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RTE News: Brain injury groups call for compulsory helmet use

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  • 09-10-2009 9:30am
    #1
    flickerx
    Registered Users Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭


    Surprised nobody has put this up yet. Its Friday, so I thought it would be appropriate.

    javascript:showPlayer('/news/2009/1007/6news_av.html?2624499,null,230')

    I dont know if that link will work directly, but the link is up on the front RTE page at the moment. Andrew Montague is in there.

    I cant believe the woman from the brain injury group used the term "no-brainer" in relation to the safety implications from wearing a helmet.


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    #2
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Saw that yesterday.

    The irony was that the next news item under that on the website was about obesity and inactivity.

    I asked this before, but have Acquired Brain Injury Ireland made any prominent public statement that isn't about cycling in the last few years? Don't they have professional boxing, excessive drinking or any larger source of brain injuries to think about?


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    #3
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    As long as they also insist on helmets for the two other high risk groups that would benefit equally from them.

    Pedestrians and Motorist deaths would also be reduced by wearing helmets and by a similar % as cyclists.



    Really the money should go into prevention / separating cyclists from motorists on high speed roads and general traffic calming measures on slower roads.


    Haven't they heard of risk equalisation ?

    If you want road safety , insist on harpoons in the centre of steering wheels, and airbags / seatbelts only for passengers.


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    #4
    Doctor Bob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    I've been gathering material on ABII for a while now as a result of their misinformed press releases on Bike Week, the Dublin Bikes and other cycling matters.

    Might be time to get in touch.

    Edit:

    Re comments on other sports/pursuits, how about this gem-
    The brain is a very delicate organ which must be protected when partaking in leisure activities such as cycling, contact sports (rugby, hurling, etc), motorcycling, quad biking and skiing.
    http://www.abiireland.ie/docs/pressreleaseDarrenShanahanapril09.pdf

    Time to get in at the ground floor on the rugby helmets. Who's with me?


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    #5
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    They even list cycling first there, before motorcycling and contact sports. I'm starting to get the impression that they are somewhat obsessive on this issue.


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    #6
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    They can go and sh!te.


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    #7
    ullu
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭ullu


    I saw that, on Six One I think, and promptly forgot about it.

    The no-brainer comment reminds me of the England football squad at the 1998 World Cup. They had a thing where they had to fit as many song titles as possible into their interviews so perhaps the brain injury spokeswoman was dared to do it by her colleagues.

    The reporter was doing her bit to camera at the end when the camera panned to a man cycling the wrong way down Exchequer Street with his son sitting precariously on the top tube.

    At least they were both wearing helmets.


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    #8
    niceonetom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    I fear that they will eventually get their way. It just feels inevitable. :(


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    #9
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    The Dublin Bike scheme really seems to have provoked them anyway.


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    #10
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,038 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    niceonetom wrote: »
    I fear that they will eventually get their way. It just feels inevitable.

    Resistance is not futile.


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    #11
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Anyone know whether Fine Gael has any interest in this topic? They'll be the ones to drive it through if anyone does. Fianna Fail isn' interested, judging by this sentence in the cycling framework document:
    There must be a clear message that cycling is a readily accessible form of transport, not requiring unnecessary encumbrances such as
    specialised cycling attire.


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    #12
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Imagine the mish-mash of token crackdowns and lackadaisacal non-compliance if they passed a law anyway.

    Do we really need the police getting involved in this?


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    #13
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Also, do ABII get public funding to carry out the constant lobbying on this issue? It's a misuse of funds if so. There are much bigger problems in general, and even in the arena of brain injuries.


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    #14
    martyc5674
    Registered Users Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭martyc5674


    Still in all would it be such a bad thing?


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    #15
    niceonetom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    Lumen wrote: »
    Resistance is not futile.

    No, but it is tiring, and I just think that the hysterics have more stamina. In a fist fight between right and crazy, crazy usually wins.

    Their argument is also easier to understand (that does not equate to it being correct by the way) so, from the point of view of a public that doesn't really give a crap either way, it will someday just be easier to give them what they want so they move on to whatever's next on the ban-list. Ladders, or fruit with stones in, or whatever.


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    #16
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    Still in all would it be such a bad thing?
    Yes. The Dublin Bike scheme would be effectively useless. Kids' parent would be brought to court for their kids cycling in the park without a helmet, just as the parents themselves used to do, with no harm to anyone. The percentage of cyclists getting head injuries wouldn't change, and the numbers of cyclists would drop by maybe 25% (look at what happened in Australia and New Zealand).


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    #17
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    niceonetom wrote: »
    No, but it is tiring, and I just think that the hysterics have more stamina.

    I don't think they have more stamina. The anti-compulsion side has to go to work. This IS work for the pro-compulsion bunch. They don't do this lobbying in their spare time, you know.


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    #18
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,038 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    niceonetom wrote: »
    Their argument is also easier to understand

    "Piss off and leave me alone, you interfering busybody" is not a complicated message.


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    #19
    niceonetom
    Registered Users Posts: 4,833 ✭✭✭niceonetom


    Lumen wrote: »
    "Piss off and leave me alone, you interfering busybody" is not a complicated message.

