PARAS OR ROYAL MARINES ???

cruasder777 · 15-12-2011 4:59pm

Donny5 wrote: »

Al-Faw in 2003, and before that, probably the Falklands.

Al-Faw was also an air assault from the sea.

US gunships and fighter-bombers attacked the known enemy positions on the peninsula in a short bombardment prior to the operation. In a classic airborne night assault, the 40 Commando and US marines landed by helicopter, encounterinAt the same time, air and sea landings secured the gas and oil platforms out at sea. SEAL Teams 8 and 10 captured the Mina Al Bakr Oil Terminal and Polish GROM commandos captured the Khor Al-Amaya Oil Terminal. 32 Iraqi prisoners were also captured. Explosive Ordnance Disposal were then landed on the platforms to search for and remove explosive booby traps and demolition charges.

A second assault by 42 Commando followed at 2225 hours. The second assault was preceded by artillery and naval bombardment, the artillery fire came from three British and one US artillery batteries positioned on Bubiyan Island, the naval component from HMS Richmond, HMS Marlborough, HMS Chatham and HMAS Anzac. The Marines were preceded by USMC AH-1 Cobra helicopters gunships and flown in by USMC helicopters to land just north of the town of Al Faw, destroying enemy artillery which could threaten the oil infrastructure and 40 Commando's flank.

The insertion began badly with appalling visibility, worsened by fires and sand. The Headquarters of the Brigade Reconnaissance Force crashed in a US CH-46 Sea Knight as the assault formation turned over the Brigade assembly area, killing the seven Royal Marines and four US marine Corps aviators aboard. The cloud base dropped even further and the insertion was aborted. A new insertion was planned, using RAF Chinook and Puma helicopters for dawn. The landings finally took place, six hours late and onto insecure landing zones, all the objectives were taken and secured.

g light resistance. They captured their three strategic objectives without loss and capturing over 200 prisoners.

C81 · 15-12-2011 7:51pm

hi,

go for the Royal Marines.. Paras are too involved with atrocities in Ireland. Although a tough, proud unit you may find the marines to be bit more acceptable back home. If it doesnt bother you about it. Go for what you want to do.

Lemming · 15-12-2011 9:11pm

C81 wrote: »

hi,

go for the Royal Marines.. Paras are too involved with atrocities in Ireland. Although a tough, proud unit you may find the marines to be bit more acceptable back home. If it doesnt bother you about it. Go for what you want to do.

To be perfectly honest, if someone 'back home' is so inclined to say something to your face, it'll be because you wear a British uniform as a general concept; unit distinctions wouldn't account for much. Anyone likely to consider bodily harm is even less likely to care which unit or what branch/discipline/trade; you could be a chef for all they care and all they want is an excuse for a fight anyway.

IrelandDylan · 18-12-2011 3:10pm

In the RM, after your 32 weeks of RT, you will most likely be sent off to do some specialization for two years first. You could be stuck being a Chef for two years before you get on to your GD. In the PARAs, you could be sent to the Special Forces Support Group two years after completing basic training. Main thing that turned me off RM.

2selfconscious · 18-12-2011 7:26pm

Thanks for all the helpful posts

@ irelandDylan you in the paras bud ? or going for them yourself ? ...

IrelandDylan · 18-12-2011 8:51pm

Not yet, in transition year now and hoping to join the IDF, PARAS or R IRISH after the L.C.

Lemming · 18-12-2011 9:39pm

IrelandDylan wrote: »

the IDF

You mean the PDF right?

(unless of course you actually do intend on travelling to Israel in which case my bad )

IrelandDylan · 18-12-2011 9:50pm

Yep ha, sorry.

discus · 19-12-2011 9:58am

krissovo wrote: »

Do you like the cold?
Does the idea of being towed for miles behind a BV on skis turn you on?
Do you like snow holes?
Can you swim very well?
Do you fancy skiing into a frozen lake?
I can handle sea sickness?
Do you like to live near the sea?
Do you like hot areas like Turkey in the summer?
Do you love playing on the beach?
Can you run on shingle?
Do you want other opportunities apart from infantry?

