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Is donating money to charities that operate in Africa a waste of time?

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    #32
    wondering
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭wondering


    cjbh wrote: »
    TBH I have a direct debit going for years (with Trocaire) and I'm just wondering if I should cancel it or not.

    I started it probably to:
    1. alleviate my conscience
    2. I was kinda religious back then and thought my good deeds would be noted :rolleyes:
    3. As someone has said, Africa's problems are a lot worse than ours

    Same as that now... cancelled the direct debit to sightsavers and Trocaire and started a 14 euro direct debit to Barnardos instead, and my call to action was the TV ad. (so I know it cost a lot of money, it is very well made, but it made me donate).


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    #33
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    mike65 wrote: »
    So they are reliant on the whims of a single man (and his missus). Not progress really.

    The Bill+melinda gates foundatin has been responsible for huge progress in the developed world. It's a huge organisation. Not just one man lol.
    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    And that will lead to a population explosion which will lead to famine again
    at some time in the future.

    According to WHO Link, maleria accounts for 18% mortality rates in 0 - 5 year olds.

    So if we completely cure malaria tomorrow, you can expect a population boom of 18%+
    Solving one problem out of a concept of charity, doesn't solve the overall problem. China has population control, and Africa needs it too, or else we're solving one problem only to create another.

    It may sound right wing / nazi or something, but I'm looking at the big picture and not taken in by the marketing photos of big brown eyed children on posters.

    Well, there are more humane ways of population control that are being actively pursued.....later age of marriage, gender equality, accessible birth control. "letting kids die of malaria" wouldn't be one of the more sensible options.
    ascanbe wrote: »
    Africa won't progress further unless it is allowed to trade fairly.
    .

    This is an extremely good point.


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    #34
    Cadiz
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    A stinging article on the subject ..

    http://www.mg.co.za/article/2007-12-03-oxfamming-the-whole-black-world


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    #35
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    While Aid is all well and good and shows that peoples hearts are in the right place, an easing of some of our protectionist agricultural policies would be of far more benefit to the third world.

    Unfortunately it would not be a very catchy election slogan around these parts.


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    #36
    Joey the lips
    Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    cjbh wrote: »
    Let's be honest, the continent is still a bit of a $hithole.

    How do we know our money isn't going straight to some dictator?

    Why is the situation not improving?

    Does it depend on the particular charity?

    I read a brilliant book by an ecomomist on this and having a backround in economics I have to say i believe it is a waste of money. However in my heart I admire the work charities do so find it hard not to give to them.

    But ask yourself this. Look at ICELAND. one the verge of bankrupcy. The IMF and the world bank is helping it. It will prob get by. Look at cameroon. The worlds most corrupt country. The IMF and world bank are helping it to. Why is the money not making it down through cameroon.... Corruption and unstable goverments. The goverments know they will only last till the next coup so take as much as they can.


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    #37
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users Posts: 34,066 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Why donate to Africa when theres people struggling to get by in Ireland?

    I have to say thats a very good point. Its harsh and it be nice to do something for people in these countries but we have to look after ourselves first


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    #38
    flyton5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭flyton5


    I personally refuse to donate any money to african charities on the grounds that sooner or later there will be no incentive for the people of certain countries to do anything for themselves. If anything, projects like Live Aid do more harm in the long run. Population explosion and not nearly enough food to go around is obviously the main problem and then you have AIDs to deal with. Send condoms. Two birds with one stone.


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    #39
    SomeFool
    Registered Users Posts: 2,452 ✭✭✭SomeFool


    cjbh wrote: »
    Is donating money to charities that operate in Africa a waste of time?

    YES :(


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    #40
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,370 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    themont85 wrote: »
    What grinds my gears is people who fundraise money for 'their charity work' for maybe a once of two week stint in a poor country when the money you give is for their flights and they do fúck all over there. I've done some work in these places before and a lot of people just do it for their own experience to see poverty and maybe help a little (which is fair enough), but I reject paying for them to do this.

    I despise people who go on holidays under the aegis of charity.

    I'm not talking about people who actually go somewhere and do something, be it a group building housing, installing water treatment facilities, running a school or a health clinic etc.

    The people who get up my back are people who go mountain climbing 'for charity' and the likes. I went skydiving a while back and while I was waiting for my call up I had a look at some of the brochures, one of them was advocating the practice of 'if you can't afford it yourself, why not do it for charity?' Anyone who can take money for charity when most of the money is paying for 'the experience' has a thoroughly broken moral compass.


