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Calorie counts to be added to restaurant food menus

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    #32
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    I don't think restaurants should be made display this, especially since their menu's change regularly. But I'd love to see fast food places have this.


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    #33
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    What overhead is involved? Extra ink to print the calorie count on the menu?

    Let me guess, you'd the first to applaud the first lardo to sue a place because the calorie count wasn't correct.


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    #34
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    c_man wrote: »
    Let me guess, you'd the first to applaud the first lardo to sue a place because the calorie count wasn't correct.

    Please highlight what you would see as the increased overheads due to a restaurant having to show the calorie count of meals.

    Please answer the question, you made a point and I simply trying to get you to expand on it for the sake of the discussion.


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    #35
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    lol, no it wouldn't. It's really easy to work out the calories of any meal. It's even easier if you are building that meal from scratch, as all decent restaurants would. A mate of mine is head chef of a very nice restaurant in Dublin and has described it as an extra 20 minutes work whenever they change the menu.

    That's just the thing... I can work out roughly how many calories a meal I prepare at home contains. I have control over what goes in, and I will have a good estimate of the calorie count.

    However, I have absolutely no idea what some cook or chef puts into a meal I eat in a restaurant. As a vegetarian, I've seen dishes containing fish and chicken labeled as "vegetarian option".
    I've had salads that were little more than a few bits of unidentifiable vegetable clinging on for dear life on a huge lump of mayonnaise.
    I've had baked potatoes drowning in butter.

    I would be generally in favour of better descriptions of restaurant dishes and better labeling regarding vegetarian/ceoliac/possible allergens, and I am definitely in favour of giving a calorie count.

    The argument about it "being a treat" is rather silly. They do display the price, does that put you off? Then why would the calorie count put you off?


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    #36
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Please highlight what you would see as the increased overheads due to a restaurant having to show the calorie count of meals.

    Please answer the question, you made a point and I simply trying to get you to expand on it for the sake of the discussion.
    The calculation of calories for a start, fot instance a baked potato, calories depend on particular potato type (rooster,golden wonder etc) then size or weight of potato.
    Similarly exactly calculating the calories in any dish, a tad more flour means more calories.
    Can you tell me how many calories are in a slice of apple pie? If the apples were relativley sweet less sugar would have been added , if they were quite sharp more would be needed, so it is nigh on impossible to give a calorie count and very expensive to calculate.


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    #37
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,284 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Isn't 'obesity epidemic' a bit alarmist?

    I wonder if it's all as serious as it's made out to be.


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    #38
    Stiffler2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    Dave! wrote: »
    I didn't see any mention of this on Boards yet, though it's been in the news the last couple of days... What do we think of this initiative?

    It presents a few logistical problems for restaurants that e.g. decide their menus on the morning, depending on the fresh ingredients they get. It makes a bit more sense when it's in the likes of chippers and other fast-food places, although I'm not sure the obese people are the ones who would pay any attention to the calories -- it'd be the people who are health-conscious already. It might make it easier for these people to monitor their intake though.

    But for some of the upmarket restaurants, how often would a person go to one of these? Once or twice a month? They're not contributing much to obesity, it's the daily meals that make the difference.

    I think James needs to loose a bit of weight first before he can comment on anyone, although he's not as fat as Harney but still the health minister.

    i am confused


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    #39
    mitosis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭mitosis


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Seems a bit stupid to me. It's all well and good including calorie counts on the likes of McDonalds menus, which are rarely changed.. but it would be very difficult for a restaurant that alters its menu every few days or weeks.

    Making it even more difficult for businesses to operate at a time when many are already struggling to do so.. Well played Ireland

    This. I cannot see the chef spending Tuesday working out the calorific content of next week's menu. It's a horrendous idea. If you want to fight obesity start by encouraging exercise and stopping the PC crap that is "Plus size", "curvy" thus letting shame correct the rest.


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    #40
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    They should get Weightwatchers to count them!

    It seems a decent idea for the likes of McDonalds but it seems a bit much for restaurants.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #41
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Please highlight what you would see as the increased overheads due to a restaurant having to show the calorie count of meals.

