Book recommendations thread

Permabear · 12-06-2012 4:42pm

This post has been deleted.

K-9 · 12-06-2012 11:02pm

football_lover wrote: »

Hi all.

I was wondering if anybody here had considered starting a movement to try and educate the public on the concepts of libertarianism.

Currently there is nobody in Irish politics that is the equivalent of Ron Paul that can put the concept of liberty on the table. Most of the debate is from the same shades of economic thought that created the debt crisis in Ireland.

Does anybody here have any idea's about how to start a movement and were to get started (not a political party).

What would the fundamental philosophies of Irish Libertarian be and how could it be tailored in terms of Irish media and the the existing political ideologies that are prevalent in Irish society.

The main political theories in Ireland revolve around the welfare state. The Labour Party, Sinn Féin, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail all base their political/economic ideologies from a pro-statism perspective.

How would we form a text body of education and it context against classical Irish politics/economic. what are the pitfalls of the Austrian school in an Irish context for example making a statement in Ireland getting rid of social welfare would freak most people out as they would not understand the greater economic context of such a move.

Does the Irish constitution conflict with the concepts of libertarian.

(This is my fourth attempt at trying to get this post up on these forums First time it crashes second time it told me I was not logged in third time it went to another post and was missing half the text. And the last time it was in political theory but was missing half the text. I will try again.)

Thread merged with existing 'call to action' threads, we already have a couple on this.

Denerick · 12-06-2012 11:35pm

Valmont wrote: »

Are you saying that because people are diverse and self-contradictory we should adopt a political position that is equally diverse and self-contradictory? Pragmatism, as explained above, seems to me an excuse for inconsistency, based on the premise that the state is always the most expedient solution to any problem (show me a libertarian pragmatist!). That a political orientation claiming to be 'pragmatic' and 'non-ideological' has the social contract at its base is clearly confusing the issue.

I understand your argument in jettisoning the traditional ideological orientations but big government social democracy, no matter how 'pragmatic', has just as strong an ideological basis as communism or libertarianism. I'm not sure on what basis you can claim otherwise:

John Rawls
Thomas Hobbes
Rousseau
Plato

I could go on and on and on and on -- all political persuasions, at their base, have prescriptive rules for how individuals and society should act towards each other. I don't understand the modern drive towards denying this fact?

I understand what you are saying and I know how it can appear to be contradictory.

To a libertarian anybody advocating any kind of national regulation or social safety net is by default a statist. To a far left socialist anybody advocating a loosening of labour market rules so that privileged insiders are not protected to the extent that young unemployed people are actively discriminated against (ie, Spain, Italy, Greece etc.) is by default a right wing capitalist apologist. The reality is that we formed such powerful states because of the inherent conflict between capital and labour, a natural consequence of the capitalist system as it developed throughout the course of the industrial revolution. In our post industrial age it sometimes seems like the traditional social democratic ideas, which were at their pinnacle in the generation following the second world war, are an anachronism. The state is neither an inherently good or bad thing, but so long as its citizenry are idiotic you will get bad policies and governments. The Irish and the Greeks are all too familiar with this.

You're going to have to accept that libertarianism is such an overwhelmingly obscure and minority philosophy that it would do well to become a footnote in any history of the 21st century. The reason why that philosophy is so irrelevant is because people are rightfully appalled at what your philosophy will mean in practise, and how badly it will debase the decent standards of living that generations of citizens have fought long and hard for. This is the problem; nice theory, but nobody wants it. Raw communism is similarily crazy but it at least has some tepid support among largeish sections of society. (At least in its theoretical form)

I'm not going to pretend that its impossible to be pragmatic because libertarianism and communism are such extreme and ridiculous fringe polar opposites that they are effectively irrelevant to any serious political discussion. Sorry. In realpolitick pragmatism means not being afraid of adopting ideas commonly associated with either the left or the right, so long as they 'work'.