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    #41
    Elliemental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 924 ✭✭✭Elliemental


    A friend of the family spent a lot of time in various African countries, working as a doctor for some charity, and I remember her saying that a lot of money donated to the likes of Christian Aid ending up being held back by corrupt government officials etc. The usual horror stories. But organisations such as Oxfam, who`re well used to dealing with these countries are pretty reliable, and always seem to get the Aid through to those who need it the most.
    If people need help, does it matter where they are? Whether its home or abroad, we`re all human.


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    #42
    Jam-Fly
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭Jam-Fly


    Most people here seem to be talking about the big charities, GOAL, Trocaire etc.

    The problem I have with these charities is 1) Much of the money donated goes to advertising, rent cost for offices in Dublin, paying people to do work for Trocaire etc. and 2) If I donate €100, how many people does it go thru before my cash reaches the kids in Africa? And how much of the €100 will that child get?


    What about the smaller charities that don't spend money on stuff like advertising and give the money directly to the poor Africans who need it? What do people think about those charities?


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    #43
    brendansmith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,526 ✭✭✭brendansmith


    Elliemental wrote: »
    If people need help, does it matter where they are? Whether its home or abroad, we`re all human.


    I love helping people be they my own family or someone elses. I think we all need to help those in need.


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    #44
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    I don't know as much about real life in Zambia as the teacher who posted above. I worked as an accountant there for two years in the 1970s.

    Problems in the 1970s were -

    No real democracy. It was a one party state, with an all-powerful president.

    Tribalism. About a dozen main tribal groups. The chief executive of a company will staff it with his own tribe. Worse than black and white.

    Girls will have five or six children before they are 20. Live for the minute attitude. You have a car. Guy has no car. He takes car. Break-ins all the time. Plenty of white-collar crime, and appointees doing no work.

    Unemployment of 70%. No real economy outside copper mining, and state owned businesses (inefficient). Some UK and US multinationals.

    Comfy aid agencies. I was on 8k, some British aid workers were on 70k (UK salary "benchmarked" :) at local 40%+ inflation rates.)

    Wild west enforcement of law. Police largely self governing / erratic.

    No business sense, few trades workers. Daft economic policies e.g. the staple food, mealie meal (corn) had a maximum price. Good for the general public, and popular. Unfortunately, the price set was less than the cost of production so the big farms stopped growing it. Policy fail.

    The solution? Probably none as the top guy takes all the resources.


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    #45
    youareyou
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33 ✭youareyou


    Id donate if I knew all money was to air drop condoms.

    I heard somene say in charity circles "we should be concerned aout concern"


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    #46
    oopsbritney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭oopsbritney


    cjbh wrote: »
    Let's be honest, the continent is still a bit of a $hithole.

    How do we know our money isn't going straight to some dictator?

    Why is the situation not improving?

    Does it depend on the particular charity?

    Yes, and ultimately who controls the spending. Countries whose governments support the likes of Mugabe and have backwards attitudes to AIDS shouldn't get a penny.
    This is some of the nonsense that has to be dealt with.
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-af-nigeria-child-witches,0,5276725.story


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    #47
    Mr Benevolent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,456 ✭✭✭✭Mr Benevolent


    Giving to a charity that does not provide worthwhile services in Ireland is frankly a waste of money. You want proof? Ok. First, the regulations. Charities are required to give a minimum of 5% of their income to charity. Second, the recipient countries. Nigeria admitted to simply stealing $100 billion over 30 years from charities and international foreign aid. Nobody knows where the money went, but suffice to say that plenty of champagne, caviar and private jets were bought with it. Third, the administration foulups. In Ethiopia, five charities purchased five different types of water pump for various villages. None of the parts were interchangeable and the pumps rapidly ground to a halt.

    And that's just the start of it.


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    #48
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    jumpguy wrote: »
    Some poor young fella in Nigeria depends on your donations to live

    Oh i know him..he works the jacks in break for the border.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't give money to Africa. If my money went to either neutering the women or handing out condoms for the men, then I'd know my money was well spent and I'd donate.

    What good is a new well or a cow when the population is sky rocketing. We can't do a thing to help when they won't help themselves.
    Stop having children. It would help the continent more than we ever could.


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    #50
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't give money to Africa. If my money went to either neutering the women or handing out condoms for the men, then I'd know my money was well spent and I'd donate.

    What good is a new well or a cow when the population is sky rocketing. We can't do a thing to help when they won't help themselves.
    Stop having children. It would help the continent more than we ever could.

    So, if we neuter the poor then there will be no more poor people.

    *slow clap*


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    #51
    Prof.Badass
    Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    themont85 wrote: »
    What grinds my gears is people who fundraise money for 'their charity work' for maybe a once of two week stint in a poor country when the money you give is for their flights and they do fúck all over there. I've done some work in these places before and a lot of people just do it for their own experience to see poverty and maybe help a little (which is fair enough), but I reject paying for them to do this.