    The increased overheads are exactly that. calculating and showing the calorie counts, ensuring they're up to date etc. Needless overheads. You seem to know that its not much extra work, I dunno, but it's just another layer of bureaucracy.

    I don't have a problem with that really, but I do think it's nonsense to have it mandated. As happens now, you can opt to take your custom to the many places that do this daily. What's the problem with that?


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    #42
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    it'll prob make this 'epidemic' worse anyhow
    -the obese customers will select the high calorie stuff they enjoy
    -and the anorexics will choose the low calorie stuff they want


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    #43
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    The calculation of calories for a start, fot instance a baked potato, calories depend on particular potato type (rooster,golden wonder etc) then size or weight of potato.
    Similarly exactly calculating the calories in any dish, a tad more flour means more calories.
    Can you tell me how many calories are in a slice of apple pie? If the apples were relativley sweet less sugar would have been added , if they were quite sharp more would be needed, so it is nigh on impossible to give a calorie count and very expensive to calculate.

    Expensive to calculate? Really? How exactly do you figure that one? The first thing I would do when I was a personal trainer was to sit down and get someone to tell me what they ate daily, then 10 minutes later I would be able to tell them how many calories they had been eating.

    You are aware that there are enormous free resources on the internet that give calories by weight of pretty much every available food?

    In all honesty, I think all the people giving out about this are really reaching with the "cost" argument.

    You are dreaming with your "very expensive to calculate" thing. You'd be better off saying "time wise, the chef will need to calculate it all, so you have the cost of his wages" or something like that.

    As it is, you are trying to argue that doing a bit of maths costs money, simply the process?


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    #44
    Seaneh
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 18,300 ✭✭✭✭Seaneh


    Having worked in the catering industry for several years I can safely say that any chef who cannot estimate the calorie content of a dish in less than 5 minutes doesn't deserve to have a job.


    Every chef who runs a kitchen has to cost their food anyway, so they know, on average, the quantities of ingredients that do into each dish, they have to or else they wouldn't be able to price them.
    They know how much dairy there is in their mashed spuds, in their sauces etc, they know how much cheese when into their gratan and how big each portion should be.

    It's easy work and doesn't create any additional cost to a restaurant, just means lazy head chefs will actually have to do a bit of ****ing work for once (not all head chefs are lazy, just most of them).


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    #45
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Cheap calculator/pen and paper and a spare half hour would be all that is needed for a restaurant to do this.

    So the overheads would be negligible.


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    #46
    Dr.Silly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Dr.Silly


    honest to god, this is such bullsh1t it's not even funny.

    Minister for Health .. this is the best you could come up with ?

    How about School Canteens from creches to secondary schools .. oh no .. wait .. Jamie Oliver will look after that.

    There's so many fcuked up things, and the best we can do is label a fcuking menu with calories.

    I swear to God, I can't wait to get the hell out of this country


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    #47
    JohnMarston
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,881 ✭✭✭JohnMarston


    Is it really that difficult for people to discern that something like potatoes and fish with a side salad = good for calories conscious and rashers, fried tomatoes,fried eggs with chips = not so good ?


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    #48
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    My name is URL wrote: »
    In that case, why can't people just inform themselves before eating out or ordering a meal.
    Because that's not possible. The restaurant presents you with a finished meal, not with a list of ingredients. Seemingly small and healthy dishes can have twice the calories of larger ones.
    The whole point is to allow consumers to inform themselves.
    Others shouldn't be punished for their ignorance and/or sheer laziness.
    Who's being punished? The cost to the restaurant is negligible. Other consumers can just ignore the calorie figure if it's of no concern to them. Who's losing out here?
    The state shouldn't be charged with holding your hand through life.. this kind of thing erodes personal responsibility rather than enhance it.
    On the latter point, I disagree entirely. This kind of thing encourages personal responsibility by allowing someone to make an informed choice rather than "not think about it" and splurge.
    On the former point, if the state shouldn't be charged with holding one's hand, then logically the state should distance itself from any kind of personal intervention such as healthcare, education, pensions, and so forth. Every man for himself, is what you're saying.

