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M3 Clonee-Kells Motorway construction updates

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 wilsoan


    Yes. Office to home (Dunsany to Mullagh) in 35 minutes instead of 1 hour 15 plus. Had the added pleasure of giving abusive gestures to Tara demonstrators on a bridge. I suppose they will now campaign to close the old N3 which is closer to Tara than the M3 and must cause much more distress to the fairies and the spirits of the druids.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    A big thanks to CUCINA and GeneHunt for keeping us updated with loads of pictures.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 428 ✭✭big mce


    Avoiding Kells on a Friday of a Bank Holiday, priceless!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    Well here it is D Day !

    However the initial experience was crap, Toll booth barrier would not raise the barrier for a cashier failure at 4.55 pm! So in tandem with experience from the old M50 barrier days when you gotta honk your horn, you gotta honk your horn in disapproval.
    Miso feckers would not let anyone through free given the queues that were building up. Anyway I got to the toll booth switched off the bike, took off the glove, peeled out the 70 cent to a bewildered cashier. Got started and boy did I give it the welly out of that Toll booth :D

    Timings for the not so legal run were as follows:

    16.54 reset milometer at Pace junction

    17:00 Left toll booth,

    17:06 Passed Junction 6 (Dunshaughlin) :D

    17:10 Passed Junction 7 (Skryne, Johnstown) Slight delay due to traffic coppers before the bridge where the tree huggers were hanging out :mad:

    17:14 Arrived at roundabout at Old Bridge Kilcarn :D

    Disclaimer: This was not a legal speed run, except for Junction 7 to 8!, there will be plenty of opportunity to enjoy the veiws on another day :D

    Distance travelled 19 miles exactly from booth to roundabout (30.5 KPH)

    Distance from Pace slip road (junction 5?) to toll 1.5 miles (2.5 KPH)

    Total distance 33 KPH or 3.3 KPH longer than the old N3.

    Pro's - it is quick to get to Navan

    Con's - Road is muck, it's no M2 thats for sure, the cambers between junction 6 and 7 are tight, as a result it will be speed trap for the traffic cops on the exit round that bend.
    Bend at junction 8 Navan is pure muck before your have the long run at 50 KPH! to the kilcarn roundabout.
    The barrier toll will be a disaster especially in the morning

    Overall, the road will be used by me but I do not like it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    The total tolls from Dublin to Kells are €2.60 one-way - not too bad compared to tolls on other m'ways.

    I presume the toll barriers will have to be lifted if queues build up?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,637 ✭✭✭veryangryman




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,786 ✭✭✭meercat


    clonee bypass-maghera(north of carnaross) 45mins at 4oclock today,a bank holiday weekend.worth it today but 2 tolls at 2euro(van) will work out at 2grand a year.i will be selective about using this motorway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    The total tolls from Dublin to Kells are €2.60 one-way - not too bad compared to tolls on other m'ways.

    I presume the toll barriers will have to be lifted if queues build up?


    Are ya mad or what, see my post previous page, they broke down on all stations, kept the barrier up and forced people to stop and pay. It will be a disaster come Tuesday morning.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    Fiskar wrote: »
    Are ya mad or what, see my post previous page, they broke down on all stations, kept the barrier up and forced people to stop and pay. It will be a disaster come Tuesday morning.

    I'm assuming that was a on-off because it's opening day.

    All other motorways operate under rules that force them to open toll barriers if queues build up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    I'm assuming that was a on-off because it's opening day.

    All other motorways operate under rules that force them to open toll barriers if queues build up.


    Define a queue, enforce a rule.

    Can you find out the rules for this motorway in relation to this as it would be useful to know?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭bauderline


    wilsoan wrote: »
    Yes. Office to home (Dunsany to Mullagh) in 35 minutes instead of 1 hour 15 plus. Had the added pleasure of giving abusive gestures to Tara demonstrators on a bridge. I suppose they will now campaign to close the old N3 which is closer to Tara than the M3 and must cause much more distress to the fairies and the spirits of the druids.

    Yes... I too gave a hand signal... and I wasn't turning right...

    Whitegate <--> Clonee working out at almost bang on 30 minutes travelling in an around 120 kph.... it's a good enough road but feels a little narrow for a motorway....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭gernon



    anyone else think he is really Homer Simpson ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 96 ✭✭Hoof Hearted


    We drove the whole motorway...Great drive. When I saw the bridge with the protesters on it coming up I couldn't resist but to open the sunroof and stick my really pale Irish ass as high as I could, while my buddy driving honked his horn 10 times to make sure we had gotten all the protesters' attention on approaching the bridge. I guess they got more "Hill of Tara" scenery today than they bargained for. My buddy said they kept staring longer than he had expected, but that doesn't surprise me <snip>



    P.S. I bet you didn't know how cold going 120 kph can feel. But refreshing all the same.:)

    Infracted for sheer offensiveness [/mod]


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    Fiskar wrote: »
    Define a queue, enforce a rule.

