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Why are Sinn Fein "bad"?

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  • 29-04-2014 6:58pm
    #1
    turnikett1
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭


    I am not for or against Sinn Fein to be honest. I don't have any idea where I stand politically at the moment because I'm just so disillusioned with all political parties and movements at present. I am left wing at heart but my run ins with left wing parties in Ireland have been pretty bad. After having been in Europe it's not much better to be honest.

    But regardless, I am curious as to why people give Sinn Fein a lot of grief. I mainly see it on boards but I have seen it in other places and real life too. If you think FF/FG/Labour are preferrable please tell why


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    #2
    srsly78
    Registered Users Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭srsly78


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

    edit: specifically -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_(Marxism) Think North Korea or Cambodia in the past.


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    #3
    turnikett1
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭turnikett1


    srsly78 wrote: »
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

    edit: specifically -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_(Marxism) Think North Korea or Cambodia in the past.

    Sinn Fein have nothing to do with Marxism in the slightest.


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    #4
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    My main beef with them is that they are the party of "No".

    Despite a 10-15 billion annual deficit in the the government coffers, SF said no to every spending cut, however modest & every tax increase since 2008.

    Their solution to government debt was to inflate the economy through yet more debt.

    They seem to dislike wealth creators, enterprise & any household with the audacity to earn over 100k gross per year.

    Lazy populism with no bandwagon not jumped upon.

    Plus, their leadership being former IRA members/commanders doesn't help.


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I hate Sinn Fein. I'm not that clued into politics, compared to the average poster here, but my reason for disliking them is fairly simple.

    There was a voting yokey on there a while back (can't think of the word.. it's gone out of my head). Anyway, they wanted to vote no to it, fair enough.

    But their posters were blatantly misleading lies, clearly trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. 'NO To the Household Charge' was their big one, that I seen everywhere. I can't remember the exact ins and outs, but i do strongly recall that a no vote would have nothing to do with the household charge and even though I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, even I realise that the country is broke and scrapping the household charge would either 1) not happen in the first place, or 2) if it did, be immediately replaced with a similar tax.

    I found the attitude and manipulative nature of their posters for that to be in extremely poor taste, and since have had nothing but a strong negative view.


    I'm sure other posters here have much more valid and logical reasons for not liking them, but that's my one. (as an aside, much as I may be kicked to death for saying it, I actually kinda like Enda, and think he's made the best of a bad situation in many ways. No matter who went in was gonna tax the life out of us).


    EDIT: Referendum!!!


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    #6
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    Sinn Fein's Martin Ferris: he has spent a number of years in jail for gun running for the provisional IRA.

    Bad enough for you?
    That is fairly dodgey is it not?

    I voted for him btw (anything is better than letting in FF's Tom Mac)


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    #7
    turnikett1
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭turnikett1


    So they're a petty populist party with no real aims? Sounds about right, definitely validates the dislike garnered towards them. To be honest when I think about I don't recall or see any of Sinn Fein's policies and projects apart from uniting Ireland and just saying No


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    #8
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,524 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Odd. The OP is politically experienced enough to be disillusioned with all political parties and movements and have had several run ins with left wing parties. Yet at the same time is completely uninformed on why SF is transfer toxic. Surely OP you'd have picked up enough to have a the general gist of why SF is not taken as a serious option by the majority of voters in the same way FG/Labour or even FF are?


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    #9
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    turnikett1 wrote: »
    So they're a petty populist party with no real aims? Sounds about right, definitely validates the dislike garnered towards them. To be honest when I think about I don't recall or see any of Sinn Fein's policies and projects apart from uniting Ireland and just saying No

    I'm probably older than some of the other posters, but for me it's the fact that they seem to have no grasp of any sort of economic reality, and their links with the IRA from the times of the troubles


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    #10
    turnikett1
    Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭turnikett1


    Sand wrote: »
    Odd. The OP is politically experienced enough to be disillusioned with all political parties and movements and have had several run ins with left wing parties. Yet at the same time is completely uninformed on why SF is transfer toxic. Surely OP you'd have picked up enough to have a the general gist of why SF is not taken as a serious option by the majority of voters in the same way FG/Labour or even FF are?

