RPG suggestions?

CastorTroy · 28-11-2012 3:07am #1

So I never got the whole Turn Based RPG appeal like Final Fantasy, etc. In fact until I played Ocarina of Time when it was released, I had heard the Zelda games being classed as RPGs so never tried them before.

My opinion on them is simply I never liked the "turn based" part of them. Just seems completely random. "Oh look, doing his most powerful move on one of 3 enemies!" "Missed" No reason given but now each of the 3 enemies has a free shot each at the player.
Because of this I haven't played any Final Fantasy or Pokemon games.

But anyway, I was just wondering, if you were to suggest a game to introduce someone(or me) to RPGs what game(s) would you suggest? Maybe a way to change my mind about them.

Elmidena · 28-11-2012 3:34am

Diablo II and Torchlight are lightweight but fun ones

Not an RPG but a fun dungeon crawler in the vein of Zelda is The Binding of Isaac (but I recommend not buying WotL)

Canis Lupus · 28-11-2012 3:43am

CastorTroy wrote: »

So I never got the whole Turn Based RPG appeal like Final Fantasy, etc. In fact until I played Ocarina of Time when it was released, I had heard the Zelda games being classed as RPGs so never tried them before.

My opinion on them is simply I never liked the "turn based" part of them. Just seems completely random. "Oh look, doing his most powerful move on one of 3 enemies!" "Missed" No reason given but now each of the 3 enemies has a free shot each at the player.
Because of this I haven't played any Final Fantasy or Pokemon games.

But anyway, I was just wondering, if you were to suggest a game to introduce someone(or me) to RPGs what game(s) would you suggest? Maybe a way to change my mind about them.

Well being turn based doesn't make something an rpg. RPG is simply role playing game but I believe they originated from table top games where you'd have to throw die hence the 'random' hit/miss. The rule base carried over into computer games. Even in realtime 'typical' RPGs this process still happens in the background. Anyway, turn based is just one format for a game.

If you're looking for a 'typical' rpg (whilst I didn't like it) Dragon Age Origins got great reviews. Older style would be Knights of the Old Republic and older still Baldurs Gate 2, Icewind Dale 1&2 and Neverwinter Nights. You could also look at MMOs being Guildwars 2, WoW and Star Wars The Old Republic (this one has just gone free to play).

EDIT: Gosh, can't believe I forgot Torchlight 1 and 2 as mentioned above. I'd probably recommend them as a starter as well.

Overheal · 28-11-2012 3:44am

Star Wars, the Old Republic (MMO) was shut down earlier in the year.

The first RPG I ever played was probably Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars. You can download it on the Wii shopping channel. Worth it.

There is of course the always inflappable Pokemon. The original version (Red, Blue, followed quickly by Yellow) are probably a little dated at this point but they would offer the simplest gameplay. Someone who is read up on later versions for the DS could probably make a better suggestion.

Then there is of course Final Fantasy VII. The game that introduced me to RPGs as RPGs. In comparison to Seven Stars, I can do a speedrun of Seven Stars in the time it takes me to hit the World Map in FFVII. This alone completely blew my mind and it's been in my toplist ever since. The average first run through of FFVII will take you between 60 and 80 hours of storyline play. Before this my longest-played title was Half Life somewhere in the region of 10 hours for the single player campaign. If you can play FFVII for an hour without being impressed in some way, you'll have impressed me. Keep in mind there are plenty of menu options: even changing the window colors can add more appeal, but more importantly this lets you change the Battle System to suit your play-style: if you want time to think, its set up that way. If you would rather that the battle timer is always ticking, that option is there too. I will always hold this title in high esteem; I've probably played through it at least 4 or 5 times. Probably one of the best adventure titles ever made. If this title still fails to appeal to you, you can try out VIII (some fans prefer this over VII), or X (just stay away from it's sequel). The appeal of X is the combat is very fluid even if turn-based and the dialog is all voice-acted should you not be craving the read-only scene.

For more modern vibe, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic brings live dialog, good graphics and a mix of Turn-base and Real-Time. Familiar Star Wars franchise, unfamiliar time period, unfamiliar characters, and that actually helps keep the story suspenseful. Force powers are always a hoot too.

You could also play other games like Jedi Academy which aren't turn based but rather action games with RPG elements where as you progress you choose which Force abilities you want to pursue. One of my favorites always being Push, plus the combination of Sprint and Jump made you feel like the Million Dollar Man sprint-jumping across huge gaps in the level. Zelda games fit in this category but there is no customization of the character's abilities so much as there is a storyline, an open world and an inventory system. Another one in this category to consider is Darksiders: Wrath of War, because who doesn't want to be a Horsemen of the Apocalypse?! Plenty of action and violence in that title.

