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Led bulbs

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  • 15-06-2012 2:37pm
    #1
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭


    Hi, what do you think about led bulbs ? I think about open online shop with them.


«1345

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    #2
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    might be worth checking out boards.ie terms and conditions re advertising / commercial interaction


    LED at present are too expensive for anything other than localised or low level mood lighting. CFL completely wipes them in cost per watt - Atlantic had them for 10W / €1 less than 1% of the cost of LED - and there isn't enough difference in electrical efficiency to choose between them.


    Also LED Laser is about twice as efficient as LED - and so represents a real improvement in energy usage over CFL - , so until that comes along CFL is the best choice unless there is something particular you need.

    Yes LED last longer, but the only benefit is to be seen as an 'early adopter' as the cost of LED will drop before any investment at current price will pay off.

    No point in spending €50 to replace a €2 CFL when you aren't saving on the electricity. You will probably be able to buy two LED's with the €50 by the time you replace the CFL


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    #3
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    I agree that CFL are good choice when we talk about bulbs, they are cheap and efficient, but if we talk about spotlights things look different, Led Gu10 base or MR16 are worth to consider. Price almost the same, better efficiency and lifetime.


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    #4
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ledbulb wrote: »
    Led Gu10 base or MR16 are worth to consider. Price almost the same, better efficiency and lifetime.
    Only because the cost of non-standard bulbs here is extortionate

    If I had my way I would ban E27 fittings here, B22 is just so much better.

    E17 you can get CFL for but ouch on the cost , it should be similar to E27 ones.

    Gu10 / MR16 are designer sizes that you can't fit CFL into easily at present, :(


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    #5
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    You right, and as i know Gu10/MR19 thats 90% of market when we talk about Led light sources today.


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    #6
    coalminer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 ✭coalminer


    You guys are so out of date - I came on here looking for advice on which colour temperature is best for my kitchen. I got mine from [modedit] ahem [/modedit] and the price was good so I don't know what captain is on about! Has anyone tried the cool white bulbs - I'm not sure if they are too clinical looking???


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    #7
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users Posts: 14,966 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Post reported my friend.


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    #8
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The ones I got were CFL 24W 1445 Lumens Osram €2 and they fit into standard fittings.

    None of the LEDs on that site match the lumens per watt.
    so NO energy savings over CFL despite costing 30 times as much to buy , not including fittings

    until LED's are replaced by lasers (cf. BMW headlights ) then CFL's still offer the cheapest source of light


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    #9
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    coalminer wrote: »
    oh - and BTW - your favoured CFLs will not dim!!!
    actually some of the €2 bulbs I got had 0.3W LED + 11W CFL selectable by flicking the light switch. Works for me.

    And again no need to change any light fittings.



    Anyway for those looking for general advice on LED lights.

    IMHO the point is LED's are niche products - if you want mood lighting or specific colours - but for general make a room bright purposes I expect them to be replaced by more efficient products before they can payback any major investment in them.

    http://wot.motortrend.com/bmw-shows-us-how-its-laser-headlights-and-dynamic-lightspot-work-126103.html Once you go above the lasing threshold BMW reckon their head lights use half the power of equivalent LED's


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    #10
    coalminer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 ✭coalminer


    Captain - where did you learn maths?

    Lets say that you run a shop, maybe a jeweller shop where there are 50 x 50W halogen bulbs and you are open 10 hours a day and you are open 300 days per year.

    50 x 50w = 2500 watts per hour
    divide by 1000 to convert to units (or KwH) = 2.5 units per hour
    1 unit is approx 12c
    therefore 2.5(units)x10(hours)x300(days) = 7500 units over the year or 900 Euro

    The average saving on a LED bulb is 90% as these would be replaced with 5W bulbs which would cost only 90 Euros to run per year with an annual saving of 810 Euros

    Cost or replacement bulb is approx 10 euros each so total cost of 500 euros

    Therefore you start making saving from month 8 onwards.

