The lotterys fixed?

todolist · 25-10-2010 7:24pm

copacetic wrote: »

Really? Do tell. Someone has a conspiracy theory that the money didn't go to hospitals. I've never seen anyone claim that people didn't win before? or the draws themselves were fixed. Where is the proof, who 'revealed' it?

Besides despite all that, the sweepstakes draws wasn't made live on TV with an auditor present.

A recently published book details the whole sorry story of the fraud that was the Irish hospital Sweepstakes.The book is "The Greatest bleeding Heart Racket in the world" By Damian Corless.RTE had a documentary about it a few years ago too.It's amazing the whole thing is forgotten.

uprising2 · 26-10-2010 2:04am

Nozebleed wrote: »

if its fixed somehow by using magnets...surely all the magnetic balls would stick to the other magnetic at the same time? it is fixed..how im not sure.

Hollow tin balls dipped in plastic would solve your problem.

To be honest it wouldn't need too many people to fix it, it would only really take the official, I wouldn't say too many people get to handle their balls.

I was only talking about this the other day, this is the truth, believe it or don't, but one saturday about 15 years ago or so, I was listening to a scanner radio, just scanning through frequencies and I came across somebody speaking on a walkie talkie, telling somebody to give her a five, give him a three, then the sounds of the RTE studio sound effects and the presenter (could have been Mike Murphy??, not sure!), but 2 seconds after the man gave a number the presenter could be heard announcing a 3 star prize or whatever number had just been won on the "random" machine.
I heard this with my own ears and a few in RTE have to be in on it, I heard this a few hours before the "Winning Streak" or whatever it's called was shown on the TV..

But, yeah, the lotto, I'd say would be rigged, everything else is, the shadow economy and all that, even if only for the PR around the "one" winning ticket, wouldn't have the same affect if 20 or so people happened to win it together.

Here's a quote from an article about the british lottery.

Completed in early 2002, the nine-page document entitled 'The Randomness of the National Lottery' was meant to offer irrefutable proof that it was random. But the statisticians who produced the report, Dr John Haigh and Professor Charles Goldie, members of the Royal Statistical Society and readers in mathematics at the University of Sussex, hit a snag. The lottery seemed not to be as subject to chance as it should be. Some combinations popped up with 'unusually high' frequency, and others showed a 'major departure from randomness'.
The revelation of the report's existence is bound to spark public interest. The commission has regular calls from people suggesting the lottery is not random, allegations that have to be investigated.
The two academics found that 38 was drawn so many times that they wondered whether it needed to be 'physically examined' to see if there was an anomaly in the balls' make-up which meant it was sucked out of the lottery machines more often. The report also found that the 'bonus ball', drawn from the Lancelot machine using one particular set of balls, would usually be a high number - 40 or above. In addition, the Thunderball game produced freak patterns. Draws that were four weeks apart seemed to 'talk' to each other. If one draw favoured a high set of numbers, there would be a correspondingly low set four draws later.
Perhaps alarmed at how the findings would be received, the commission did not publicise them, simply noting in its annual report that a Royal Statistical Society study had 'confirmed that results were consistent with the draw being random'.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2004/dec/12/lottery.uknews

The lottery is a business after all, so I don't think anybody should be shocked to think it could possibly be fixed.

Basically what the above means is that if the National Lottery Lotto draw was fair, then considering you pay €1.50 per line, the jackpot should be a minimum of over €12M every time! So you could look at it like the National Lottery is only giving you 16% of what you should be getting, if you win a jackpot of €2M.
But it gets much worse as you go down the payout structure...the real odds of getting 5 number plus the bonus are 1,392,317 / 1. If you match 5 plus the bonus, you get...wait for it...€25K!! If they were fair about it you would be getting over €2M, which means they are paying you only approx. 1.2% of what you should get. Unbelievable.
http://www.lottoresults.ie/analysis

Jesus Wept · 26-10-2010 2:31am

Carra23 wrote: »

I have been saying it's some how rigged for a long time but my theory is based on the fact that if you do a quick pick say of two lines , 9/10 times you will get at least one number on both lines. I know this wont gaurentee no winner but it just reduces the chances. If you've got 3 on both your lines and 3 doesn't come out your lines are dead. Coupled with the OP's theory it would be very easy to rig.

Well spotted.
I have a system I've been working on since 1996 that has paid dividends, I am contantly refining it and am writing an e-book at the moment.

sbsquarepants · 26-10-2010 10:27am

The-Rigger wrote: »

Well spotted.
I have a system I've been working on since 1996 that has paid dividends, I am contantly refining it and am writing an e-book at the moment.

