Ongoing religious scandals

joseph brand · 13-02-2012 1:01am

robindch wrote: »

Lawyers for abuse victims in Milwaukee claim around 8,000 previously unreported cases of child-abuse:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/02/10/8000-new-instances-of-child-sexual-abuse-alleged-in-milwaukee-archdiocese/

Lawyers for the church are arguing that it's too long since the majority of the alleged crimes took place and that the cases should therefore be thrown out of court.

Nigel Tufnel: "Authorities said... best leave it... unsolved".

robindch · 13-02-2012 4:18pm

Lawyer claims that 200 suspect priests are living in California.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/12/10386205-200-priests-suspected-of-abuse-living-in-california-victims-lawyer-says

dmw07 · 13-02-2012 4:29pm

robindch wrote: »

Lawyer claims that 200 suspect priests are living in California.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/12/10386205-200-priests-suspected-of-abuse-living-in-california-victims-lawyer-says

“He forced me to masturbate while he took pictures of me,” said Vega, who believes that the public is often too squeamish to recognize what child molestation actually entails – and thus not properly outraged by it."

I often ponder that last line. It can't be that these religious people simple ignore the atrocities. It's too widespread now for brushing it under the carpet. The fact that it is called molestation, for me does not help. The word doesn't have an impact on most people because they really don't know what it is. It's like bubble wrapped rape for them. Doesn't seem so bad to them perhaps.

Child rape. Called what it is seems to have the desired effect in conversation i find. Either that or the religious people i say it to have red faces due to high blood pressure.

joseph brand · 15-02-2012 7:41pm

dmw07 wrote: »

“He forced me to masturbate while he took pictures of me,” said Vega, who believes that the public is often too squeamish to recognize what child molestation actually entails – and thus not properly outraged by it."

I often ponder that last line. It can't be that these religious people simple ignore the atrocities. It's too widespread now for brushing it under the carpet. The fact that it is called molestation, for me does not help. The word doesn't have an impact on most people because they really don't know what it is. It's like bubble wrapped rape for them. Doesn't seem so bad to them perhaps.

Child rape. Called what it is seems to have the desired effect in conversation i find. Either that or the religious people i say it to have red faces due to high blood pressure.

I remember Gerry Ryan talking about the child abuse caused by the church here, and the way the oul biddies said that Fr so-and-so was just 'fiddlin' the boys. "Leave him alone". Absolute morons suffering dementia.

Gerry was the first person I've heard, on tv or radio, displaying anger towards the use of the word 'fiddlin', instead of what it really is. Using a less offensive word to make light of what happened is both underhanded and ignorant.
It's not fiddlin, it's child anal rape, blowjobs off young boys and whatever other extremely depraved sh!t the church wants us all to just forget about. Makes my blood boil. :mad::mad:

One need only read a handful of the depraved child abuse cases and subsequent cover ups by the church to know there is no god. All we know, in relation to the church's systemic raping of the innocent is still just the 'tip of the iceberg'.

dmw07 · 15-02-2012 9:09pm

joseph brand wrote: »

Using a less offensive word to make light of what happened is both underhanded and ignorant.

I'm not sure if it's common in other countries but it's very Irish to down play things, for fear of actually talking about them and calling them what they are. Perhaps it's a lack of articulation or inability to deal with emotional realities.

Calling wwII the emergency springs to mind. We had internal issues but it was called World war two. Surely Ireland was part of the world then...

joseph brand · 16-02-2012 12:44am

dmw07 wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's common in other countries but it's very Irish to down play things, for fear of actually talking about them and calling them what they are. Perhaps it's a lack of articulation or inability to deal with emotional realities.

Calling wwII the emergency springs to mind. We had internal issues but it was called World war two. Surely Ireland was part of the world then...

I don't think it's Irish. But you're probably right about the aspect of fear. Perhaps it's similar to Stockholm Syndrome. A lot of these oul biddies* who support paedo priests probably can't believe their infallible leaders were actually the lowest form of humanity. They always come out with the usual "Oh, he was such a nice man, this is such a shock". They just can't deal with the facts, so they try to make light of it, so they may be able to drag themselves to the next mass, like they have done for 80 years.

