided them anyway from their bad intiial reviews.

I don't recall a genuine "big" film, or a film with a good draw in recent memory where I could VOD on theatrical release.

I don't see why there can't be a model whereby same day release can be had in a style not so dissimilar from PPV. Using Netflix as the distribution method, or even studios making their own platform, giving consumers a choice.

The actual price is subjective and obviously everyone would have their say. But lets just hypothetically say there was a day one VOD available for €10.

Someone in my situation would probably jump on that. I'm not too keen on the film, it looks ropey. The misses thinks it looks dog rough. Now while we debated this above, for us to go see this would be €20 to ticket exlcuding consumables, but who are we kidding for me it comes to €40. Because this doesn't look to our taste, we are going to give this a miss.

If it was available day one for €10 VOD? Happily purchase to watch it. For some it represents no better value then going to the cinema itself, but in other situations it does. But irregardless it would probably generate more passive purchases.

As I said, no interest in seeing this, nor does she. But if we are sitting there struggling to think of what to watch, could be something we could go for since it's new and we could avail of it straight away. Studio generates incomes from somewhere it never would have come from traditionally.

But would you happily purchase it for €10 on VOD? You could easily have gotten Locke for a couple of euro through a number of VOD services this month but you chose to steal it. Surely if you were a fan of film and looking for a way to legally support the industy as you imply then you would have looked at a low budget film such as Locke and waited.

In the US most films bar the blockbusters are available through VOD at the same time as cinemas. I got Wolf Creek 2 on amazon the week it came out in cinemas and saw Rob the Mob at the same time as it was released in US cinemas, that's a film which has yet to get a release anywher eover here. Blockbusters and hundred million dollar releases don't get such a release due to the fact that if they did, cinema chains would refuse to show the film.

TheDoc wrote: »

It most definitely will. Because of piracy? Definitely.

But is it because the film was available for download and everyone has seen it and won't bother? Or because people saw it, and saw it was ****E, and arn't going to dispense with their money to see it in the cinema?

No doubt piracy is the common denominator, but I think it is more because it's garbage.

No doubt there financial impact when a GOOD COPY is available for illegal downloading, but there has been plenty of GOOD films that had copies avaialble before release, that went on to do well.

I think thought this a rarer occurrence then people realise. Outside of award season, it's rare to get a really good copy of a film online. But even as award season shows you, when there is guaranteed DVD quality copies available, if a film is good, it will get its just deserts.

I'd be interested to know the impact on TV moreso then film when it comes to pirating, and what impact it has. There is HD quality copies of TV shows available within 6 hours of a shows first airing, and yet they go from strength to strength.

The last season of GOT smashed all the numbers for illegal downloads per episode, yet its budget is increasing season on season, it's revenue going up, and new seasons being signed up for.

I'm interested to know why this happens for TV, where illegal downloading nearly pushes a TV show higher and higher, yet for movies it can have adverse impacts.

You think that had people loved the film that they would have gone see it in the cinema? Somehow I doubt that. You see it happen on here every year, people download the screeners and talk about how much they love them but have no interest of paying to see the film again.

You can't compare piracy of TV shows to films. TV shows are made and sold in a drastically different manner to films, TV traditionally makes it's money in advertising and is the reason why a critically acclaimed show on basic cable can be cancelled if people don't watch. Harry's Law did big numbers a few years back but the viewrship was made up of older people and not the coveted 18-40 or so bracket advetisers crave.

With Game of Thrones you have a show that's on a paid channel and customers pay a premium for access. The show is then sold around the world and I remember reading the sales of the show worldwide was quite a bit more than what it cost to make the show. When you consider that then you can understand why piracy isn't that big a deal for them.

ps3lover · 05-08-2014 6:44pm

I think the bad word of mouth that's coming out from people who have watched the leak will hurt it.
I've seen a few positive reviews for EX 3 but most of them have been terrible.

Potatoeman · 06-08-2014 10:41am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But would you happily purchase it for €10 on VOD? You could easily have gotten Locke for a couple of euro through a number of VOD services this month but you chose to steal it. Surely if you were a fan of film and looking for a way to legally support the industy as you imply then you would have looked at a low budget film such as Locke and waited.