My answer may or may not have been influenced by the fact that I've just finished watching a film called Matewan, by the way :P

So you don't find Sinn Féin, who are either the second or third most popular party in the state at the present time, to be either "ideological" or "angry"?

Not so much ideological as populist. And not so much angry as stupid. Their support is very soft and will wither away at the next election.

That doesn't seem to match up very well with the reality of Ireland over the past decade. Was increasing state spending by 140 percent between 2000 and 2008 a good, pragmatic idea? Was the banking bailout a good idea? Was NAMA a good idea? Was the Croke Park Agreement a good idea?

Talking in absolutes, some of those policies were a little misguided, of course. Unfortunately few of us possess the iron fortitude of the standard libertarian in these situations - ie, sit down and let the entire system unravel and unleash the full chaos of the free market in its elementary condition - so I suppose misguided policy is the standard response by government when reacting to the demands of a free and democratic citizenry (No matter how flawed they may be)

European Parliament · 13-06-2012 3:11pm

Friday, 15 June at 3.00p.m.

About the Speech:
In this meeting jointly organised by the IIEA and the European Parliament Office in Ireland, Scottish MEP David Martin will be outlining the nature of the debate within the European Parliament on the controversial Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA), an international trade agreement aimed at tackling violations of Intellectual Property Rights. David Martin is the European Parliament's rapporteur on ACTA, on which it will be voting in July. Several EP committees have already recommended its rejection and, if the Parliament as a whole does not give its consent, the entire EU would have to stay out of the agreement.
Please note the later than usual time of this event.
About the Speaker:
David Martin is a member of the European Parliament Committee on International Trade, as well as a member of the Committee on Human Rights and a substitute member on the Constitutional Affairs Committtee. He was also Vice Chairman of the Socialist Group in 1987, Vice President of the European Parliament for five years, from 1989, and subsequently Senior Vice President of the European Parliament with special responsibility for relations with national parliaments and parliaments of constitutional regional committees.
Location: Institute of European and International Affairs, 8 North Great Georges Street, Dublin 1
Tel +353-1-8746756 Fax +353-1-8786880

To register, please reply by email to reception@iiea.com, stating you wish to attend the [Martin] event.

Belfast · 13-06-2012 3:33pm

football_lover wrote: »

Hi all.

I was wondering if anybody here had considered starting a movement to try and educate the public on the concepts of libertarianism.

Currently there is nobody in Irish politics that is the equivalent of Ron Paul that can put the concept of liberty on the table. Most of the debate is from the same shades of economic thought that created the debt crisis in Ireland.

Does anybody here have any idea's about how to start a movement and were to get started (not a political party).

What would the fundamental philosophies of Irish Libertarian be and how could it be tailored in terms of Irish media and the the existing political ideologies that are prevalent in Irish society.

How would we form a text body of education and it context against classical Irish politics/economic. what are the pitfalls of the Austrian school in an Irish context for example making a statement in Ireland getting rid of social welfare would freak most people out as they would not understand the greater economic context of such a move.

Does the Irish constitution conflict with the concepts of libertarian/.

First you need to start a think thank/school.

An Irish version of the von mises institute http://mises.org/

Then you need some popular book explaining why the crash happened here. There are lots of books explaining the what and the when but not the why.

It would be a long term project.

Irish politics is about serving the need of special interest groups.

Libertarianism/Austrian economics has noting to offer these groups.

without the support of the special interest groups no politician could get in to power or stay in power for very long.

The Irish constitution would need to be changed.

Welfare could not be shut down overnight it would need to be phased out.

Drastic changes only take place after the existing system has been seen to fail and the special interest groups are shown to be the parasites that they are.

The best you can hope for is to have the ideas of libertarian/Austrian School of economics to be under stood before and debated before the collapse.

It is a hard sell as it goes against every thing we were taught in school hear in the Irish media.

I do not think the Irish will be the first to try these ideas, we normal wait for some one else to try new ideas first.