If you have mostly Y's then join Para's, if the last 3 are N then join a Corp's and do either the All arms Para course or commando course and be both:D

Great post man! I'm on the AACC in the new year - I hear its all beaches and cocktails... :cool::pac:

cruasder777 · 19-12-2011 12:39pm

This may be of intrest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2q7Z735UUc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qA1jXG1IVRU&feature=related

cruasder777 · 19-12-2011 12:47pm

IrelandDylan wrote: »

In the RM, after your 32 weeks of RT, you will most likely be sent off to do some specialization for two years first. You could be stuck being a Chef for two years before you get on to your GD. In the PARAs, you could be sent to the Special Forces Support Group two years after completing basic training. Main thing that turned me off RM.

Or if you are good enough Pathfinder selection. The Parachute Regiments special forces unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvile3oxAjM&feature=related

twinytwo · 19-12-2011 4:16pm

cruasder777 wrote: »

Or if you are good enough Pathfinder selection. The Parachute Regiments special forces unit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvile3oxAjM&feature=related

please god do not tell me your just referred to the pathfinders as special forces.....

RoyalMarine · 19-12-2011 4:17pm

how did i miss this thread...

cruasder777 · 19-12-2011 5:14pm

twinytwo wrote: »

please god do not tell me your just referred to the pathfinders as special forces.....

They are green role special forces trained in HALO/HAHO, long range/ISTAR patrolling, SOP training, demolition, driving/mobility skills, language skills, patrol skills,SOF communications, combat medicine, survival,Fwd air controller skills etc.

"Pathfinders may be inserted up to a week ahead of the main force, usually in 4-man teams. The men of the pathfinder platoon are skilled in covert insertion, concealment and intelligence gathering."

They do phase 1 SAS Brecon selection, and learn alot of the same skills the SAS are taught, they then do a stint in jungle warfare training.

Their training and selection and experience is beyond that of most countries special forces in a green role. There training is like that of 22 SAS air troop, although they also have a mountain troop within the Pathfinders.

discus · 19-12-2011 5:42pm

twinytwo wrote: »

please god do not tell me your just referred to the pathfinders as special forces.....

Everyone wants to be SF these days! I also love how crusader retorted with an obviously ctrl c+v job from an unnamed source!

cruasder777 · 19-12-2011 5:49pm

discus wrote: »

Everyone wants to be SF these days! I also love how crusader retorted with an obviously ctrl c+v job from an unnamed source!

The Pathfinders role is one of green role special forces......and they have seen alot of combat in that role.

The MOD would never officially recognise them as that as it would mean a higher pay scale.

They have been around in 5 Ab bde since WW2.

http://www.specwarnet.net/europe/pathfinders.html

Any male in the British Army can apply for the Pathfinders, however the core is taken from units in 5 Airborne Brigade. Selection is currently 5 weeks long. It is held in Okehampton and in the Brecon Beacons qualified, many will also continue on to become HAHO qualified. The soldiers are then split up into two platoons: Air and Mountain platoons. Their they will be posted to one of the five 4-man platoons, the building block of the Pathfinders. The main difference between the two unit is the Air Platoon troops are all trained in both HALO and HAHO, while the Mountain Platoon is only trained in HALO and specializes in arctic warfare. The 4-man teams will work together in all aspects of training. The patrols are expected to be proficient in the use of their basic weapons as well as heavy weapons. They are taught about demolitions and sabotage ( such as how to blow rail way lines and bridges ). The Pathfinders also become proficient in mobility operations and ambushes. They are taught about survival and E&E. Last but certainly not least they are expected to keep up to speed on insertion methods. Each soldier is to serve 3 years, but officers only serve two years before going back to their parent unit ( usually to help spread their new knowledge ). After 3 years soldiers can decide to stay on for another 3 years if they wish.

