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Serial Marriers in Irish History - They married but how many times

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  • 29-03-2011 12:04am
    #1
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭


    One if my g-g grandfathers married 3 times and one of my favorite Irish historical characters is Lady Alice Kyteler who weighs in with a massive 4 marriages.

    1. William Outlawe of Kilkenny, a banker
    2. Adam le Blund of Callan
    3. Richard de Valle
    4. Sir John le Poer



    Lady Alice Kyteler was one of the richest residents in Kilkenny, Ireland.Descending from a prosperous, merchant family, she had the advantage of accumulating even greater wealth through a succession of four marriages. Her first marriage to wealthy banker and money-lender, William Utlagh, produced a son by the same name. Lady Alice’s son took up his deceased father’s trade, and over time, many local nobles became in debt to both mother and son.
    Witchcraft Accusations

    The strongest antagonism directed at Lady Alice and her son came from the stepchildren of her later marriages. Lady Alice’s first three husbands died, and her fourth husband became ill with a mysterious wasting disease. With family jealousies over money and inheritance playing a motivating role, Lady Alice’s stepchildren and sickly husband began accusing her of poisoning her current husband and bewitching her former husbands to death with black magic potions and powders.

    Read more at Suite101: Alice Kyteler: Accused Irish Witch: The Woman At the Center of Ireland’s First Witch Trial (1324-1325) http://www.suite101.com/content/lady-alice-kyteler-a76332#ixzz1Hw6RZbek

    A bit more on the witchcraft here

    http://www.obrien.ie/files/extracts/BewitchedLand-sample.pdf

    Elizabeth Taylor who married 8 times doesnt seem to have killed any of her husbands while Alice may have poisoned hers.

    So thats the question.

    Irish historical figures with multiple marriages.


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    #2
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    When I was in school our history teacher used to occasionally break into "and in 1513 married Gertrude , daughter of Sir James Frog and had issue" .We never knew the significances of the marriages but in that era people popped their clogs for many reasons and marriages for money, power and property were normal -but the guys clipped tone meant they were disapproved of.

    Shane O'Neill 2nd Earl of Tyrone liked his marriages and his gentlewomen

    He divorced his first wife Joan O'Donnell , wife 2 died ,Mabel Bagenal wife 3 left him after he had affairs and died and his 4th wife was Catherine Magennis.

    At nine he was taken by Sir Henry Sidney to his castle at Ludlow, Shropshire, and brought up there, at Penshurst in Kent, and in London. Described by a contemporary, Sir John Dowdall, as ‘a little rascal horse boy’, he was reared by his English patrons in ‘the new religion’. He succeeded his brother, Brian, when the latter was murdered by Turlough in 1562, as baron of Dungannon. He was brought up in the Pale, by a family named the Hovenedans, but returned to Ulster in 1567 after the death of Shane, under the protection of Sir Henry Sidney. He served with the English during the Earl of Desmond Rebellion in 1580, and assisted Sir John Perrot against the Scots of Ulster in 1584. In the following year he was allowed to attend parliament as Earl of Tyrone, though Conn's title had been for life only, and had not been assumed by Brian Hugh's constant disputes with Turlough were fomented by the English with a view to weakening the power of the O'Neills, but after Hugh's inauguration as the O'Neill on Turlough's resignation in 1593, he was left without a rival in the north.
    His career after his return to Ireland in 1568 reflects the chaotic state of affairs. At first he remained loyal to his English connections and led a troop of horse in the Queen’s pay during the Desmond rebellion of 1569; but in 1588 he gave succour in Inishowen to survivors from the wreck of the Spanish Armada and awakened in the English suspicions of his loyalty.
    In 1590 he was involved in the killing of Hugh Geimhleach (Fettered Hugh), son of Shane O’Neill, but after a visit to London received the Queen’s pardon. He divorced his first wife in 1574; his second wife died in 1591, and in Aug of that year he eloped with Mabel Bagenal, daughter of Marshal Bagenal, who refused to give her her dowry and thus became O’Neill’s implacable enemy. The marriage came under strain because, O’Neill said, ‘I affected two other gentlewomen,’ and Mabel left him and made public complaint against him to the Council. In the same year he engineered the escape of Red Hugh O’Donnell from Dublin Castle.
    In 1595, on the death of Turlough O’Neill, he was inaugurated as the O’Neill in traditional fashion. He was publicly proclaimed a traitor in Newry in Jun 1595 but in the autumn sued for peace and pardon. From subsequent events it would seem that he wanted temporary peace merely to gain time until Spanish aid should arrive. In Dec his wife died at Dungannon, and in the spring of 1596 he married his fourth wife, Catherine Magennis.
    http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/Bios/HughOneill.htm

