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Do you have to go directly from A to B on a rail ticket

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  • 27-02-2013 2:46pm
    #1
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭


    Slightly inspired by the 'I fell asleep' thread but something that has got me interested.

    When you buy a rail ticket do you have to go directly from Point A to Point B.

    To use an example, say you have a ticket to go from Dublin to Balbriggan. Can you go from Dublin to Balbriggan via Drogheda on the same ticket. You're making the same journey but you might be on the train for slightly longer.

    Is this allowed?


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    #2
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    P_1 wrote: »
    Slightly inspired by the 'I fell asleep' thread but something that has got me interested.

    When you buy a rail ticket do you have to go directly from Point A to Point B.

    To use an example, say you have a ticket to go from Dublin to Balbriggan. Can you go from Dublin to Balbriggan via Drogheda on the same ticket. You're making the same journey but you might be on the train for slightly longer.

    Is this allowed?
    Yes but only in a situation where you Board the Enterprise in Dublin and take it to Drogheda and then take the next commuter train back to Balbriggan. you should not be allowed to leave the platforms in Drogheda without being fined.


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    #3
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,148 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    No

    If the journey planner on Irish Rail's site gives you an itinerary that doubles back then its ok.


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    #4
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,854 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    heres the conditions of travel:
    http://www.irishrail.ie/media/ConditionsOfTravel1.pdf
    5. Available route of tickets
    5.1 Except as specified in Appendix 1 of the regulations and conditions contained
    in the publications and notices of and applicable to Iarnród Éireann:
    5.1.1 a ticket is valid for use only between the stations shown on the ticket;
    and
    5.1.2 tickets which do not state a route are only valid for the most direct
    journey.
    so, it seems quite clear that the example of going from Dublin to Balbriggan via Drogheda is not allowed unless its specifically stated on your ticket.

    You can also break a journey at intermediate stations but again theres a difference between an intermediate station and a station down the line beyond your destination.

    (Appendix 1 only states that you can use a return leg on a parallel line, i.e. a Galway-Dublin ticket can be used for say Dublin-Westport on the return leg and some technicalities about ticketing the Nenagh branch line)


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    #5
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    heres the conditions of travel:
    http://www.irishrail.ie/media/ConditionsOfTravel1.pdf


    so, it seems quite clear that the example of going from Dublin to Balbriggan via Drogheda is not allowed unless its specifically stated on your ticket.

    You can also break a journey at intermediate stations but again theres a difference between an intermediate station and a station down the line beyond your destination.

    (Appendix 1 only states that you can use a return leg on a parallel line, i.e. a Galway-Dublin ticket can be used for say Dublin-Westport on the return leg and some technicalities about ticketing the Nenagh branch line)
    You can only break your journey on intercity journeys, and in the case of travelling to Drogheda to then go back to Balbriggan may be the most direct route on the next available service - but this may only be allowed on intercity journeys?


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    #6
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    P_1 wrote: »
    Slightly inspired by the 'I fell asleep' thread but something that has got me interested.

    When you buy a rail ticket do you have to go directly from Point A to Point B.

    To use an example, say you have a ticket to go from Dublin to Balbriggan. Can you go from Dublin to Balbriggan via Drogheda on the same ticket. You're making the same journey but you might be on the train for slightly longer.

    Is this allowed?

    No. You are not making the same journey as you travel further than what you paid for.


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    #7
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Interesting, having said that the advent of the Leap card may have made the argument slightly redundant.


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    #8
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    With the leap card you could tag on in Connolly and go to Belfast and tag off in Balbriggan if you dont go through the barriers in Belfast and dont get caught by a ticket checker.


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    #9
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    With the leap card you could tag on in Connolly and go to Belfast and tag off in Balbriggan if you dont go through the barriers in Belfast and dont get caught by a ticket checker.

    Never thought of that :D

    How far out is the Leap card supposed to take you? I'm guessing Dundalk on the Northern Line anyway


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    #10
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    The same can be said for any ticket i suppose if you dont exit and dont get caught on the train.

    Balbriggan.


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    #11
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    With the leap card you could tag on in Connolly and go to Belfast and tag off in Balbriggan if you dont go through the barriers in Belfast and dont get caught by a ticket checker.

    Are you sure ?

    Doesn't the Belfast train has its own designated platform at Connolly ?

    Not sure if it can be accessed using a Leap Card.


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    #12
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Lapin wrote: »
    Are you sure ?

    Doesn't the Belfast train has its own designated platform at Connolly ?

    Not sure if it can be accessed using a Leap Card.

    Platform 2. It can be accessed in many ways but you dont have to board it in Connolly .


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    #13
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Platform 2. It can be accessed in many ways but you dont have to board it in Connolly .

    True, but the first stop on the Belfast service is Drogheda. The far side of Balbriggan !


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    #14
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Lapin wrote: »
    True, but the first stop on the Belfast service is Drogheda. The far side of Balbriggan !

    Im aware of that, i was on about something else.


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    #15
    Lapin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Lapin


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Im aware of that, i was on about something else.

    I know what you're getting at. I used to ask similar questions in London when the Oyster was introduced. I'm simply trying to highlight potential flaws.


    Here's another. The time limit. Don't all journey's using Leap have to be completed within 90 minutes ?

    This would make a trip to Balbriggan via Belfast impossible.


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    #16
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    If thats the case then ye, but it could still be done with a ticket say from Pearse to Clontarf Road and a good bit of luck providing you dont exit at a station which is manned.


