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Higher premiums on the way, as insurers probe penalty points

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  • 26-08-2011 9:57am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭


    MOTORISTS will be hit with higher insurance premiums, depending on the type of penalty points they have, under plans to give the insurance industry power to probe a driver's history.

    For the first time, insurers will be able to call up a person's driving record to see their 'rap sheet' and discover exactly what offences they have committed.

    The companies will be able to penalise drivers based on the nature of the points they have incurred -- rather than the current system, which simply takes the number of points into account.

    Certain penalty-point offences will be 'weighted' to incur a higher premium -- these include driving under the influence of drink or drugs and careless driving.

    Details of the plan are being worked out by the Department of Transport, which is anxious to finalise a deal early in 2012.

    The insurance companies will be under pressure to pass on any savings to drivers who have no points on their licence -- but it is unclear if this will happen until the new system has been put in place.

    Until now, just one company, Aviva, could access the information on the national vehicle driver file, a confidential database showing drivers' penalty points.

    Even then, its staff could only see the number of penalty points clocked up by named drivers, not the type of offences.

    Aviva did a deal with the Government nine years ago to get access to the database, so that it could offer lower premiums to drivers with no points. Since then, no other insurer has reached a similar agreement.

    Under the proposed change, all companies will be able to instantly look up the exact nature of the offences, as well as the number of points imposed on drivers.

    The country's biggest insurer, AXA, told the Irish Independent yesterday that it would be be imposing "severe" loading on any driver found to have penalty points for drink driving.

    Hefty premiums will also be imposed for those with points relating to any dangerous or careless driving behaviour, the company confirmed.

    Paul Moloney, AXA head of corporate affairs, also warned that any driver not declaring points for these offences on renewal forms would have their policies voided in the event of a crash.

    Other insurers are expected to follow suit with punitive premiums for risky drivers.

    Current loadings for drink driving are as high as 150pc of the cost of the insurance.

    The move will have massive repercussions for those drivers who get three penalty points, instead of going to court, under the new drink-driving laws.

    A new, lower limit of just 50mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood will be introduced next month. While drivers who are caught between 50mg and 80mg will not be put off the road, they face penalty points.

    And that means massive hikes in their insurance premiums when they come to renew their policies -- because the companies will be able to check them out.

    A Department of Transport spokesman said talks were continuing with the insurers, with a view to allowing them access to specific information on penalty points relating to the nature of the offences.

    The new Road Traffic Act, which has already been approved, provides for all insurance companies to get real-time information on penalty points.

    Issues surrounding data protection are still being ironed out, but the new system is expected to be operational early next year.

    And it hopes this would have an impact on further cutting road deaths.

    "The department is very keen to come to an agreement with the industry on this," the Transport spokesman added.

    "We expect the process to last around six months and are very keen to see a positive outcome which would allow information on specific offences stored on the driver file to be shared with insurance companies."

    Niall Doyle, of the Irish Insurance Federation said: "We would welcome anything that would help insurers identify risk more clearly and therefore help to prevent road accidents and fatalities."

    - Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent

    Irish Independent
    Interesting!


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭SV


    Uh oh.

    There's gonna be a lot of people not able to afford to drive anymore :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    About bloody time, I know so many people with points and endorsements that just "don't mention" them to their insurance company! Fair is fair.

    I wonder will the general public have access to their own driver record?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,671 ✭✭✭whippet


    well considering that you get two and a half times as many points for not having a NCT cert (regardless of the condition of the car) as you do for driving the wrong way down a dual carraigeway I am all for this change


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭bijapos


    The insurance companies will be under pressure to pass on any savings to drivers who have no points on their licence -- but it is unclear if this will happen until the new system has been put in place.

    I doubt if any major savings will be passed on to drivers with no points. While the present system is wrong in that you can tell them whatever you want, this will not lead to any savings for those with a clean license. Insurance companies have made some huge losses in the past few years, they need all the money they can get. In fact I'm sure they won't pass anything on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,088 ✭✭✭✭CiniO


    Only what I can say, is that penalty point system is not fair location-wise.
    If I was driving in Dublin area, like I do in Mayo, I'd have collected tens of points over last few years.
    In reality I have none ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    I sincerely hope the insurance companies DO pass along lower premiums to those of us who have clean licences, but I can't see it happening.
    The rip-off arseholes who run the insurance business will only see this as a way to penalise people, not lessen the premiums (and their profits).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Shouldn't the title read more accurate premiums on the way?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭pcardin


    A guy from my work was paying around €400 for his 2.0 car last year and I was paying €550. He has insurance history a few years loneger than me. He has 11 penalty points right now and I have none (and never had one).