    Can you find out the rules for this motorway in relation to this as it would be useful to know?

    Send them an email customerservice@eurolink-m3.ie

    or phone them

    01 6910450 - Monday to Friday between 09:00 and 18:00

    These are the rules for the M4 toll, I'm not aware of any queuing problems there.
    The Minister stated that lessons have been learned and applied from the West-Link experience and strong safeguards have been built in to prevent PPP companies earning super-profits and to ensure a high level of toll plaza performance. "The fact alone that the Kilcock/Kinnegad toll concession was only awarded following a strongly competitive procurement process contributed substantially to a good outcome from a value for money perspective."

    "The performance criteria ensure that the tolling facilities will provide an efficient method of toll collection and that there will be little if any delay to users", he said.

    The PPP agreement provides that:

    each automated toll collection express lane will allow unhindered passage of a vehicle with a valid transponder;

    for each direction of approach to a toll station, the average queue of vehicles calculated across all lanes will be no greater than 6 vehicles; and

    the queue of vehicles waiting in any toll lane shall not exceed 12 vehicles at any time.

    A strict performance regime is provided for in the PPP contract to ensure compliance with these requirements. Defaults in performance by the PPP Company lead to the imposition of a financial penalty together with the award of points under a penalty points system which may trigger increased levels of monitoring at the PPP Company's cost and ultimately contract termination. "These provisions while not requiring the barriers to be lifted, clearly incentivise the operator to maintain a high level of service", said Minister Cullen.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    I hope to try out the new motorway next week.:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 844 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    larryone wrote: »
    Any chance you have a GPS device capable of collecting a trace??
    We only have partial surveys on OSM...
    http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.6462&lon=-6.6878&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF

    Hi folks,

    I was out on the new M3 today, travelled the entire length of it, and collected a trace and updated OSM site this evening, I've still a little bit of work on it to do i.e. tagging the route. I got out on it at Kells at about 2pm and travelled east towards Dublin, the west side didn't open for a good 40 minutes later.

    Great to see this road finally open. Its very strange to drive on a newly opened road, seeing the local people standing on the bridges or at the fences along side the motorway waving. I totally agree with Furet that RTE should have made a programme or two about the new motorways opening. I saw a programme on BBC Four a few months back about their motorways opening in UK in the 60's. It was good.:o

    I also saw the Tara Protesters today in Navan before the road opened. Then they moved to one of the overbridges later.

    The Express lanes in the toll plazas are very swift to react to the windscreen tag, however I didn't push it today, I drove through the plazas slowly - I think the M7-M8 and now the M3 toll plaza express lanes are very good. The M1 express lane is a lot slower IMO.

    I found the surface on the M3 mainline to be good... a little bumpy in places, but not as bad as the new section of the M8 Portlaoise-Cullahill Motorway (Didn't travel on the new M7 section yet).

    The dual carriageway north of Kells is a little bumpier with more tyre noise IMO.

    The Navan Link road has a great junction (better that the J3 on the M2 feels bigger or something) however, the surface of this road is piss poor, very bumpy and feels rough under the car, LOTS of tyre noise IMO :mad:

    I was in Dunshaughlin at about 8pm, it was so quiet with only an odd car passing down the street.:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Goodbye Navan Railway Line!:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭oddiot


    Well I took a spin out from the M50 to the end of the M3 and back this evening. Very impressed overall to finally see this project completed. The toll of 1.30 as far as Navan is reasonable in my opinion - isn't this the cheapest toll in the state? As for the route itself, for the most part, I thought it was pretty well constructed; a number of people have mentioned the road being quite bumpy. I found this to be mainly an issue north of Navan/N51, in fact some parts of this section were perhaps the bumpiest bit of motorway I've driven so far in Ireland.

    The route seemed noticably 'curvier' than most other motorways, in that for a lot of the time you can't see more than 500-1000 meters in front of you. This wasn't an issue for sightlines, and in a way it made the route more interesting to drive.

    There were literally hundreds of donut skid marks along the entire route northbound, which is a shame, as it took away from the newness of the surface. As a fortnightly visitor to Galway, I think that the surface layer of the road is of a similar material to that of the Ballinasloe to Galway - not in terms of its smoothness, but in terms of the noise of the friction between the tyres and the road surface. i.e. it's pretty quiet, and you'll notice this heading southbound as you rejoin the Clonee bypass where the 'louder' road surface returns.

    The final junction with the N51 seems to have been planned with a view to continuing the route between the dumbell roundabouts at some date in the long term.