Valmont · 14-06-2012 1:26pm

Belfast wrote: »

I do not think the Irish will be the first to try these ideas, we normal wait for some one else to try new ideas first.

Someone else being Britain, right?

football_lover · 14-06-2012 11:10pm

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Yeah, Marxists say that too. Austrian economics predicts nothing. And personally I think we have enough libertarian threads on this forum. Use the existing threads to discuss libertarianism and Ireland.

It is quite that you need to understand what Austrian economics is as you have incorrectly compared it to Marxism.

And the existing treads do not discuss libertarianism and Austrian economics in contexts to theory and a movement because if they did I would have used them instead.

Marxist have made absolutely no "predicts" similar to Austrian economics they are two opposing methods.

Marxism come under the concept of Empirical Economics and the Austrian method come under the subjective they are completely opposed and have no real relationship.

football_lover · 14-06-2012 11:42pm

K-9 wrote: »

Thread merged with existing 'call to action' threads, we already have a couple on this.

I do not understand why this thread has been moved it had taken me several attempts to get it posted and allot of aggravation.

This thread is about the concepts of theory and their contexts and not a political party.

There has been other discussions about libertarianism but not in the context of Irish libertarian/Austrian economics.

My post is not "calls to action, surveys, announcements of political meetings and new parties" it is in the context of theory and application of theory. I have read over the original post to see if I have given the impression of starting a new party or political meetings. Can you please give me a response/feedback.

K-9 · 15-06-2012 12:22am

football_lover wrote: »

I was wondering if anybody here had considered starting a movement to try and educate the public on the concepts of libertarianism.

Currently there is nobody in Irish politics that is the equivalent of Ron Paul that can put the concept of liberty on the table. Most of the debate is from the same shades of economic thought that created the debt crisis in Ireland.

Does anybody here have any idea's about how to start a movement and were to get started (not a political party).

I see it as a call to action, which if you look at the OP, this thread specifically caters for. Plus this thread contains similar OP's with Libertarian outlooks. If you read back you'll find like minded individuals, all in the one thread, a useful resource for you.

Any questions, pm me.

Belfast · 17-06-2012 2:09am

Valmont wrote: »

Someone else being Britain, right?

Not sure I would hold Britain up as an example to follow.

hatrickpatrick · 18-06-2012 1:18am

Can Ireland refuse to implement this if the EU passes it, or is this one of those awful cases in which the EU can overrule the government of Ireland if needs be?
Seems like it would be far easier to convince the Irish government to reject it than the EU

The number of attempts at internet regulation over the last few months is astonishing and depressing.

Felix Rourke · 18-06-2012 3:02pm

16/06/12

With the Austerity referendum now over, éirígí Dublin City Councillor Louise Minihan has called for resistance against austerity to be built on a street-by-street, community-by-community basis across the Twenty-Six Counties. Minihan stated that the focus of that resistance must be the strengthening of the Campaign Against the Household and Water Taxes (CAHWT).

Speaking from Ballyfermot, Councillor Minihan said, “The results of the referendum have shown that there is no democratic support for austerity amongst the Irish working class. It is of the utmost importance that we build on that result. Now is the time to organise in our communities, to build a mass movement against the current economic system. Building the CAHWT and strengthening the mass campaign of civil disobedience must become the political priority for everyone that is serious about resisting austerity.

“Recent figures from Phil Hogan’s department have revealed that the majority of homeowners are in fact boycotting the home tax. This is a major victory for the CAHWT. Hogan’s figures also show that of the 706,007 that have registered for the tax, 106,332 are landlords who have registered a total of 332,900 properties between them. This is a long way from the spin of the Fine Gael/ Labour coalition, which claims that a majority of people have paid the home tax. The boycott of the home tax is the largest act of mass civil disobedience in recent decades in this country.”

Commenting on the effectiveness of the home tax boycott, Cllr Minihan said, “The boycott campaign is forcing the establishment into re-thinking their tactics. Even the Troika have had to take notice of the growing resistance to the austerity programme. The call by the Troika for a fairer form of austerity would be laughable if it wasn’t so serious. There is nothing fair about austerity. Austerity, by its very nature, is designed to hit workers, communities and vital public services.