    Honestly no. I haven't followed Irish politics in quite some time until recently and when I did I never ever tuned into what SF had to say because I assumed it was just rubbish. But, I remember hearing that support for SF is growing so this sparked my curiousity. I've always just known SF as the political wing of the PIRA but never bothered to see what they had to offer the Republic.

    Like I said earlier, apart from their republicanism and general "No" to everything I haven't ever heard them proposing socio-economic ideas and alternatives for the Republic.


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    #11
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    turnikett1 wrote: »
    Honestly no. I haven't followed Irish politics in quite some time until recently and when I did I never ever tuned into what SF had to say because I assumed it was just rubbish. But, I remember hearing that support for SF is growing so this sparked my curiousity. I've always just known SF as the political wing of the PIRA but never bothered to see what they had to offer the Republic.

    Like I said earlier, apart from their republicanism and general "No" to everything I haven't ever heard them proposing socio-economic ideas and alternatives for the Republic.

    when did you last follow irish politics? assuming you are not a couple of hundred years old, the further you go back the dodgier Sinn Fein appear. they have only recently been given access to controling national budgets and creating positions national policy in northern Ireland.


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    #12
    carpejugulum
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭carpejugulum


    Populists with zero ideas how to create wealth. They only want to redistribute and reduce wealth and are proud of it.


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    #13
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    They would drive the multinationals out of Ireland and because so much of the workforce is dependent on them factories they would have serious aversion to Sinn Féin.


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    #14
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,503 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    sheesh wrote: »
    Sinn Fein's Martin Ferris: he has spent a number of years in jail for gun running for the provisional IRA.

    Bad enough for you?
    That is fairly dodgey is it not?

    I voted for him btw (anything is better than letting in FF's Tom Mac)

    Also collected Pierce McAulay and Kevin Walsh (the killers of Garda Jerry McCabe) from Castlerea when they were released in 2009

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/politics/sf-defends-ferris-as-freed-mccabe-killers-elude-media-98117.html
    Mr Ferris’s Dáil colleague Arthur Morgan said Sinn Féin had supported the decision to greet Det McCabe’s killers.

    Know me by the company I keep and all that.....


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    #15
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    turnikett1 wrote: »

    But regardless, I am curious as to why people give Sinn Fein a lot of grief. I mainly see it on boards but I have seen it in other places and real life too.

    • They are very left wing, which I suppose will put off most right wing, and even centrist folk.
    • A significant number of their policies (in opposition to those pursued by the government) seem somewhat divorced from reality. Perhaps a consequence of being in perpetual opposition.
    • They disowned this country for decades and considered the Dail an illegitimate body. The most recent incarnation of SF was the result of a split among members who wanted to take their seats if elected. They still see the creation of a new country of north and south as their single most important objective.
    • SF is the only United Kingdom party here. Many of its most senior members are from Northern Ireland and had an active role in some of the less salubrious events during the Troubles.
    • They have ambiguous views on extremist Irish republicanism, past and present.

    I think that's mostly it...


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    #16
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    turnikett1 wrote: »
    So they're a petty populist party with no real aims? Sounds about right, definitely validates the dislike garnered towards them. To be honest when I think about I don't recall or see any of Sinn Fein's policies and projects apart from uniting Ireland and just saying No

    Probably something they picked up during their time in government with the DUP.:pac:


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    #17
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    • They are very left wing, which I suppose will put off most right wing, and even centrist folk.
    FF, FG and Lab are all centre/right and I don't think there's many want to vote for them next time out!


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    #18
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    carpejugulum wrote: »
    Populists with zero ideas how to create wealth. They only want to redistribute and reduce wealth and are proud of it.
    I'm not saying their policies wouldn't cripple the economy (though I find it hard to believe the could do worse than the last two governments) but can you show me where exactly they proclaim the want to reduce the wealth of Ireland?
    And what makes you think "redistribute" is an insult?


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    #19
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    FF, FG and Lab are all centre/right and I don't think there's many want to vote for them next time out!

    Hmm... indeed. I don't see myself voting for any of those. Don't see myself voting for SF either, of course.

    Probably means I just won't be voting!