In the US most films bar the blockbusters are available through VOD at the same time as cinemas. I got Wolf Creek 2 on amazon the week it came out in cinemas and saw Rob the Mob at the same time as it was released in US cinemas, that's a film which has yet to get a release anywher eover here. Blockbusters and hundred million dollar releases don't get such a release due to the fact that if they did, cinema chains would refuse to show the film.

You think that had people loved the film that they would have gone see it in the cinema? Somehow I doubt that. You see it happen on here every year, people download the screeners and talk about how much they love them but have no interest of paying to see the film again.

You can't compare piracy of TV shows to films. TV shows are made and sold in a drastically different manner to films, TV traditionally makes it's money in advertising and is the reason why a critically acclaimed show on basic cable can be cancelled if people don't watch. Harry's Law did big numbers a few years back but the viewrship was made up of older people and not the coveted 18-40 or so bracket advetisers crave.

With Game of Thrones you have a show that's on a paid channel and customers pay a premium for access. The show is then sold around the world and I remember reading the sales of the show worldwide was quite a bit more than what it cost to make the show. When you consider that then you can understand why piracy isn't that big a deal for them.

Wouldnt the obvious solution be to create a better model. As the price per hour of movies is pretty expensive.

TV in the last few years has passed out many movies in terms of quality but still are looking for premium prices.

Illegally downloading TV is just as illegal as movies. You can argue as much as you want about the impact it has but its just as illegal.

I think part of the problem now is that its easier and free to get things illegally and any service offered will be expensive as these companies wont offer a single account solution. They are fighting to hold onto their own bussiness model rather than adapting. Wouldnt it be better to make even two euro off something online than nothing?

TheDoc · 06-08-2014 4:28pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

I think part of the problem now is that its easier and free to get things illegally and any service offered will be expensive as these companies wont offer a single account solution. They are fighting to hold onto their own bussiness model rather than adapting. Wouldnt it be better to make even two euro off something online than nothing?

I don't believe that making viable alternatives and solutions would remove piracy. The problem really is there is no accruate data in terms of piracy. It's either inflated or exagerated stuff from the film industry, or purposefully under the mark figures and reasons from piracy groups.

I'm suprised a film studio hasn't had a survey or something actively seeking responses from people who pirate films to gauge what exactly is the purpose of their piracy. While the obvious answer is people wanting stuff for free, there might be large segments with reasons that the film studio can address.

But Darko has made good points in that while the film indsutry is slowly adapting and modernising the way they work and their models, there really isn't a magical remedy or strategy that will simply wipe piracy out of existence. Unfortunately because its become so easy to do, and so widespread, I think it's lost some of the force behind the fact it's an illegal activity. As in people don't take it as serious as maybe it should be.

I could also understand their reluctance to make great strides in terms of providing customers some solutions, that require the studios to make investment, when it might not actually make a difference with people still pirating.

But then I guess that goes back to maybe gathering some accurate data. I don't think it's as clear cut as "want X for free" in terms of piracy anymore. It was once, but I don't think it's as single reasoning anymore, and that there is a host of reasons why people do it.

I do think as a whole there has been a massive misdirection in regards piracy and the actual crime being committed, in that people simply don't accept the illegal task they are performing. I know most people get a good laugh in regards those pre DVD infomercials about " you wouldnt steal a car" or " your directly funding organised crime" and maybe because they are so sensational it simply detracts from the fact there is truth in it.

Not sure how you deal with that either. In all the years I've been on the internet, I've only ever met one person who got any form of legal documentation for illegal downloading. One person. And when he was summoned to court it was struck out.

Obviously the focus has been on trying to strangle at source, but I'd be interested to know the numbers around people who have been successfully prosecuted here in Ireland relating to illegal downloads.

TheDoc · 06-08-2014 4:31pm

ps3lover wrote: »

I think the bad word of mouth that's coming out from people who have watched the leak will hurt it.
I've seen a few positive reviews for EX 3 but most of them have been terrible.

that seems to be the most damning indication alright. Oddly enough there has been a few reviews done from critics who actually downloaded the copy to get out an early review. Not sure if 100% true, but there was some stories doing the rounds of some critics receiving court summons as they seemed to have a review out before any scheduled press screenings. Silly on their part mind you, but I'm not sure if this is actually true.