Old habits n' all.

* It does seem to be mainly old females

Galvasean · 16-02-2012 2:39am

joseph brand wrote: »

I remember Gerry Ryan talking about the child abuse caused by the church here, and the way the oul biddies said that Fr so-and-so was just 'fiddlin' the boys. "Leave him alone". Absolute morons suffering dementia.

Gerry was the first person I've heard, on tv or radio, displaying anger towards the use of the word 'fiddlin', instead of what it really is. Using a less offensive word to make light of what happened is both underhanded and ignorant.
It's not fiddlin, it's child anal rape, blowjobs off young boys and whatever other extremely depraved sh!t the church wants us all to just forget about. Makes my blood boil. :mad::mad:

And yet if you use the proper terminology you get accused of using 'inflammatory language'.

tricky D · 17-02-2012 1:58pm

More dishonest bullshit demonstrating the inability to 'get it':

http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224311917861

Omitting abuse victims from symposium

Sir, – It is not surprising that no Irish victim of institutional abuse was invited to the Vatican’s “Towards Healing and Renewal” symposium in Rome last week. Instead, it was an Irish victim of clerical abuse who was invited.

The head of the organising committee, Fr Hans Zollner said: “It is very difficult to find people who are able and willing to speak in public of their pain and experience”. How can he say that when no Irish victim or survivor of institutional abuse, to the best of our knowledge, was asked?

There are two reasons for this omission. First, the symposium was not prepared for the world to know of the physical, sexual and emotional abuse by religious nuns, brothers and priests in state-funded institutions perpetrated on the most vulnerable children who in most cases had no parents to turn to.

Second, many victims of institutional abuse, contrary to what Fr Zollner said, are capable and eloquent to speak for themselves and would not be conditioned to speak at the symposium under Rome Rule.

It is hardly surprising that those of us who wrote to Rome seeking a meeting with Pope Benedict following the Ryan Commission report, did not receive even the courtesy of a response. It is apparent that the church as a whole does not wish to acknowledge the systemic widescale abuse that was inflicted in institutions and wishes to instead to confine its atonement to the victims of individual clerical abusers. – Yours, etc,

CHRISTINE BUCKLEY & CARMEL MCDONNELL-BYRNE, Directors & Co-founders,

Aislinn Education Support Centre for Survivors of Institutional Abuse,

Off Swifts Row,

Dublin 1

robindch · 20-02-2012 12:22am

Relatively highly-placed catholics estimate that around 100,000 kids were abused by catholic priests:

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/vatican-abuse-summit-22-billion-and-100000-victims-us-alone

And a psychologist who's also catholic priests says that 95% of allegations are "well-founded":

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/08/world/europe/vatican-urged-to-give-priority-to-abuse-victims.html?_r=1

Adamas · 20-02-2012 12:46am

dmw07 wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's common in other countries but it's very Irish to down play things, for fear of actually talking about them and calling them what they are. Perhaps it's a lack of articulation or inability to deal with emotional realities.

We are far from being inarticulate, as you can't shut the feckers up once they get going.
It's the ability to avoid any reality we don't want to see, plain and simple. Close your eyes now, and bow your head and pray....connecting to belief-server No 1....aah...no more bad things to see...see no evil, hear no evil...poof...it's all gone away (for now).

Delirium · 08-03-2012 9:35pm

An Irish nun is to appear before a special sitting of the country’s Circuit Court on 87 charges of the sexual abuse of primary school girls.

Galvasean · 09-03-2012 1:42am

koth wrote: »

An Irish nun is to appear before a special sitting of the country’s Circuit Court on 87 charges of the sexual abuse of primary school girls.

"Her case, thought to be the first of its kind in Ireland, "

In what way is it the first of its kind does anyone know?

Penn · 09-03-2012 10:06am

Galvasean wrote: »

"Her case, thought to be the first of its kind in Ireland, "

In what way is it the first of its kind does anyone know?

