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ACTA - International SOPA, Ireland & EU signed 26th Jan

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  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭timbyr


    I'd like TDs to ensure that the following is taken in account when considering changes to copyright law and the internet.

    Charleton judgement is based on EMI provided figures which should be treated as highly suspect.
    Various studies have been made on this and figures produced repeatedly by the MIAA and RIAA have been found to be seriously lacking in regards to methodology and proof.
    The Swiss government has been convinced that piracy does not reduce sales and may have a positive benefit as there is strong correlation between frequent "pirates" and increased purchasing.
    SOPA, Internet regulation, and the economics of piracy
    Swiss Govt: Downloading Movies and Music Will Stay Legal

    The proposed solutions in the Judgement are based on the use of non-encrypted protocols and deep packet inspection to identify infringing materials in P2P traffic. These same methods will not work with an encrypted protocol. If these were enacted piracy methods would shift, thus pushing an unneeded expense on to ISPs and their customers.

    The harvesting of IPs by unregulated third parties is a questionable act by itself and has been disallowed in Swiss law.

    The impact of the injunction against MegaUpload has already seen legitimate cyberlockers reduced their exposure at a negative cost to themselves. This effect could be compounded by the introduction of legislation that make such service providers liable for their content. Where the options are to incur costs to try and tackle copyright infringement on their services (which I believe in many cases to be a futile effort) or close that service in the countries affected by legislation like this.
    This can cause serious issues to start ups and innovative businesses which can not afford to implement such measures and make larger established companies question existing investments like Google and Amazon who maintain data centres and hosting services in Ireland.

    There is also the findings of the OSCE to consider about filtering systems. http://www.osce.org/home/80718

    The rulings of the ECJ in a case similar to EMI v UPC runs almost counter to Judge Charletons proposed solutions of general monitoring.
    ECJ Scarlett vs SABAM

    There is plenty more especially in regards to individual privacy, right to free access of information, etc. And I could probably articulate these better.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭wiseguy


    VinLieger wrote: »
    None of my local tds offices had a clue what i was talking about, and 2 of them are gonna be calling me back to find out what the hell is going on.

    Not surprised this whole thing is surrounded by secrecy and was going to get rammed thru quickly without discussion in Dail. But that strategy backfired.

    Point them to
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0124/breaking32.html?via=mr
    and
    http://www.thejournal.ie/sherlock-open-to-dail-debate-on-plans-for-online-piracy-law-337005-Jan2012/

    I left my details with Sean Sherlock's office, apparently they are quite busy today with this issue alone. Tho' its unlikely he rings back since I am not in Cork, I have some uncomfortable questions for him regarding his "something has to be done" attitude. This whole episode stinks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,780 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    wiseguy wrote: »
    Not surprised this whole thing is surrounded by secrecy and was going to get rammed thru quickly without discussion in Dail. But that strategy backfired.

    Point them to
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0124/breaking32.html?via=mr
    and
    http://www.thejournal.ie/sherlock-open-to-dail-debate-on-plans-for-online-piracy-law-337005-Jan2012/

    I left my details with Sean Sherlock's office, apparently they are quite busy today with this issue alone. Tho' its unlikely he rings back since I am not in Cork, I have some uncomfortable questions for him regarding his "something has to be done" attitude. This whole episode stinks.

    Im also going to point out how much of a joke it is that this issue is being done through the Dail by people who have no idea how the technology works and the ultimate ramifications of this law, and that they havent even bothered consulting any experts or companies that this might affect


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭wiseguy


    Use an analogy, these people dont understand how internet works :)

    lets see:
    "Imagine cars on a motorway such as M6, where each car is stopped and searched by Gardai in order to find the one in a few thousand that may have drugs in it, tho of course the real drug dealers in meantime start using back-roads, while large hauliers such as Google and Facebook who have thousands of employees (and related small companies) get pissed of about being harrased by Gardai for going around their business...."

    something like that


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭wiseguy


    http://www.thejournal.ie/in-full-sean-sherlocks-full-briefing-note-on-copyright-protection-337367-Jan2012/?utm_source=shortlink

    http://www.stephendonnelly.ie/from-the-chamber/questions-the-sopa-legislation/

    They are trying to make it out that the EU is forcing them to do this, interesting the mention of blocking sites and 3 strikes bull****.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    From gavmcg92 on after hours thread:
    Ireland and EU to sign controversial ACTA treaty tomorrow

    IRELAND IS TO sign a controversial international agreement tomorrow which promises a major international crackdown on the trade of counterfeit goods – and illegal internet filesharing.