IvaBigWun · 06-08-2014 8:29pm

Deleted User wrote: »

My scum remark really doesn't need any more refinement. People who have gotten used to getting thigns for free and expect them to be so are scum. If you pirate then you are the problem and no matter how you justify it you are scum.

As usual your views on movie pirating are completely and utterly ridiculously fúcking over the the top. May I remind you that you once told me via PM how to watch different regions of Netflix.

But wont this harm this industry and it's inflated income?!

The horror!

The horror! :eek:

Here's what a scumbag is http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/woman-who-stabbed-18-month-old-girl-3841229

And here http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/father-who-sexually-exploited-daughter-on-video-clip-jailed-30476310.html

And here http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rapist-who-wore-womens-underwear-during-attack-in-public-toilet-loses-appeal-30474871.html

ps3lover · 07-08-2014 11:33am

TheDoc wrote: »

that seems to be the most damning indication alright. Oddly enough there has been a few reviews done from critics who actually downloaded the copy to get out an early review. Not sure if 100% true, but there was some stories doing the rounds of some critics receiving court summons as they seemed to have a review out before any scheduled press screenings. Silly on their part mind you, but I'm not sure if this is actually true.

I haven't heard this. I did hear Lionsgate where forced to drop the review embargo that was supposed to last until the day of release.
The reviews that appeared this week came from the London press screening, not from online downloads.

constitutionus · 07-08-2014 12:14pm

ps3lover wrote: »

I think the bad word of mouth that's coming out from people who have watched the leak will hurt it.
I've seen a few positive reviews for EX 3 but most of them have been terrible.

seen it last night with the brother.

i thought it was alright. not great but not crap either. TBH i always liken em to the fast and the furious films.

ya know what your getting goin in.

so even with the leak i can still see it doing similar business to the last one.

SherlockWatson · 07-08-2014 1:32pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Someone in my situation would probably jump on that. I'm not too keen on the film, it looks ropey. The misses thinks it looks dog rough. Now while we debated this above, for us to go see this would be €20 to ticket exlcuding consumables, but who are we kidding for me it comes to €40. Because this doesn't look to our taste, we are going to give this a miss.

Just on this, off topic I know, but I would definitely recommend GotG if you've liked any of the previous Marvel movies as it is probably the best of them all.

I'd suggest looking at reviews cause its a corker and definitely one to see in the cinema!!

pickarooney · 07-08-2014 2:49pm

I just had a look at amazon VOD as I'd never heard of it before. It's 20 quid to watch a film on there. Nuts. And it doesn't include popcorn!

ancapailldorcha · 07-08-2014 6:54pm

Calling someone scum for pirating a film is just pathetic, end of. Mind you, using people who earn millions per film to appeal to filmgoers not to pirate is a fairly daft thing to do.

Distribution has improved greatly recently. One thing I would like to see more of is legal downloads as opposed to streaming which requires a constant internet connection.

07-08-2014 8:53pm

Potatoeman wrote: »

Wouldnt the obvious solution be to create a better model. As the price per hour of movies is pretty expensive.

TV in the last few years has passed out many movies in terms of quality but still are looking for premium prices.

Illegally downloading TV is just as illegal as movies. You can argue as much as you want about the impact it has but its just as illegal.

I think part of the problem now is that its easier and free to get things illegally and any service offered will be expensive as these companies wont offer a single account solution. They are fighting to hold onto their own bussiness model rather than adapting. Wouldnt it be better to make even two euro off something online than nothing?

When you consider services such as Hulu and the ability to access content from the US providers there's really not much point to pirating TV.

Renting a digital version of most new releases costs only a couple of euro, I think I paid 4 euro for the last on demand release I watched and I saw Cold in July can be rented in HD for $6 later this month. When you consider that pricing then you have to accept that the studios are moving with the times. You wouldn't rent the DVD in Xtravision for that price.

IvaBigWun wrote: »

As usual your views on movie pirating are completely and utterly ridiculously fúcking over the the top. May I remind you that you once told me via PM how to watch different regions of Netflix.

But wont this harm this industry and it's inflated income?!

The horror!