Maybe it's because she's a nun and the abuse was sexually related, rather than the physical abuse so many suffered. Just my guess though. I was going to check Google to see what I could find, but I'm at work and really don't want to google "Nun sexual abuse" on this computer.

Delirium · 09-03-2012 10:14am

Penn wrote: »

Maybe it's because she's a nun and the abuse was sexually related, rather than the physical abuse so many suffered. Just my guess though. I was going to check Google to see what I could find, but I'm at work and really don't want to google "Nun sexual abuse" on this computer.

I would think that you're right about it being a nun sexually abusing kids. Any of the articles I found don't explain what is meant by "first case of this kind", so I presume it's as you have speculated.

MrPudding · 09-03-2012 10:28am

koth wrote: »

I would think that you're right about it being a nun sexually abusing kids. Any of the articles I found don't explain what is meant by "first case of this kind", so I presume it's as you have speculated.

Do we know when the abuse took place?

MrP

Delirium · 09-03-2012 10:32am

MrPudding wrote: »

Do we know when the abuse took place?

MrP

No, but the nun isn't being named to protect her victims identities. It's my understanding that the courts only do that if the victim is a minor, but I'm open to correction.

If I'm right, that would mean it happened in the last 10-20 years.

robindch · 09-03-2012 11:01am

Seven more reports on clerical abuse due later in the year:

http://www.thejournal.ie/bishops-told-seven-more-abuse-reviews-will-be-complete-by-june-376620-Mar2012/

Galvasean · 09-03-2012 5:00pm

David Quinn reminds us that most of the abuse cases coming to light today happened ages ago.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/david-quinn-the-vast-majority-of-abuse-allegations-received-today-relate-to-incidents-that-date-back-at-least-10-years-usually-more-3044968.html

sample quote:
"the scandals aren't even remotely as bad as they were and the church in general has in place what is probably the best child-protection system in the country.

Obviously Cloyne diocese was an exception to that and other exceptions may be found."

Delirium · 09-03-2012 5:04pm

Galvasean wrote: »

sample quote:
"the scandals aren't even remotely as bad as they were and the church in general has in place what is probably the best child-protection system in the country.

Obviously Cloyne diocese was an exception to that and other exceptions may be found."

Amazing that he'd commit such a awful phrase to paper where he is discussing child abuse.

Galvasean · 09-03-2012 5:06pm

I know he's the RCC apologist extraordinaire, but I found today's piece to really take the biscuit in terms of bad taste.

robindch · 09-03-2012 11:58pm

Mr Quinn wrote:

The report about Tuam archdiocese says of Michael Neary that since his installation as archbishop "all allegations of child abuse have been passed to An Garda Siochana" and that he has met allegations with "a steadily serious approach". It has similar praise for Bishop Leo O'Reilly, of whom it states: "The overall view of current practice is that it is of a consistently high standard ... to a significant extent, this is seen as a consequence of the personal commitment and diligence of Bishop O'Reilly."

Two of the nation's twenty-six bishops have passed on all allegations of clerical child-abuse to the police?

Ah, sure things must be grand then, David, eh?

eoin5 · 10-03-2012 12:03am

koth wrote: »

An Irish nun is to appear before a special sitting of the country’s Circuit Court on 87 charges of the sexual abuse of primary school girls.

87 counts, staggering :mad:

Delirium · 13-03-2012 2:37pm

Church Puts Legal Pressure on Abuse Victims’ Group (US)

From linked article

Turning the tables on an advocacy group that has long supported victims of pedophile priests, lawyers for the Roman Catholic Church and priests accused of sexual abuse in two Missouri cases have gone to court to compel the group to disclose more than two decades of e-mails that could include correspondence with victims, lawyers, whistle-blowers, witnesses, the police, prosecutors and journalists.

ISAW · 20-03-2012 10:34am

eoin5 wrote: »

87 counts, staggering :mad:

Terrible if true. Completely unjustifiable for anyone in a responsible position.

In comparison

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19288057/ns/world_news-europe/t/britain-us-break-online-pedophile-ring/#.T2hM09mvNEM
700 suspects
87000 images

http://mariecristbooks.blogspot.com/2011/08/huge-international-pedophile-ring.html
670 suspects. They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported
One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/pedophile-trios-sentences-revised-20120309-1unr2.html
nine offenders. A total of 2000 pages of chat logs were uncovered, as well as 14,000 indecent images of children and 300 videos of children being abused.