    Finally, I tried tracing the route with an iphone app I hadn't tested before, and that was a mistake. So for the return journey, I used instamapper instead, and I've attached a kmz file of the route which if you play with the time sliders in google earth, it will show you a marker every 15 secs, including the speeds I was travelling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭larryone


    While I am a roads enthusiast, I am 100% behind the protesters on this one. Another route could have been chosen that would have saved time, money, and the damage done. It really takes away from the feeling of seeing another fantastic piece of infrastructure being added.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762



    Yes but he is right about this bit though.
    "The real kicker is yet to come, when traffic levels will show that the taxpayer will start paying millions of euros every year to the toll company, because traffic fails to meet the traffic guarantee which was secretly written into the M3 contract by the NRA."
    However Transport Minister Noel Dempsey, who officially unveiled the motorway, which bypasses Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells, said it was one of the biggest road projects to open in Europe this year.


    That contract thing was a terrible display of idiocy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 844 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    oddiot wrote: »
    The final junction with the N51 seems to have been planned with a view to continuing the route between the dumbell roundabouts at some date in the long term.

    I think you mean the N52;)
    The route seemed noticably 'curvier' than most other motorways, in that for a lot of the time you can't see more than 500-1000 meters in front of you. This wasn't an issue for sightlines, and in a way it made the route more interesting to drive.

    I agree with the "curvier" parts of the motorway, but it's mainly from J6 to J8 which is the curvier section, hope this is not a problem in foggy weather, because around J6 is prone to fog. I'm not sure about any other areas, but I think before J8 could be bad too, because of the Boyne river:eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 478 ✭✭wellbutty


    Is it single or dual carriageway from Kells to the border?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,053 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    wellbutty wrote: »
    Is it single or dual carriageway from Kells to the border?

    Dual


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    larryone wrote: »
    While I am a roads enthusiast, I am 100% behind the protesters on this one. Another route could have been chosen that would have saved time, money, and the damage done. It really takes away from the feeling of seeing another fantastic piece of infrastructure being added.

    I think the protesters were a diverse lot; but none of the clips I saw on Youtube of eminent archaeologists likening construction to "Auschwitz" (seriously) or other such eccentricism made me feel any support for them at all. If a better route existed, then it should have been chosen. You won't get any argument from me on that score.

    One thing you'd also have to consider is that the M3 became the focus of anti-roads demonstrations to such an extent that the entire of the M8, M7, M9 and basically the M6 could be built unhindered. I think we can expect the M20, the Slane and Galway Bypasses and the LOOR to have a far rougher ride when construction eventually starts on these.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I found this clip:


    THE BIGGEST and most contentious single stretch of roadway in Irish history was opened without a hitch yesterday morning.
    Though frequently on the defensive since the M3 motorway was first proposed 13 years ago, the developers of the €1 billion M3 project had their day in the sun.
    Security was unprecedented for an event like this.
    The opening was by invitation only and there were Garda checkpoints at the Athboy interchange where the protesters gloomily gathered at least 2km (1.25 miles) away.
    It was “Spanish weather” according to Iñigo Meirás, the managing director of Ferrovial, the Spanish construction giant which built the project in a joint venture with Irish company SIAC.
    An outsized Spanish flag and the tricolour flew side-by-side at the opening ceremony as a strong sun beat down on the guests who gathered on a stretch between the Athboy interchange and Navan for the ribbon-cutting ceremony.
    Those in attendance were local mainstream politicians, representatives from various local chambers of commerce, a number of clergymen and some of the 1,000 construction workers who worked on the project including a substantial delegation from Spain.
    “This day is for the people of Meath and not for those under the ground,” said former chairman of Meath County Council, Cllr Nick Killian who has been a trenchant supporter of the project from the beginning.
    The protesters who considered the M3 routing through the Tara-Skyrne valley as a desecration of Ireland’s cultural heritage were conspicuous by their absence.
    Onlookers gathered on an overpass, but they were so far away it was hard to see if they were protesters or curious bystanders.
    A Garda helicopter was in operation in the skies overhead monitoring protesters, though none got near disrupting the opening ceremony.
    It was a happy day for Minister for Transport and local TD Noel Dempsey who said his only regret was not building the motorway years earlier.
    The M3 was a “much needed and strategically significant” motorway and he was proud to be the minister responsible for opening it.
    It was a “historic day in a county steeped in history” he said, adding that the best route was chosen. Protesters would beg to differ.
    He said the people of Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells would now get their towns back from the “choking traffic” which had blighted their quality of life for years.
    “All of us who commute or have a business along this route have been looking forward to this day for quite some time and it is great that it has finally arrived,” he said.
    The chairman of Meath County Council, Cllr William Carey acknowledged that there were people upset by the routing of the M3 motorway, but he believed it would be “impossible” to build any road through the Tara area without disturbing remains.
    The whole project constitutes nearly 100km of new road, the largest single road project ever built in the State.
    Along with 60km of motorway, there will be 35km of side roads, 15km of link roads and a 4km N52 bypass of Kells.
    There are tolls at Dunshaughlin and Clonee and one at Grange between Navan and Kells.
    The cost will be €1.30 for each toll.
    The road was supposed to open at 4pm yesterday, but by early afternoon 200 cars had queued up to try and be the first to use it.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0605/1224271906960.html


