How to be a politician ?

clarbar · 16-08-2012 7:29pm #1

Hi guys just wondering how does one get into politic's and become well part of the dail? I am very interested in joining fine gael or fianna fail , from Limerick so very interested in giving it and the rest of the country a boost. I have been told by many people that I should become one so just interested in how to go about it?

pjmn · 16-08-2012 7:40pm

well do you meet the key requirements?

* can you lie through your teeth consistently and keep a straight face at all times...

* will you be able to say one thing while in opposition and the direct opposite if in Government (and again be able to justify both positions)...

* key one this - can you claim expenses...

* another key one here... are you a regular funeral goer...

* expertise in fixing potholes, broken street lights also a key advantage...

* ability to speak on local, national and international issues (as if the world's leading authority on the particular issue), while not having the foggiest what you are talking about...

with a decent combination of the above you'll be a minister or even Taoiseach in no time...

clarbar · 16-08-2012 7:48pm

pjmn wrote: »

well do you meet the key requirements?

* can you lie through your teeth consistently and keep a straight face at all times...

* will you be able to say one thing while in opposition and the direct opposite if in Government (and again be able to justify both positions)...

* key one this - can you claim expenses...

* another key one here... are you a regular funeral goer...

* expertise in fixing potholes, broken street lights also a key advantage...

* ability to speak on local, national and international issues (as if the world's leading authority on the particular issue), while not having the foggiest what you are talking about...

with a decent combination of the above you'll be a minister or even Taoiseach in no time...

well thank you for the honest requirements of a stereotypical politician , but unfortunately I do not meet the standard's nor will I ever hope to . So for the sake of my thread can I please have serious replies. Thanks

Denerick · 16-08-2012 7:49pm

Why do you want to become a politician? Its either:

A) You want to further your own personal or family interests, or just for the prestige.

You're a local champion and want to 'build the road' in the back arse of nowhere.

C) You're a visionary and believe you can change the country for the better.

In Ireland, those are the three types of politicians. Sadly, 'C' are very rare creatures.

Becoming a member of the Dail requires that you win a seat at an election. You don't need to be a member of a party for that. Unless you've got connections in any of the main parties they are never going to fund your candidacy. The odd independent does get elected to the Dail - they are usually type 'B'.

clarbar · 16-08-2012 8:02pm

C would be the answer here, Im 21 female, mixed race from a regeneration area,never been in trouble, very into politics not the sinn fein type mind you! Have always been on the receiving end of the stick. Have been stereotyped all my life , I have actually helped out with Shannon development a few times with my idea's which have been used, and a volunteer of pieta house . I am just very interested in making a change for the better to start business's going, people back to work and to actually help this country . I was living in the UK for a year and took some things into account that does not get use much here , so no harm in trying .

mikemac1 · 16-08-2012 8:09pm

You must be available at all times

Coming home on a cold dark winters evening you may want to sit by the fire with your husband, glass of wine, forget it

The local busybodies association are having a meeting about a meeting and if you are not there the hungry young politican will be there and take your job

Are you ready to drive around to meetings on dark winters evenings every week? Actually, do you drive? If not, you better get started

Your mobile phone is up on a website and I can call you about anything, anything at all

You mention FF and FG. Fair enough and they can support you, it's difficult for new candidates and they often fail a few times
But the selection committees are ruthless and without connections the parties will not help you at first.

Find a good local independent, they do exist and ask for advice. But probably not in your area and they will rightfully see you as competition

SocSocPol · 16-08-2012 8:18pm

clarbar wrote: »

C would be the answer here, Im 21 female, mixed race from a regeneration area,never been in trouble, very into politics not the sinn fein type mind you! Have always been on the receiving end of the stick. Have been stereotyped all my life , I have actually helped out with Shannon development a few times with my idea's which have been used, and a volunteer of pieta house . I am just very interested in making a change for the better to start business's going, people back to work and to actually help this country . I was living in the UK for a year and took some things into account that does not get use much here , so no harm in trying .

Realistically you need build a name and a team in local politics first, you need to distill your beliefs to a fewvery relavent policies which are both popular and practical, you will never make a difference from inside a party as you will be subject to their policies as opposed to being the master/mistress of your own.
Most of all you need to understand that it is highly unlikely that you will make any real difference in the long term.