    So you would think he would have little issues showing up all over the place and you would wonder how illegitimacy was dealt with.


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    #3
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    I think the queen of this thread would have to be the wonderful Lola Montez, married and divorced 3 times although she devoured many more than this in her time. Her most famous sojourn did not result in marriage being her extended stay with King Ludwig of Bavaria. Not bad going for a lass from Sligo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lola_Montez

    Some of the stories about her are legendary:
    Born in Ireland in 1818, she was an actress of questionable morals and talent. By the time she reached San Francisco, she had been through three marriages and numerous scandals involving the likes of Ludwig I of Bavaria and composer Franz Liszt. When Montez took her famed "spider dance" into the gold fields, it wasn't warmly received. In fact, the miners booed her off the stage. She threatened to horsewhip one newspaper editor who had given her a bad review, and dared another to a duel. Montez retreated to Grass Valley in humiliation, yet she remained true to her eccentric nature. She kept a pet bear tethered in her front yard, and she was often seen walking it on a leash.
    http://www.malakoff.com/npfaw.htm


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    #4
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    A bit more on the lovely Lola.

    We seem to forget that there were several Irish courtesans and wives that cast their mark on history
    CDfm wrote: »
    Introducing Lola Montez

    lola_montez.jpg


    I dont think she ever was queen but was a countess.
    CDfm wrote: »
    montezlola.jpg

    The New York grave of Mrs Gilbert a/k/a Lola Montez from Limerick -one time lover of Franz List and mistress of King Ludwig of Bavaria. Also famous for her Spider Dance.

    1224254200091_1.jpg


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    #5
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Biddy Early - faith healer & witch - 3 or 6 husbands
    The Legend of Biddy Early

    Biddy Early was the most famous Witch of Ireland who married her first husband at 20 and her last husband at near 80. Some sources say she married and outlived 6 husbands, some say 4. Of this no one can be sure, but it’s fairly certain that she had at least 3 husbands. There are many different legends about her and her magical powers. She was born Bridget O’Connor in North Clare in 1798. One of the legends says that when Biddy was a young girl she was babysitting a neighbor’s child when the Fairies came, took away the human baby and left a “changeling” in its place. The Fairy child grew to be very fond of Biddy so he gave her a magic “blue bottle”, which gave her the power to see into the future and to cure all sorts of ills. A sip from her bottle was known to cure anything. At sixteen, she was sent to Feakle (Eastern County Clare) to work as a servant girl and later to Kilbarron to work for a doctor Dunne. It was in Kilbarron that she married Pat O’Malley, a widower, and the couple had one child, a son. Her husband Pat was to die after a few short years of marriage. On her husband’s death, she married her stepson John O’Malley. John died in 1840 and she married her third husband, Tom Flannery of Finley
    .

    http://www.sacredsitetour.com/sacred-sites-of-ireland/biddy-earlys-homestead.html


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    #6
    goose2005
    Registered Users Posts: 4,798 ✭✭✭goose2005


    Brian Boru had four wives (Mór, Echrad, Gormflaith, Dub Choblaig).


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    #7
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    goose2005 wrote: »
    Brian Boru had four wives (Mór, Echrad, Gormflaith, Dub Choblaig).

    Marriages were an important way of making alliances .

    What benefits were there for Brian Boru out of the marriages.