GRMA · 28-11-2012 3:48am

skyrim or oblivion

Magill · 28-11-2012 3:50am

I'd probably recommend something like dragon age or the mass effect series for someone like yourself. Good modern RPG's imo, some of the older (Arguably better). If you like them, then you could give the slightly older classics like Knights of the old republic a go or even something like buldars gate (I'm gonna go out on a limb and say stay away from BG for now....).

Overheal · 28-11-2012 3:53am

Magill wrote: »

I'd probably recommend something like dragon age or the mass effect series for someone like yourself. Good modern RPG's imo, some of the older (Arguably better). If you like them, then you could give the slightly older classics like Knights of the old republic a go or even something like buldars gate (I'm gonna go out on a limb and say stay away from BG for now....).

I won't even go near Baldurs Gate. Its just not in my area of appeal for some reason.

Mass Effect is a great modern title though. Skyrim - I like Skyrim a lot don't get me wrong but it is weak on story-driven elements, it's far too free-roaming (if you like that sort of thing). If you're looking for something that plays out more like a movie etc. you're leaning more toward a traditional RPG.

Retr0gamer · 28-11-2012 3:58am

Well firstly Ocarina of Time isn't an RPG.

As for not liking turn based games, well to be honest Final Fantasy isn't the best example. Persona 4 would be the one I'd recommend you try again something that is turn based. It's got the level of choice you'd have in a western RPG but also one of the best turn based battle systems of any RPG.

I definitely wouldn't recommend FFVII, time hasn't been kind to it, the story is a bit silly and the battle system is very basic. It's a lot of fun but I'm guessing what you say you don't like about final fantasy games sums up FFVII very well.

gizmo · 28-11-2012 4:02am

I'd probably start with either the Mass Effect series or the first Dragon Age. They're modern, aesthetically pleasing and quite accessible for RPG newcomers. From there you could move onto excellent titles as The Witcher 1/2, Fallout 3 / New Vegas, Oblivion / Skyrim and even the first and latest Deus Ex games for a slightly more action oriented approach to things.

Once you've worked your way through some of those, I'd most certainly recommend the Baldur's Gate games, they were the first true RPG games I played as a kid and even now I can't wait for the remastered edition of the first entry to be released for another playthrough.

Canis Lupus · 28-11-2012 4:11am

Overheal wrote: »

Star Wars, the Old Republic (MMO) was shut down earlier in the year.

Erm... no, assuming we're talking about the same game, it just went free to play and it's working fine.

Notorioux · 28-11-2012 4:14am

try star ocean the last hope its real time battle system.

Overheal · 28-11-2012 4:18am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Erm... no, assuming we're talking about the same game, it just went free to play and it's working fine.

SWG, sorry.

Retr0gamer · 28-11-2012 4:57am

Notorioux wrote: »

try star ocean the last hope its real time battle system.

Christ, it's not worth it when you have to sit through hour long cutscenes of nonsense.

Skerries · 28-11-2012 10:41am

yeah as stated I'd stick to a more modern RPG such as Oblivion/Skyrim as a jumping off point as you can wander around and find your own adventures but be prepared for the long haul as between them there is probably 300 - 400 hours of gameplay

"shorter" games coming in at about 60 hours would be The Witcher/Mass Effect/Dragon Age and Fallout 3 series of games

all highly recommended

Reekwind · 28-11-2012 11:08am

I'm not sure why people would suggest putting off the classics for now. They made be slightly clunky/ugly by today's standards but the likes of Baldur's Gate 1/2, Planescape, Fallout 1/2, KotOR 1/2, etc, remain shining examples of a genre that is more than 'FPS with stats'

CastorTroy wrote:

My opinion on them is simply I never liked the "turn based" part of them. Just seems completely random. "Oh look, doing his most powerful move on one of 3 enemies!" "Missed" No reason given but now each of the 3 enemies has a free shot each at the player

It's an abstraction; a way of representing a mass of simultaneous actions as a discrete series of actions. All RPGs, and indeed all computer games, have this at their core but some hide it better than others

Dravokivich · 28-11-2012 11:09am

I'd recommend fable the lost chapters. Easy to get into and found it quite enjoyable. Doesn't feel as much of a chore as other RPGs can.

Retr0gamer · 28-11-2012 11:25am

There's nothing wrong with turn based games, just some games do it better than others and Final Fantasy isn't really one of them. X-Com really showed how good turn based games can be.

