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Why would you give Labor your vote ?
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And you believe that, why ? because the friend in the FF spin dept told you so. Do you really think that only 5% of people want to know what FF is conspiring to spending 2 or 3 generations worth of tax on. I am not an 'insider' I don't have access to 'inside' information, but I would think a much, much, larger percentage of people want to know up front, what FF intend doing with my future, my childrens and my grandchildrens future!!!I remember talking to a friend in the FF press office and I was giving out that FF treat us like idiots by not discussing important aspects of our economy (NAMA etc). . They told me that most people do not want to know about it . . they want to be told everything will be alright and that they wont have to pay much more for it. . Apparantly I am in the 5% minority that actually want to see everything . . I want to see how the government comes to a conclusion on something and what sort of SWAT (strengths, weaknesses , opportunities, threats) analysis has been done. But apparantly, most people dont want to know about it. . They just want things sorted. . .0 -
invinciblePRSTV wrote: »Because i'm pretty sure you have no intention of voting Labour and are just looking to attack them.
Exhibit A:
You sound like the kind of guy who misses the PDs, maybe get onto McDowell and try and get him to stand again?. At the very least your politics seem centre right. I doubt Labour would ever appeal to your type.
Hold on hold on . .
This is just annoying now . . I am not what your conspiracy suggests . BUT .
Lets assume I am . . (I am only doing this to move the debate along, so I can actually get an answer from you (you must be a Gilemore follower with this kind of attitude).
Lets say I am this Labor hater . . Well show me up big cahoona . . Show all the world how wrong I am . . Or are you just going to keep calling me a labor basher as if that actually makes any differance or validity to my points ?
Again, can you enlighten us on how labor will deal with the banks, the public service, the croke park agreement and the 3bil cutbacks ?. .0 -
Well i'm neither a LP member or supporter but i'll take a bash at answering your questions but only if you tell us why you persist in spelling Labour incorrectly.0
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And you believe that, why ? because the friend in the FF spin dept told you so. Do you really think that only 5% of people want to know what FF is conspiring to spending 2 or 3 generations worth of tax on. I am not an 'insider' I don't have access to 'inside' information, but I would think a much, much, larger percentage of people want to know up front, what FF intend doing with my future, my childrens and my grandchildrens future!!!
Yes, I believe it because somebody in FF press office told me. . :rolleyes: They were refferring to the usual strategy in anything PR related. . Try to appease the masses . . Its not brain surgery.
I believe it because the poles back up this suggestion . . When people really want something they can get it (pensioners, public servants) . . Yet no protests about the banking enquiry. If there was enough interest we would of been told everything, but most people just want it sorted.
The way the electorate votes supports this . .People constantly voting in corrupt or idiotic TDs (dont need to mention names).
Support of party's usually favours those offering the most to the individual (how else have FF been in power so long?). . How else do we find ourselves with such a lame government that everybody is resigned to having to choose one of ?
Our electorate dont appear to have the vision to see beyond local politics or the good auld skin who tells us what we want to hear. Sure FG followers of Kenny think that its more important to have a leader who done the party well, then what the people of the country want.
Nobody has yet to tell us what Gilemore is actually offering (but I am supposedly an Labor basher for ASKING!) . .
I tell you what, you tell me anicdotaly even, how you believe a majority of people have shown that they really want to know everything that has happened (or are they more focused on just getting FF out of office!). .0 -
A good read here lads some informative stuff.
My understanding (very basic stuff) on the whole thing is:
People don't like FF because
- Tainted with corruption
- Got us into the mess
- We're paying more taxes, have less money and less jobs
- Bertie
So they're making a change.
I do think people aren't actually looking into the other parties thoroughly enough and just think "I don't like FF any more, I don't like Enda Kenny so I'll just go for the next one."
Something similar to lisbon, "I don't know what this is about so I'll just vote no"
I'm of the opinion where if you dont know what or who you are voting for then null your vote or do more research.0 -
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invinciblePRSTV wrote: »Well i'm neither a LP member or supporter but i'll take a bash at answering your questions but only if you tell us why you persist in spelling Labour incorrectly.
To save time .
Ok . .
-NAMA
-Banks In general
-Public Service
-Croke Park Agreement,
-3 Bil Cuts
Write away, not what you think, what you actually know for a fact what labour will do and how it will benefit us long term . .0 -
To save time .
Ok . .
