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Brit nuclear reactor planned for Ireland?

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  • 22-06-2013 2:12pm
    #1
    joshea3
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭


    Unearthed this British Government’s Office for Nuclear Development report in Wikileaks 2010 archives. Scary!


«13456

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    #2
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Not really modern plants are perfectly safe and with the S.E.M we could benefit from cheaper electricity as our current energy mix currently provides us with some of the dearest electricity in Europe


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    #3
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    ted1 wrote: »
    Not really modern plants are perfectly safe and with the S.E.M we could benefit from cheaper electricity as our current energy mix currently provides us with some of the dearest electricity in Europe

    Gotta love the complacency. :rolleyes:


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    #4
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Well show me examples where they are not?


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    #5
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    "Brit nuclear reactor planned for Northern Ireland" is what the thread title should be. Not that it would make any real sense to locate such a facility in Norn Iron as far as I can see, it offers no advantage over a comparably "remote" location in Scotland or Wales, though the Scots would of course get uppity at the thought of one as they think they will have independence which presumably will be powered by good will or some such in a few years.


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    #6
    Tomk1
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Tomk1


    What's this "Brit" word in the title about are you some kind of ra-fanboy why not go dailymail and use scum or other derogatory term while your at it.

    As regards to; most likely a French built Nuclear plant in that country Northern Ireland, I say go for it, just because Ireland is like cave-men burning coal doesn't mean everyone else have to be.


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    #7
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Tomk1 wrote: »
    What's this "Brit" word in the title about are you some kind of ra-fanboy why not go dailymail and use scum or other derogatory term while your at it.

    Very OTT reaction, what has the RA fit to do with it , what is derogatory about the word Brit?


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    #8
    joshea3
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭joshea3


    Dear oh dear. I thought this was an environmental forum but now I’m being accused of being a “ra-fanboy” for using the term “Brit”. If Tomk1 thinks it’s offensive, he should inform all those poor musicians who’ve been tarred with the “Brit pop” label, and while he’s at it start campaigning to have the “Brit awards” banned.
    There obviously is nothing wrong though with calling the denizens of Cumbria who live under the shadow of the Thorpe reprocessing plant “cave men”, or the other Neanderthals in Co. Louth who don’t share Tomk1’s “go for it” approach to nuclear power.


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    #9
    Reamer Fanny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,828 ✭✭✭Reamer Fanny


    ted1 wrote: »
    Well show me examples where they are not?

    Fukushima?


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    #10
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    justryan wrote: »
    Fukushima?

    Right so, tell me what happened that was so bad. A name of a town with a question mark is hardly a reason to not go nuclear


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    #11
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    ted1 wrote: »
    Right so, tell me what happened that was so bad. A name of a town with a question mark is hardly a reason to not go nuclear

    Nothing happened, thousands of people didn't have to be evacuated from an environmental disaster and if you expect the truth about the damage to come out you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/nuclear/safety/accidents/Fukushima-nuclear-disaster/


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    #12
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Nothing happened, thousands of people didn't have to be evacuated from an environmental disaster and if you expect the truth about the damage to come out you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/nuclear/safety/accidents/Fukushima-nuclear-disaster/

    And there was 2 million people relocated/ evacuated for the three gorges hydro plant. Should be ban hydro in Ireland ?

    A reactor built on a fault line where the generators whet put in the wrong location. I honestly can't see any issue with one in Europe


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    #13
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Just as well the island of Ireland is famously earthquake/tsunami free.


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    #14
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    mike65 wrote: »
    Just as well the island of Ireland is famously earthquake/tsunami free.

    I think we all learned about the ring of fire in primary school


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    #15
    EoghanIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    ted1 wrote: »
    Right so, tell me what happened that was so bad. A name of a town with a question mark is hardly a reason to not go nuclear

    Yes but fukshimas reactors were damaged by an earthquake. What are the likely hoods of this occurring in Ireland ?


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    #16
    Technoprisoner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    ted1 wrote: »
    And there was 2 million people relocated/ evacuated for the three gorges hydro plant. Should be ban hydro in Ireland ?

    A reactor built on a fault line where the generators whet put in the wrong location. I honestly can't see any issue with one in Europe


    its a lot easier to deal with flooding that radioactive melt down...at least you can move back on to the land that got flooded. There were protest in Japan this month to stop the government from opening back up the nuclear power plants. The fall out is so extensive that every ship arriving from japan has to be checked for radioactivity and all its contents.....and by the way it wasnt the earthquake that caused the nuclear fall out but when the place flooded from the tsunami it knocked out the generators that are used to cool down the plant. And im sure you are well aware of the flooding problems we have in Ireland on a yearly basis


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    #17
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    EoghanIRL wrote: »
    Yes but fukshimas reactors were damaged by an earthquake. What are the likely hoods of this occurring in Ireland ?