Some Pathfinders don't stay on again. They try something new; SAS Selection . This is now always the case, but increasing numbers of Paras are joining the SAS. In 1981 the first Pathfinder left to join the SAS ( Steve Devereux, author of Terminal Velocity ). After him 8 more left within 18 months of his leaving. All passed SAS Selection.

The Pathfinders have special ties with many foreign units. They have worked with the Jordanian Special Forces. They also maintain close ties to US Army Rangers and the Pathfinders ( or LRS ) of the 82nd Airborne. Another close tie is with the GCP ( formerly CRAP; yes that is its real name ) of the 2nd REP, French Foreign Legion.

Lemming · 19-12-2011 8:45pm

cruasder777 wrote: »

They do phase 1 SAS Brecon selection

Hadn't realised that they [Pathfinders] actually followed the same selection process as the SAS? I'd only ever heard their selection process referred to as 'Test week on speed', but hadn't heard much in the way of the specifics.

With apologies to the OP for the off-topic nature of this post.

cruasder777 · 19-12-2011 11:24pm

Lemming wrote: »

Hadn't realised that they [Pathfinders] actually followed the same selection process as the SAS? I'd only ever heard their selection process referred to as 'Test week on speed', but hadn't heard much in the way of the specifics.

With apologies to the OP for the off-topic nature of this post.

They do Brecon phase 1 for selection which is 1 month, test week is 1 at the end, but its sometimes done on Dartmoor, same tabs, inc solo the 40 miler,battle skills, etc the SAS do for selection. They also then do the same continuation training.... mobility training, demolition, CQB skills etc.

They dont do the 6 week jungle phase the SAS do.

The Royal Marines equivilent is the Brigade Reconnaissance Force (Brigade Patrol Troop). The do the same selection and training inc HALO para training , not sure if they do HAHO parachuting though like the Pathfinders, which is pretty dangerous, last time it was used in theatre an SAS trooper was killed.

Nowadays they teach stacking to keep the troop together.

"HAHO - High Altitude High Opening - In which the parachutists deploy their chutes at high altitude. Using steerable chutes, HAHO jumpers can glide a long distance. The advantage of HAHO is that it allows deeper penetration of enemy territory that may otherwise be too dangerous to risk a plane over. The downside is that it requires the jumpers to work on oxygen for longer, with all the inherent risks. There is also the likelihood that the troop would get separated on the descent. To test the HAHO concept, a group of SAS parachutists once glided across the English Channel, successfully traversing the 30 miles between England and France. "

"There's speculation that there are classified agreements between British Airways and the SAS that would allow the use of BA planes in certain circumstances to deliver men via HALO or HAHO jumps. The thinking is that a British Airways plane, probably a cargo type without passengers, may be used to deliver a covert team, perhaps faking an emergency that takes it into restricted airspace. The SAS team would stealthily deploy out from the cargo hold. Once out, the 'civilian' jet would then miraculously solve its emergency and resume course."

twinytwo · 20-12-2011 2:59am

cruasder777 wrote: »

They are green role special forces trained in HALO/HAHO, long range/ISTAR patrolling, SOP training, demolition, driving/mobility skills, language skills, patrol skills,SOF communications, combat medicine, survival,Fwd air controller skills etc.

"Pathfinders may be inserted up to a week ahead of the main force, usually in 4-man teams. The men of the pathfinder platoon are skilled in covert insertion, concealment and intelligence gathering."

They do phase 1 SAS Brecon selection, and learn alot of the same skills the SAS are taught, they then do a stint in jungle warfare training.

Their training and selection and experience is beyond that of most countries special forces in a green role. There training is like that of 22 SAS air troop, although they also have a mountain troop within the Pathfinders.

Lol at you my friend... the pathfinders are a specalist recon unit.... dont get me wrong they are there to do a specific task and they are excellent at what they do.

But ......they are not special forces in any form of the word.

Man some of the people on here live in fantasy land.

Just because you quote some garbage off the internet.... dosent make it correct.

curiousrecruit · 20-12-2011 3:12am

just got my application pack in the post for the royal marines, have been training for a month now for pmsc, cant bloody wait. Good luck to anyone joining

cruasder777 · 20-12-2011 11:12am

twinytwo wrote: »

Lol at you my friend... the pathfinders are a specalist recon unit.... dont get me wrong they are there to do a specific task and they are excellent at what they do.