    I'm still quite sure that he will pay less than €400 for his renewal next year but we'll see.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭Break all ties


    I knew there was a reason why I left Ireland.

    Add this to that list.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Monty.


    Will this also apply to expired penalty points, how far back do they go ?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Paddy001


    About bloody time, I know so many people with points and endorsements that just "don't mention" them to their insurance company! Fair is fair.

    I wonder will the general public have access to their own driver record?

    Yes, you can phone 096-78288 with your license number and they can give you this information, that number goes straight through to some penalty points department


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I wonder can they get info about people on foreign driving licenses? (hopefully not :pac:)


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    What would happen if the insurers catch people out who have not been declaring points for years?

    Like that example with 11 points. If they check him out he can hardly say he collected them in the last 2 weeks (assuming he didnt declare points at all).


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    inforfun wrote: »
    What would happen if the insurers catch people out who have not been declaring points for years?

    Like that example with 11 points. If they check him out he can hardly say he collected them in the last 2 weeks (assuming he didnt declare points at all).

    Slowly introduce them over the coming months :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭pcardin


    OSI wrote: »
    I would be amazed if he had declared those 11 points to his Insurance company and still got a premium of €400

    Of course he hasnt declared them in the past. That's why I'm saying lets see what happens with this new system. If he gets more or less the same amount next year that will just mean that they do not check anything at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭CountingCrows


    inforfun wrote: »
    What would happen if the insurers catch people out who have not been declaring points for years?

    Database sharing involving the Irish civil service, I wouldn't hold my breath.


  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭Sputnik


    I wonder, since points are removed after three years is a record kept? Would they still have access to info on points that are no longer valid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,694 ✭✭✭✭L-M


    And suddenly the dishonest population of Ireland suddenly run and hide in the corner...


    :pac:


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    Not hiding. I have no points.
    Story of my life, everything i do is pointless. :p

    Just curious what would happen with people who could be found out this way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,261 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Nice to see, never got a penalty point in my life.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭I.S.T.


    Interesting!

    This should be closely monitored so that savings are also passed on to safe drivers, including young drivers with no penalty points.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    This should be closely monitored so that savings are also passed on to safe drivers, including young drivers with no penalty points.
    Wouldn't hold my breath.

    I'd say drivers with no points won't see an increase in premiums, but drivers with points will.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,818 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    This should be closely monitored so that savings are also passed on to safe drivers, including young drivers with no penalty points.
    I never thought i'd see you equate having no penalty points with being a safe driver.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,106 ✭✭✭✭TestTransmission


    And suddenly the dishonest population of Ireland suddenly run and hide in the corner...


    :pac:

    No hiding here,only 2 points on my licence and insurance knows about it.They're gone in a few months aswell :cool:

    (hope I didn't just jinx myself)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 696 ✭✭✭Monty.


    Will this also apply to expired penalty points, how far back will they go ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    It's a good idea.

    But there needs to be some transparency included as part of the deal whereby the insurance company when issuing a quote or a renewal is obliged to show the information it has received about the driver, and how the loading/discounting calculation has been derived and applied.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Monty. wrote: »
    Will this also apply to expired penalty points, how far back will they go ?

    Expired points are expired points. hard to see how they could try and penalise you for them.

    If you didn't declare them at the time however......


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Expired points are expired points. hard to see how they could try and penalise you for them.

    If you didn't declare them at the time however......

    I think once the insurance companies know you have a penalty points your premium will be raised and once those points have expired it will not come back down... ever.

    Another disregarded forethought....

    It's as disaster really.
    I agree with people being penalized for not driving safely. (IE the points system) I do not agree with people being penalized for be penalized.

    It's stupid.

    No one has mentioned how much higher peoples insurance is going to be either.

    And lastly if the insurance companies will know how many penalty points you have then they should ask people on the phone when they are ringing for a quote... It's degrading.

    seamus wrote: »
    It's a good idea.

    But there needs to be some transparency included as part of the deal whereby the insurance company when issuing a quote or a renewal is obliged to show the information it has received about the driver, and how the loading/discounting calculation has been derived and applied.

    That should have been brought in years ago!
    The Insurance companies get away with murder in this country, I hate having to deal with them.
    There is no transparency at all... they could have pulled a quote out of their a*** for all I know


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I had 4 points at one stage and declared them. No premium increase. They are expired now :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I had 4 points at one stage and declared them. No premium increase. They are expired now :D

    Well maybe it's not all doom and Gloom them.
    How many years NCB may I ask. :)


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