    Yes and then the diesel generators failed due to flooding


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    #18
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Technoprisoner wrote: »
    its a lot easier to deal with flooding that radioactive melt down...at least you can move back on to the land that got flooded. There were protest in Japan this month to stop the government from opening back up the nuclear power plants. The fall out is so extensive that every ship arriving from japan has to be checked for radioactivity and all its contents.....and by the way it wasnt the earthquake that caused the nuclear fall out but when the place flooded from the tsunami it knocked out the generators that are used to cool down the plant. And im sure you are well aware of the flooding problems we have in Ireland on a yearly basis
    Yes and the flooding was due to the tsunami, there built close to the coast due to access to water. The damage occurred as the genies were placed in buildings below sea levels, the flooding occurred because of an earthquake. Due to our geographical location these are not at an issue.


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    #19
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Technoprisoner wrote: »
    its a lot easier to deal with flooding that radioactive melt down...at least you can move back on to the land that got flooded. There were protest in Japan this month to stop the government from opening back up the nuclear power plants. The fall out is so extensive that every ship arriving from japan has to be checked for radioactivity and all its contents.....and by the way it wasnt the earthquake that caused the nuclear fall out but when the place flooded from the tsunami it knocked out the generators that are used to cool down the plant. And im sure you are well aware of the flooding problems we have in Ireland on a yearly basis

    Japan has been having rolling black outs and thee are Also protests due to lack of power.


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    #20
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Technoprisoner wrote: »
    its a lot easier to deal with flooding that radioactive melt down...at least you can move back on to the land that got flooded. There were protest in Japan this month to stop the government from opening back up the nuclear power plants. The fall out is so extensive that every ship arriving from japan has to be checked for radioactivity and all its contents.....and by the way it wasnt the earthquake that caused the nuclear fall out but when the place flooded from the tsunami it knocked out the generators that are used to cool down the plant. And im sure you are well aware of the flooding problems we have in Ireland on a yearlyis
    Nuclear fall out? That's a pretty tabloid saying, care to expand. I'm well aware how nuclear energy is converted I've been studying it for years.


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    #21
    Technoprisoner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    the generators where above sea level but the flooding knocked them out.

    And by fall out i mean melt down as in the emergency generators that pump water into the reactors to cool them down stop, turned whatever water there was in them into steam and resulted in a melt down that can not be stopped and is still happening to this day!!1

    If there was a nuclear power plant put in the North of ireland and it had a melt down anywhere near the scale of Fukushima pretty much everyone on our little island would be in trouble....so stop trying to tell me that Nuclear power is safe when we all know it is not .....2 power plants on the same day suffered the same type of failure. and i dont fancy those odd's ;)


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    #22
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Safety gaps in many European nuclear plants were uncovered by the stress tests ordered by the European Commission after Fukushkima. And as a result, the Commission has just published a proposed Nuclear Safety Directive:

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-539_en.htm

    There's a reason no insurance company will fully cover a nuclear plant's safety insurance. The final backer will always be the state, as Japanese tax payers have learned.


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    #23
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Technoprisoner wrote: »
    And im sure you are well aware of the flooding problems we have in Ireland on a yearly basis
    Which couldn’t possibly be taken into consideration in any plant design?
    Technoprisoner wrote: »
    ...2 power plants on the same day suffered the same type of failure.
    ...which could have been avoided if the plant were better designed (incredibly, there was no provision for tsunamis in the design basis for the reactors) and the staff were properly trained to deal with the situation that arose. Poor management and lax regulation were major factors in the accident.


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    #24
    Technoprisoner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Which couldn’t possibly be taken into consideration in any plant design?
    ...which could have been avoided if the plant were better designed (incredibly, there was no provision for tsunamis in the design basis for the reactors) and the staff were properly trained to deal with the situation that arose. Poor management and lax regulation were major factors in the accident.


    this country cant manage to build a road properly that can accommodate the amount of users....what makes you think we could design a nuclear power plant. The Japanese are usually well ahead in these terms and they got caught out proving that nuclear is not worth taking the chance over. Sure even Germany has closed down some of its nuclear power plants since the japanese disaster


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    #25
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Technoprisoner wrote: »
    this country cant manage to build a road properly that can accommodate the amount of users....what makes you think we could design a nuclear power plant. The Japanese are usually well ahead in these terms and they got caught out proving that nuclear is not worth taking the chance over. Sure even Germany has closed down some of its nuclear power plants since the japanese disaster
    First of all, I’m not advocating a nuclear power plant for (Northern) Ireland – whatever about safety, I’ve never been convinced by the economic argument.

