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Hare Coursing

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    #62
    meoklmrk91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    Hunter21 wrote: »

    Once anti groups get coursing banned they won't be happy they'll move on and try get all sports to do with animals banned. This in years to come could make a number of vets unemployed.

    It's like dominos once one will fall the others will fall in time..

    I can assure you that as long as herd testing is around there will not be any unemployed vets in this country.


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    #63
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Hunter21 wrote: »
    So you want to ban horse racing and greyhound racing too? Those animals get put through their paces quiet often and get whipped all for money..

    No, I simply said that money should not be a factor in determining if something is right or wrong.

    You're turning it into an argument that making money from sports involving animals is inherently bad, and that's not what I meant.

    It is possible to make money without hurting animals.


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    #64
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,191 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Hunter21 wrote: »
    Fair enough, but would you not see it as; "Another mans sport" so leave them be.

    No, because of the torture aspects. Hunting in general I have no problem with.


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    #65
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,191 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    coolhull wrote: »
    Or take on a pair of greyhounds yourself.

    A muzzled bear or lion would be more in the spirit of coursing ;)


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    #66
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Zombienosh wrote: »
    I've seen pictures of dogs having the muzzles removed after catching up to them.
    I'd love to know how these people remove the muzzle on a dog travelling at 30mph.
    Ava_e wrote: »
    To the people who belief I'm lying, this was my experience with hare coursing.


    The coursing event I went to was in England where it is illegal . I was staying with my friend and her family, the are into all types of hunting shooting etc... after luch we went for a walk, his son is into hare coursing and he and his fiends had organised it, I went over not really knowing what expect. The dogs were muzzled at first, I found it unplesent, and it did distress the hares a lot.

    Towards the end of the evening, it was suggest by the son that the muzzles be taken off, or as one of the party said laughing "one for dinner later".

    Two dogs were unmuzzled and ripped the hares to shreds in seconds. As I said earlier maybe their scumbag behaviour is down to overpopulation, either way then and now I found it disgusting.
    So you were dismayed that an ILLEGAL event didn't take any account of animal welfare. Quel surprise.


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    #67
    kevthegaff
    Registered Users Posts: 6,916 ✭✭✭kevthegaff


    horseracing is just as cruel but no one says it:confused:


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    #68
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    A muzzled bear or lion would be more in the spirit of coursing ;)

    Is it not the dog's natural instinct to the chase down a hare in the wild?
    I know I wouldn't chase a bear.


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    #69
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    horseracing is just as cruel but no one says it:confused:

    No quite. People do say it, they usually aren't listened to, though.


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    #70
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    horseracing is just as cruel but no one says it:confused:

    Lots of people say it. :confused:


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    #71
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    I'm sure the hare doesn't notice the muzzles when it's having a fatal heart attack trying to get away from the yokels and their dogs.

    It would point to a serious design fault if animals died of fear when being chased. There'd be no hungry predators in any case.


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    #72
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    Is it not the dog's natural instinct to the chase down a hare in the wild?
    I know I wouldn't chase a bear.

    Yes, dogs have a natural instinct to chase prey.

    The argument here is between people whose instinct is to cheer the dog on - to the point of setting up an artificial contest over a captive hare, and people whose instinct is to sympathise with the hare and wonder what cruelty lies behind people's enjoyment of coursing.


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    #73
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    pickarooney wrote: »
    It would point to a serious design fault if animals died of fear when being chased. There'd be no hungry predators in any case.

    Certain animals have a weak heart that actually protects them in the wild from being eaten alive. You may call it a serious design fault but it is a far better way to go than to be torn to bits.


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    #74
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    starlings wrote: »
    Yes, dogs have a natural instinct to chase prey.

    The argument here is between people whose instinct is to cheer the dog on - to the point of setting up an artificial contest over a captive hare,
    Where's the captive hare? It's called open coursing for a reason.

    [/QUOTE]and people whose instinct is to sympathise with the hare and wonder what cruelty lies behind people's enjoyment of coursing.[/QUOTE]

    There is no cruelty when it's being run right and to the letter.
    Have you even been to a course meet?


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    #75
    shy-tall-knight
    Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭shy-tall-knight


    Great sport with a great tradition in this country. In reality a very small proportion are killed and to assume that hares getting killed is the draw of the sport is completely incorrect.


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    #76
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    reprazant wrote: »
    Certain animals have a weak heart that actually protects them in the wild from being eaten alive. You may call it a serious design fault but it is a far better way to go than to be torn to bits.

    I think people like to anthropomorphise the hares a little too much. Small animals get chased and killed and eaten by big ones in their billions every day. I've never been to one of these and wouldn't have any interest, but what's the essential difference between attending a hare coursing event and watching a David Attenborough documentary?


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    #77
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I think people like to anthropomorphise the hares a little too much. Small animals get chased and killed and eaten by big ones in their billions every day. I've never been to one of these and wouldn't have any interest, but what's the essential difference between attending a hare coursing event and watching a David Attenborough documentary?

    Seriously?

    Are you saying that there is no difference from watching wild animals going about their daily survival from putting a hare in an enclosed space with two dogs and watch it attempt to escape for its life all for the enjoyment of those looking?

    if I got a lamb and a couple of hens and put them in with a group of foxes, is that just real life then? No different from a bit of tv?