LostCorkGuy · 28-11-2012 11:31am

Not Joking here but honestly if you want a limited RPG then Get Far Cry 3 this weekend , it's open world free roam , you level up and pick perks , you do multiple missions , theres crafting , potion making ect it's more deserving of the title RPG than mass effect in my view

Real RPG's in my opinion are games where you can do what ever the **** you want , IE open world free roam , along the lines of the Elder Scrolls series and Fallout , where the main story isn't the objective of the game , you know why ? Because it's ROLE PLAYING not a story driven game where you have small leveling up options no free roam ect Basically Mass Effect Series and Dragon Age Series , sure they have choices in them and pretty big ones but I don't consider them to be true RPG's , well Mass Effect More than Dragon Age , at least in Dragon age you could revisit areas to clear them out again .

Can't say anything about the Asian RPG's however , mostly play on Xbox and PC so I never got introduced to them at a young age

degrassinoel · 28-11-2012 11:53am

I'd recommend the original fallout, and fallout 2 as turnbased Rpg's go, they are glorious! Or better yet, Wasteland!

CastorTroy · 28-11-2012 11:55am

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm used to some elements such as leveling up through experience in games like Infamous and Avatar. Even Dead Space had a similar element using nodes to upgrade weapons.

I've been a Nintendo gamer since the NES days so hearing about big announcements only for them to be Pokemon or seeing Paper Mario is a turn based game kinda disappoints.

Would anyone suggest the Mario/Luigi RPG games like Bowser's Inside Story? Would probably be DS or 3DS I'd be trying to get into them on since I've plenty of games on the home consoles to get through. :-)

Retr0gamer · 28-11-2012 12:06pm

The mario & luigi games are superb. They are surprisingly hilarious as well with some great writing.

Reekwind · 28-11-2012 12:55pm

LostCorkGuy wrote: »

Not Joking here but honestly if you want a limited RPG then Get Far Cry 3 this weekend , it's open world free roam , you level up and pick perks , you do multiple missions , theres crafting , potion making ect it's more deserving of the title RPG than mass effect in my view

Real RPG's in my opinion are games where you can do what ever the **** you want , IE open world free roam , along the lines of the Elder Scrolls series and Fallout , where the main story isn't the objective of the game , you know why ? Because it's ROLE PLAYING not a story driven game where you have small leveling up options no free roam ect Basically Mass Effect Series and Dragon Age Series , sure they have choices in them and pretty big ones but I don't consider them to be true RPG's , well Mass Effect More than Dragon Age , at least in Dragon age you could revisit areas to clear them out again .

Can't say anything about the Asian RPG's however , mostly play on Xbox and PC so I never got introduced to them at a young age

Shock, someone on the internet has a different definition of something than I do. Still, there are a few points that should be made here

RPG is not a synonym for either 'stats-based levelling' or 'sandbox games'. They may often contain these but it is certainly not necessary. To describe something like Far Cry 3, a straight up open-world shooter, as a RPG, in any way shape or form, is just wrong. You can put a hat on a dog but it won't make him a human

More serious it the notion that RPGs are "games where you can do whatever the **** you want". That's a generation raised on the Elder Scrolls speaking. Let me be clear: the ability to roam around a map has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a game is an RPG. Very few people would consider, say, Pirates! to be an RPG. That many RPGs do have these open map areas is a legacy of their tabletop roots, not a defining feature in themselves. (And in most cases this is an illusion: games like KotOR just offer different 'levels' that can be played in any order. Similarly the likes of Bloodlines really just present a linear series of hubs to be explored)

Where Mass Effect (the first one at least) disqualifies itself from being a RPG (or a good one at least) is in that most of the gameplay is bog-standard shooting with relatively little meaningful interaction with yourself or companions. It's this interaction with the world and exploration of your role in it, as opposed to basic spatial exploration, that really defines the genre. Story is often key in this: it explains who you are, what you're doing and how you interact with others. That is, it provides you with a role to inhabit. Contrast to Far Cry or Just Cause where you have this vast playground but you're never more than Musclehead #17

(I don't consider the Elder Scrolls games to be particularly good RPGs because they often fail this basic test. Yes, I have a badass avatar and, yes, I can climb the highest mountain but there's no real roleplaying going on, beyond of course what the player puts in)

mewso · 28-11-2012 1:50pm

LostCorkGuy wrote: »

Not Joking here but honestly if you want a limited RPG then Get Far Cry 3 this weekend , it's open world free roam , you level up and pick perks , you do multiple missions , theres crafting , potion making ect it's more deserving of the title RPG than mass effect in my view

Real RPG's in my opinion are games where you can do what ever the **** you want , IE open world free roam , along the lines of the Elder Scrolls series and Fallout , where the main story isn't the objective of the game , you know why ? Because it's ROLE PLAYING not a story driven game where you have small leveling up options no free roam ect Basically Mass Effect Series and Dragon Age Series , sure they have choices in them and pretty big ones but I don't consider them to be true RPG's , well Mass Effect More than Dragon Age , at least in Dragon age you could revisit areas to clear them out again .