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    THE Minister for Transport was positively elevating with excitement as he looked out from the podium and surveyed the smooth ribbon of tarmac snaking off towards the Meath skyline.
    "Today is one of the most historic days in the history of this county," he declared, which is a big claim considering that the Royal County has a particularly action-packed past.
    But Noel Dempsey -- or "Minister Noel" as one local councillor addressed him, for, like Madonna, he doesn't need a surname on his home turf -- was fair bursting with pride.
    For the construction of the 60km M3 motorway (or "mohorway" in Meathspeak) was a project most dear to this Trim man's heart. And given the bitter controversy which raged around it for years, Noel must have wondered if this day would ever come.
    There had been howls of outrage from many quarters -- including high-profile citizens such as Seamus Heaney, Paul Muldoon, Louis le Brocquy and the Chieftains -- when the road was routed right through the hills of Tara and Skryne, an area regarded as the spiritual capital of Ireland. Since construction began in 2007, it was dogged by protests, campaigns and court challenges to have the road rerouted.
    And although the campaigners lost the battle and yesterday the ribbon was rolled out for the minister to cut, officially opening the €1bn highway from Clonee to north of Kells, it was clear at the opening ceremony that the gardai feared the protesters might have one last scrap for the road.
    There was a heavy garda presence on the tucked-away stretch of motorway a few kilometres outside Navan; a garda helicopter hovered overhead and there were uniformed bizzies on all nearby roundabouts, ramps and even on the overpass bridges, for fear that some crazed conservationists would suddenly absail into Noel's party like Israeli commandos.
    The small handful of protesters didn't even get within sight of the Minister for Transport and were stranded on a roundabout near Navan town.
    But a large assembly of invited locals and guests did turn up, including almost the full set of Meath TDs -- Fianna Fail's Tommy Byrne, Johnny Brady, Mary Wallace and Fine Gael's Damien English. But Damien's party colleague, Meath East deputy Shane McEntee boycotted the event in protest over the presence of the mineral pyrite in the construction of the road.
    But Noel saw no pyrite before him, only a glorious river of tarmac. And it was all his own work.
    "It's not too often in politics that you get to see a project from its conception, almost, right through to its design and building. But this is one project that I can certainly say I've seen through all of the stages," he informed the crowd, reminding them that his M3 baby had been conceived while he was Environment Minister.
    And such was his interest in the motorway, which now bypasses the traffic-choked towns of Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells, that the road was completed two months ahead of schedule, just in the nick of time for the June bank-holiday weekend.
    After the ceremony, Noel was delighted to talk about the Mohorway.
    "I'm absolutely thrilled, it's a big occasion opening a motorway of any sort. It's particularly a proud moment for me -- I'm here in my own county. It's just fantastic," he beamed proudly.
    The Transport Minister preferred not to dwell on the decade-long battle.
    "There was a lot of controversy generated, but I think this was the best possible route to choose," he insisted.
    "We're in such an historic county, no matter where you went, you were going to have some difficulties, but the €30m that was spent on archaeological digs, the discoveries that have been found, would never have been found without this route. So I think that on balance this is a positive news story," reckoned Noel.
    But not everyone agreed. Yesterday, author Colm Toibin attacked the construction of the road.
    "The desecration of the landscape around Tara was shameful, short-sighted and beyond belief," he blasted.
    And not everyone has given up, now that the road is up and running, with an estimated 37,000 vehicles every day. At the Hill of Tara yesterday afternoon, the Tara Skyrne Preservation Group was assembling for a protest.
    "We don't see today as being a joyous occasion," said one member. But nor do they see their fight as over either.
    "We have applied for the Hill of Tara to be designated a UNESCO World Heritage site and we want the ancestral bones which were disinterred from ancient burial grounds in Ardsallagh and Collierstown to be reburied," said spokesperson Carmel Diviney.
    They are also worried that the road -- as roads have a tendency to do -- will bring with it new development in the valley, with further destruction of ancient sites.
    "We're still watching -- we're guardians of the valley," said Kyrie Murray whose families have lived in the area for 800 years.
    It was a beautiful day on the Hill of Tara yesterday. The road can't be seen from the hilltop, just a rolling landscape to the distant Dublin mountains. Nor was there any noise, save for that of a waming wind rustling the trees, loud birdsong and the contented bleating of sheep grazing on the lush grass.
    Noel may be King of the Road, but despite his claim, it's not as historic as the precious royal seat of Tara. In fact, it's not even close.
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/lise-hand-now-its-only-a-hop-skip-and-a-jump-to-northwest-2208996.html