Tell the truth, are you the rigger?

I don't believe it's rigged, the problem lies in the vast majority of people don't really understand probability.
For example if the numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6 came out most people would be shocked, but they're no less likely than any other set of seemingly "random" numbers.
I agree it can appear that there is always a roll over coming up to bank holidays, but in the grand scheme of things 10 or 12 bank holiday mega jackpots in a row is inconsequential, it only seems like it is to us because we think in smaller scales.

bonkey · 26-10-2010 12:24pm

Carra23 wrote: »

I have been saying it's some how rigged for a long time but my theory is based on the fact that if you do a quick pick say of two lines , 9/10 times you will get at least one number on both lines. I know this wont gaurentee no winner but it just reduces the chances.

It doesn't effect the chances of hitting the jacpot one iota.

In fact, if you had two lines and one of them was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and the other was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, you'd still have exactly the same chances of hitting the jackpot as with any other two lines.

Diabhal Beag · 26-10-2010 9:53pm

It is a fix. On Winning Streak there is always 4 Dubs and 2 people from the country (shameless boggers)

espinolman · 28-10-2010 11:29am

Its probably not fixed , i think its that possibly they have one of these , that it appears to be rigged .

spoonface · 28-10-2010 11:40am

dimejinky9 wrote: »

ok, a mate just left KPMG and told me the lotto is rigged, this is how apparently,

the machines go around the country go off at 7 or 730 which gives them time to determine which combinations of numbers havent been played by anybody and which have been played, that then determines what numbers go into the drum.

its not filmed live, they have 2 different sets of balls, one set with magnets in and one with none, and the 7 numbers they want drawn are put in with the magnets inside, the rest obviously are ordinary balls, the sucker yoke that pulls the balls out actually has another magnet in it as well so they obviously get to choose which numbers come out and pretty much when its won or when to let it roll over...they 'fix' it in the run up to every bank holiday weekend especially, letting it roll over in the weeks prior, and using statistics, selecting the numbers that come up most often in effect choosing a winner.

it's simple when you look at it. I see it but i'm not sure i'm buying it?

If this is really true, would your mate be willing to be interviewed anonymously for a newspaper article to blow the lid off this?

Carra23 · 28-10-2010 3:11pm

bonkey wrote: »

It doesn't effect the chances of hitting the jacpot one iota.

In fact, if you had two lines and one of them was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and the other was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, you'd still have exactly the same chances of hitting the jackpot as with any other two lines.

I beg to differ ! If like the OP suggests , the people running the lottery can control what numbers come out then surely they can have some influence on what numbers people are given when they choose quick pick.

So if they just choose 6 numbers and make sure every quick pick has at least one of them numbers on each line and they decide not to pull those numbers out in the draw , then every single quick pick bought is dead in the water which greatly reduces the chances of some one winning the jackpot.

My theory with the quick pick thing isn't just pulled from my imagination . I play the lottery regularly Wed/Sat every week for years and always do quick pick. I never kept stats but I would guess at least 8 out of 10 times I get at least one number on both my lines ! Could be coincedence but it's odd all the same

RGDATA! · 28-10-2010 5:13pm

spoonface wrote: »

If this is really true, would your mate be willing to be interviewed anonymously for a newspaper article to blow the lid off this?

stokes, kennedy and crowley would have him 'disappeared' before you could say 'independent adjudicators'

Kashkai · 28-10-2010 6:19pm

Interesting theories...........................

I play four panels, 2 of my own numbers and 2 "quick picks" and while I've won a few quid and some scratch cards on my own numbers, I've never won anything on the quick picks.

Where a computer is used to select numbers at ramdon for "quick picks", this is open to intervention on behalf of whomever controls the computer. Similarily, whomever owns the lotto balls, has access to change their weight to ensure that certain numbers come out.

zenno · 28-10-2010 6:40pm

anything with large amounts of money involved is fixed/rigged/corrupted. this goes for the Lotto as well.

david75 · 28-10-2010 9:46pm

Carra23 wrote: »

I beg to differ ! If like the OP suggests , the people running the lottery can control what numbers come out then surely they can have some influence on what numbers people are given when they choose quick pick.

So if they just choose 6 numbers and make sure every quick pick has at least one of them numbers on each line and they decide not to pull those numbers out in the draw , then every single quick pick bought is dead in the water which greatly reduces the chances of some one winning the jackpot.