Fenian Army · 16-08-2012 8:59pm

Given that you have no political ideology of your own (ie willing to join FF or FG) are just want to be a politician for the sake of it - for a job - I think the country will be better off without another person of that ilk. I believe that being involved in politics should be a means to an end, not the end itself.

As for the establishment parties, FF and FG in particular, forget it. You wont get nominated.

I'd get involved with a small party (ie 2/3/4 in the cumann) at a local level so you will have a good amount of independence (red tape kills good works) but an umbrella organization to help out.

nuac · 16-08-2012 9:16pm

A lot of wisdom in some of the above posts.

It is a terrible life

Get qualified in your chosen area, start working at it, and then go into politics as a subsidiary activity

When you have qualified at something and started work, come on here again for further advice.

Eliot Rosewater · 16-08-2012 10:53pm

clarbar wrote: »

C would be the answer here, Im 21 female, mixed race from a regeneration area,never been in trouble, very into politics not the sinn fein type mind you! Have always been on the receiving end of the stick. Have been stereotyped all my life , I have actually helped out with Shannon development a few times with my idea's which have been used, and a volunteer of pieta house . I am just very interested in making a change for the better to start business's going, people back to work and to actually help this country . I was living in the UK for a year and took some things into account that does not get use much here , so no harm in trying .

Can I ask, do you need to get involved in politics? I'd advise you against getting involved in politics for two reasons.

Being a politician isn't really about making positive change. The best politicians are those that can pander well to their constituents' biases and misconceptions. The best politician will be somewhat aware that the views of the average voter are mistaken, but still promote those views. Ultimately, it's not about what it is right or correct. It's about satisfy the generally uninformed "gut feeling" of the electorate.
I believe that political means and methods are overrated. Often times people outline a problem and then state "the government should do something about it". Why don't those people do something about it? There are other ways to achieve our ideals. Could you become involved in private organizations that promote your ideals? I have absolutely no doubt that devoting your time to such an organization, like, say, Amnesty International, would further your social ideals far more than being involved in Fine Gael or Fianna Fail.

It all depends on what you want to achieve.

OU812 · 16-08-2012 10:58pm

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

Douglas Adams

Maura74 · 17-08-2012 8:18am

clarbar wrote: »

Im 21 female, Have been stereotyped all my life

You are only 21 and it's no age to say that you have been stereotyped ALL your life..........

Why not trained to be a lawyer first and then go into politics

Lantus · 17-08-2012 10:16am

clarbar wrote: »

Hi guys just wondering how does one get into politic's and become well part of the dail? I am very interested in joining fine gael or fianna fail , from Limerick so very interested in giving it and the rest of the country a boost. I have been told by many people that I should become one so just interested in how to go about it?

It's great that you are enthusiastic but by wanting to join an existing party at such an early you will no doubt be indocrinated into their established way of thinking and before long become a carbon copy of every other TD floating around. Policies in parties are decided by the very top tier of the party and no one else has any real input, so you wont be shaping the new world. You will be realising that big business and unions call the shots as they lobby government to get what they want which is profit driven not people driven,

The party system and 2 dominant parties have been in existence over 80 years (in the UK the conservative party has been around almost 300 years) They have become experts at maintaining the status quo.

Politicians have virtually no technical knowledge or problem solving abilities that offer any practical use (other wise over 100 years we would of solved most of our problems as the issues of crime, social injustice and economy are relatively unchanged in that period.) Their willingness to participate and their self confidence is their major selling point. Beyond that you really have to wonder what benefit they offer.

Our democractic system and that in Europe and espeically the USA is no longer fit for purpose and offers no realistic propspect of solution to our problems. We could keep it for another 200 years and I doubt i would deliver what it promises, the system is flawed.

Our concept of democracy is flawed and tainted by 100 years of the rubbish we have been brought up to believe. That we have a choice and that we are free which are told to believe without question.

If our politicians are effectively chosen by selection by the existing political elite and groomed and funded and put forward then in my mind it is nearer to what you might term facism.

My advice would be to read more into the alternatives and think about how we can really change our political system. Dont just get absorbed by the party. It's been doing what it does for a very long time and has become very good at it and the people involved wealthy and influencial.