    It does NOT go "right through the Hill of Tara", and it apparently is visible from the hilltop. Can someone confirm? Any photos of the M3 from Tara?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭locha


    Did M50 Roundabout to Kells in 35 mins this morning a great job... More importantly there ARE issues with two of hte bridges/overpasses, not sure which ones... NRA are not happy but are apparently hoping that the contractor can remedy... essentially they are now fooked as they have opened the road....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Furet wrote: »
    I think the protesters were a diverse lot; but none of the clips I saw on Youtube of eminent archaeologists likening construction to "Auschwitz" (seriously) or other such eccentricism made me feel any support for them at all. If a better route existed, then it should have been chosen. You won't get any argument from me on that score.

    One thing you'd also have to consider is that the M3 became the focus of anti-roads demonstrations to such an extent that the entire of the M8, M7, M9 and basically the M6 could be built unhindered. I think we can expect the M20, the Slane and Galway Bypasses and the LOOR to have a far rougher ride when construction eventually starts on these.

    M20 I reckon will go through pretty much unhindered apart from the landowners naturally. There is nothing of interest along the route at all TBH :D

    Slane will probably be the next fight (as I reckon they picked the route solely to cause delays and thus not have to build it). Galway has its own group of whiners and nothing to do with historical stuff like the M3 crowd mostly were. Shouldnt make it any worse than it is though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    Slane will probably be the next fight (as I reckon they picked the route solely to cause delays and thus not have to build it). Galway has its own group of whiners and nothing to do with historical stuff like the M3 crowd mostly were. Shouldnt make it any worse than it is though.

    Two more reasons why the M20 should not have too many problems. Just as the M3 and N11 attracted most of the attention (and unsuccessfully so), while the interurbans mostly had little attention, the M20 is likely to be down the list of priorities for activists.

    Wish there would be more fuss about planning nonsense mind you, like the county councillors rezoning land along the original path of the N21 Adare bypass, and iirc Carrickmines was linked with planning too, yet the national monument issue got all the attention. And as regards the M3 it does to some extent exist just to re-enforce unsustainable commuting habits (people working in Dublin should be able to comfortably and affordably live there).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    M20 I reckon will go through pretty much unhindered apart from the landowners naturally. There is nothing of interest along the route at all TBH :D

    Slane will probably be the next fight (as I reckon they picked the route solely to cause delays and thus not have to build it). Galway has its own group of whiners and nothing to do with historical stuff like the M3 crowd mostly were. Shouldnt make it any worse than it is though.

    It'll be interesting to see the protesters tactics for the Slane By-pass. 22 people have died on that hill in recent years and bad crashes still happen regularly and if there is another one while they are causing delays (especially if someone dies) I think their PR battle will be lost.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Is this really how the M3 flows into the new 2+2 N3 near Kells? I always assumed the two would flow into each other seamlessly, please tell me you don't have to negotiate 2 roundabouts here!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭irishdub14


    murphaph wrote: »
    Is this really how the M3 flows into the new 2+2 N3 near Kells? I always assumed the two would flow into each other seamlessly, please tell me you don't have to negotiate 2 roundabouts here!

    I dont know, but if it is its probably a future-proofed junction for if or when they extend the M3...

    I'm guessing though!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭bauderline


    murphaph wrote: »
    Is this really how the M3 flows into the new 2+2 N3 near Kells? I always assumed the two would flow into each other seamlessly, please tell me you don't have to negotiate 2 roundabouts here!

    Yeah, the mototway ends with two roundabouts a two stretches of 2+2, no big deal really... doesn't delay much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    bauderline wrote: »
    Yeah, the mototway ends with two roundabouts a two stretches of 2+2, no big deal really... doesn't delay much.
    Are the two roundabouts either side of a bridge (ie, do they form part of a dumbell interchange)? Or is the M3, the roundabouts and the continuation N3 all on the same level?

    This is such a shoddy way to connect 2 dual carriageways together, one being a motorway! This doesn't happen anywhere else a motorway joins a dual carriageway as part of the same continuous route AFAIK (N6-M6, N7-M7, N11-M11 (twice), N8-M8).

    It may not delay much but for the want of a single flyover it shouldn't delay at all tbh.

    Edit: if this is indeed a flyover with 2 roundabouts either side of it, it is almost a carbon copy of the southern termination of the Ballymena Bypass which was designed for future connection to the never built "middle bit" of the M2. In the end they dualled the A26 (what has already been done with the N3) and 30 years later ran the M2 through the junction to flow directly into the A26. At least they had a reason: the A26 was S2 when the M2 was built and wasn't dualled until years later. The M3/N3 setup however seems quite bizarre to me, would love if someone could get some pics of the lay of the land there if possible please!