The horror! :eek:

Here's what a scumbag is http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/woman-who-stabbed-18-month-old-girl-3841229

And here http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/father-who-sexually-exploited-daughter-on-video-clip-jailed-30476310.html

And here http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/rapist-who-wore-womens-underwear-during-attack-in-public-toilet-loses-appeal-30474871.html

Let me again remind you that changing your Netflix region is not illegal. If Netflix wanted to they could put a stop to it pretty easily. And why or how could it hurt the industry? Netflix are still paying the rights holders and you're still paying Netflix. It's kinda like the whole thing with HBO Go and how people share passwords. When it was mentioned to him the CEO of HBO said that it was a "terrific marketing vehicle".

I never understood why it is that people seem to think that stealing something like a film is perfectly okay but if someone was to steal your car or wallet then they are scum. And yes I'm aware that they aren't the same but stealing is stealing, no matter how you try and justify it.

pickarooney wrote: »

I just had a look at amazon VOD as I'd never heard of it before. It's 20 quid to watch a film on there. Nuts. And it doesn't include popcorn!

Were you looking at the price to buy or rent? The US amazon has some great deals, most new releases are between $4-6 to rent for a 48 hour period.

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Calling someone scum for pirating a film is just pathetic, end of. Mind you, using people who earn millions per film to appeal to filmgoers not to pirate is a fairly daft thing to do.

Distribution has improved greatly recently. One thing I would like to see more of is legal downloads as opposed to streaming which requires a constant internet connection.

And what are those people then? Theft is theft, no matter how you try to dress it up.

ancapailldorcha · 07-08-2014 11:49pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And what are those people then? Theft is theft, no matter how you try to dress it up.

It's not as simple as that. I'd call it copyright infringement. It's different to the traditional model of theft as the pirate is duplicating as opposed to taking the item in question, in this case a copy of a film/game/whatever. If the pirate has a Netflix account and downloads Star Trek: Into Darkness, for example to watch on a train journey, is it still stealing in your eyes? An illegal download doesn't necessarily equal a lost sale. If someone can't afford a cinema ticket and bus fare but a friend offers them a pirate version then that wouldn't constitute a lost sale in my eyes.

I certainly agree that it is unethical at the very least but hyperbolic insults aren't going to solve anything. I don't think that the services are quite as good as you think either. Amazon UK do seem to be doing legal downloads now which is a big step forwards.

08-08-2014 12:05am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's not as simple as that. I'd call it copyright infringement. It's different to the traditional model of theft as the pirate is duplicating as opposed to taking the item in question, in this case a copy of a film/game/whatever. If the pirate has a Netflix account and downloads Star Trek: Into Darkness, for example to watch on a train journey, is it still stealing in your eyes? An illegal download doesn't necessarily equal a lost sale. If someone can't afford a cinema ticket and bus fare but a friend offers them a pirate version then that wouldn't constitute a lost sale in my eyes.

I certainly agree that it is unethical at the very least but hyperbolic insults aren't going to solve anything. I don't think that the services are quite as good as you think either. Amazon UK do seem to be doing legal downloads now which is a big step forwards.

If you have a Netflix account and download a film that's on there then it's still stealing. There is no two ways about it. You can dress it up any way you want but someone downloading a film and watching it is theft, granted as there is no psychical entity it's not seen as being the same as walking into a shop and walking out with a DVD copy under your jumper but in essence it is the same. If someone can't afford tre price of a cinema ticket and bus fare then that's no excuse to steal, surely they could hold off, save their money and pay for a legal rental of a film when it appears on any of the streaming sites.

The services we have access to is fantastic. That we can use the US amazon video, itunes and other VOD services means that there is no excuse to not support film. You can rent a HD version of pretty much every film being released for less than a fiver and buy it for not a lot more. I just bought a HD copy of Septic Man for $10 on amazon.com. If it was to play in cinemas here you'd be looking at 6-8 euro for a ticket which makes the VOD version a bargain considering that I own it and can watch it as many times as I want.

ancapailldorcha · 08-08-2014 12:11am

Deleted User wrote: »

If you have a Netflix account and download a film that's on there then it's still stealing. There is no two ways about it. You can dress it up any way you want but someone downloading a film and watching it is theft, granted as there is no psychical entity it's not seen as being the same as walking into a shop and walking out with a DVD copy under your jumper but in essence it is the same. If someone can't afford tre price of a cinema ticket and bus fare then that's no excuse to steal, surely they could hold off, save their money and pay for a legal rental of a film when it appears on any of the streaming sites.