    Simple, yes. Compelling? Not really.

    And it didn't work for seat belts, and nannyism is much stronger now than it was 20 years ago.


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    #20
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Nannyism is definitely stronger now. I wish I could have bought shares in it twenty years ago. I'd be a rich man now.

    Shroud-waving also would have been a good investment.


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    #21
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Seat belt laws never caused a massive drop in driving though. Not that ABII care whether cycling drops. I imagine, from their general tenor, they'd be quite pleased.


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    #22
    Captain Havoc
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 11,391 Mod ✭✭✭✭Captain Havoc


    I think wearing of helmets should be made compulsory for the following reasons a) we wouldn't ever have to hear "should the wearing of helmets be made compulsory" again b) when I don't wear my helmet I would get that rush you get when breaking the law thus making my cycling more enjoyable c) you can carry on not wearing your helmet because in all fairness who is actually going to enforce it?

    https://ormondelanguagetours.com

    Walking Tours of Kilkenny in English, French or German.



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    #23
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Anyone know whether Fine Gael has any interest in this topic? They'll be the ones to drive it through if anyone does. Fianna Fail isn' interested, judging by this sentence in the cycling framework document:
    Fine Gael are the only party that haven't publicly endorsed the document. They are planning writing one of their own (for some bizarre reason).


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    #24
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    jerseyeire wrote: »
    c) you can carry on not wearing your helmet because in all fairness who is actually going to enforce it?
    It will be enforced willy nilly by guards and judges who care and not by others. Leaving us all in a limbo as to what to do.


    The only way they'll get me to wear a helmet is if they buy me a helmet cam.


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    #25
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    For what it's worth, there's a mandatory use law in Spain that is honoured as much in its breach as anything.


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    #26
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    petethedrummer wrote: »
    Fine Gael are the only party that haven't publicly endorsed the document. They are planning writing one of their own (for some bizarre reason).
    That's what I thought. They are definitely the likeliest candidate to push a law through.


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    #27
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    martyc5674 wrote: »
    Still in all would it be such a bad thing?
    Yes, I have read into the studies that have been done regarding wearing helmets and cycling (I believe there is a law in california regarding this). Many of the findings have shown that the numbers cycling is reduced by such laws and there is no decrease in the percentage of brain injuries. Surely the brain injury group should have looked into the studies before making such a stupid argument.

    Cycling has a much more positive effect on the health of Irish people than any brain injury protection has.


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    #28
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,753 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    el tonto wrote: »
    For what it's worth, there's a mandatory use law in Spain that is honoured as much in its breach as anything.
    There's a little discussion of that law here:

    http://ww.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055597148

    It only applies between cities anyway (though according to a document linked to in the thread, the cops have ticketed cyclists in Madrid erroneously).
    http://www.ecf.com/files/2/12/16/071203_three_years_of_mandatory_cycle_helmet_use_in_spain-ECF.pdf


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    #29
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    There's a little discussion of that law here:

    http://ww.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055597148

    It only applies between cities anyway (though according to a document linked to in the thread, the cops have ticketed cyclists in Madrid erroneously).
    http://www.ecf.com/files/2/12/16/071203_three_years_of_mandatory_cycle_helmet_use_in_spain-ECF.pdf

    That's correct yes. There are also exceptions for professional cyclists and amateur racing cyclists, whether racing or in training. So in theory, even if you only did one race a year, you could claim that exemption. You are also exempted "on prolonged ascents or for proven medical reasons or in conditions of extreme heat", the latter of which is hilarious given the country.

    In short, it's practically unenforceable, but could have consequences perhaps in terms of accident liability, e.g. yes motorist may be at fault for running over cyclist but cyclist was neglient for not wearing a helmet.


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    #30
    Doctor Bob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Also, do ABII get public funding to carry out the constant lobbying on this issue? It's a misuse of funds if so. There are much bigger problems in general, and even in the arena of brain injuries.

    This might shed some light. ABII attended the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Children, on 20th May 2008:
    Mr. Kieran Loughran: We need €132,000 to break even. That figure is based on audited and agreed staffing levels and scales. Even within that, we are dependent on fund raising and once-off grants. We pay paltry pensions. The HSE has undertaken a core deficit review and a review of adult day services. Last year, we had a deficit of €34,000 and the HSE now proposes a 1% cut across the board.

    In political circles, much is made of the fragmentation of the voluntary disability sector. We work with our colleagues here and continually propose ways to do that. Much of this view is born of the history of how funding came about and organisations came into being. In 2007, the HSE acknowledged that services were inadequate and at the recent Private Members’ debate in the Dáil, the Minister of State, Deputy Devins, said the Government recognised the need for improved services for those with ABI. Recognising that funding is short, we are merely asking that our funding level stand still at present, with a plan for the future. In January 2007, we provided the HSE with a plan, which, I understand, is in the HSE think tank. That plan dealt with integrated services rather than Headway.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=HEJ20080520.xml&Page=1&Cp=32#N32


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    #31
    JMJR
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭JMJR


    @ mods
    can we have a helmet sticky please as we seem to generate a 'new' thread at least once per week!


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