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    #20
    deandean
    Registered Users Posts: 2,229 ✭✭✭deandean


    a few years back, Sinn Fein decided a woman running for election was a threat to their candidate. they had a campaign against her. they defaced and tore down her posters. they smashed her car.
    I don't see how SF could.possibly be seen as fit to take office.


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    #21
    donalh087
    Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭donalh087


    It's the cold eyes when he says 'death, certainly.' Thats why I hate them.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch5u8YbOyIE


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    #22
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    deandean wrote: »
    a few years back, Sinn Fein decided a woman running for election was a threat to their candidate. they had a campaign against her. they defaced and tore down her posters. they smashed her car.
    I don't see how SF could.possibly be seen as fit to take office.
    Any party who tears down election posters is 100% getting my vote! Hate the things... :-)


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    #23
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    deandean wrote: »
    a few years back, Sinn Fein decided a woman running for election was a threat to their candidate. they had a campaign against her. they defaced and tore down her posters. they smashed her car.
    I don't see how SF could.possibly be seen as fit to take office.


    You've a source for that?


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    #24
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    comongethappy wrote: »
    They seem to dislike wealth creators, enterprise & any household with the audacity to earn over 100k gross per year.

    ^^
    This, for me is the main reason I would never vote for them. I despair for a society that doesn't have any concept of allowing people to reap a reward from working hard to better their position.


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    #25
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    There past association being the political wing of the IRA doesn't bother me. Collins killed people, Dev killed people and connolly did as well.
    What I don't like about Sinn Fein is that they take the populist line all the time. Likewise their economic policies don't make much sense. I can't understand them. Thats why I don't vote for them.
    Same reason why I don't vote for any socialist parties. They're economic policies don't make sense to me. Its as if there's a great big money tree somewhere, still waiting to be found.
    Fg and FF economic policies make some reasonable sense for me and as a result Id be more inclined to vote for them. Don't get me wrong, I hate FF's current populist stance (anti property tax even though they started it, anti water tax even though they started it etc) so Im left with FG.
    Who I hate for the Conservative stance on issues such as Gay marriage and abortion. However from an economics point of view are most in line with right wing economic thinking.

    What Id love to see is either a party with many libertarian views. Left when it comes to freedom of the individual (end the war on drugs as it doesn't work, pro gay marriage, pro abortion) and at the same time on the right when it comes to economic policy. Unfortunately in the country of parish pump politics I can't see that happening any time soon.
    Also, a party like libertarian movement in the US is too radical for most of the public to accept, mainly through fear of upsetting the status quo. You usually hear the line of who'll build the roads if there is no government, Id argue who built the roads when there was no government.


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    #26
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    quadrifoglio verde wrote: »
    What I don't like about Sinn Fein is that they take the populist line all the time. Likewise their economic policies don't make much sense. I can't understand them.
    They don't make sense because they know they'll never have to live up to the election promises they make. Which is not to say that all their populist policies are bad - some are not - but the majority are irresponsible, naked populism.

    Oh yes, and I'm old enough to remember when SF were the political wing of the kind of people who did this to their fellow human beings in the name of my country:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporals_killings

    It'll be a chill winter in hell before I give any shinner my vote.


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    #27
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    I'm sorry, you guys think FF and FG economic policies make sense? :eek:


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    #28
    quadrifoglio verde
    Registered Users Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭quadrifoglio verde


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I'm sorry, you guys think FF and FG economic policies make sense? :eek:

    They make more sense for me than the alternative.


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    #29
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    The more popular SF have become in the south, the more grief they get. It was the same in the north, they were vilified and labelled this, that & the other when they were muscling in on the popular vote. Their past is no worse than other party in the state, people just like to get up on their high horse when polling day comes round.


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    #30
    Red Kev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Red Kev


    My biggest issue with SF, and the reason that I won't vote for them is that they oppose cuts in the Republic of Ireland but implement the exact same cuts in Northern Ireland where they are in power. Utter populists, something I despise in politics, be it on the left or right.


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    #31
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    Their past is no worse than other party in the state

    If you can back that up with stats pertaining to murders and/or acts of terror committed by the Labour party, Socialist party or Green Party I'm sure we would love to read it!


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