GET SOME!!

Tabnabs wrote: »

When Navies Fire Back – Top Photos of Pirate Skiff Destruction

This is one of the most hilarious photos I've ever seen. A vessel that costs millions, staffed by well paid us navy personnel, operating many miles from home, the cost of it all must be fantastic. And they are destroying a crappy wooden boat worth at most a thousand euro and probably a lot less, this is target famine indeed. Wouldn't it just be cheaper to bomb the pirate bases with dollars, and why are they not at home in the USA doing something about the banksters, who are doing more damage to the world economy that Somali pirates. Idiots.

goldie fish wrote: »

The cost to world shipping from piracy justifies the Naval Presence.

I repeat the damage to the global economy done by these pirates is tiny compared to what the banksters are doing, these idiots should be in New York arresting the real pirates, who have destroyed nations. Buying off the Somali pirates would be a fraction of the cost of this idiotic operation.

Before super trawlers vacuumed out the fishing waters off the horn of Africa these people were fishing. What did we think was going to happen when we destroyed their means of making a living. How moral was it to take fish out of the mouths of hungry African children to feed it to obese westerners.

Again I say Idiots, the western world is run by a bunch of gob****es. And the above photo is indicative of how stupid they are.

With all due respect Tabnabs and discus, cop on chat like "get some" and "bastards" is pathetic. These are real people in the horn of Africa and people there are dying in a famine. Meanwhile these idiots float off the coast in their multi million dollar machines sinking crappy wooden boats. Some serious political analysis is in order not glib comparisons to movies.

clonmahon wrote: »

I repeat the damage to the global economy done by these pirates is tiny compared to what the banksters are doing, these idiots should be in New York arresting the real pirates, who have destroyed nations. Buying off the Somali pirates would be a fraction of the cost of this idiotic operation.

Before super trawlers vacuumed out the fishing waters off the horn of Africa these people were fishing. What did we think was going to happen when we destroyed their means of making a living. How moral was it to take fish out of the mouths of hungry African children to feed it to obese westerners.

Again I say Idiots, the western world is run by a bunch of gob****es. And the above photo is indicative of how stupid they are.

With all due respect Tabnabs and discus, cop on chat like "get some" and "bastards" is pathetic. These are real people in the horn of Africa and people there are dying in a famine. Meanwhile these idiots float off the coast in their multi million dollar machines sinking crappy wooden boats. Some serious political analysis is in order not glib comparisons to movies.

Well put.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html

Local-womanizer wrote: »

The ships would have trouble manoeuvring on the streets of western cities!

But seriously, these pirates are criminals, and always will be. They are hated in their local communities as they are just thugs.

Taking out these pirates benefits everyone, the local community included.

You either don't understand what I am saying or have just ignored it. You say the pirates are criminals and thugs. I say they they are now, but they were fishermen who have had their means of making a living destroyed by the moronic global economy. They are desperate people with no other option. Would you choose to be a pirate if you had any other option.

The international community is spending all this money and making all this noise about dealing with a minor menace off the horn of Africa, while the banksters are destroying the world. Explain the logic of that.

The amount of money being spent on this operation would be a huge amount of money if injected into the Somali economy, give these people jobs and money and you think they would be risking their necks at piracy.

You say they are hated in their local community. You know this how ?. What is you source for this.

You say "taking out these pirates benefits everyone, the local community included". Again I repeat East Africa is in the grips of a famine. I can just see it, famine victim watching his kids die, thinking it could be worse, there's nothing to eat but at least the pirate menace is being controlled. Get real.

You say "the ships would have trouble manoeuvring on the streets of western cities!", I say they can easily get in range of Wall Street, Park Avenue or the city of London none of which are far from water. If they decided to take out Jamie Diamond they could easily manouver into a position to do so.

So please will someone explain to me why they are burning crappy wooden boats off the horn of Africa, while Jamie Diamond (CEO JP Morgan) is still free to walk around and destroy the global economy. This will require some serious political analysis not just the repetition of inane slogans. The real pirates are in New York and London.

Tabnabs wrote: »

I've lived with the threat of armed and desperate criminals rounding me and my colleagues up and being detained by them for days, weeks or months with no certain outcome.

Quick question did these "desperate criminals" come to your home, into your country and subject you to this ordeal. Or did you and your colleagues have to travel to someone elses country to meet these "scum".

clonmahon wrote: »

Where do such quaint concepts as due process and the rule of law fit in with your worldview.

And the hypocrite's mask slips. In your haste to pillory Tabnabs, you fail to apply your own moral indignation to those you seek to defend. Those who, with no hint of irony, would not be slow to point the barrel of a gun at your head, hold you indefinitely and try to ransom you (until they couldn't get any more mileage out of you ... ). The same people who have no respect for notions such as "due process" or the "rule of law".

Human beings they may be, but the worst atrocities in mankind's history have been at the hands of ... human beings. Rather than trying to apply some sacred cow defence, how about you judge them on their actions. These pirates have shown they are willing to use force against other human beings for a mixture of money and/or extremist religious ideology. That unfortunately means that other than appeasing them, you're going to have to use force, or the threat of force to make them comply with the "rule of law".

savagecabbages wrote: »

You are comparing accountants with terrorists in the Military forum. That's the first problem.