PRAF · 17-08-2012 10:44am

clarbar wrote: »

Hi guys just wondering how does one get into politic's and become well part of the dail? I am very interested in joining fine gael or fianna fail , from Limerick so very interested in giving it and the rest of the country a boost. I have been told by many people that I should become one so just interested in how to go about it?

As others have said, I wouldn't pin your hopes on becoming a career politician. Probably best to pursue another career, something you are good at and enjoy. However, if you want to get into politics in 15 or 20 years then you will need to start planning now. Why not join a party that has similar ideals to your own (and don't just focus on the big two parties). Without any insider knowledge myself, I'd presume you need to join the party, work your way up, try to get on the ticket for a council seat, serve your time at that level, and eventually look to get on the ticket for the Dail.

Laminations · 17-08-2012 12:10pm

ciarbar, I'd ignore all those telling you not to enter politics, while they are right about the typical politician they are part of the problem with changing politics. How do they expect us to get better representation if they try and convince genuine people not to participate and put themselves forward? Yes politics is dirty, yes its parochial, yes it is about who you know and greasing hands, but with more people like you (and this is why we shouldn't discourage you) it can change. It doesn't have to be that way. I'd agree with others about avoiding a career politician path, keep politics as an interest, join a party, engage in discussion, get involved with advocacy and build a profile for yourself while supporting yourself in a separate (but possibly related) career.

Politics also doesn't have to be a terrible life, at the beck and call of constiuents, you are their representative, not their servant or slave and unless you are in local politics (councils) you shouldn't be at the end of the phone dealing with pot holes and passports...feck it even if you are in the council you have office hours, people need to get used to that and accept being directed to the appropriate port of call.

We need more young voices for change in politics. Fair play.

pjmn · 17-08-2012 7:28pm

clarbar wrote: »

well thank you for the honest requirements of a stereotypical politician , but unfortunately I do not meet the standard's nor will I ever hope to . So for the sake of my thread can I please have serious replies. Thanks

Regretfully my reply to you was serious. Best of luck whatever you choose to do.

Fenian Army · 17-08-2012 8:56pm

The fact that you are a woman is a plus, you'll be pushed front and centre cause there are feck all young women involved in politics.

nuac · 17-08-2012 9:54pm

Laminations wrote: »

ciarbar

Politics also doesn't have to be a terrible life, at the beck and call of constiuents, you are their representative, not their servant or slave and unless you are in local politics (councils) you shouldn't be at the end of the phone dealing with pot holes and passports...feck it even if you are in the council you have office hours, people need to get used to that and accept being directed to the appropriate port of call.

We need more young voices for change in politics. Fair play.

Comment

Sorry, but if you want to get elected and re-elected you will have to canvass. and respond to voters needs, whether they are right or wrong, Personally I knew only two politicans who survived without doing this

John Kelly
- intellectual ability, best Parliamentarian of his time, in a well off Dublin constituency where t here was little or no demand for housing, social welfare etc

Seán Flanagan

Captain of Mayo All Ireland winning teams in 1950 and 1951. In a strong GAA county like Mayo that gave him a status just slightly below God. He was very able, good lawyer, but he was elected and re=elected many times to AN Dáil and Europe without having to do any constituency work, or attend numerous boring meetings

Sounds grand and organised to tell people who approach you that they may see you in your office at certain hours. Life and people are not like that

Otherwise if you want a career in politics you face the hard grind of constituency work - it really is a terrible life

Sierra Oscar · 20-08-2012 1:25am

mikemac1 wrote: »

You mention FF and FG. Fair enough and they can support you, it's difficult for new candidates and they often fail a few times
But the selection committees are ruthless and without connections the parties will not help you at first.

There are no longer selection committees within FF - selection of candidates is done via convention where each member has their own vote to decide who they want to represent them come election day. That is the way conventions have traditionally been done bar one or two exceptions, but with one member one vote the conventions will become far more accessible to perspective candidates. Anyone can put their name forward to contest a convention, so I don't think it is accurate to say that it will be impossible to get onto a ticket for local elections and possibly even the Dáil. If you are able to convince your party colleagues that you are worthy of election then you are on the ticket.

