Double standards at MTV awards

boogle · 15-04-2014 2:19pm #1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycYYm7n4Y4E

Anyone else find all this a bit irritating?
Firstly, if a man walked over to a female actor and exposed parts of her body like that, there would be absolute hell to pay. So why is it ok for Rita to do that? I guess he didn't look too annoyed about it and took his shirt off completely, but how was he supposed to react?

That leads me to the second thing that I find annoying. The fact that there was a "Best Shirtless Performance" award being given out. Clearly this is just a male award. Imagine an award for "Best Cleavage Performance" for the girls. The whole thing is just sexist, and when I hear all the screams from the audience, it pisses me off. Imagine a crowd of guys hooting and baying at a female on the stage like that, it would be condemned.

Obviously Zac Efron is ok with this because he turned up to accept his award, and went along with the fun and games. Is this because men haven't traditionally had to fight against being objectified in films and the media in the same way women have?

baby and crumble · 15-04-2014 2:23pm

In fairness, male chests are not sexualised like women's are.

I agree that if man ripped off a womans shirt there's be uproar but it isn't comparing like for like.

And it was not a male only award. Jennifer Aniston was also nominated.

boogle · 15-04-2014 2:27pm

Ok, didn't realise the category was for both male and female. So fair enough I suppose??

Saying it's not comparing like for like doesn't stand up for me though. Listen to the screaming there. If that's not sexual, I don't know what is!

baby and crumble · 15-04-2014 2:32pm

I'm not saying she was right to do it. At all. I think it's tacky and sets a bad precedent that girls taking off men's clothes without permission is ok. Obviously it isn't.

But I stand by my comment that men's chests aren't sexualised in the same way. Women may find them sexy, but if a male strips to his bare chest in public he is not breaking any laws. I would be. Surely that alone is proof that male and female chests are viewed differently? Apparently my nipples are obscene, yours aren't.

Pawwed Rig · 15-04-2014 2:36pm

We are dealing with a channel that screens such shows as 'My Super Sweet 16'. 'From G's to Gents', 'Jersey Shore', 'Pimp my Ride' & 'Cribs'. High brow it ain't. You are really dealing with the lowest common denominator here. It is sexist, brash, tacky, irrelevant. It has all the isms except racism (unless you are a rapper) and homophobia (unless you are a rapper).

People like Zac Efron have nothing else to them other than this type of hero worship. He is someone needs to whore himself out in this manner whereas someone with talent or brains would make a better life for themselves.

This is the rock bottom of 'entertainment' and should be ignored by all right thinking people. Change will trickle down to these type of shows but it is easier to make the changes at a higher level.

boogle · 15-04-2014 2:36pm

baby and crumble wrote: »

I'm not saying she was right to do it. At all. I think it's tacky and sets a bad precedent that girls taking off men's clothes without permission is ok. Obviously it isn't.

Well I completely agree with you there and that's my major gripe with the whole thing. I'm suprised that there has been no commentary on her actions at all.

baby and crumble · 15-04-2014 2:38pm

boogle wrote: »

Well I completely agree with you there and that's my major gripe with the whole thing. I'm suprised that there has been no commentary on her actions at all.

It's because that no one thinks women can assault a man. In that, I agree with your proposed double standard in the thread title.

But there is a lot more to it than simple chest baring.

John Cherry · 15-04-2014 2:46pm

Rita Ora can tear off my shirt anytime and the last thing I would be thinking is double standards.

Fine looking woman she is

um7y1h83ge06nx · 15-04-2014 2:54pm

Ah double standards, how I hate you.

As has been said a lot of this forum, it's often not the act that we see as offensive more the fact if the sexes were reversed society would have a very different opinion.

Then as Pawwed Rig has said MTV caters to the rock bottom of entertainment. Still even though we here can see through this, teenagers of both sexes may still be influenced by it.

Standman · 15-04-2014 3:25pm

It was probably planned anyway, his shirt was conveniently tear-off-able. The thing that annoys me about the MTV awards is the MTV awards, which is why I don't watch it.

boogle · 15-04-2014 4:49pm

Standman wrote: »

The thing that annoys me about the MTV awards is the MTV awards, which is why I don't watch it.

Ha! So you're saying that we're missing the greater evil in all of this; The MTV Awards themselves. Good point.

catallus · 15-04-2014 8:17pm

We should be celebrating double standards rather than having the same tired knee-jerk reactions to this kind of thing; it is proof-positive that there are differences between men and women.

sailornaruto39 · 17-04-2014 8:15am

catallus wrote: »

We should be celebrating double standards rather than having the same tired knee-jerk reactions to this kind of thing; it is proof-positive that there are differences between men and women.

That makes no sense, we all no that men and women are different and that's ok, double standards are not

Dravokivich · 17-04-2014 1:15pm

I don't find it irritating. MTV is targeting the same audience as teen magazines. Their shows are always going to be presented with some flavour of sexuality as that's a big part of developing as a teenager. It's what most of us wanted to express, experience and enjoy. After a quick glance over the video, it seemed to be done as a bit of fun. Looking at it any other way is just putting more thought into the clip than was intended and misses the point.