But ......they are not special forces in any form of the word.

Man some of the people on here live in fantasy land.

Just because you quote some garbage off the internet.... dosent make it correct.

They do alot more then a specific task.

They are selected and train in the same way as green role special forces they are trained in HALO/HAHO, long range/ISTAR patrolling, SOP training, demolition, driving/mobility skills, language skills, patrol skills,SOF communications, combat medicine, survival,Fwd air controller skills etc.

.....Infact their training is beyond that of most other nations special forces units. There training is practically the same as SAS air troop.

......Are you denying this ?

In Afghanistan they are doing, Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition And Reconnaissance , which is the same as what the SAS were founded to do. Classic special Forces tasks.

You make up for your ignorance by throwing insults.

The Special Reconnasiance Regiment are a recon regiment, they are still special forces you muppet.

The Pathfinders are not regarded as special forces simply because the MOD would have to pay them special forces rates of pay.

Other nations inc France regard such units as Special Forces.

discus · 20-12-2011 11:25am

Dude, I dont know what websites you've been reading, but they're not special forces. Even the Pathfinders themselves don't regard themselves as SF - I know this cause they were trying to persuade a few of us to put 7 Para as our regiment of choice a few weeks ago, and used pathfinders as a selling point.

cruasder777 · 20-12-2011 11:29am

discus wrote: »

Dude, I dont know what websites you've been reading, but they're not special forces. Even the Pathfinders themselves don't regard themselves as SF - I know this cause they were trying to persuade a few of us to put 7 Para as our regiment of choice a few weeks ago, and used pathfinders as a selling point.

Can you read ? They are not regarded by the MOD as special forces, because it would mean special forces rates of pay.

Also because the SAS like to have command over all other UK SOF units.

Other nations regard HALO trained ISTAR role units as Special forces.

They are selected as, trained as and perform a special forces role in Afghanistan.

They perform as green role special forces on 6 week patrols and engage the enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQX8maabntQ

discus · 20-12-2011 11:37am

cruasder777 wrote: »

Can you read ? They are not regarded by the MOD as special forces, because it would mean special forces rates of pay.

Also because the SAS like to have command over all other UK SOF units.

Other nations regard HALO trained ISTAR role units as Special forces.

They are selected as, trained as and perform a special forces role in Afghanistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQX8maabntQ

I'll leave you to it mate, you're obviously more in touch with things than I am.

edit: and just as a closing, during our talk, we were told by the paras that pathfinders was a springboard for those looking to go special forces. QED as far as I'm concerned.

cruasder777 · 20-12-2011 11:42am

discus wrote: »

I'll leave you to it mate, you're obviously more in touch with things than I am.

edit: and just as a closing, during our talk, we were told by the paras that pathfinders was a springboard for those looking to go special forces. QED as far as I'm concerned.

I dont dispute that, all am saying is other nations regard such units as Special Forces.

RMD · 20-12-2011 11:12pm

cruasder777 wrote: »

I dont dispute that, all am saying is other nations regard such units as Special Forces.

What other nations regard as SF is irrelevant though in this case. By other nations standards the RM AW Cadre would also be considered SF but they're not. By other nations standard yes SAS SBS SRR would be T1 and PF / AW Cadre would be T2, but the BAF only operate a 1 tier system.

cruasder777 · 20-12-2011 11:30pm

RMD wrote: »

What other nations regard as SF is irrelevant though in this case. By other nations standards the RM AW Cadre would also be considered SF but they're not. By other nations standard yes SAS SBS SRR would be T1 and PF / AW Cadre would be T2, but the BAF only operate a 1 tier system.

That may be the case in the UK but its political and inhouse reasons not due to their role.

They are trained as green Special Forces and operate in a green role SOF role in Afghanistan.....thats a fact.

The RM mountain leader training cadre do get some special forces pay.