Not a good enough answer i'm afraid. Even when it has been consistently pointed out to you you still choose to spell it incorrectly so i'm curious as to your motives. Are you from North America? do you refer to FG as fine gayle or fina fail to save time? Whats your true reasoning?0 -
invinciblePRSTV wrote: »Not a good enough answer i'm afraid. Even when it has been consistently pointed out to you you still choose to spell it incorrectly so i'm curious as to your motives. Are you from North America? do you refer to FG as fine gayle or fina fail to save time? Whats your true reasoning?
I had my suspicions and don't mind getting a yellow card for this but you sir are a troll . .
Don't understand why its ok to be one , but not say it when its blatantly obvious. .
There are other forums where you can go and have a laugh at political debates, this is not one of them . .0 -
I didn't say a majority, but certainly more than 5%. Without any anecdotal evidence,I would begin by taking anything said by FF press dept with a pinch of salt. I and most of my friends have certainly become more exercised by the situation, we find ourselves, unemployed, wage cuts, negative equity, children emigrating, of course we want to know what's going on...I tell you what, you tell me anicdotaly even, how you believe a majority of people have shown that they really want to know everything that has happened (or are they more focused on just getting FF out of office!). .
I do agree with a some of the other things you are saying...0 -
I had my suspicions and don't mind getting a yellow card for this but you sir are a troll . .
Don't understand why its ok to be one , but not say it when its blatantly obvious. .
There are other forums where you can go and have a laugh at political debates, this is not one of them . .
With the greatest respect chum clearly you are the one displaying troll like behaviour here. You have your opinions on Labour this is clear from both your posts in this thread and elsewhere, your disdain for them permeates all your posts, you're not looking to learn about Labour Policy but just looking to attack them. I've called you on your nonsense try and wriggle your way out of it if you like.0 -
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invinciblePRSTV wrote: »With the greatest respect chum clearly you are the one displaying troll like behaviour here. You have your opinions on Labour this is clear from both your posts in this thread and elsewhere, your disdain for them permeates all your posts, you're not looking to learn about Labour Policy but just looking to attack them. I've called you on your nonsense try and wriggle your way out of it if you like.
My post was . . Why would you vote for labour ?
You think this is trolling, but arguing on the spelling of the name of the party isnt ?
I am very clear about what I want. .I want answers to my questions which you appear to be either unable or unwilling to provide . . Put either of those facts together and you are either just trolling or trying to disrupt a debate on the party . .
I have a problem with politics in this country . . People who ask questions of one party are assumed to be followers of their rivals. .
I want the spotlight to be on all parties . . FF have been rightly getting both barrells for over 2 years now. .FG have a good amount of scrutiny on their own leadership, but Labour have been having a free ride of it all the time and have gone top of the polls as a result . .
People in this country only choose to educate themselves when they are in dire straights (unemployed etc), but we need to get more involved in politics even when times are not so bad . .
Many people have opted to hold onto their anger which can be good in times of change or to push change but can cause them to make incorrect choices. On a human level, few people make rational correct decisions when they are angry or ill informed. . The spike in labours support can only be explained by the disillusionment with FG and the anger towards FF.
I have asked people to tell me why labour are getting so much support and people cannot actually provide credible definitive reasons and that scares the hell out of me . .
I have friends and family who say "will never vote FF" which I find irrational and just knee jerk counter productive anger . . FF are not the problem, its certain members of the party . . And the people who vote in politicians of all partys are us, the electorate, so we have to accept responsibility for the lack of options on show. . (just look through my posts and you will see that I blame the electorate, not labour, for our problems).
I am picking on labour, because there needs to be clinical, proper debate on their policies that publically look whim-sickle. . FG and FF have been bashed and talked to death (I have been involved in many heated debates, please feel free to look through all my posts). I am genuinley looking for somebody to show how they are a credible alternative . . I cannot understand what Gilemore has done to gain popularity, other then bash FF more convincingly then FG and say alot of stuff that appeals to most of us . .0 -
I didn't say a majority, but certainly more than 5%. Without any anecdotal evidence,I would begin by taking anything said by FF press dept with a pinch of salt. I and most of my friends have certainly become more exercised by the situation, we find ourselves, unemployed, wage cuts, negative equity, children emigrating, of course we want to know what's going on...
I do agree with a some of the other things you are saying...
To be honest, because they are the FF press office does not mean their strategies should be dismissed . . If anything, they are better at spinning then anybody and should know what pushes the buttons of the Irish people (hey they have been fooling us all for years right?)
I believe that we (myself included) have let ourselves down by not asking enough of our politicians. . At the end of the day, most party's have principles we can all believe in to a degree, but its the people in office that decide which ones are more important. .
Just look at all parties core principles and you would say to yourself "god, I would vote for them in a heartbeat", but then you see the actual "players" on show and think, but sure that guy is useless . .