  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Bog Butter


    Would someone have a link to a map of the M3; one which i could look at the different exits? Thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    malman wrote: »
    Would someone have a link to a map of the M3; one which i could look at the different exits? Thanks


    http://www.eurolink-m3.ie/index.aspx?menu=5&context=1

    Basically Junction 5 is Pace, 6 is dunshaughlin, 7 is Skryne, Johnstown, Junction 8 is Navan,


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    From the M3 website;
    The largest motorway project in the history of the state

    I know its an infrastructure forum, but that statement mocks and be-littles the inter urban motorway programme, which was far more important. Many busier routes could have benefitted from such an onslaught of motorway construction in one tranch.

    The M3 stinks of something dodgey and for the record Im not one of the eco warrior types concerned with Tara.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,599 ✭✭✭Fiskar


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    From the M3 website;



    I know its an infrastructure forum, but that statement mocks and be-littles the inter urban motorway programme, which was far more important. Many busier routes could have benefitted from such an onslaught of motorway construction in one tranch.

    The M3 stinks of something dodgey and for the record Im not one of the eco warrior types concerned with Tara.


    Have to agree and disagree with you on this, very good post though, you ask a good question. One could expand that and ask why there are two Tolls in Meath rather than one and why the bloody M3 didn't stop at Kells althogether.

    If the M3 stopped at Kells with one Toll it would have meant a toll of 1.80 / 1.90€. that would suit a lot of people. Where to put the toll to capture the masses would be the problem to generate revenue for MCC.

    Two Tolls and a longer road will upset those in the Cavan border who are penalised to pay 2 or possibly 3 tolls just to get where they need to.

    Disagree that other roads or areas were more important, please list them. The Navan to Dublin route was the worst in the country and I speak as a motorbike rider, the queues I passed and on days were part of in my car were ridiculous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    malman wrote: »
    Would someone have a link to a map of the M3; one which i could look at the different exits? Thanks

    It's all mapped on OpenStreetMap. Zoom at will, you should find everything you're looking for.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    Fiskar wrote: »
    Disagree that other roads or areas were more important, please list them. The Navan to Dublin route was the worst in the country and I speak as a motorbike rider, the queues I passed and on days were part of in my car were ridiculous.

    For a start Im aware of the traffic situation on the Navan - Dublin route. It was caused by dodgey planning in terms of the amount of house building in Navan and its environs, (and indeed beyond towards Cavan) that was sold to desperate people migrating from Dublin to "afford" a home. The M3 was a capitalisation on this "need".

    The fact that the M3 was a PPP underlines the plan to essentially suck a dependent audience dry on this route. The amount of state expenditure outside of the consortium spend on the road and indeed the consortiums own spend, would have been better spent in fastracking the other interurbans. Huge sums of money were spent on legal and archealogical costs. Furthermore, critical areas such as Newlands cross still remain unsolved. When one looks at the current Government plans on the Navan route, a spend of 1.9 billion (including rail and road projects) looks like absolute lunacy. It has to be the most costliest corridor ever.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭here.from.day.1


    I have been anticipating this since 2006 and got to use it on Friday, roof down, sun shining and a smile on my face. Best thing to come out of Meath in as long as I can remember. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Fiskar wrote: »
    Have to agree and disagree with you on this, very good post though, you ask a good question. One could expand that and ask why there are two Tolls in Meath rather than one and why the bloody M3 didn't stop at Kells althogether.

    If the M3 stopped at Kells with one Toll it would have meant a toll of 1.80 / 1.90€. that would suit a lot of people. Where to put the toll to capture the masses would be the problem to generate revenue for MCC.

    Two Tolls and a longer road will upset those in the Cavan border who are penalised to pay 2 or possibly 3 tolls just to get where they need to.

    Disagree that other roads or areas were more important, please list them. The Navan to Dublin route was the worst in the country and I speak as a motorbike rider, the queues I passed and on days were part of in my car were ridiculous.
    Nothing a couple of bypasses around Dunshaughlin and Navan couldn't have sorted, plus a bit of 2+2 online upgrading of the old N3 (there was plenty of room along most of it) would have produced a similar end result to road users and would have saved them €5.20 a day in tolls. The M3 looks nice, but it was a scam that will make Eurolink lots of money, even if nobody uses it, that's how dodgy it is.

    Btw, your point about the road stopping at Kells is moot, you can always use the new bit of 2+2, come off at Kells, trundle along the old N3 until past the first tolls, then join the motorway and just pay €1.30.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    From the M3 website;



    I know its an infrastructure forum, but that statement mocks and be-littles the inter urban motorway programme, which was far more important. Many busier routes could have benefitted from such an onslaught of motorway construction in one tranch.

    The M3 stinks of something dodgey and for the record Im not one of the eco warrior types concerned with Tara.