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    #8
    Agus
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Agus


    CDfm wrote: »
    Marriages were an important way of making alliances .

    What benefits were there for Brian Boru out of the marriages.

    They would all have been good matches from a political point of view. i just looked them up and:

    Mór was the daughter of the king of Uí Fiachrach Aidhne of Connacht.

    Echrad was daughter of the king of Uí Áeda Odba, a branch of the Southern Uí Néill

    Gormfhlaith was the daughter of Murchadh mac Fhinn King of Leinster and sister of his son Máel Mórdha, also king of Leinster. She was also the widow of Amlaíb Cuarán the Uí Ímhair Norse-Gaelic king of Dublin, and the mother of his son Sitric Silkbeard, king of Dublin.

    Dub Choblaig was the daugher of Cathal mac Chonchobhair mac Thaidhg, king of Connacht.


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    #9
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Turlough O'Donnell lord of Tír Chonaill from 1380-1422 had 18 sons by 10 women and 6 recorded wives



    2ff2ba0051687eef5ca0459cf942940c_L.jpg Turlough of the Wine's wives and children
    O'Donnell chieftain with many wives and dozens of children
    In late medieval times marriage practices in Gaelic Ireland were often a great deal more lax and easy going than in subsequent centuries. A very good example is Turlough of the Wine (an Fhiona) O'Donnell, who was lord of Tír Chonaill from 1380-1422. The O'Donnell genealogies (see illustration) which date from the sixteenth century with some late additions from the 1660s indicate that Turlough of the Wine had eighteen sons by at least ten women. The names of Turlough's wives which are recorded indicate that he married into the ruling O'Neill family of Tyrone and also took wives from amongst the families of his sub-chieftains in Tír Chonaill, families such as O'Doherty of Inishowen (two wives), O'Boyle of Boylagh, McSweeney Doe and O'Cullinane (all one wife from each family).
    As a result many O'Donnells alive today living in County Donegal and indeed all over the world are descended from Turlough of the Wine O'Donnell. However, due to the many wars in medieval and early modern Ireland and the dispossession of the O'Donnell families by the English, most memories and records of genealogical links with this famous chieftain have been lost. However, the story of Turlough of the Wine O'Donnell and his imense family is a very interesting genealogical one.


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    #10
    Adrian009
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Adrian009


    In Gaelic-Irish society, the top boys could have multiple wives at the same time, much like some Muslim commuities. Some of the Gaelic Ard Ri's had anything from six to twelve wives.


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    #11
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    Brian Boru 4 wives and 30 concubines- what was he doing in the tent at the Battle of Clontarf preying ?

    He is a bit different to the Brian Boru I learned about in school.

    I wonder if Rome viewed the Irish nobility as oversexed barbarians etc when they gave the lordship of Ireland to the English King.


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    #12
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    This is off topic but the Papal Bull Granting the Lordship of Ireland to Henry is controvercial and not universally accepted .

    Some links for those interested

    http://www.libraryireland.com/HullHi...Appendix1a.php

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudabiliter

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laudabi..._Alexander_III

    Did Irish priests etc follow Rome and did they marry ???

    It might be something worth looking at.


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    #13
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,284 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    They did follow Rome, and they didn't marry.

    But, having said that, for a long time "following Rome" didn't mean very much in practice. Ireland was a long way from Rome and, in medieval conditions, it wasn't easy for someone in Rome to exercise practical authority in Ireland. So the Irish church could cheerfully profess communion with Rome and organise its affairs more or less how it wanted - and it did. As it happens, married clergy was not one of the things it wanted.

    I suspect that the Bull in favour of Henry II was indeed partly motivated by a desire to see Ireland brought into a sphere in which the authority of Rome meant a bit more in practice. In the late medieval period there certainly was an attempt to bring the Irish church more into line with European norms - e.g establishing a proper system of dioceses and diocesan bishops.


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    #14
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    I have split the topic of Pope Adrian etc off to here

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71468854#post71468854

    So back to marriage Brehon style .

    Did the Normans adopt it .


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