    ROI is 8 months not including the cost of replacement halogens, maintainance (maybe getting an electrical engineer in for health and safety) and they last 25 times longer - so you don't need to change them. Actually they last around 50,000 hours which on the above example is 16.6 years!

    I don't see laser lights coming out before then!


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    #11
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    One detail, coalminer where can you buy good replacenent of 50W halogen for 10 EUR?
    I know the answer, you can't.
    Good replacement cost you about 15 Eur. 2700K, min 280 lm (real lm not fake lm)


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    #12
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    For what its worth;

    I bought a bunch of LED gu-10 bulbs for the kitchen and the light was ok but on the dim side. They also lasted about a year. CFL's last much longer. From my experience.


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    #13
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    shedweller wrote: »
    For what its worth;

    I bought a bunch of LED gu-10 bulbs for the kitchen and the light was ok but on the dim side. They also lasted about a year. CFL's last much longer. From my experience.


    CFLs are out of date now.

    Philips have a lovely range of LED GU10s.

    I have my entire house kitted out in them.

    Dimmable too (with certain dimmer pannels).

    Lovely warm light quality.:)


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    #14
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    unfortunately a lot of products on the market is bad or no quality and very often they come with no guarantee, thats the problem.


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    #15
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    coalminer wrote: »
    Captain - where did you learn maths?

    Lets say that you run a shop, maybe a jeweller shop where there are 50 x 50W halogen bulbs
    Like I said LED are niche.

    Are halogen's even legal here anymore ?

    In case you missed it CFL completely wipe halogens.

    50w halogen is 400 lumens / 5W LED is about 400 lumens
    50x400 lumens = 20,000 Lumens light in the shop 250 watts of LED's


    a €2 24W CFL is 1445 lumens
    14 of them will get you 20230 lumens 336 watts

    so replacing CFL with LED will save 86 watts

    a saving in your example of 86w * 300d * 10h = 258 units per year
    At 12c a unit that's nearly €31 per year :rolleyes:

    How many years will it take at €31 to pay for the 50 x 5W LED installation and fitting (and you must include financing costs in your answer) Because by then I reckon Laser will replace LED for lighting.


    http://www.gizmag.com/test-subjects-dont-mind-laser-light/20300/
    laserlight-1.jpg
    To create white light, the beams of blue, red, green, and yellow diode lasers are merged,
    ...
    When all was said and done, it turned out that there was a "statistically significant preference" for the laser light over that of the warm and the cool LEDs. There was little difference between preferences for the laser, neutral LED or incandescent lights.


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    #16
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    paddy147 I would not want to offend you but you can buy much better bulbs now, this lamps are nice but only 170lm,


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    #17
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    ledbulb wrote: »
    paddy147 I would not want to offend you but you can buy much better bulbs now, this lamps are nice but only 170lm,


    No offense taken

    I know what Im happy with,after trying out several types of LEDs.Its gives that lovely warm honely feeling and just the right amount of light and spread for all of us.

    My girlfriend and daughter and the rest of my family and her family love too.:D


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    #18
    shedweller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,029 ✭✭✭shedweller


    ledbulb wrote: »
    paddy147 I would not want to offend you but you can buy much better bulbs now, this lamps are nice but only 170lm,
    Do tell! Because i have to replace a few. I need to know whats good and whats not good.


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    #19
    cram1971
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭cram1971


    ledbulb wrote: »
    paddy147 I would not want to offend you but you can buy much better bulbs now, this lamps are nice but only 170lm,

    I was going to say something similar. Led technology is moving along so quickly and prices dropping at the same time


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    #20
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    @ Ledbulb

    Whats your price then?

    Whats your LED bulb aswell?

    What guarentee do you give?