Can't say anything about the Asian RPG's however , mostly play on Xbox and PC so I never got introduced to them at a young age

I think RPG is too general a term for many games. While I really enjoy the open world games and loved Skyrim there is something to be said for the story driven decisions and consequences approach too. The games that get mentioned far too rarely imo are the Gothic series. They are the ideal mixture of open world, story and consequences in an RPG for me where you actually chose a path that makes a huge difference to how you play the game. They also have a tricky combat system that has a real sense of achievement when you improve and can consider taking on certain enemies that you absolutely must avoid before being good enough.

It's where the Elder Scrolls falls down for me. Far too easy and you can be a jack of all trades wizard/thief/warrior. Whatever you like. With each iteration they have improved on these issues and I have poured hours into them but the grade is still "can do better". I honestly think Gothic 1-3 are up there with the best games I have ever played. The third had it's issues but the ambition was wonderful to behold. Really loved these games.

As for turn based. Anachronox is a game I loved but mainly for the story. The turn based combat was painful. Took ages for each battle.

Like LostCorkGuy I am not an expert on all of the RPG genres. I'm only now using gog to get into the classic ones but between the likes of Elder Scrolls, Gothic and Stalker like games the RPG is easily my favorite game type now but the line is so blurred these days which is why I know for a fact that Far Cry 3 (as mentioned above), a perfect example of how hard it is to pin down a genre, will take up most of my time when it's released. An open world shooter with RPG elements. Good enough for me.

penev10 · 28-11-2012 2:07pm

Can't believe no one has suggested Dark Souls! Obviously just what the OP is after :pac: As far from turn based combat as possible but with all the stat tweaking, weapon upgrading and item pilfering that makes the genre great.

If Dark Souls is a bit daunting, something like Kingdoms of Amalur might suit as it's got plenty of action RPG features but nothing too hardcore.

CastorTroy · 28-11-2012 2:51pm

penev10 wrote: »

Can't believe no one has suggested Dark Souls! Obviously just what the OP is after :pac: As far from turn based combat as possible but with all the stat tweaking, weapon upgrading and item pilfering that makes the genre great.

If Dark Souls is a bit daunting, something like Kingdoms of Amalur might suit as it's got plenty of action RPG features but nothing too hardcore.

Actually bought Demon's Souls, since I heard it's such a nice easy game.

Sarky · 28-11-2012 3:10pm

The Infinity Engine series (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment) are pretty much genre-defining classics. Baldur's Gate is supposed to be out today in Enhanced Edition mode with extra bells and whistles, but they're all pretty cheap at this stage so worth a go. they're not exactly turn-based: they're real time but you can pause at any time to consider tactics (or have the game pause automatically on a given event, like a character becoming critically wounded)

The Oblivion/Skyrim lot is pleasant enough, although ultimately a little bland when it comes to choices and character-shaping gameplay.

Retr0gamer · 28-11-2012 3:16pm

penev10 wrote: »

Can't believe no one has suggested Dark Souls!

I should be shot. OP this is the game you want! Best game in ages.

gizmo · 28-11-2012 4:15pm

penev10 wrote: »

Can't believe no one has suggested Dark Souls! Obviously just what the OP is after :pac: As far from turn based combat as possible but with all the stat tweaking, weapon upgrading and item pilfering that makes the genre great.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I should be shot. OP this is the game you want! Best game in ages.

You should both be shot for recommending it to someone looking for an introduction to RPGs. :pac:

penev10 · 28-11-2012 6:17pm

CastorTroy wrote: »

Actually bought Demon's Souls, since I heard it's such a nice easy game.

Well there you go! I gather by you saying that you bought it that you haven't gotten around to playing it yet?

I find Dark Souls easier than Demon's Souls. More checkpoints, (mostly) easier bosses, less linear etc. I'm not sure if that opinion falls in with the general consensus but Dark is definitely a better game also.

ancapailldorcha · 28-11-2012 6:30pm

I'm finding a New Game Plus to be much tougher in Demon's Souls than it's successor. Maybe it's the fact you can't upgrade your armor.

ahnowbrowncow · 28-11-2012 6:46pm

Great choice with demon souls.

What about Valkyria Chronicles? I've been meaning to get it cause it's supposed to be a gem for the ps3.

And I'd appreciate some advice myself for an rpg. I think I've played all the best western rpgs (elder scrolls, witcher 1 & 2, fallout 1 - new vegas, kotor, diablo etc) but I've neglected the jrpgs in the last few years, think ff xii was the last one I played.

Thinking of getting one of these, can't decide though. Dragon Quest viii, Persona 3 or 4 or Valkyria Chronicles. Which should I go for or any other recommendations?

RPG suggestions?

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