People should get less involved in who the party is and focus on the candidates and getting them principle orientated. . I have no doubt that there are very good people in politics who are discouraged from doing the right thing in many cases because their electorate would make them pay for it (because as an electorate we have short term memories, we want long term strategies with no short term pain). .
Why else are all government strategies usually looking to keep most expenses at the start of their terms and give our "bonus's" of some sort near election time ? Because thats what "we" want and respond to. .0 -
My post was . . Why would you vote for labour ?
You think this is trolling, but arguing on the spelling of the name of the party isnt ?
I am very clear about what I want. .I want answers to my questions which you appear to be either unable or unwilling to provide . . Put either of those facts together and you are either just trolling or trying to disrupt a debate on the party . .
I have a problem with politics in this country . . People who ask questions of one party are assumed to be followers of their rivals. .
I want the spotlight to be on all parties . . FF have been rightly getting both barrells for over 2 years now. .FG have a good amount of scrutiny on their own leadership, but Labour have been having a free ride of it all the time and have gone top of the polls as a result . .
People in this country only choose to educate themselves when they are in dire straights (unemployed etc), but we need to get more involved in politics even when times are not so bad . .
Many people have opted to hold onto their anger which can be good in times of change or to push change but can cause them to make incorrect choices. On a human level, few people make rational correct decisions when they are angry or ill informed. . The spike in labours support can only be explained by the disillusionment with FG and the anger towards FF.
I have asked people to tell me why labour are getting so much support and people cannot actually provide credible definitive reasons and that scares the hell out of me . .
I have friends and family who say "will never vote FF" which I find irrational and just knee jerk counter productive anger . . FF are not the party, its certain members of the party . . And the people who vote in politicians of all partys are us, the electorate, so we have to accept responsibility for the lack of options on show. . (just look through my posts and you will see that I blame the electorate, not labour, for our problems).
I am picking on labour, because there needs to be clinical, proper debate on their policies that publically look whim-sickle. . I am genuinley looking for somebody to show how they are a credible alternative . . I cannot understand what Gilemore has done to gain popularity, other then bash FF more convincingly then FG and say alot of stuff that appeals to most of us . .
Chum i read your posts. Your politics are centre right this is clear, you claimed you were a floating voter when this is incorrect you only vote for parties of the right which share your outlook that the Gov is and was doing the right thing. You have it in your head that somehow the LP are in thrall to the Unions and this is responsible for the countrys woes (a rich irony considering you are an admitted FF voter - a party which has a practically symbiotic relationship with the Unions) but still find time to admire Lenihan & Bruton.
In short i doubt there is anything any person could say to you to convince you to vote for a party of the left, and i think if you are honest enough you'll admit this yourself.0 -
invinciblePRSTV wrote: »Chum i read your posts. Your politics are centre right this is clear, you claimed you were a floating voter when this is incorrect you only vote for parties of the right which share your outlook that the Gov is and was doing the right thing. You have it in your head that somehow the LP are in thrall to the Unions and this is responsible for the countrys woes (a rich irony considering you are an admitted FF voter - a party which has a practically symbiotic relationship with the Unions) but still find time to admire Lenihan & Bruton.
In short i doubt there is anything any person could say to you to convince you to vote for a party of the left, and i think if you are honest enough you'll admit this yourself.
With all due respect, if you read my posts and took it that I am far right, anti Labour then you are either not understanding my point or you are just looking to annoy me and spoil this thread . .
How can you know "I cant be convinced"?
You haven't even tried to put anything forward or made any references to labours policies, yet you say I wont listen to reason ? :rolleyes:
Whether you think I am far right or agenda orientated or not makes no difference, if the questions I ask cannot be answered properly . .
if you want to continue pointing out my spelling errors or arguing over my own political preference (that you have way off), please open a thread somewhere else and we can discuss these issues and troll the hell out of each other (see who can annoy who the most). .
However, if you would like to actually be a part of the debate, I invite your views, opinions and alternative suggestions to my queries regarding labour . .0 -
I would vote Labour if they gave me a hint as to how they are going to cure a few problems like:
Unemployment
Budget deficit
National debt
Banks crisis
Crime
Health service funding
Education funding
Social welfare funding
Poverty problem
Future pension problem
Stop recessions
Continuous economic growth
Reserves of 100b to meet unexpected problems in the future
Have a few more things on my mind but if they as I said HINT at how they are going achieve the above they will have a 1/2/3 for their candidates in the coming GE
Looking forward to the experts enlightening me on the genius of Labour0 -
How can you know "I cant be convinced"?