The reason none of them are officially classed as special forces is because the SAS like to have command over all UK SOF units and put up huge resistance to the classification of other units as special forces, which is why they insisted the Special Recon Regiment is under their command.

Lets say for example a Pathfinders patrol performing an ISTAR role was captured during a future Iranian war, they would be regarded by their captors as special forces not conventional infantry........because thats the role in combat they are peforming.

Long range patrols, target acquisition, demolition etc.

.......So its highly relevent.

The original SAS would not have been regarded Special forces according to the modern UK MOD classification system. Either would most US navy seal units or the Green berets, which shows what a nonsense it is.

twinytwo · 20-12-2011 11:58pm

cruasder777 wrote: »

Can you read ? They are not regarded by the MOD as special forces, because it would mean special forces rates of pay.

Also because the SAS like to have command over all other UK SOF units.

Other nations regard HALO trained ISTAR role units as Special forces.

They are selected as, trained as and perform a special forces role in Afghanistan.

They perform as green role special forces on 6 week patrols and engage the enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQX8maabntQ

Do you actually read what you write???

"They are not regarded by the MOD as special forces, because it would mean special forces rates of pay."

In the UK armed services to be considered special forces one must first pass UKSF selection.... the parthfinders do not do this. Only three units do the SAS, the SBS and the SRR. Do you see pathfinders in this list?

Rates of pay??.. Are you having a laugh. The are "not regarded as SF"... because they arnt SF.

"Also because the SAS like to have command over all other UK SOF units."

By SAS i take it you mean UKSF and by that i take you mean the director of SF??

"Other nations regard HALO trained ISTAR role units as Special forces"

We are not talking about other countries, we are talking about the UK.

"They are selected as, trained as and perform a special forces role in Afghanistan."

No, no and no

You live in a warped reality....You dont know what your talking about, and the "evidence" you have is comical at best. your actually the first person to ever go on my ignore list.

cruasder777 · 21-12-2011 12:43am

twinytwo wrote: »

Do you actually read what you write???

"They are not regarded by the MOD as special forces, because it would mean special forces rates of pay."

In the UK armed services to be considered special forces one must first pass UKSF selection.... the parthfinders do not do this. Only three units do the SAS, the SBS and the SRR. Do you see pathfinders in this list?

Rates of pay??.. Are you having a laugh. The are "not regarded as SF"... because they arnt SF.

"Also because the SAS like to have command over all other UK SOF units."

By SAS i take it you mean UKSF and by that i take you mean the director of SF??

"Other nations regard HALO trained ISTAR role units as Special forces"

We are not talking about other countries, we are talking about the UK.

"They are selected as, trained as and perform a special forces role in Afghanistan."

No, no and no

You live in a warped reality....You dont know what your talking about, and the "evidence" you have is comical at best. your actually the first person to ever go on my ignore list.

You really are full of s... are you seriously saying there ISTAR/long range patrol, target acquistion and air strike role combined is not a SOF one ? they go out on 6 week long range patrols ffs.

:rolleyes: What is it ? A conventional infantry role ? Its alot more then a recon role.

They do Brecon phase 1 muppet and are trained in Special Forces skills, special forces train in HALO, demolition, target acquisition, mobilty training, combat medicine, HALO etc etc.

Are you saying the PFs are not trained in the above ???????????????????

Their selection is alot more physically demanding then the SRR and they are classed as SOF.

Are you now ISTAR long range patrolling is not a tradional special forces role ?

Avoid direct answers and just spout crap.

Jesus wept.

What do you think the Iranians would regard a captured PF patrol as muppet ?

RMD · 21-12-2011 12:49am

cruasder777 wrote: »

The reason none of them are officially classed as special forces is because the SAS like to have command over all UK SOF units and put up huge resistance to the classification of other units as special forces, which is why they insisted the Special Recon Regiment is under their command.

The SAS don't have command over any UK SOF units other than that of their own regiment. SAS, SBS AND SRR all stand on an equal footing within UKSF.

PARAS OR ROYAL MARINES ???

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