“The early success of the CAHWT, in building a mass boycott, must now be built upon. The campaign must be strengthened on a street-by-street, community-by-community basis across this state.”

Minihan continued, “The next stage of the campaign will see the state attempt to break the home tax boycott through intimidation and court proceedings. These attempts will be met with, and defeated by, the same solidarity that built the boycott in the first place.

“The coming months will also see the government preparing the ground for the introduction of water taxes. As with the home tax, this new tax can be defeated through a mass campaign of civil disobedience and boycott. I would appeal to each and every person across this state that is opposed to the home and water taxes to join the CAHWT. By standing together we can defeat not only these taxes, but also the wider austerity programme.

“If there is no local campaign in your area, speak to your family, friends and neighbours about the issues, and contact the CAHWT or éirígí so we can help to establish this campaign on every street, in every village, town and city in this state.”

http://www.eirigi.org/latest/latest160612.html

southsiderosie · 18-06-2012 3:22pm

MOD NOTE:

Eirigi call to action moved from main page to this thread.

POSTERS PLEASE NOTE: This thread is for people and organizations to post info on rallies, campaigns, etc. However, it seems to be turning into another discussion thread. If people want to discuss the issues behind the calls to action (i.e. views on ACTA), or discuss their opinions on the various campaigns proposed in this thread (for example, opinions on CAHWT), please do so in the main forum, not in this thread.

tuppence · 28-06-2012 5:59pm

Hi I just thought I woud alert ye to this free lectures by Greg Palast in Dublin, Enniskillen and Leitrim

ENNISKILLEN
No.6 Cafe Merlot, Monday 2nd July, 1pm - Talk and Book Signing

CARRICK-on-SHANNON
Bush Hotel, Monday 2nd July, 8pm - Talk and Book Signing.

DUBLIN
Connolly Books, Temple Bar, Tuesday 3rd July, 1pm - Talk and Book Signing.

DUBLIN
The Ireland Institute, 27 Pearse St. D2, Tuesday 3rd July, 7.30pm - Talk and Book Signing.

*All Events Admission Free

With his most recent publication Vulture's Picnic - the New York Times bestselling author of Armed Madhouse offers a globetrotting, Sam Spade-style investigation that blows the lid off the oil industry, the banking industry, and the governmental agencies that aren't regulating either.

This is the story of the corporate vultures that feed on the weak and ruin our planet in the process-a story that spans the globe and decades.

For Vultures' Picnic Palast built a team that reads like a casting call for a Hollywood thriller - a Swiss multilingual investigator, a punk journalist, and a gonzo cameraman-to reveal how environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill, the Exxon Valdez, and lesser-known tragedies such as Tatitlek and Torrey Canyon are caused by corporate corruption, failed legislation, and, most interestingly, veiled connections between the financial industry and energy titans.

He is bringing his insights into the global hydrofracking rush to Ireland at the request of local anti-fracking campaigners. He, as a long term resident of New York, has had a front row seat in a conflict raging there between multinational oil and gas companies and a mass campaign who do not want the Marcellus Shale to be fracked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/gregpalast

tomasocarthaigh · 02-07-2012 3:59am

If this is posted in the wrong area, please move...

The Westmeath branch of the Save Our National Schools campaign in co-operation with local IT firm Cartyweb (yes, thats me, the website is www.cartyweb.ie - shameless selft plug!!!!) have developed and published a video to highlight the issues and the forthcoming march to Dail Eireann on July 4th 2012.

http://www.SONS.ie is their website - https://www.facebook.com/sonsc is them on Facebook - the video is below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIdm98Zb6oQ

Please help by sharing it, and turning up at the protest if you can.