    I attended a talk from some sort of enviromental charity and it got me thinking, what's our obsession with sending lots of white people to these places? Do we think the native people are incapable of running operations themselves? or is it some sort of guilt thing?

    Surely it would be a better use of resources if these charities paid native people to run things (what with the flights, vaccines, training, finding a place to stay and all the administrative procedures that have to be done beforhand)?

    I haven't really thought this through properly, so i'm not sure how strong this argument is, and it probably wouldn't hold as much for people spending long periods of time over there, but it might be worth thinking about.


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    #52
    i71jskz5xu42pb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭i71jskz5xu42pb


    newmills wrote: »
    I remember jeremy clarkson saying that for every pound donated to africa it will really help a dictator upgrade his mercedes to a newer, better model.

    Well if Jeremy Clarkson said it then case closed.

    Any chance we could donate Jeremy Clarkson to Africa? Is there an asshole shortage there at the moment?


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    #53
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    flyton5 wrote: »
    Send condoms. Two birds with one stone.

    It's bad enough that many of the women there are starving and have Malaria or Aids.

    Let's not turn them into sluts as well.


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    #54
    meditraitor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,207 ✭✭✭meditraitor


    Yes, its a waste of time....


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    #55
    Earthhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 14,714 ✭✭✭✭Earthhorse


    No, it's not a waste of time. It saves lives. Even taking into account corruption and inefficienies lives will be saved.
    apsalar wrote: »
    However, the problem is that ultimately there are many underlying problems with the democracies and indeed economics of some the recipients of foreign aid that are masked by aid. What impetus does a government have to look to the welfare of its own and develop a sustainable economy when a large percentage of their budget may come from foreign donors?

    If you genuinely think that in the absence of NGOs or direct government aid these countries would be shamed into sorting out their problems you're mistaken. This didn't happen before international aid was in place and it won't happen now. Besides, a lot of the power to change things lies in the hands of the international community which is beyond their remit; things like reducing barriers to trade.
    vinylmesh wrote: »
    I attended a talk from some sort of enviromental charity and it got me thinking, what's our obsession with sending lots of white people to these places? Do we think the native people are incapable of running operations themselves? or is it some sort of guilt thing?

    Surely it would be a better use of resources if these charities paid native people to run things (what with the flights, vaccines, training, finding a place to stay and all the administrative procedures that have to be done beforhand)?

    Some charities do have use native field staff in the field. In my opinion, it's a much better approach.


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    #56
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users Posts: 10,894 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    poor people lol


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    #57
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    No it still hasnt made it better there and how many years have many countries public been donating and all the charity concerts.And still every day more.
    They should be forced to have only one child per family.In their circumstances they should not be popping out little babies for starvation and then expecting other countries to fit the bill.What did they do before?


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    #58
    DubDani
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭DubDani


    There was a study done on 20 of the biggest european Charities, and the research showed that it was more or less only a money making scam.

    On average only about 12-15% of the money collected went actually to a good cause. The rest was spent on Admin, Salaries, Advertising, Cost of collection etc. Some of the big well known charities were found to spend 90-95% of the money on Admin costs before any money goes to Africa.

    So out of every 100 Euro collected in Europe in average only 12-15 Euro will arrive in Africa. And out of that 12-15 Euro only about 8 Euro will make it to the people who are really in need.


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    #59
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    DubDani wrote: »
    There was a study done on 20 of the biggest european Charities, and the research showed that it was more or less only a money making scam.

    On average only about 12-15% of the money collected went actually to a good cause. The rest was spent on Admin, Salaries, Advertising, Cost of collection etc. Some of the big well known charities were found to spend 90-95% of the money on Admin costs before any money goes to Africa.

    So out of every 100 Euro collected in Europe in average only 12-15 Euro will arrive in Africa. And out of that 12-15 Euro only about 8 Euro will make it to the people who are really in need.

    What study was this and who were the charities?

    Alot of the comments in this thread seem to be made to have an excuse to not donate to charity, rather than suggesting our aid money is not being spent correctly.


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    #60
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    As I said in Is Aid killing Africa
    Stop the exploitation by Shell, de Beers and similar.
    Many African countries are very rich in resources but still very poor - where does the money go?

    We keep them starving and grateful. Just let them keep and use their own resources.


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    #61
    mega man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 370 ✭✭mega man


    donating money to africa is a complete waste. by the time it gets there most of it is taken anyway.
    if the people cant help themselves they shouldnt receive help from us. africa is a strain on the rest of the world.


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