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    #17
    JackieBurke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 69 ✭✭JackieBurke


    It is common enough when attempting to travel to such exotic places like Templemore or Ballybrophy. There are a few trains where you must travel through both stations and then break the journey at Thurles where you have to catch a Dublin bound train back. You can exit the station at Thurles and no one will stop you.


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    #18
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    heres the conditions of travel:
    http://www.irishrail.ie/media/ConditionsOfTravel1.pdf


    so, it seems quite clear that the example of going from Dublin to Balbriggan via Drogheda is not allowed unless its specifically stated on your ticket.

    You can also break a journey at intermediate stations but again theres a difference between an intermediate station and a station down the line beyond your destination.

    (Appendix 1 only states that you can use a return leg on a parallel line, i.e. a Galway-Dublin ticket can be used for say Dublin-Westport on the return leg and some technicalities about ticketing the Nenagh branch line)

    Just on that point, what do they class as 'the most direct journey' in:
    5.1.2 tickets which do not state a route are only valid for the most direct journey

    Is that the most direct journey 'as the crow flies' or is it the most direct journey in terms of time?


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    #19
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    If the journey planner allows it as an option then it's valid.


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    #20
    purplepanda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    munchkin_utd wrote: »
    heres the conditions of travel:
    http://www.irishrail.ie/media/ConditionsOfTravel1.pdf


    (Appendix 1 only states that you can use a return leg on a parallel line, i.e. a Galway-Dublin ticket can be used for say Dublin-Westport on the return leg and some technicalities about ticketing the Nenagh branch line)

    Can you still do this? I've traveled back on a return ticket on the Athlone line after traveling to Longford before from Dublin a few years back I know it was allowed then.

    So you can travel return Dublin - Wexford then Waterford - Dublin ? That's handy for me! :D


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    #21
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There are certain examples, such as tickets bought from the Nenagh Branch to Dublin can be used to return to Templemore or Thurles. I'm not quite sure what other options still exist.


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    #22
    munchkin_utd
    Registered Users Posts: 7,854 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    lxflyer wrote: »
    There are certain examples, such as tickets bought from the Nenagh Branch to Dublin can be used to return to Templemore or Thurles. I'm not quite sure what other options still exist.
    its spelled out in black and white what the options are in the PDF document I linked with the Irish Rail conditions of travel - appendix A at the back.

    EDIT: I tried to post the options earlier this morning but the formating is crap so I gave up


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    #23
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    In lots of cases it's necessary to travel beyond your destination and back to it on another train. As long as you don't leave the area covered by your ticket, i.e. which is usually the station itself, you are ok.
    lxflyer wrote: »
    If the journey planner allows it as an option then it's valid.

    Does it state this in the by-laws? I doubt the journey planner is even mentioned.


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    #24
    JackieBurke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 69 ✭✭JackieBurke


    1.2 Where a person purchases an ordinary return ticket at Nenagh, Cloughjordan
    or Roscrea, an extra charge will arise unless the said ticket is for a return
    journey from Dublin, Heuston to Templemore or from Dublin, Heuston to
    Thurles. Where a person purchases an ordinary return ticket at any station on
    the Nenagh branch (e.g. Castleconnell) to Dublin, Heuston for a return journey
    to Limerick, he or she shall be liable to pay the appropriate excess fare on the
    basis of a return journey from Limerick to Dublin, Heuston.
    Mad stuff.


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    #25
    JackieBurke
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 69 ✭✭JackieBurke


    n97 mini wrote: »
    In lots of cases it's necessary to travel beyond your destination and back to it on another train. As long as you don't leave the area covered by your ticket, i.e. which is usually the station itself, you are ok.



    Does it state this in the by-laws? I doubt the journey planner is even mentioned.

    The by laws state the most direct route.
    5. Available route of tickets
    5.1 Except as specified in Appendix 1 of the regulations and conditions contained
    in the publications and notices of and applicable to Iarnród Éireann:
    5.1.1 a ticket is valid for use only between the stations shown on the ticket;
    and
    5.1.2 tickets which do not state a route are only valid for the most direct
    journey


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    #26
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Obviously this only applies to full price tickets and not web fares.


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    #27
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    "Most direct" isn't defined, and therefore open to interpretation, probably deliberately. Quite often the shortest distance is not the shortest journey. E.g. Is someone travelling from Belfast to Clontarf Road expected to change to the DART at Malahide, the shortest route, or at Connolly, the quickest route?


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    #28
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I would say whatever option the journey planner gives.


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    #29
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I would say whatever option the journey planner gives.

    As already stated the journey planner has no legal standing.


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    #30
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    n97 mini wrote: »
    "Most direct" isn't defined, and therefore open to interpretation, probably deliberately. Quite often the shortest distance is not the shortest journey. E.g. Is someone travelling from Belfast to Clontarf Road expected to change to the DART at Malahide, the shortest route, or at Connolly, the quickest route?[/QUOTE

    At Connolly and buy a ticket for Clontarf road unless they are able to buy a ticket for Clontarf road in Belfast.


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    #31
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    n97 mini wrote: »
    "Most direct" isn't defined, and therefore open to interpretation, probably deliberately. Quite often the shortest distance is not the shortest journey. E.g. Is someone travelling from Belfast to Clontarf Road expected to change to the DART at Malahide, the shortest route, or at Connolly, the quickest route?

    The Belfast train doesn't stop at Malahide, closest stop to Dublin is Drogheda


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