My theory with the quick pick thing isn't just pulled from my imagination . I play the lottery regularly Wed/Sat every week for years and always do quick pick. I never kept stats but I would guess at least 8 out of 10 times I get at least one number on both my lines ! Could be coincedence but it's odd all the same

Bingo. Now you've got it

Spoonface, i'll ask but I doubt it. Even if an ex employee, there'd still be contracts to cover clients confidentiality and privacy i'd image, especially on this level. I'll ask though.

SparrowTown · 28-10-2010 10:03pm

david75 wrote: »

Bingo. Now you've got it

Spoonface, i'll ask but I doubt it. Even if an ex employee, there'd still be contracts to cover clients confidentiality and privacy i'd image, especially on this level. I'll ask though.

would a contract that allowed /covered fraud be valid?

david75 · 29-10-2010 1:03am

His employment contract meant. Even after youve left you arent usually allowed divulge company procedure/policies/secrets.

Carra23 · 29-10-2010 9:31am

What about the 'Monday Millions' standard jackpot of 1 mill , never rolls over regardless of whether it hasn't been won or not ! I have never heard of anyone winning it , is there a way to check the stats ?

A wise man once said that the lottery is just an extra tax on the poor unfortunate souls who play it and he was spot on whoever he was.

SparrowTown · 29-10-2010 12:18pm

david75 wrote: »

His employment contract meant. Even after youve left you arent usually allowed divulge company procedure/policies/secrets.

if the procedures were illegal that is not valid is it? would he not be witholding info of a fraud

seamus · 29-10-2010 12:25pm

dimejinky9 wrote: »

ok, a mate just left KPMG and told me the lotto is rigged, this is how apparently,

One person from KPMG attends the RTE studio and watches the balls being loaded into the drum and selected. He is otherwise not involved in configuring the drum, does not handle the balls, and it's always one of the same small group of KPMG employees - a partner or director. They don't select KPMG employees at random and send them to the studio.

So even if you do have a mate who just left KPMG he would have never been in a position to even become remotely privvy to any details of the lotto. He's telling you porkie pies unless he himself was a high-level member of management and had been directly involved in fixing the lotto.

Ciaramb92 · 30-10-2010 7:35pm

caseyann wrote: »

That shouldnt be allowed as then they are controlling who goes on and when.I mean the names pop up on screen before he even read it. Thats called choosing and blocking people from getting on who should have.

Someone else might have said it already but Winning Streak is recorded in the afternoon. That's why the name appears on screen at the same time it's drawn!

Galway K9 · 01-11-2010 9:29pm

Ciaramb92 wrote: »

Someone else might have said it already but Winning Streak is recorded in the afternoon. That's why the name appears on screen at the same time it's drawn!

When he pulls out a card, and cant read the writing, he gets prompted from somewhere. The screen thing is for the audience.

quasar2010 · 15-11-2010 5:39pm

Have a look at this concerning lottery fixing. I think this guy may well have something:-
http://featherstonesmad.smfforfree4.com/index.php/topic,1684.msg8143/topicseen.html#msg8143
Cheers.

meglome · 15-11-2010 5:47pm

quasar2010 wrote: »

Have a look at this concerning lottery fixing. I think this guy may well have something:-
http://featherstonesmad.smfforfree4.com/index.php/topic,1684.msg8143/topicseen.html#msg8143
Cheers.

Don't suppose it was you who posted the thread on the other forum too was it?

quasar2010 · 15-11-2010 5:52pm

No, i'm part of the team that created the forum and I saw the posts and then looked into what he's saying and i found this place.

Dude111 · 16-11-2010 2:57am

I dont know if it is or not BUT I DO KNOW ONE THING!

I made a program on my COMMODORE 64 to duplicate a lotto game we have here in the USA called "Quick Draw"

I DID NOT EVER WIN ANYTHING BIG THE YEARS I HAD IT!!!!!!!! -- Maybe $50 virtual dollars a few times

I DIDNT RIG ANYTHING WHEN WRITING IT

(I used standard randomise routines)

Its all about the randomisation of numbers (Its amazing what numbers are picked AT RANDOM (Example: Sometimes 22,23,24,25,26,27 came up during a draw which is insane!!))

Sadly i spilled ICED TEA on that disk and i couldnt pull the program off of it

LESSON: Be very careful if you have sticky drinks around your values!

Rabble Rabble · 16-11-2010 2:55pm

humanji wrote: »

Roll overs mean that the next jackpot is higher. A higher jackpot will have more people entering in order to win it. More people entering it means more profits for those who run it. And when they do pay out the jackpot, it's only a tiny amount of the total profits, so they make a fortune.

so all they have to do to increase the number of rollovers is increase the odds.