    Thanks.:)


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    #21
    cram1971
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭cram1971


    Have a look at some of these

    http://www.litehouse.ie/lamps.html

    http://www.aurora.eu.com/ProductPages/ListCategory.aspx?b=5&c=13

    Some of these can be sourced a lot cheaper than the Philips bulbs and the 7.5 watt are excellant give about 400-500 lm depending on colour so v close to Halogen


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    #22
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    Capt'n Midnight-what about service and lifetime?How often you have to change CFL ? I think about 5 times X 2Eur each =10Eur
    good LED= lifetime 40000 or even 50000 hours
    CFL 8000 hours :)

    In shop example light is on for 3000 hours per year so LED will last for about 13 years while in this period you have to change all your CFL's five times

    so savings 31 Eur x 13years= 403 Eur and replacement of 14 CLF x 2Eur x5 =140 Eur total 543 Eur ( if you replace them yourself and if they will be still 2Eur for next 13 years and if prices of electricity will be at the same level as they are now) don't mantion mercury from 70 CFL bulbs.

    And i dont think you can create nice light effect with 14 light sources insted of 50.


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    #23
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    paddy147, if you and your family like them thats fine i said only they are stronger bulbs on market now :) but two years ago why not, (and price for this model of your lovely PHILIPS is fine )


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    #24
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    ledbulb wrote: »
    paddy147, if you and your family like them thats fine i said only they are stronger bulbs on market now :) but two years ago why not, (and price for this model of your lovely PHILIPS is fine )


    So can I have a spec of the GU10 light please,that is the same or similar as the Philips Master 4 watt 2700k 40 degree GU10.

    What guarentee do you give?

    And what price too??

    Thanks.:)


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    #25
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    one moment


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    #26
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    Can't find data sheet for GU10 base but that's the same bulb with differente base. They come with 3 years guarantee.
    boardst.jpg


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    #27
    Phibsboro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭Phibsboro


    I'm fascinated with this thread, came to it via the front page rather than being a follower of the forum.

    I have 7 50w halogen GU10's in-ceiling lamps in my (small!) front room. I love the light they give and love that I can dim them down to change the athmosphere. I am aware though they must be costing me a small fortune to run so I have looked at various points at alternatives. I got a CFL one as a test and it was grand but it didn't dim despite saying it would on the box - it went from full to virtually nothing.

    I have also looked at LED's but some of the pictures/vids available seem to show either a gloomy light or else a perceptible blue tinge.

    Seeing this thread inspired me to look again, one of the sites listed above mentions a dimmable CFL from Megaman. But then I ended up on that product's Amazon page and had a look at the comments - this whole area just seems to be a scam! Is anything other than halogen really suitable as a dimmable in-ceiling light source for a domestic situation?

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B0017KJMKG/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R2Y0ZRWEUC7W1K


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    #28
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    I have found 6W options dimmable GU10
    boards2.jpg
    [IMG]http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/I have found 6W option dimmable GU10[/IMG]


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    #29
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ledbulb wrote: »
    Capt'n Midnight-what about service and lifetime?How often you have to change CFL ? I think about 5 times X 2Eur each =10Eur
    good LED= lifetime 40000 or even 50000 hours
    CFL 8000 hours :)

    In shop example light is on for 3000 hours per year so LED will last for about 13 years while in this period you have to change all your CFL's five times
    <yawn>

    CFL 10,000 hours so only 4 changes. Total cost of lights €112

    Point is that I expect to see LED's replaced by Lasing LED's with up to twice the efficiency within that time frame so you won't get the savings and current LED's will be power wasting devices by then.



    Let me try that again. I think it's crazy to invest in 100's of watts of LED's for general lighting when we know that something twice as efficient is being commercialised. Lasers give off less heat and scale up better than LED's so they may well be cheaper than today's clusters of LED's. CFL's are just a bridging technology to give us light until then.


    BTW the record for a solid state laser is 25KW


    And i dont think you can create nice light effect with 14 light sources insted of 50.
    just exactly which part of niche don't you understand :confused:


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    #30
    ledbulb
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭ledbulb


    we see when they are on the market, maybe you are right, but we don't know when and for how much?


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    #31
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    So how can you reccomend lights that are not even on the market or for sale???
    No price either,even though a price has been asked for.

    I dont understand that and how you can say that they are better than trusted brands that are on the market and in use.

    I dont understand how you can say this???


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