According to the website www.SONS.ie the following is planned:

04/07/2012 - Cultural Festival in Kildare Street from 18:00 - 21:00. Fun for all whilst supporting the Education Bill Amendment being voted on that evening.

Theyre on Facebook as well, probably more up to date than the website...

The event profile on Facebook is here

tuppence · 03-07-2012 7:14pm

tuppence wrote: »

Hi I just thought I woud alert ye to this free lectures by Greg Palast in Dublin, Enniskillen and Leitrim

ENNISKILLEN
No.6 Cafe Merlot, Monday 2nd July, 1pm - Talk and Book Signing

CARRICK-on-SHANNON
Bush Hotel, Monday 2nd July, 8pm - Talk and Book Signing.

DUBLIN
Connolly Books, Temple Bar, Tuesday 3rd July, 1pm - Talk and Book Signing.

DUBLIN
The Ireland Institute, 27 Pearse St. D2, Tuesday 3rd July, 7.30pm - Talk and Book Signing.

*All Events Admission Free

With his most recent publication Vulture's Picnic - the New York Times bestselling author of Armed Madhouse offers a globetrotting, Sam Spade-style investigation that blows the lid off the oil industry, the banking industry, and the governmental agencies that aren't regulating either.

This is the story of the corporate vultures that feed on the weak and ruin our planet in the process-a story that spans the globe and decades.

For Vultures' Picnic Palast built a team that reads like a casting call for a Hollywood thriller - a Swiss multilingual investigator, a punk journalist, and a gonzo cameraman-to reveal how environmental disasters like the Gulf oil spill, the Exxon Valdez, and lesser-known tragedies such as Tatitlek and Torrey Canyon are caused by corporate corruption, failed legislation, and, most interestingly, veiled connections between the financial industry and energy titans.

He is bringing his insights into the global hydrofracking rush to Ireland at the request of local anti-fracking campaigners. He, as a long term resident of New York, has had a front row seat in a conflict raging there between multinational oil and gas companies and a mass campaign who do not want the Marcellus Shale to be fracked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/gregpalast

Apparently, by all accounts Greg Palast Talk in Ireland Institute at 7.30 PM will be streamed (all going well) on http://www.ustream.tv/ch

Fenian Army · 27-08-2012 6:38pm

later12 · 01-09-2012 2:05pm

This looks good. Open to anybody. No booking.

http://esri.ie/news_events/events/forthcoming_events/event_details/index.xml?id=346

Event Details

ESRI Seminar: “Emerging From Recession? Future Prospects for The Irish Economy 2012 – 2020”
Venue: The ESRI, Whitaker Square, Sir John Rogerson's Quay, Dublin 2
Speaker: Dr John Bradley.
Date: 12/09/2012
Time: 16.00

If you can't make it, this accompanying paper is worth a read in itself

http://esri.ie/UserFiles/events/346_Bradleypaper.pdf

Avatarr · 04-09-2012 6:47pm

http://www.wexfordecho.ie/2012/09/04/protesters-call-for-government-to-reverse-home-care-cuts/

A protest has taken place outside Government Buildings this afternoon to object to the HSE's plans to cut €10m from home care services.

Everyone, if possible please turn up to support this protest, promote on social media and encourage friends, family e.t.c to pick up a placard, there are plenty of worthy causes in Ireland at the moment, but surely this is one of the most urgent.

DON’T LET THEM STAND ALONE.

fellow traveller · 08-09-2012 4:46pm

Hello Politicos,

I'm one half of a Irish based team that has developed votomate.com, a quiz that tells you which presidential candidate you are most compatible with. We previously ran votomatic.ie for the last Irish election.

General feedback on the site welcome, and feel free to pass it around.

Thanks Boards

Denerick · 08-09-2012 4:58pm

That question about 'do you agree that tax cuts for the wealthy in order to stimulate the economy is a good idea' (Paraphrase) is awkwardly phrased, it doesn't make sense. If you believe in stimulus measures of that sort you would agree with temporary tax cuts across the board, along with increased spending. Anything to increase demand in the economy (Though it makes more sense to increase spending on welfare etc. as poor people will spend the money in an instant. Wealthy people have enough sports cars, holiday houses in Tuscany and helicopters as it is)

Anyway, I thought a few of the questions were logically inconsistent in that kind of way, maybe you should take another look at it.