The services we have access to is fantastic. That we can use the US amazon video, itunes and other VOD services means that there is no excuse to not support film. You can rent a HD version of pretty much every film being released for less than a fiver and buy it for not a lot more. I just bought a HD copy of Septic Man for $10 on amazon.com. If it was to play in cinemas here you'd be looking at 6-8 euro for a ticket which makes the VOD version a bargain considering that I own it and can watch it as many times as I want.

I'm not trying to dress anything up, I'm just saying that it doesn't quite fit the traditional idea of stealing. Obviously, you disagree and that's fair enough. I can't remember pirating a game and with my Cineworld card I don't need to do the same for new films. The key is providing better service which content providers are doing. It just took them ages. I do hate the regional catalogue differences.

pickarooney · 08-08-2014 9:51am

Deleted User wrote: »

Were you looking at the price to buy or rent? The US amazon has some great deals, most new releases are between $4-6 to rent for a 48 hour period.

It says Purchase but I'm not sure what the difference is; there's no other option on the couple of new releases I looked at.

It's fairly moot for me as Amazon VOD, just like Hulu, Netflix etc. is simply not available in France.

SherlockWatson · 08-08-2014 9:56am

Its not even stealing, you aren't physically taking someone's property so comparing it to stealing a car or a wallet is pretty silly to be honest.

Theta · 08-08-2014 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

Let me again remind you that changing your Netflix region is not illegal. If Netflix wanted to they could put a stop to it pretty easily. And why or how could it hurt the industry? Netflix are still paying the rights holders and you're still paying Netflix. It's kinda like the whole thing with HBO Go and how people share passwords. When it was mentioned to him the CEO of HBO said that it was a "terrific marketing vehicle".

Netflix dont own the rights to licence the content in the region you are in. Either somebody else does which by your mentality you are stealing from them or no one does at the moment but they are up for sale and you are stealing from them.

08-08-2014 12:26pm

Theta wrote: »

Netflix dont own the rights to licence the content in the region you are in. Either somebody else does which by your mentality you are stealing from them or no one does at the moment but they are up for sale and you are stealing from them.

We're aware of that but paying for Netflix and then circumventing regional restrictions is far better than simply downloading a torrent of a film. It's not illegal and is something that Netflix appear okay with given that they could easily put a stop to it if they wanted.

SherlockWatson · 08-08-2014 12:36pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We're aware of that but paying for Netflix and then circumventing regional restrictions is far better than simply downloading a torrent of a film. It's not illegal and is something that Netflix appear okay with given that they could easily put a stop to it if they wanted.

Of course Netflix are okay with it, you aren't taking anything from them, your taking the money out of the pocket of the people who licence it.

You're actually screwing over the people that get screwed over when you download a torrented movie.

Theta · 08-08-2014 12:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

We're aware of that but paying for Netflix and then circumventing regional restrictions is far better than simply downloading a torrent of a film. It's not illegal and is something that Netflix appear okay with given that they could easily put a stop to it if they wanted.

It is one and the same, you are accessing content you are legally not allowed to view in your region because the owner has not given permission to do so just like the owner of torrented files has not given permission for that content to be shared. The regional content block is their method of putting a stop to it and can be circumvented like any DRM such as DVD regioning or watermarking.

I couldn't give a toss if you torrent it or use geo services to get around netflix's geo block, i am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of your argument.

shruikan2553 · 08-08-2014 2:15pm

Good films still somehow do well and poor films can blame everyone pirating for bad sales figures.

Before I found how to get access to the Canadian Netflix I streamed the wolverine. A week later I got onto the Canadian Netflix.
It wasn't a lost sale or anything. Netflix had it and all I needed to do was make Netflix think I was in Canada. Me and my girlfriend share a Netflix account and its OK, I copy it for her and its wrong.