You haven't even tried to put anything forward or made any references to labours policies, yet you say I wont listen to reason ? :rolleyes:
Why should i argue and defend LP policy seeing as i have no affiliation to the party? you have a browser, use it FFS!.Whether you think I am far right or agenda orientated or not makes no difference, if the questions I ask cannot be answered properly . .
I didn't say your politics were far right i said your politics are centre right, A scan of your posting history suggests this to me and thats all i have to go on.if you want to continue pointing out my spelling errors or arguing over my own political preference (that you have way off), please open a thread somewhere else and we can discuss these issues and troll the hell out of each other (see who can annoy who the most). .
I quizzed you on your motivations for deliberatly mis-spelling of Labour when it was continously pointed out to you by other posters. If you can't even spell the parties name correctly, or even just use an appropriate abbreviation, then why should people take what your pronouncements about 'gilemore' & 'Labor' seriously?.However, if you would like to actually be a part of the debate, I invite your views, opinions and alternative suggestions to my queries regarding labour . .
Again i suggest you use your browser. The LP homepage has their policy documents for all to see and if you want more specific details then i suggest you click onto oireachtas.ie and check all submissions made by the LP to the various policy committees, it's what i do when i want info rather then whinging on boards that i can't find the info i'm looking for.
This isn't rocket science lad ffs.0 -
Given all the support for labour, is there anybody out there who can speak up for them with credible points ?
Referring us to their website is like Brian Cowan referring to all the great things he has done for the country and not debating the things he got wrong . .
Questions have been asked and answers are not being provided . . Please all labour supporters enlighten us cynics . .0 -
Referring us to their website is like Brian Cowan referring to all the great things he has done for the country and not debating the things he got wrong
“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”
You wanted LP policy i pointed you in the right direction, I'm sure you have the critical faculties to work out the rest for yourself, if not then well that reflects on your own failings more then anything tbh.0 -
invinciblePRSTV wrote: »“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”
Right back at you buddy . . The concept of "open debate" obviously escapes you . . Not only that, if somebody questions the policies of a party that needs to be objectively analysed, you question their motives as if it makes their questions any less important?. Is that not an ignorant assumption ?
You come to a discussion webforum and wont debate the topic in question . . Is that not an ignorant way to get an ill conceived point across?
It is you who rejects open debate in favour of just spoiling the topic . . If anybody is showing ignorance it is not the one asking for questions to be answered, its the one dancing around them . .
You have offered nothing that promotes Labour in this discussion (its taken you 10 or so posts just to refer us to their website!) . .
If anything, you have done a disservice to them by looking like you are just avoiding proper debate in favour of mud slinging and making broad assumptions based on poorly put together opinions. .
This is not the Dail so we dont have to be PC, we can ask tough questions . Given the support for labour, I would of thought there would be some of them on boards.ie who could rebuff the claims made against them . .
What I dont understand is why would a "non troll" want to get involved in a topic they dont actually want to discuss, which is exactly what you have consistently done . . Riddle me that . .0 -
invinciblePRSTV wrote: »Well you are a 'floating voter' who happens to know people in the FF press office. Would i be correct in saying you are in a fact a FF voter? or at the very least a former FF voter?.
You are making ridiculous assumptions based on the fact that he has a mate in the FF press office. FFS have you never had a mate who was involved with a political party other than the one you support?? Actually probably not since i doubt you have too many mates if you spout such sh1t.0 -
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I have friends and family who say "will never vote FF" which I find irrational and just knee jerk counter productive anger . . FF are not the problem, its certain members of the party
...which all members of the party then vote confidence in.
There's nothing "knee jerk" about my opinion of FF, which is complete agreement with your friends and family, because FF have done this time and time again, ever since I can remember with Haughey and maybe beforehand.
Asking "why would you give Labour your vote", while casually dismissing genuine concerns of those who object to FF because of their actions as "irrational and knee-jerk", does seem a little suspect, to say the least.0 -
I don't know if any of ye saw Aprés Match last night featuring "Vincent Brown", "Joan Burton" and "Brian Lenihen". From about 1 minute on they take a good dig at the Labour party's ambiguity.
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Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »You are making ridiculous assumptions based on the fact that he has a mate in the FF press office.
Seeing as the poster subsequently admitted he was a FF voter my initial suspicion was proved correct.Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »FFS have you never had a mate who was involved with a political party other than the one you support?? Actually probably not since i doubt you have too many mates if you spout such sh1t.