    When the state is providing things like healthcare, then the state not only has a right, but a duty to use legislation to attempt to create improvements in the day-to-day health of its citizens. We don't just pay taxes to fix people when they break, we pay taxes to try and stop people from getting broken in the first place.


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    #49
    [Diabolical]
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭[Diabolical]


    I can see the obvious benefits from it - people will be more aware of what they're eating, making it easier to monitor their calories intake and maintain a healthy lifestyle, well that's what they hope anyway. The obvious downside being that obese people will probably completely ignore it anyway. They're obese from habit and terrible food, I doubt making them aware that their burger is 1000 calories will make a difference, of course they know the burger is bad for them, it's easier to live in denial. Saying that, maybe knowing for definite the calorie count and not being able to hide from the truth might shock some into action, I doubt it though.

    I was listening to a bit on the news about it, and they were saying it will cost restaurants around €5,000 to calculate the calories, change the menus, boards etc. which is extortionate if it's a small family run restaurant, which the majority are. The worst restaurants such as KFC and McDonalds already have their calories up and to ask restaurants that changes their menus around every few days to do this is contemptible. Obesity is becoming an epidemic in this country, I agree, and it's nice to see some initiative I guess, but I think they're going about it the wrong way. Education is what obese people need, who's to say that the majority of obese people even know what their recommended daily intake should be? Or how much exercise they need to be doing? Telling them how many calories are in the one meal they eat in a restaurant maybe a few times a week or less just seems nonsensical and won't have any impact in the bigger picture of their lives. It's not fair to put the responsibility on the restaurants for the lifestyle choices of a few, it's just another act of the nanny state.

    It's so poignantly ironic too, coming from the obese James O'Reilly.


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    #50
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    JohnMarston wrote: »
    Is it really that difficult for people to discern that something like potatoes and fish with a side salad = good for calories conscious and rashers, fried tomatoes,fried eggs with chips = not so good ?

    What about roast turnip in a boudegie sauce compared to a rutledge of squillion dans la pepperton bouvoir ?

    Fact is most people have no idea what restaurants put into sauces and the preparation of food. Its not as simple as spuds = this and sausage = that. I'll have the spud. Whats in the mash ? Butter ? Cream ? You dont know.


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    #51
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    If they must introduce stupid regulations then maybe they should stipulate that restaurants have to have over a certain number of seats or financial turn-over so that small and start-up businesses don't have to waste their time with it.

    The people that don't give a **** about their weight won't read the calorie count thing anyway - they'll probably just butter it and eat it it.


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    #52
    Dr.Silly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Dr.Silly


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If they must introduce stupid regulations then maybe they should stipulate that restaurants have to have over a certain number of seats or financial turn-over so that small and start-up businesses don't have to waste their time with it.

    The people that don't give a **** about their weight won't read the calorie count thing anyway - they'll probably just butter it and eat it it.

    A freaking calorie count isn't going to tell you either !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If someone is that fussy about what's in their food when they go out for dinner, ask the waiter !!, or stay at home with your Rivita and do some push ups.


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    #53
    Dr.Silly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭Dr.Silly


    such fckin tripe and codology I haven't come across before !


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    #54
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    If they must introduce stupid regulations then maybe they should stipulate that restaurants have to have over a certain number of seats or financial turn-over so that small and start-up businesses don't have to waste their time with it.

    The people that don't give a **** about their weight won't read the calorie count thing anyway - they'll probably just butter it and eat it it.

    I'd imagine the people happiest about this are those who are health conscious. I give a shít about my weight and try to go for a healthy option when eating out but the fact is thats its impossible to know whats healthy on a menu without knowing what goes into making it.

    You go to McDonalds and you can see just how bad the burger is for ya then go to a restaurant and have no idea how good the salad is. Whats the point in knowing whats bad for ya when you cant find the stuff thats good for ya ?


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    #55
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    The calculation of calories for a start, fot instance a baked potato, calories depend on particular potato type (rooster,golden wonder etc) then size or weight of potato.
    Similarly exactly calculating the calories in any dish, a tad more flour means more calories. Can you tell me how many calories are in a slice of apple pie? If the apples were relativley sweet less sugar would have been added , if they were quite sharp more would be needed, so it is nigh on impossible to give a calorie count and very expensive to calculate.