    Irish representatives will sign the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) at a ceremony tomorrow – as will representatives from each of the other 26 European Union member states, and the EU itself.

    Once the agreement is signed, it can then be formally ratified and adopted into law once it has been cleared by the European Parliament. The treaty will be signed tomorrow in Tokyo by Ireland’s ambassador to Japan, John Neary.

    Although the treaty is primarily aimed at stopping the trade of counterfeited physical goods, it contains provisions which demand that participating countries offer equal protection and enforcement procedures against digital copyright infringement.

    The deal – which is unrelated to the controversial ‘Irish SOPA’ legislation – has been criticised by many, including the digital rights group Electronic Frontier Foundation, for its potential impact on privacy and freedom of expression.

    Specifically, it sees member states agree to allow Internet Service Providers (ISPs) disclose a user’s information to a copyright holder, where the latter has a sufficient claim that the user is breaching their copyright.
    No circumventing

    It also says member states will have to offer “effective legal remedies” to ensure that anti-theft measures – such as the Digital Rights Management (DRM) protection on purchased music files – cannot be circumvented.

    The clause could potentially mean that Apple, for example, would have to disable its MP3 recording facility in iTunes – because it could be used to remove the DRM protections from a piece of music purchased through its iTunes store.

    Other critics of the treaty suggest that it will forbid the distribution of cheap generic drugs – because they would infringe the copyright of pharmaceutical companies whose research led to their discovery.

    A European Commission spokesman said ACTA would not create new intellectual property rights, but would merely serve to enforce existing ones – and would not lead to constant monitoring of internet traffic.

    Michele Neylon of Carlow-based internet hosting company Blacknight said the treaty could force internet hosts to deal directly with orders issued by copyright holders, instead of being able to ensure that such orders were handed down by a court.

    “If we’ve been given a court order, fine – there’s no discussion, a judge has made a decision – but that’s not what happens, you don’t get your day in court.”

    Neylon said it was a matter of “basic economics” that companies like his could not run up significant legal fees, ensuring that court procedures were followed, when those legal fees vastly exceeded the money it received to host sites in the first place.

    He added that the current Irish legal situation, where there is no formal definition of ‘fair use’, meant even the likes of personal blogs could be subject to takedown orders if they included a company’s logo without permission, for example.
    $200bn industry

    The agreement is aimed at clamping down on the trade of counterfeit consumer and electronic goods, which the OECD believes was worth some $200 billion in 2007 – the equivalent of around 2 per cent of all legal trade worldwide that year.

    All Irish government Departments will have to confirm that Ireland has the legal means to implement ACTA before it can be formally adopted.

    A government spokesperson said, however, that Ireland did not expect to have to amend its current legislation – believing that the provisions of the deal were already accounted for in Irish law.

    She added that negotiations on the deal had included representatives from the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation [i.e. Sean Sherlock] and members from Ireland’s permanent representation at the EU in Brussels.

    News of ACTA being ratified by Poland earlier this week drew the wrath of Anonymous and another group called Polish Underground, which attacked the websites of many government departments in protest at Poland’s signature of the treaty.

    The United States, Canada, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Morocco – all of which took part in negotiating the treaty – signed up to ACTA in October of last year.

    The European Union and Switzerland said at the time that they would offer their support for the treaty and would sign it as soon as was practicable.

    Other interested countries can sign up to the deal before May 2013.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-and-eu-to-sign-controversial-acta-treaty-tomorrow-336764-Jan2012/

    I've been trying to get accurate information on this for the past 3 days, and it's only fully clear now; this is unbelievable, it has been negotiated in complete secrecy, and now is about to be signed in, went under everyones radar (was not made clear at all it was to be signed in).