I am comparing the super rich with Somali Pirates and saying that the super rich are wreaking havoc on the world on a vast scale, with total impunity. They are waging economic war on us all. This economic war is robbing us all and it is killing people all over the world. I am saying that the developed world has waged economic war on the people of Somalia and the pirates are the inevitable effect of that cause.

Dismissing the pirates as bastards and scum is good propaganda but it will not win the war. They are real people like me and you, if they are to be successfully dealt with the political, social and economic context in which they operate will have to be understood.

“war is the continuation of politics by other means” said Carl von Clausewitz. With out this discussing military affairs is a boys own affair, focused on tactics and equipment. I am interested in the politics of this war and why the developed world has fixated on this group of pirates. If you read the link poster by alanmcqueen on the previous page it includes the following passage.

“The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarised by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know "what he meant by keeping possession of the sea." The pirate smiled, and responded: "What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor." “ This is what I mean by the politics of war. The technology may change but the propaganda of the rich and powerful against the poor and weak never changes.

savagecabbages wrote: »

You also clearly have your mind made up on the issue you brought into this thread so its not up for debate.

I have strong opinions about the politics of this war on piracy. And am prepared to debate them vigorously

savagecabbages wrote: »

I'm not going to tell you how one is worse than the other. These religious extremists who are trying to enforce their way of life upon us all would have no qualms about slitting your throat, or my throat with a knife. They see us as unbelievers and would like nothing better than to wipe everyone in the western world out. Bankers, protesters, politicians, ALL OF US.

This is absolutely true that is their ambition, but they are sorely lacking in the means to do so. If we learn anything from history is that such insurgents depend for their success on their powerful enemy overreacting. This is why without the political context a discussion of military affairs is just guff. And the same mistakes will be made again and again.

clonmahon wrote: »

I am comparing the super rich with Somali Pirates and saying that the super rich are wreaking havoc on the world on a vast scale, with total impunity. They are waging economic war on us all. This economic war is robbing us all and it is killing people all over the world. I am saying that the developed world has waged economic war on the people of Somalia and the pirates are the inevitable effect of that cause.

Dismissing the pirates as bastards and scum is good propaganda but it will not win the war. They are real people like me and you, if they are to be successfully dealt with the political, social and economic context in which they operate will have to be understood.

“war is the continuation of politics by other means” said Carl von Clausewitz. With out this discussing military affairs is a boys own affair, focused on tactics and equipment. I am interested in the politics of this war and why the developed world has fixated on this group of pirates. If you read the link poster by alanmcqueen on the previous page it includes the following passage.

“The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarised by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know "what he meant by keeping possession of the sea." The pirate smiled, and responded: "What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor." “ This is what I mean by the politics of war. The technology may change but the propaganda of the rich and powerful against the poor and weak never changes.




I have strong opinions about the politics of this war on piracy. And am prepared to debate them vigorously



This is absolutely true that is their ambition, but they are sorely lacking in the means to do so. If we learn anything from history is that such insurgents depend for their success on their powerful enemy overreacting. This is why without the political context a discussion of military affairs is just guff. And the same mistakes will be made again and again.

You should probably take your grievances with the 'west' as you call it over to the politics forum then. If we go down the line of what caused the Somali state to fail and how to fix the mess thats been left behind we'll be going waaay off topic for a thread in this forum...
This thread is about the anti-piracy operations, however funny you find it. We all know the Somali situation started out a political one, but it started affecting global shipping, and what we see is a response to the criminal activities carried out by the pirates. Nothing more, nothing less.
If the piracy stopped tomorrow, the anti-piracy patrols would stop soon afterwards.

savagecabbages wrote: »

You should probably take your grievances with the 'west' as you call it over to the politics forum then.

Fair point, I respectfully bow out.

discus wrote: »

What are you pair like?

I bowed respectfully out but I’m back because of this juvenile comment.

When I add this to

“Why don't you wind you neck in eh clonmahon?”

And

“the hypocrite's mask slips”

I’m seriously impressed by the standard of right wing intellect on this forum.

I can see no problem in seeking to discuss the social, economic and political context of the war on Somali piracy on a military forum. I posed two simple questions in my first post on this thread, the only one who has made any attempt to answer them was savagecabbages.

My first question is given that the economic and social damage the super rich and the bankers have done to the world economy is on a scale vastly greater than that caused by Somali pirates. Why the obsession with small time pirates. Simple question.

Please don’t tell me again how terrible pirates are, we can all take that as read. Pirates are a pretty desperate group of people, they do desperate things. They have no respect for the rule of law, they disrupt world trade, they are a menace to seafarers going about their legitimate business. They murder people etc. Agreed. But why the obsession with small time pirates who cause small time damage, when the banking and super rich pirates are laying whole nations to waste and robbing us all.

The second question I posed is given the cost of this naval operation, would it not be cheaper to buy off the pirates with cash.

Two simple questions guys any takers. And never mind the juvenile name calling.

Nice drills by the gunner, very impressive gunnery skills. Disciplined and accurate.

When I went to the careers office many moons ago I got laughed at by the recruiter for wanting to be a door gunner:o Told me I watched too many Vietnam movies.