    Seeing as how we're almost all ok with fast food restaurants showing their calorie information we'll ignore that for now. So what you are left with is people taking about decent restaurants/bistros etc. Now keeping that in mind have you ever worked in a professional kitchen? They have the recipes worked out in advance, the ingredients ready, the exact amounts for each dish agreed etc etc. You do not make each apple tart individually. A chef will know x number of apple tarts, means x amount of flour, x of sugar, x of butter etc. There will be a standard amount. Any variation should be negligible seasoning etc. It would be very simple to have an estimated calorie count in advance


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    #56
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    prinz wrote: »
    Seeing as how we're almost all ok with fast food restaurants showing their calorie information we'll ignore that for now. So what you are left with is people taking about decent restaurants/bistros etc. Now keeping that in mind have you ever worked in a professional kitchen? They have the recipes worked out in advance, the ingredients ready, the exact amounts for each dish agreed etc etc. You do not make each apple tart individually. A chef will know x number of apple tarts, means x amount of flour, x of sugar, x of butter etc. There will be a standard amount. Any variation should be negligible seasoning etc. It would be very simple to have an estimated calorie count in advance
    Actually I have worked as a chef both here and abroad, I have also part owned and managed a restaurant and the part of your post that I have highlighted is utter rubbish.
    Ingredient quantities can vary greatly because of a variety of factors. Are you seriosly suggesting that every time a chef makes a pot of mashed potatoes he/she should calcualate the weight of potatoes used then calculate their probable calorific content based upon which variety they are and how old they are (starch content being different in each variety and changing over time as they are stored), the much butter, cream etc he has added, then weigh each portion exactly as he /she serves them so that each has the specified calorie count?


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    #57
    Pedant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    There ain't no need for a calorie count,
    Just don't eat sweets 'n' chocolate 'n' grease.
    And don't be snackin' and all day 'laxing,
    'Cause you'll just get obese.

    Word.


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    #58
    flutterflye
    Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    It's stupid.
    Just adding to the food obsession so many people have.
    Calorie counting is hardly a healthy way of thinking about food.
    Just use your head - eat healthily, eat decent portion sizes, and reduce the cakes and pies - that added with regular exercise and by George you've got it!
    Bloody calorie counting nonsense annoys me.


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    #59
    prinz
    Registered Users Posts: 14,598 ✭✭✭✭prinz


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    Actually I have worked as a chef both here and abroad, I have also part owned and managed a restaurant and the part of your post that I have highlighted is utter rubbish.

    I don't know about you chef, but when I was watching a chef at work, if two people ordered the same meal, they got the same meal. If they were serving apple tart then every apple tart ready for service was pretty much identical. They didn't make each one individually and throw in a tad more of this, and a touch more of that as they went along with each separate tart. The food was consistent.

    Then again I wasn't working in a kitchen dishing up mashed spud.


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    #60
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    flutterflye wrote: »
    It's stupid.
    Just adding to the food obsession so many people have.
    Calorie counting is hardly a healthy way of thinking about food.
    Just use your head - eat healthily, eat decent portion sizes, and reduce the cakes and pies - that added with regular exercise and by George you've got it!
    Bloody calorie counting nonsense annoys me.

    And how do you know if a meal is healthy if you've got no idea what went in it when it was being cooked?


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    #61
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    Actually I have worked as a chef both here and abroad, I have also part owned and managed a restaurant and the part of your post that I have highlighted is utter rubbish.
    Ingredient quantities can vary greatly because of a variety of factors. Are you seriosly suggesting that every time a chef makes a pot of mashed potatoes he/she should calcualate the weight of potatoes used then calculate their probable calorific content based upon which variety they are and how old they are (starch content being different in each variety and changing over time as they are stored), the much butter, cream etc he has added, then weigh each portion exactly as he /she serves them so that each has the specified calorie count?

    Are we talking whole calories now, or have we moved into fractions?
    I've tried and find information on calorie differences between different kinds of potatoes, and the most one web page gave me was a difference of 3 calories between 1 oz of steamed white potato and steamed new potato.


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