    The ****storm happening in Poland, and just starting here, should have been happening all over Europe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    The entire thing being done in relative secrecy makes a mockery of democracy imho. It seems we are run for the corporations and banks and not the people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    I would say that the important part of the statement that KyussBishop just quoted was:
    A government spokesperson said, however, that Ireland did not expect to have to amend its current legislation – believing that the provisions of the deal were already accounted for in Irish law.

    In other words, the government believes it has already implemented all the measures required by ACTA in Irish legislation already - if so, the formal adoption of ACTA should have no impact here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    VinLieger wrote: »
    None of my local tds offices had a clue what i was talking about, and 2 of them are gonna be calling me back to find out what the hell is going on.

    You might be better contacting your MEPs as the European Parliament seems to be about to process ACTA whereas the Oireachtas probably won't get round to it until next year (or later) and TDs won't focus on it until then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    View wrote: »
    I would say that the important part of the statement that KyussBishop just quoted was:
    A government spokesperson said, however, that Ireland did not expect to have to amend its current legislation – believing that the provisions of the deal were already accounted for in Irish law.


    In other words, the government believes it has already implemented all the measures required by ACTA in Irish legislation already - if so, the formal adoption of ACTA should have no impact here.
    See the Polish government are trying that tack as well, and it just plain-on-its-face doesn't make sense; why is Sherlock trying to pass a new law if the law we have is adequate already?

    Just like him professing concern for freedom of speech etc., it's spin and lies.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    See the Polish government are trying that tack as well, and it just plain-on-its-face doesn't make sense; why is Sherlock trying to pass a new law if the law we have is adequate already?

    Just like him professing concern for freedom of speech etc., it's spin and lies.

    Demonstrations in Poland rised over 10 000 people:

    http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pl&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fniezalezna.pl%2F22387-demonstracje-przeciwko-acta-w-calym-kraju&act=url


  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭mistermouse


    Seems to me this is another one of the laws being enforced upon us by the EU, we really need to start looking at the whole European attitude to things. I'd imagine were we not a member as in ultimately judged upon in the European Courts we could set our own laws in these type of matters, as it stands our politicians always do what the EU want, time and again

    Anyway I think EMI have the government running scared here, the Government rather than legislate to beat them, will legislate to side with them.

    EMI were never that great of a player in the music industry and everyone should boycott their releases full stop. That's the only way to corporations to take notice

    As for Politicians, no one in this country should really be suprised that they would side with Corporations, Banks, Big Business etc.

    I support copyright but I think this is a step too far and its being forced upon us by the EU and the US


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    BlueJohn wrote: »

    "Sean Sherlock, Minister for Enterprise, Jobs and Innovation, has announced he intends to enact a radical new law curtailing access to websites in Ireland, without a vote in the Oireachtas. Your civil rights and free access to the internet are under threat. Stop Minister Sherlock."

    also contact him directly http://www.seansherlock.ie/contact-me/


    pwned

    4EQpf.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭wiseguy


    MadsL wrote: »
    pwned

    It seems to me like he deliberately took his site down so he doesnt have to answer to angry citizens via email etc.

    It is unlikely that cloudflare was DDOSed simply due to the scale of their operations.

    So yes people contact your representatives, im sure for once they be happy to hear about an issue that doesnt involve taxes, banks, welfare or PS pay :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭nacho66


    During the night, in Tokio, ambassadors of all European countries except Cyprus, Estonia, Slovakia, Germany and Holland have signed the document. Which means Ireland did it too.. quietly, without majority of nation knowing anything


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Seems to me this is another one of the laws being enforced upon us by the EU, we really need to start looking at the whole European attitude to things. I'd imagine were we not a member as in ultimately judged upon in the European Courts we could set our own laws in these type of matters, as it stands our politicians always do what the EU want, time and again

    Anyway I think EMI have the government running scared here, the Government rather than legislate to beat them, will legislate to side with them.

    EMI were never that great of a player in the music industry and everyone should boycott their releases full stop. That's the only way to corporations to take notice

    As for Politicians, no one in this country should really be suprised that they would side with Corporations, Banks, Big Business etc.