Any brainics here want to prove, mathematically, that the odds are greater for a rollover on Bank Holiday weekends - i.e. the previous weeks are more likely to be not won.

( I hope the fact that the larger numbers are more likely to be won is not surprising anyone).

Rabble Rabble · 16-11-2010 2:56pm

Dude111 wrote: »

I dont know if it is or not BUT I DO KNOW ONE THING!

I made a program on my COMMODORE 64 to duplicate a lotto game we have here in the USA called "Quick Draw"

I DID NOT EVER WIN ANYTHING BIG THE YEARS I HAD IT!!!!!!!! -- Maybe $50 virtual dollars a few times

I DIDNT RIG ANYTHING WHEN WRITING IT (I used standard randomise routines)

Its all about the randomisation of numbers (Its amazing what numbers are picked AT RANDOM (Example: Sometimes 22,23,24,25,26,27 came up during a draw which is insane!!))

Sadly i spilled ICED TEA on that disk and i couldnt pull the program off of it

LESSON: Be very careful if you have sticky drinks around your values!

What are you talking about.

Rabble Rabble · 16-11-2010 3:03pm

I have been saying it's some how rigged for a long time but my theory is based on the fact that if you do a quick pick say of two lines , 9/10 times you will get at least one number on both lines

It is not that unlikely, now is it, that some numbers would repeat in a random pick of lines.

Tell us. How many lines do you normally pick? Do you really expect that if there are 8 lines that a number would not repeat.

You are noticing the numbers which do repeat. The chances of a number repeating is very very very high.

Nothing to see here, expect the Irish State needs to spend more money on maths.

seamus · 16-11-2010 3:07pm

Any brainics here want to prove, mathematically, that the odds are greater for a rollover on Bank Holiday weekends - i.e. the previous weeks are more likely to be not won.

Well it can't be proven mathematically because the format of the game doesn't change on bank holiday weekends.

It could however be proven statistically if someone had such statistics and could show that rollovers more often occur before bank holiday weekends than any other weekend.

todolist · 16-11-2010 5:36pm

Carra23 wrote: »

What about the 'Monday Millions' standard jackpot of 1 mill , never rolls over regardless of whether it hasn't been won or not ! I have never heard of anyone winning it , is there a way to check the stats ?

A wise man once said that the lottery is just an extra tax on the poor unfortunate souls who play it and he was spot on whoever he was.

I checked the stats over on the lotto.ie website.So far this year there has only been two winners,(April 12,July 26).Thats 41 draws so far this year with just two jackpot winners.It's an abysmal ratio of winners.

seamus · 16-11-2010 6:05pm

todolist wrote: »

I checked the stats over on the lotto.ie website.So far this year there has only been two winners,(April 12,July 26).Thats 41 draws so far this year with just two jackpot winners.It's an abysmal ratio of winners.

Depends on the numbers who play tbh.

The odds of winning an individual Monday millions draw are about 1 in 3.2 million.

So the odds of an individual winning over 41 draws are 41 in 3.2 million or about 1 in 78,000.

That two people have won the prize over 41 draws suggests that about 160,000 people play Monday millions on a weekly basis. That is, if 160,000 people play 41 draws and the odds of winning at least one of those draws is 1 in 78,000, then it stands to reason that 2 people will win the jackpot in that time.

Looking at the actual figures, my estimate is a bit off. Around 10,000 people match 3 balls each week. The odds of doing that are 1 in 30. Which when expanded, says that about 300,000 people play on a weekly basis (or more correctly 300,000 lines are played on a weekly basis).

That suggests that in fact 3 people should have won by now. But two winners is well within the expected domain. If no-one had won by now, you could raise an eyebrow. Or if we were expecting 20 winners, you could be suspicious. But the figures appear to tally, however low the figure is. Statistically speaking, now is the time to play Monday Millions because we're due another winner (and a second soon after).

Of course, this is engineered, rather than fixed. The possible prize is €1m, but they only take in €300,000 on a weekly basis, and pay out about €75,000 in prizes. So they need five weeks to build up a prize fund to cover a win. Without profit. Or ten weeks if they want to give out a €1m jackpot and make €1m on top of that.
At the current stage we are now 40 weeks into it and expecting at least one more winner, after which the national lottery will have made a profit of €5m (but will be expecting another winner of €1m).

So Monday millions can't rollover because the jackpot massively outweights the number of people playing. The main lotto rolls over because the money on offer is a reflection of the number of players - more players == more money.

The lotterys fixed?

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