Run along lad the growns ups are talking politics, no place for keyboard warriors here.0 -
I would vote Labour if they gave me a hint as to how they are going to cure a few problems like:
Unemployment
Budget deficit
National debt
Banks crisis
Crime
Health service funding
Education funding
Social welfare funding
Poverty problem
Future pension problem
Stop recessions
Continuous economic growth
Reserves of 100b to meet unexpected problems in the future
Have a few more things on my mind but if they as I said HINT at how they are going achieve the above they will have a 1/2/3 for their candidates in the coming GE
Looking forward to the experts enlightening me on the genius of Labour
I presume you are happy how FF and FG propose to deal with these same issues?0 -
I would vote Labour if they gave me a hint as to how they are going to cure a few problems like:
Unemployment
Budget deficit
National debt
Banks crisis
Crime
Health service funding
Education funding
Social welfare funding
Poverty problem
Future pension problem
Stop recessions
Continuous economic growth
Reserves of 100b to meet unexpected problems in the future
Have a few more things on my mind but if they as I said HINT at how they are going achieve the above they will have a 1/2/3 for their candidates in the coming GE
Looking forward to the experts enlightening me on the genius of Labour
It doesn't look like you will be voting for anyone any time soon my friend.
This question can be asked of all the parties, and as with labour the answers will fall way short when scrutinised.0 -
Labour - The No Policy Party or if they have they don't want to tell us0
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I vote for Labour, although the traditional family swing has always been divided between FF & FG, or should I say, twiddle dee, twiddle doo.0
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dicknorris wrote: »Labour - The No Policy Party or if they have they don't want to tell us
Yes, because it's not like they have a website where they cogently outline their policy. FFS - very secret alright :rolleyes: http://www.labour.ie/policy/
The level of debate on this forum really makes me despair sometimes tbh.0 -
Right back at you buddy . . The concept of "open debate" obviously escapes you . . Not only that, if somebody questions the policies of a party that needs to be objectively analysed, you question their motives as if it makes their questions any less important?. Is that not an ignorant assumption ?
You simultaneously maintain that Labour policies will 'collapse' our economy whilst wanting to know what they are. Either you are aware of them and can make such an assumption or you're not and you are talking nonsense, which one is it?
.You have offered nothing that promotes Labour in this discussion (its taken you 10 or so posts just to refer us to their website!) . .
As said i do not represent the LP, however as mentioned i know how to work a browser and can skillfully navigate the Labour & Oirerachtas website, the answers you claim you want to know are all on there but you seem reluctant to want to go looking for them?If anything, you have done a disservice to them by looking like you are just avoiding proper debate in favour of mud slinging and making broad assumptions based on poorly put together opinions. .
The only mud i have slung was when it was thrown at me, i try and maintain politeness to my postings, something other folk like coillte bhoy have difficulty understanding.This is not the Dail so we dont have to be PC, we can ask tough questions . Given the support for labour, I would of thought there would be some of them on boards.ie who could rebuff the claims made against them . .
I don't know, is there Labour people on boards who can simultaneously rebuff your claims that LP policies will 'collapse' the economy and send the country into 'anarchy' as well as provide info on LP policies you say you know nothing about but want to find out about?What I dont understand is why would a "non troll" want to get involved in a topic they dont actually want to discuss, which is exactly what you have consistently done . . Riddle me that . .
What i don't understand is why someone, who has a record of disrespecting Labour without seeminlgy have any info on them to hand, and who has made dire claims of 'anarchy' if the LP were in charge, can then turn around and say with a straight face that i'm a troll. It doesn't add up.0 -
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There are many reasons to vote for Labour. I'll say what I think they are.
1) Labour are not Fianna Fail or Fine Gael or the PD's, as a result people realise that if centre-left, strong regulation economic policy was introduced earlier we'd not be in the mess we are in now.
2) Fianna Fail are incompetent and Labour are not.
3) Labour's leader is the only viable Taoiseach.
4) Labour's policies would have dealt with the banking crisis at less expense to the tax payer. If the banks were nationalised in late 08 early 09 it could have been done for less than 2 billion. Also opposing the guarantee would have meant that moribund bank Anglo-Irish would have hit the wall, which we all want to see.
5) Labour have good policies, 9 policy documents have been written in the last 6 months http://www.labour.ie/policy/
6) Labour are a strong united party. As a result only Labour can offer stable government needed to solve our current mess. If any other party is the largest in the state after the next election, there will be knives stuck in the backs of the various other parties. Not with Labour. Only a Labour led government can last 5 years. Unstable government will see credit downgradings, making borrowings more expensive.
7) Brian Cowen and the architects of the mess are not in our party.
8) Fianna Fail created this mess.
and many more.....0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lvkvyA8ZEI
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