Also, there are quite a lot of young people who are relatively new members of the party who have already become local area representatives on behalf of the party with the intention of running in subsequent elections. Most of those that I know of are not local area representatives because of connections, but rather because they are quite simply hard working individuals who want to better their communities. Indeed some would even argue that being connected to former FF politicians at the moment could be quite a drawback when it comes to a convention given the current political climate! It has probably never been as easy for a young person to get on a FF ticket and with the new gender quota laws and FF's need to bring women into the party then you will see many women being actively encouraged to run for election and be given the necessary support to allow them do so.

poeticseraphim · 20-08-2012 3:33am

Fenian Army wrote: »

The fact that you are a woman is a plus, you'll be pushed front and centre cause there are feck all young women involved in politics.

But the ones that are involved are woeful ..think Joan Burton..:mad:..Mary Hearny.:mad:.and they do get pushed to the front simply because their are no women in politics and the homogenity of Irish politics exposes the cronyism and makes it look regressive...

OP do you have any private sector experience or a degree in political science or something else?

Otherwise if you want a career in politics you face the hard grind of constituency work - it really is a terrible life

Poor overpaid cronies....modern day chimney sweeps..where are our labour laws??:rolleyes:

Permabear · 20-08-2012 12:51pm

This post has been deleted.

Dave! · 20-08-2012 1:07pm

Yah, the fact that you have such a general goal as "get into politics", and you're looking to join either Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil, fills me with a mild sense of dread for the future... Find a specific cause or causes that you're interested in, and things that you would like to change, and see what you can do to affect them. That's something to aspire to.

Lockstep · 20-08-2012 5:54pm

There's a lot of wisdom in this thread.
I've been involved with Irish politics since I was 15 and it's not easy. Being a candidate is even harder. I've never ran for national election (I was elected to my university's student union, that's about it) but have been involved on a lot of election campaigns from local to presidential so hopefully I can shed some light.

As has been said, being a politician isn't an easy job at all. You're expected to be on call 24/7 and will have to deal with a neverending array of cranks and whingers who monopolise your time and leave you very little time for helping out those who genuinely need your help.
There's a movie called In the Loop where a politician is told he needs to meet his constituents and his response is "Oh great, meeting my constituents. It's like being Simon Cowell without being able to say "F*ck off, you're mental" which is a fair analogy. Only a minority of constituents are like this but they will hound you mercilessly and are often the type with nothing better to do.
If you are elected, you will get a decent to excellent wage (depending on your position) and expenses but it takes a very specific type of person to succeed. Due to the way Irish elections are set up, you'll need to be a good local politician which often means benefiting your community at the expense of Ireland as a whole. you'll have little free time and will be scrutinised mercilessly by the media.
Forget national issues, you'll be spending a lot of time dealing with potholes and medical cards which is awful as it encourages politicians to keep the system broken; if John O'Smith TD can get elected by helping get potholes filled, he has no desire to see them get fixed without his help and will probably scuttle attempts to do so.

If you're not already a member of a political party, you'll have a tough sell and if are serious about wanting to be elected, you should start soon. Being elected to a national organisation like FF/FG/Lab/SF will be hard as there is serious competition to be elected. It varies from branch to branch (in my political party, candidates are selected based on a vote by all the party members from that constituency) which requires you to be a good people person/good at getting your name out there/being a shameless self-promoter.
Your best bet is to join ASAP and get heavily involved to show you're capable. However, you really need to decide where your loyalties lie: you might be an old school, centre left republican like my grandad was when he joined FF. FF are no longer like this so it pays to do your research on your potential party.

It'll be a long slog but it can be done although I would echo previous posters that you might be able to do more good by

As an aside, what's your background in terms of work experience/education? If you've a strong background in economics or law for example, it will help. Likewise, if you've a good business background and have created jobs in your area without screwing over your employees you'd have a major advantage.

Laminations · 21-08-2012 6:09pm

Lockstep wrote: »

Due to the way Irish elections are set up, you'll need to be a good local politician which often means benefiting your community at the expense of Ireland as a whole. you'll have little free time and will be scrutinised mercilessly by the media.
Forget national issues, you'll be spending a lot of time dealing with potholes and medical cards which is awful as it encourages politicians to keep the system broken; if John O'Smith TD can get elected by helping get potholes filled, he has no desire to see them get fixed without his help and will probably scuttle attempts to do so.