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    #78
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    Where's the captive hare? It's called open coursing for a reason.
    Do they sit around and hope a hare will randomly appear on the course?
    There is no cruelty when it's being run right and to the letter.
    Have you even been to a course meet?
    There is cruelty. Muzzle or no muzzle the hare takes a lashing from the dogs when caught.


    I could come home every evening and punch my dog in the face and as enjoyable as that might seem to some it would still be cruel, even though no blood is drawn and the dog wouldn't die.


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    #79
    Sittingpretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭Sittingpretty


    pickarooney wrote: »

    I think people like to anthropomorphise the hares a little too much. Small animals get chased and killed and eaten by big ones in their billions every day. I've never been to one of these and wouldn't have any interest, but what's the essential difference between attending a hare coursing event and watching a David Attenborough documentary?

    That's surely not a genuine question is it?


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    #80
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    kevthegaff wrote: »
    horseracing is just as cruel but no one says it:confused:

    Greyhound racing is a horrible sport that leads to the deaths of hundreds of dogs too, but you wouldn't think it by the crowds at the track.


    Is hare coursing cruel? Yes it is. Is it any worse, from the hare's point of view, than being chased by a fox or bird of prey? No.


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    #81
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    pickarooney wrote: »
    It would point to a serious design fault if animals died of fear when being chased. There'd be no hungry predators in any case.

    The problem is more likely to surface when the dogs get up close and personal, muzzle or no muzzle.


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    #82
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,191 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »

    Is it not the dog's natural instinct to the chase down a hare in the wild?
    I know I wouldn't chase a bear.

    It was a joke, but the bear would be chasing you of course, would be no fun watching a person chase a bear. :D


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    #83
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    Seachmall wrote: »
    Do they sit around and hope a hare will randomly appear on the course?

    Same way as you waited for your "pet" dog to move into his kennel?



    There is cruelty. Muzzle or no muzzle the hare takes a lashing from the dogs when caught.

    That's just it, very few and often none are caught.


    I could come home every evening and punch my dog in the face and as enjoyable as that might seem to some it would still be cruel, even though no blood is drawn and the dog wouldn't die.

    That's just absurd-the dog would bite your head or similar off in self defense


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    #84
    starlings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭starlings


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    Where's the captive hare? It's called open coursing for a reason.
    and people whose instinct is to sympathise with the hare and wonder what cruelty lies behind people's enjoyment of coursing.[/QUOTE]

    There is no cruelty when it's being run right and to the letter.
    Have you even been to a course meet?[/QUOTE]

    you're right, I'm terribly sorry. That should have read:

    "a hare that has been captured, or bred in captivity, and is chased around an enclosure."

    I see a cruelty in the enjoyment of a contrived chase of a wild animal -right and to the letter. This is where we differ.

    No, I haven't been to a course meet, but since my opinion is based on reliable accounts, including yours, I don't think I need to see it for myself.


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    #85
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    That's just absurd-the dog would bite your head or similar off in self defense

    That would depend on how large the dog is.:P


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    #86
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    Same way as you waited for your "pet" dog to move into his kennel?
    What?


    That's just it, very few and often none are caught.
    The probability of them being caught doesn't have much to do with the cruelty of the game when they are caught.

    That's just absurd-the dog would bite your head or similar off in self defense
    No he wouldn't. He's a big pussy.


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    #87
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Matt_Trakker wrote: »
    Ah yes, we can always believe what's said in Parliament.

    I've just developed an uncontrollable urge to yawn.:P


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    #88
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    Seachmall wrote: »
    What?

    There's a name for this defence, you know exactly what I'm saying.



    The probability of them being caught doesn't have much to do with the cruelty of the game when they are caught.

    There again it's not in the name of cruelty this sport is practiced. Every possible advantage to escape is given the hare, the ultimate aimisn't to mangle the hare to oblivion.


    No he wouldn't. He's a big pussy.
    Maybe he's a cat?:)


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    #89
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    hyperborean wrote: »

    Who is we, and what makes you a better person?

    Well I can't speak for bambi but I am a better person than those people because I don't eqaute enjoyment with another being suffering.


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    #90
    Seachmall
    Registered Users Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Ilik Urgee wrote: »
    There's a name for this defence, you know exactly what I'm saying.
    You're making no sense. You claimed the hare wasn't a captive when it clearly is. I've no idea how this relates to my dog.


    There again it's not in the name of cruelty this sport is practiced. Every possible advantage to escape is given the hare, the ultimate aimisn't to mangle the hare to oblivion.
    So if I give my dog 3:1 odds of not getting punched it's no longer cruel when I punch him?

    Maybe he's a cat?:)
    Too large and he's terrified of mice.


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    #91
    Ilik Urgee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭Ilik Urgee


    Seachmall wrote: »
    You're making no sense. You claimed the hare wasn't a captive when it clearly is. I've no idea how this relates to my dog.

    Your dog is being held captive against his free will indefinitely,albeit he'll have a better lifestyle than if left to his own devices,which would be his natural choice.

    Seachmall wrote: »
    So if I give my dog 3:1 odds of not getting punched it's no longer cruel when I punch him?

    The dog won't wait to be punched, same as a hare won't wait to be bowled over.


This discussion has been closed.
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