    The M3 stinks of something dodgy because it is now the fourth motorway passing through count Meath, the home of the minister for transport.

    Not surprisingly, being from Cavan I am going to defend the M3. I think the need for the M3 is justified as it serves a large population. The M2 on the other hand is a complete waste of money and M3 should have been given priority over this from when the inter-urban motorway programme was first developed.

    I use the M2 regularly when travelling from Cavan to Dublin and there is very little other traffic on it. Currently the NRA encourages hauliers heading north to Derry to use the M1 as far as the N33 road to Ardee, avoiding the dangerous sections of the parallel N2 in the environs of Slane, Collon and Ardee. Monaghan traffic uses the M1. When the M3 is opened the M2 will only serve Ashbourne and Slane. These could have been accommodated off the M3, Ashbourne traffic via Ratoath turnoff and Slane traffic as far as Navan and then take an improved N51 (or M1). Accessing Slane from Navan side would also avoid the need for the controversial Slane bypass as most traffic would no longer have to cross the bridge.

    The M2 is too short as well, with only 13km of motorway and 4km of duel carriageway. There are only two junctions southbound, St. Margarets/Blanchardstown and Ashbourne (south)/Ratoath/Swords, and one northbound, Ashbourne (south)/Ratoath/Swords. Given the lack of junctions and limited destinations I think a national primary road standard or possibly 2 plus 1 would have sufficed. If the option of using the M2, which is free, was removed it would increase numbers on the M3.
    Fiskar wrote: »
    Have to agree and disagree with you on this, very good post though, you ask a good question. One could expand that and ask why there are two Tolls in Meath rather than one and why the bloody M3 didn't stop at Kells althogether.

    If the M3 stopped at Kells with one Toll it would have meant a toll of 1.80 / 1.90€. that would suit a lot of people. Where to put the toll to capture the masses would be the problem to generate revenue for MCC.

    Two Tolls and a longer road will upset those in the Cavan border who are penalised to pay 2 or possibly 3 tolls just to get where they need to.

    The M3 motorway does stop at Kells but 10km of duel carriageway continues from Kells to Carnaross, which I think is to be designated N3 now. I disagree with the one toll suggestion. The motorway should have been extended to bypass Virginia from the projects inception but there was not enough political will in Cavan therefore the new roads stop at the Cavan border. Tolls are set at €1.30 so I would be quite happy to pay an extra 50-60c if it meant I could travel from New Inn (Cavan side of Virginia) to Mulhuddart on uninterrupted motorway.
    murphaph wrote: »
    Nothing a couple of bypasses around Dunshaughlin and Navan couldn't have sorted, plus a bit of 2+2 online upgrading of the old N3 (there was plenty of room along most of it) would have produced a similar end result to road users and would have saved them €5.20 a day in tolls. The M3 looks nice, but it was a scam that will make Eurolink lots of money, even if nobody uses it, that's how dodgy it is.

    Btw, your point about the road stopping at Kells is moot, you can always use the new bit of 2+2, come off at Kells, trundle along the old N3 until past the first tolls, then join the motorway and just pay €1.30.

    Bypassing towns and upgrading the N3 was never an option, makes a lot more sense to just build a new road. If motorway was extended past Virginia people would be less likely to turn off the motorway to avoid a second toll.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 692 ✭✭✭CUCINA


    The M3 open at last! I enjoyed following its progress over the last few years...

    In general, I would concede that there is an element of using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, in terms of the main purpose of the M3 being to by-pass the towns of Dunshaughlin, Navan, and Kells. Perhaps the same result could have been achieved by less ambitious means.
    If they were given a choice, I would suggest that the people of Meath and beyond would have preferred an efficient and affordable rail line rather than a motorway. But to use that terrible phrase favoured by politicians, we are where we are!

    Speaking as a resident of Dunshaughlin, the opening of the M3 is good news, even if I never use it myself. Up to now, I relied a lot on back-roads to get from Liffey Valley to home. But on Friday evening, after the M3 opened, I drove virtually unhindered from Clonee Village, over the new Bracetown bridge,along the N3 (now the R157?) and straight into Dunshaughlin. This was a real joy, especially compared to the bad ol' Celtic Tiger traffic.

    My wife and I went for a spin on the whole of the M3 and we were suitably impressed. It was amusing to see the tree-huggers using the infrastructure to stage their protest at the building of the road!
    We carried on up to the outskirts of Cavan town, and coming back from there later, it took just over an hour to get back home.

    Anyway, I'll now have to find a new hobby other than taking photos of the M3!


  • Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    As far as I can see the best long term planning here would be to build the M3 onwards bypassing both Virginia and Cavan on their eastern side. Then have the road turn back eastwards to pass Clones on the east and Monaghan on the west and reach the border where the exiting N2 does. Exits could be provided for all of these towns and link roads in.