    I support copyright but I think this is a step too far and its being forced upon us by the EU and the US

    I'm afraid not - Ireland will have had plenty of time to negotiate on ACTA, and the EU would not be in a position to sign up to it without the consent of all the Member States. So Ireland's position on ACTA can be taken as pro.

    However, the European Parliament has a veto, and has been relatively uncomfortable with the whole ACTA process. They may be the only voted-on input into the proceedings.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    ACTA is now signed by all of EU including Ireland:
    Today in Tokyo, the EU and 22 of its Member States officially signed ACTA, the anti-counterfeiting trade agreement. The worldwide citizen movement initiated against SOPA and PIPA must now focus on defeating their global counterpart ACTA in the European Parliament.
    ...
    http://www.laquadrature.net/node/5095


  • Registered Users Posts: 38 tryde


    Democracy my ass. As soon as I'm done with college I move to some country where Democracy actually exists. It's unbelievable they can even do something like this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,780 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    tryde wrote: »
    Democracy my ass. As soon as I'm done with college I move to some country where Democracy actually exists. It's unbelievable they can even do something like this.

    LOL good luck finding something like that, it doesnt exist anymore mate


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭rom


    uHcVs.png


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  • Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭Chevolution


    The ACTA law has officialy been signed in by Sean Sherlock according to this article http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-media/item/25502-eu-countries-including/ but according to the RTE website it has been postponed http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0126/copyright.html anyone know the truth? :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Geralt


    @Chevolution: It was signed. on rte website it says that they will only ammend the copyright law to allign it with EU regulations. here's a qute: In response, Deputy Sherlock said the planned amendment "merely re-stated an existing position"

    They signed it, they didnt give two f..cks about public opinion . As someone said democracy my ass. Revolution anyone?


  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭investment


    those ****ing ***** up in the dail think they own our country


  • Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭Chevolution


    Well looks like a revolution is in order...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5 Fennessy101


    Hey,

    just raising some awareness

    http://stopactaireland.weebly.com/index.html

    thanks lads!:cool:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills



    When I posted this topic originally months ago, it got no response, so it seems something people did not hold much interest in or care about; it is a hugely important subject though, with regards to free speech on the internet, so it would be good to see some discussion on it here .

    I saw all this coming over two years ago.

    Look at the response back then. :)

    ACTA.......is ready to attack your IPOD


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭sarkozy


    Don't people think the whole Ireland SOPA thing is a way to distract us from ACTA?

    I don't doubt we need to block Ireland SOPA and it's something we can do something about.

    But the timing of this domestic focus is curious to me to say the least. ACTA isn't even a global, multilateral agreement and, I believe, outside the realm of the UN and WTO. There are already serious concerns with intellectual property under WTO agreements (e.g. Big Pharma not letting developing countries produce generic HIV drugs; Monsanto 'patenting life-forms' and preventing Amazonian societies from using their traditional medicines). ACTA is a sweeping treaty agreed by a handful of countries with the power to utterly transform the freedom of information, and human rights, across the whole world.

    We should be picketing the European Commission and lobby our Members of European Parliament.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,630 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    I saw all this coming over two years ago.

    Look at the response back then. :)

    ACTA.......is ready to attack your IPOD


    People like you are never listened to, not until it's too late. :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop




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  • Registered Users Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Mollywolly



    Thanks for that, very interesting. On a side note, I sent an email to three local MEP's (Brian Crowley, Sean Kelly and Phil Prendergast) and finally got a reply from Brian Crowley today:
    Thank you for your email regarding the Anti Counterfeiting Trade Agreement.

    Committees in the European Parliament are currently discussing this agreement and it is expected to come before Parliament for vote later in the year.

    Your email is one of a number that I have received on the issue and I will take your concerns into consideration during discussions.

    Thank you for writing to me.

    Kind regards

    Is mise le meas
    Brian

    I also sent an email to my local TD but haven't had a reply yet. I can only hope that Brian Crowley is willing to listen to all those who are concerned at ACTA being pushed through without any debate.

    We need to keep up the fight lads :)


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