Delirium · 20-03-2012 10:46am

Are you honestly posting to say, "well the church isn't as bad as this lot"?

Ellis Dee · 20-03-2012 10:54am

Just when you think you've heard it all (well most of it anyway) along comes this news item:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/netherlands/9153676/Dutch-Roman-Catholic-Church-castrated-at-least-10-boys.html

Note the "at least" in the headline telling that the Dutch church castrated boys.

This news item is shocking enough to have made it into the Daily Torygraph, which is nowadays a very Catholic paper.

Sickening, but one can't help wondering why, if the Catholic clergy are really serious about celibacy, they don't have themselves castrated prior to their ordination. After all, if they lived by their own rules, they wouldn't need those appendages anyway.:rolleyes:

joseph brand · 20-03-2012 10:54am

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0320/abuse.html

It was compiled following visits to Ireland by teams of Vatican-appointed foreign church leaders.

What is the point of this report if we have already had the Ryan and the Murphy reports? Were they not sufficient?

Will this report be biased? Wasn't the church less than helpful in relation to the abuse cases?

Thoughts please?

Penn · 20-03-2012 10:55am

ISAW wrote: »

Terrible if true. Completely unjustifiable for anyone in a responsible position.

In comparison

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19288057/ns/world_news-europe/t/britain-us-break-online-pedophile-ring/#.T2hM09mvNEM
700 suspects
87000 images

http://mariecristbooks.blogspot.com/2011/08/huge-international-pedophile-ring.html
670 suspects. They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported
One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/pedophile-trios-sentences-revised-20120309-1unr2.html
nine offenders. A total of 2000 pages of chat logs were uncovered, as well as 14,000 indecent images of children and 300 videos of children being abused.

Ongoing religious scandals, ISAW

Yes, obviously priests and nuns aren't the only people in the world who sexually abuse children, and they're not even the worst ones in the world, but it's still no excuse. Priests and Nuns are given a level of trust incomparable to others. They are supposed to be held to a higher moral standard than most given their association with a religious organisation which holds itself up as the representation of morality.

dmw07 · 20-03-2012 10:56am

ISAW wrote: »

Terrible if true. Completely unjustifiable for anyone in a responsible position.

In comparison

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19288057/ns/world_news-europe/t/britain-us-break-online-pedophile-ring/#.T2hM09mvNEM
700 suspects
87000 images

http://mariecristbooks.blogspot.com/2011/08/huge-international-pedophile-ring.html
670 suspects. They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported
One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/pedophile-trios-sentences-revised-20120309-1unr2.html
nine offenders. A total of 2000 pages of chat logs were uncovered, as well as 14,000 indecent images of children and 300 videos of children being abused.

Sure these mere subordinate professions are not guided by the almighty power of Allah nor Thor. :rolleyes:

Not being religious, I'm just amazed that i was able to get into work today without any guidance.

joseph brand · 20-03-2012 11:06am

ISAW wrote: »

Terrible if true. Completely unjustifiable for anyone in a responsible position.

In comparison

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19288057/ns/world_news-europe/t/britain-us-break-online-pedophile-ring/#.T2hM09mvNEM
700 suspects
87000 images

http://mariecristbooks.blogspot.com/2011/08/huge-international-pedophile-ring.html
670 suspects. They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported
One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/pedophile-trios-sentences-revised-20120309-1unr2.html
nine offenders. A total of 2000 pages of chat logs were uncovered, as well as 14,000 indecent images of children and 300 videos of children being abused.

Typical christian response.

The main difference being that the church acts like an International Paedophile Ring. Even the current pope is accused of signing papers to move a scumbag priest from one church to another so as to hide him. They all knew what was going on.

Of course there are dirty paedos outside the church, but they are usually working alone. Except in cases of paedo rings. None of which are as massive as the RCC paedo ring.

Ongoing religious scandals

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