It's only a problem if you look to make one of it as far as I'm concerned.

sailornaruto39 · 17-04-2014 1:54pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I don't find it irritating. MTV is targeting the same audience as teen magazines. Their shows are always going to be presented with some flavour of sexuality as that's a big part of developing as a teenager. It's what most of us wanted to express, experience and enjoy. After a quick glance over the video, it seemed to be done as a bit of fun. Looking at it any other way is just putting more thought into the clip than was intended and misses the point.

It's only a problem if you look to make one of it as far as I'm concerned.

Everybody should be allowed to enjoy sexual urges, but not at the expense of consent. "a bit off fun" doesn't excuse that act, does consent mean nothing to you?

This specific instance may not be too serious, but it's indicative of an annoying double standard that is gaining power. Everytime a man is sexually wronged by a woman(in small ways) she usually gets away with it. Guys are usually expected to just shut up "because they like it"

Dravokivich · 17-04-2014 3:39pm

sailornaruto39 wrote: »

Everybody should be allowed to enjoy sexual urges, but not at the expense of consent. "a bit off fun" doesn't excuse that act, does consent mean nothing to you?

This specific instance may not be too serious, but it's indicative of an annoying double standard that is gaining power. Everytime a man is sexually wronged by a woman(in small ways) she usually gets away with it. Guys are usually expected to just shut up "because they like it"

Consent is very important, but what has that got to do with this topic? No one appeared to be harassed in any way or made to do something they didn't want to part take in.

Standman · 17-04-2014 3:50pm

sailornaruto39 wrote: »

Everybody should be allowed to enjoy sexual urges, but not at the expense of consent. "a bit off fun" doesn't excuse that act, does consent mean nothing to you?

This specific instance may not be too serious, but it's indicative of an annoying double standard that is gaining power. Everytime a man is sexually wronged by a woman(in small ways) she usually gets away with it. Guys are usually expected to just shut up "because they like it"

Just because some people over react about some things, doesn't mean we must over react also in some kind of attempt to balance out the "double standard".

sailornaruto39 · 17-04-2014 4:10pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Consent is very important, but what has that got to do with this topic? No one appeared to be harassed in any way or made to do something they didn't want to part take in.

Well if you believe it's important how could you not see the harassment? His shirt was ripped off from him without his consent no?

Standman wrote: »

Just because some people over react about some things, doesn't mean we must over react also in some kind of attempt to balance out the "double standard".

Well that's not what I'm doing, I think my reaction is proper, it's you who's under-reacting.

I'm not trying to balance out anything. I just don't approve of double standards, or ripping people's clothes off without their permission. No matter what any of you say there is a double standard and ripping off someone's clothes like that isn't cool.

Dravokivich · 17-04-2014 4:26pm

sailornaruto39 wrote: »

Well if you believe it's important how could you not see the harassment? His shirt was ripped off from him without his consent no?

If he had a problem with being objectified in such a way, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't show up to the event. It also seemed likely to be a stunt.

I still don't see the issue. People are putting more thought into it, than there is.

Standman · 17-04-2014 5:13pm

sailornaruto39 wrote: »

Well if you believe it's important how could you not see the harassment? His shirt was ripped off from him without his consent no?

Well that's not what I'm doing, I think my reaction is proper, it's you who's under-reacting.

I'm not trying to balance out anything. I just don't approve of double standards, or ripping people's clothes off without their permission. No matter what any of you say there is a double standard and ripping off someone's clothes like that isn't cool.

In fairness he is the only one who can say whether or not it was cool.

We don't know what was arranged beforehand or what the mood was or any kind of rapport between him and the woman who took his shirt off.

Contrary to what some people seem to believe, most of us don't need to go through some kind of explicit verbal contract before any kind of physical interaction takes place.

sailornaruto39 · 17-04-2014 6:23pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

If he had a problem with being objectified in such a way, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't show up to the event. It also seemed likely to be a stunt.

I still don't see the issue. People are putting more thought into it, than there is.

The objectification is not so much the problem but rather the non consetual act of ripping his clothes off. I'm also speaking assuming it isn't a set up, even though it probably is.

It's bringing out some ugly colors is all. Ppl aren't putting too much though, you just aren't putting enough into it, you think if the tables were turned there wouldn't be more controversy?

sailornaruto39 · 17-04-2014 6:27pm

Standman wrote: »

In fairness he is the only one who can say whether or not it was cool.

We don't know what was arranged beforehand or what the mood was or any kind of rapport between him and the woman who took his shirt off.

Contrary to what some people seem to believe, most of us don't need to go through some kind of explicit verbal contract before any kind of physical interaction takes place.

That's fair, they could be friends, but I'm assuming they aren't and that it wasn't staged.

Did you not see him awkwardly resist at first?

Of these physical interactions you speak of does ripping someone's shirt count? Who does that?

Do you not agree that it's a double standard? Would you give this same indifference with switched genders?

sailornaruto39 · 17-04-2014 6:28pm

Standman wrote: »

In fairness he is the only one who can say whether or not it was cool.