    Secondly, it’s very unlikely that, were such a project given the go-ahead, that the firms involved in the construction would be Irish.

    Finally, I really hate this idea that Ireland is somehow light-years behind everyone else in the world in terms of technical know-how – it’s complete nonsense.


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    #26
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ted1 wrote: »
    with the S.E.M we could benefit from cheaper electricity as our current energy mix currently provides us with some of the dearest electricity in Europe
    Perhaps you could care to comment on EDF looking for twice the market price for power from their planned UK reactors ? ( £90Bn over the life of the plant)

    Or the clean up cost for Sellafield ? (£67.5Bn )
    And that might be cheap since the guberment might have to do it themselves rather than handing out the latest installment to the private sector that hasn't managed it so far.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10133528/Sellafield-clean-up-could-be-taken-into-state-hands-as-22bn-contract-up-for-review.html

    LOL at the way Nuclear accounting is nearly as good as Hollywood accounting.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jun/23/britain-nuclear-atomic-clean-up-decommissioning
    In the NDA's 2011 annual report the provisional cost of dealing with the UK's nuclear legacy was put at £53bn, compared with a 2010 figure of £49bn. The new number in the 2012 set of accounts is expected to be around £55bn. But under previous accounting methods, the figure historically used has risen to well over £80bn with some predicting the final bill could exceed £100bn.





    Meanwhile the cost of Solar is dropping 7% a year.
    http://www.solarplaza.com/article/moving-the-uk-solar-market-past-the-boom-and-bust
    LONDON, 6 MAY 2013 – The UK solar PV market is making headlines again as its 500 MW of installed capacity accounted for 10% of the global installations in the first quarter of 2013. As a result, the UK market passed the 2 GigaWatt mark of cumulative installed solar capacity. 2012 hasn't been a bad year either. Government statistics confirm 779 MW of installed PV capacity in 2012.


    NornIron is more likely to get a 200MW tidal turbine system.

    Also all Island capacity reports show that we have lots of capacity here for the medium term.


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    #27
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,910 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Secondly, it’s very unlikely that, were such a project given the go-ahead, that the firms involved in the construction would be Irish.

    Finally, I really hate this idea that Ireland is somehow light-years behind everyone else in the world in terms of technical know-how – it’s complete nonsense.
    Look at the UK, they built their first nuclear power plants back in the 50's but the proposed ones are by EDF who are French. We don't have the same history of nuclear expertise as the UK (mild understatement) so if they have to go foreign then so do we.

    One of the reasons for looking at Carnsore Point here was so that ESB International could gain the expertise to sell nukes abroad.


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    #28
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    Perhaps you could care to comment on EDF looking for twice the market price for power from their planned UK reactors ? ( £90Bn over the life of the plant)
    And £10Bn of guarantees for nuclear just announced:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/27/danny-alexander-guarantees-nuclear-power.

    Interesting statement: "Government sources said the public funding to support the £14bn Hinkley Point project did not represent a subsidy to nuclear power since the guarantees would be offered at a commercial rate."

    I've never heard this definition of a non-subsidy..


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    #29
    Technoprisoner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    have a read of this and tell me that you still want a nuclear power plant on this island and the it is totally safe to do so http://now.msn.com/fukushima-vegetables-mutated-in-viral-photos-possibly-due-to-radiation


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    #30
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Technoprisoner wrote: »
    have a read of this and tell me that you still want a nuclear power plant on this island and the it is totally safe to do so http://now.msn.com/fukushima-vegetables-mutated-in-viral-photos-possibly-due-to-radiation

    For a start the source is "some Korean website". Hardly fills one with confidence that this is a reliable and reputable story. Secondly, there is nothing that abnormal about the vegetables apart from that they aren't very appealing to the eye. This type of thing happens all the time, radiation or not. Just Google image search "weird looking vegetables" or something like that for loads of examples.


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    #31
    Technoprisoner
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Technoprisoner


    well then does this make you feel nuclear power is safe? http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/lost-world-fukushima/5102

    or maybe this will convince you

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19245818


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