Agent Coulson · 08-08-2014 3:01pm

The studio had previously been given a restraining order against torrent sites that provided access to a leaked version of the Sylvester Stallone movie.

They will now ask companies including Google and GoDaddy to find the sharers' identities.

The subpoenas will be sent to "the third parties whom Lionsgate has identified as likely to be providing services to the defendants who operate" websites including billionuploads.com, hulkfile.eu and dotsemper.com.

Third parties include CloudFlare, Incapsula, Google, GoDaddy and Domains by Proxy LLC.

The film was leaked in full two weeks before its release on August 15.

"Through these subpoenas, Lionsgate may demand the production of electronically stored information and other documents and information that is reasonably calculated to the discovery of Defendants' identities and locations," the order reads.

"This includes but is not limited to billing records, website content, server logs and correspondence with any one or more of the defendants."

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a589126/expendables-3-piracy-suit-google-godaddy-to-be-subpoenaed.html?rss#~oMmkoI0R22NAhC

krudler · 08-08-2014 5:30pm

Theta wrote: »

It is one and the same, you are accessing content you are legally not allowed to view in your region because the owner has not given permission to do so just like the owner of torrented files has not given permission for that content to be shared. The regional content block is their method of putting a stop to it and can be circumvented like any DRM such as DVD regioning or watermarking.

I couldn't give a toss if you torrent it or use geo services to get around netflix's geo block, i am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of your argument.

Good point, getting around region blocks on netflix is basically the same as downloading a movie that has a staggered release from the US to here. Piracy is a big grey area anyway. Is listening to a song on youtube piracy? I use spotify and there's some tracks I cant get on it, so I'd just youtube the song. I dont pay for youtube and plenty of music labels have their own official channels and upload music to it. So why is one piracy and not the other? Just cos money is involved?

08-08-2014 6:19pm

SherlockWatson wrote: »

Of course Netflix are okay with it, you aren't taking anything from them, your taking the money out of the pocket of the people who licence it.

You're actually screwing over the people that get screwed over when you download a torrented movie.

Theta wrote: »

It is one and the same, you are accessing content you are legally not allowed to view in your region because the owner has not given permission to do so just like the owner of torrented files has not given permission for that content to be shared. The regional content block is their method of putting a stop to it and can be circumvented like any DRM such as DVD regioning or watermarking.

I couldn't give a toss if you torrent it or use geo services to get around netflix's geo block, i am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of your argument.

If you consider bypassing geographical restriction to be the same as pirating then by that logic the package of 4 Blu-Rays I received today from Japan is the same as me downloading the film as technically my purchase means that the licensee here loses out.

Bypassing the regional restrictions is not the same as pirating a film, when you access Hulu or the other regions of Netflix the copyright holder is still getting payed.

constitutionus · 08-08-2014 6:49pm

krudler wrote: »

Good point, getting around region blocks on netflix is basically the same as downloading a movie that has a staggered release from the US to here. Piracy is a big grey area anyway. Is listening to a song on youtube piracy? I use spotify and there's some tracks I cant get on it, so I'd just youtube the song. I dont pay for youtube and plenty of music labels have their own official channels and upload music to it. So why is one piracy and not the other? Just cos money is involved?

im pretty sure ya can say youtubing songs is piracy. those companys have just given up the ghost and decided joining is better than prosecuting.

i do it myself all the time. as ya said theres stuff uploaded all the time that just isnt available anywhere else.

literally.

08-08-2014 6:52pm

constitutionus wrote: »

im pretty sure ya can say youtubing songs is piracy. those companys have just given up the ghost and decided joining is better than prosecuting.

i do it myself all the time. as ya said theres stuff uploaded all the time that just isnt available anywhere else.

literally.

The great thing about music is that there's little need for anyone to pirate it. When you look at something such as Spotify and what it offers you can't but love it. I've been paying for Spotify for the last few years and find myself using little else to listen to music on the go, I don't think I've used itunes on my ipod in years.

There was an idea floated about a few years back in the UK that seemed like the ideal solution to piracy. The idea was that ISP would charge customers an additional £100-150 a year and that would then be divided amongst copy right holders and users would be able to download what they want free from fear of prosecution.

Expendables 3 leaked three weeks before release. What can be done to counter this?

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