We don't know what was arranged beforehand or what the mood was or any kind of rapport between him and the woman who took his shirt off.

Contrary to what some people seem to believe, most of us don't need to go through some kind of explicit verbal contract before any kind of physical interaction takes place.

That's fair, they could be friends, but I'm assuming they aren't and that it wasn't staged.

Did you not see him awkwardly resist at first?

Of these physical interactions you speak of does ripping someone's shirt count? Who does that?

believe me I'm kinda glad she did it and I know it was all in good fun and that he doesn't have much of a problem with it (though he kinda did). This just reveals an ugly hipocrsy that women have sometimes

Do you not agree that it's a double standard? Would you give this same indifference with switched genders?

Wompa1 · 17-04-2014 7:01pm

I had an interesting experience recently. I went to a John Legend concert.

A few songs in it became pretty obvious that the women there weren't really there for the music per se. He's a great musician and all but I was surrounded by women talking about how hot and sexy he was. Women screaming "I love you John" and all the women screaming at the top of their lungs any time there was a moment without him singing...if he had a pause before hitting a high note or was just playing the piano and not singing they would scream. It really ruined the concert.

He would prompt for us to sing certain parts and it was amazing. I've never witnessed a crowd going from almost everybody screaming to being barely audible. When they were singing it was very quiet. Like most didn't know the song and those who did didn't want to sound bad in front of Jooohhhhhhhn!

Women would reach up towards him if he got close to the edge of the stage. He told a couple of funny stories in between songs but the other stories were lame (And I am a fan) and the women all laughed out loud and oohed and awwwed. We were all told beforehand that there was no intermission. But about 50 minutes in, John went off stage while his small orchestra played instrumental. Almost half of the crowd walked out...I thought it was pretty disrespectful to the musicians. I can't imagine how they felt watching people getting up and going to the restroom while the focus is on them. Luckily most weren't back when John came back to the stage and he just happened to play one of his biggest songs. So nuts to them!

The whole thing was a pretty interesting experience from my perspective. I couldn't see this happening at a female musicians concert. I know Beyonce was grabbed at a show and it made the news...these women were trying to paw over John. I don't know any men who go to a Shakira concert or any other female musicians concert because of their looks and to shout at them on stage. It's an interesting world we live in!

Standman · 17-04-2014 10:30pm

sailornaruto39 wrote: »

That's fair, they could be friends, but I'm assuming they aren't and that it wasn't staged.

Did you not see him awkwardly resist at first?

I didn't see him give any resistance at all actually, nor did he look the slightest bit surprised or embarrassed.

sailornaruto39 wrote: »

Of these physical interactions you speak of does ripping someone's shirt count? Who does that?

Yes depending on the context, ripping someones shirt counts.

sailornaruto39 wrote: »

believe me I'm kinda glad she did it and I know it was all in good fun and that he doesn't have much of a problem with it (though he kinda did). This just reveals an ugly hipocrsy that women have sometimes

Do you not agree that it's a double standard? Would you give this same indifference with switched genders?

Would some people be reacting differently to to this were the genders were reversed? Possibly. I would be just as indifferent.

I don't disagree that double standards exist between men and women. I don't think this is a good example of a double standard however.

These are self obsessed celebrities at a "raunchy" awards show we are talking about here, they love this kind of attention.

18-04-2014 12:37am

Women have it easy....sexism against men (well, beta men at any rate).....ooh my life is so hard.....groan groan groan.....literally physically sick.

beano345 · 18-04-2014 1:49am

Deleted User wrote: »

Women have it easy....sexism against men (well, beta men at any rate).....ooh my life is so hard.....groan groan groan.....literally physically sick.

You must be "alpha" so :rolleyes:

18-04-2014 2:01am

beano345 wrote: »

You must be "alpha" so :rolleyes:

Nah, not really. :eek:

Well, maybe a bit.

I'm a white well-educated fella with a bit of spending power. I have it easy compared to a hell of a lot of people, especially the vast majority of women. I daresay a lot of the posters on this forum are in exactly the same position - but Jaysus you wouldn't know it to read some of them.

I'd rather light a candle than curse the darkness. And I'd rather count my blessings than find excuses to complain. That's just me, eh?

beano345 · 18-04-2014 2:07am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nah, not really. :eek:

Well, maybe a bit.

I'm a white well-educated fella with a bit of spending power. I have it easy compared to a hell of a lot of people, especially the vast majority of women. I daresay a lot of the posters on this forum are in exactly the same position - but Jaysus you wouldn't know it to read some of them.

I'd rather light a candle than curse the darkness. And I'd rather count my blessings than find excuses to complain. That's just me, eh?

Are you married?

Dublin Red Devil · 18-04-2014 2:27am

They are just playing to their audience. Lets be honest, The crowd are majority teenage girls, High school musical, Twilight fans who see guys like Efron and Robert Patinson etc as idols and sex symbols.

18-04-2014 2:31am

beano345 wrote: »

Are you married?

Why? I didn't even say I was straight. :rolleyes:

Would my opinion be more valid (or less valid) if I was separated or widowed?

Double standards at MTV awards

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