Anyway, apparantly I'm a hardcore Jill Stein supporter. All I'm missing now are my sandals and granola bar.

Chuck Stone · 08-09-2012 5:11pm

I don't like the questions.

The result has me as a progressive centre left.

I'm not a big fan of state provision of services but believe the state, inasmuch as there is no viable alternative, should play a key role in protecting people from each other and from corporate malfeasance.

fellow traveller · 08-09-2012 5:14pm

Thanks for the reply Denerick,

The questions are meant to reflect the major themes of the election. In this case it is taxing the wealthy and the government stimulus plan. Essentially they are two responses to the same problem, how does america generate growth and jobs?

To my mind the lower tax rate for the wealthy fits in with a "supply side" economic argument (money to invest and create new products & jobs) while the government stimulus is the "demand side" approach.

That said I'll have a think about your comments, and I'll see you are the organic farmers market later.

paky · 10-09-2012 12:47am

Can anyone recommend a book on the topic of self determination?

MANSO · 16-09-2012 1:02am

I'm looking for a good up-to-date biography of Haughey, can anyone recommend one please?

Belfast · 22-09-2012 3:53pm

Economics

Open World: The Truth about Globalisation
By Philippe Legrain

one of the best books I have read on the subject.

Immigrants: Your Country Needs Them
By Philippe Legrain

again well written.

Human Action
Ludwig von Mises
http://mises.org/document/3250

Meltdown by Thomas Woods

The Betrayal of the American Right. by Rothbard, Murray
http://mises.org/books/betrayal.pdf

History
The Luftwaffe : Strategy for Defeat 1933-1945
by WILLIAMSON MURRAY
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Luftwaffe/index.html#index

The Last Year of the Luftwaffe, May1944 to May 1945, by Alfred Price

This Is Berlin: Radio Broadcasts from Nazi Germany by "William Shirer"

Hitler's Greatest Defeat: The Collapse of Army Group Centre, June 1944 By Paul Adair

Hitler's Espionage Machine: The True Story Behind One of the World's Most Ruthless Spy Networks by Christer Jorgensen

Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War: How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World, is a book by Pat Buchanan.

The Rebel Raiders: The Warship Alabama, British Treachery, and the American Civil War
James Tertius De Kay

The Myth of the Great War: A New Military History of World War I
by John Mosier

Last Days in Babylon: The History of a Family, the Story of a Nation
by Marina Benjamin

The Empire of Reason: How Europe Imagined and America Realized the Enlightenment (Phoenix series)
Henry Steele Commager (Author)

Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West
by Dee Brown

The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War
Thomas DiLorenzo
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese169.html

great book shop
http://lfb.org/product-categories/

Free Books

lots of book in pdf for for free
http://mises.org/books/

Marxists Internet Archive (Great source for free books)
—— Reference Section
http://www.marxists.org/reference/

Project Gutenberg - free ebooks
http://www.gutenberg.org/

Belfast · 30-09-2012 10:19am

When Money Dies: The nightmare of the Weimar Hyper-Inflation
Adam Fergusson

Dub63 · 02-10-2012 8:22pm

Like it says in the title. Just trying to understand Socialism and its ideas a bit better.

Thanks for the help anyone can provide.

Blowfish · 02-10-2012 9:06pm

marxists.org has a pretty large library. A couple of the seminal works would be Marx's Communist Manifesto and his three volume Das Kapital.

Of course, If you want to see it from another angle, Von Mises does an excellent job of demolishing a lot of the collectivist arguments in Socialism - An Economic and Sociological Analysis.

Dub63 · 02-10-2012 9:13pm

Thanks Blowfish!

Book recommendations thread

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