    The M2 then from its current end then should turn westward to join the M3 at a new interchange north of Dunshaughlin (Junction 6a). This would have to be tolled along the same lines as the toll between Junctions 5 and 6 on the M3.

    Doing this would give us a motorway to the border serving the main towns of Meath, Cavan and Monaghan along the way and eliminating the need for any major work along the N2 corridor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Is the link road from the trumpet to south of Navan built to full motorway specs? If so it's pretty interesting as an S2 would have sufficed (as was used at Kells onto the trumpet there) and I suspect this could be a short length of any future DOOR.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,125 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    The M3 stinks of something dodgy because it is now the fourth motorway passing through count Meath, the home of the minister for transport.
    Ok, if you think "4" motorways in County Meath is a waste of money, consider that:
    1. The M1 and M4 are both long distance motorways forming part of the Major InterUrban routes (MIUs) to Galway & Belfast respectively.
    2. The M2 is relatively short.
    3. The M1 and M4 both spend very little time in Co. Meath, the M1 along Meaths' very short coastline and the M4 dips in and out of Co. Kildare.
    By your rationale, you should count the M6 is being Meaths fifth motorway (pork bonanza) since it technically starts on the Meath side of Kinnegad.http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.4493&lon=-7.1042&zoom=14&layers=B000FTF
    Makes about as much sense as calling the M1 a Meath motorway but it seems fashionable among M3 bashers to do just that.

    Also, take a map of Ireland. Take out a protractor. Put the base of it on Dublin City Centre, and check out how much of the boundary of Dublin County, both by degrees and by length, is a boundary with Co. Meath.

    Just a quick glance on OSM suggests that more than half of Co. Dublin's landed county boundary (by length) is with Co. Meath, with Wicklow and Kildare respectively making smaller lengths.

    Finally, Meath's aparent good fortune has nothing to do with having a Meath minister for transport as these projects were planned at the time when Seamus Brennan (RIP) and Martin "e-voting" Cullen were at the helm in that department.

    Anyways enough of that.

    I have two questions about the M3 design.
    Firstly, at the end here:
    http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.71743&lon=-6.89491&zoom=16&layers=B000FTF

    it shows what looks like room for a future extension of the M3 between those 'sliproads,' is that the plan? Is that short stretch of N3 DC between the two roundabouts on a bridge? What's the deal there? Is it "on the ground" built in such a way as to allow an easy extension? At first glance, the layout looks ridiculously overcomplicated, particuarly for N3>N52 or N3 Cavan>Dublin traffic.
    Secondly, about the trumpet junction at Kells, what the @#$% is that all about?

    I mean, they go to all this trouble to build a grade separated junction much like the trumpet at Navan, then they put this silly roundabout in the middle of it all that, from what I can see, serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,143 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    SeanW wrote: »
    Ok, if you think "4" motorways in County Meath is a waste of money, consider that:

    My point was that the M2 was a waste of money, not every motorway that passes through Meath.

    Jayuu wrote: »
    As far as I can see the best long term planning here would be to build the M3 onwards bypassing both Virginia and Cavan on their eastern side. Then have the road turn back eastwards to pass Clones on the east and Monaghan on the west and reach the border where the exiting N2 does. Exits could be provided for all of these towns and link roads in.

    Doing this would give us a motorway to the border serving the main towns of Meath, Cavan and Monaghan along the way and eliminating the need for any major work along the N2 corridor.

    Jayuu's suggestion for the M3 to be extended to serve Cavan and Monaghan is interesting. I dont think it is very realistic though because Monaghan town is currently only an hour and a half from Dublin via the M1. I dont think an extended M3 would be any faster when travelling from Monaghan and although I would love to see the motorway as far as Cavan (being a Cavan man myself) the population doesnt justify this. Like I said in my earlier post Virginia should be bypassed and the N3 from there to Cavan is good enough considering traffic volumes are quite low and then Cavan town is already bypassed.
    Jayuu wrote: »
    The M2 then from its current end then should turn westward to join the M3 at a new interchange north of Dunshaughlin (Junction 6a). This would have to be tolled along the same lines as the toll between Junctions 5 and 6 on the M3.

    Totally agree that the M2 should be linked to the M3 as you suggest here. This would provide an excuse for tolling the M2 which will otherwise be used by people avoiding the M3 toll. The toll should be the Dublin side of Ashbourne and match that on the M3. How difficult would it be to put in barrier free tolling like on the M50 instead of building a toll plazza? This would allow some money to be recouped from the construction of the utterly pointless M2 and Im sure would increase numbers on the M3 north of Dunshaughlin by offering a different route into Dublin.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The M2 exists because of reclassification, no other reason. Slane should be given an S2 bypass and and new routes sent off the M1.


This discussion has been closed.
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