If you are going to follow advice like this to get into politics then I'd say don't bother. What's the point? Where's the change? New faces but same show. Same shenanigans. Yes there is telling you how things are but that's not how things should be, that requires your vision, your persistence and your persuasion for change.

You can skip party politics initially and push for political reform. Push for separation of local and national politics. Push for a ban on TDs publicly publishing mobile numbers. Push for a restriction on making representations to within office hours. Push for electable and accountable local government who are the only ones who fix potholes etc. push for a ban on the intervention of TDs in public or semi state processes for individual cases (e.g. Passport applications, medical card). Be brazen enough to tell your mental constituents to feck off. Gordon Brown should've confronted that bigot to her face. Enter politics to fix the system, to be a national legislator (if being a TD is what you want). Enter it with youthful naïveté, with fire in your belly, with a desire for change and doing things a better way.

There is really no point in toeing the line to get a job in politics unless it's just the job you are after and not the opportunity to make a difference.

Things don't have to be the way they are. Just because they are like that now doesn't mean they'll always be. The suffragettes, the black civil rights movement, Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, none of these people accepted the status quo. Be brazen. Be bold. Do what you think is right, not what you think will land you the job.

And yes this may sound like a commencement speech at an American graduation but **** it, I just really want change in Irish politics.

Laminations · 21-08-2012 6:23pm

OP without knowing anything more about you and Lockstep other than what you've posted in this thread, I'd vote for you.

Now I know lockstep is decent and have agreed with many points on various threads but someone who is willing to misuse their position (e.g. to fix potholes) in order to play the game and get ahead may misuse their position in other ways when it comes to getting ahead again. don't play to the tune of a broken political system.

nuac · 21-08-2012 9:29pm

Perhaps in a very well healed D4 constituency Laminations advice may work. Rest of the country it won't.

Qualify first in your chosen trade or profession and do some work in the real world. Then think of politics

Lockstep · 21-08-2012 10:14pm

I agree Laminations, it's an awful system. It annoys me that the important issues in a general election are local ones rather than national ones.
It certainly needs reform, but getting elected as a national legislator is a lot harder than being the candidate who'll protect the local hospital and bypass.

I certainly don't agree with the situation I outlined but in my experience, that's the reality of elections in Ireland.

Laminations · 21-08-2012 10:18pm

Lockstep wrote: »

I agree Laminations, it's an awful system. It annoys me that the important issues in a general election are local ones rather than national ones.
It certainly needs reform, but getting elected as a national legislator is a lot harder than being the candidate who'll protect the local hospital and bypass.

I certainly don't agree with the situation I outlined but in my experience, that's the reality of elections in Ireland.

But if you're willing to do something you don't agree with in order to win elections you 'keep the system broken' as you said.

Laminations · 21-08-2012 10:21pm

nuac wrote: »

Perhaps in a very well healed D4 constituency Laminations advice may work. Rest of the country it won't.

Treat the Irish electorate like immature idiots and they'll continue to vote like immature idiots. I'm not in a well healed constituency, Bertie was the cock with a walk here for years.

geneyuss · 21-08-2012 10:25pm

clarbar wrote: »

C would be the answer here, Im 21 female, mixed race from a regeneration area,never been in trouble, very into politics not the sinn fein type mind you! Have always been on the receiving end of the stick. Have been stereotyped all my life , I have actually helped out with Shannon development a few times with my idea's which have been used, and a volunteer of pieta house . I am just very interested in making a change for the better to start business's going, people back to work and to actually help this country . I was living in the UK for a year and took some things into account that does not get use much here , so no harm in trying .

this "sinn fein" type as you put it are usually the more active in the areas you grew up in, and you will need to work on the ground to get your profile raised, in short, you shouldnt really dismiss any party or politician before you even attempt to become one, if everybody thought along those lines would anybody enter politics ?

Laminations · 21-08-2012 10:48pm

Be very careful about what party you join. If you are going to stand for a party make sure you agree with what they stand for.

How to be a politician ?

Comments