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Pick n Mix Religion

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  • 24-08-2008 8:42pm
    #1
    Peared
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭


    Some friends of mine had their child christened recently. In the run up to the event she had to teach her fella bits and pieces of church etiquette as he had never been to mass although he did make his communion/confirmation.

    I would say that its fairly common these days and the majority of people I know could be described as lapsed catholics. Thats if they even thought about it enough to come up with a description. For a lot of people, it simply doesn't enter their thoughts or their lives.

    Here's the thing though. Almost all of these people were/will be married in a church, have their kids christened, communioned and confirmed, and will bury their dead with the aid of a priest.

    Is it like a club that you never leave and can summon up to do you a favour when you feel like it? Really it's people thinking it's ok to use the church for, lets face it, social occasions even though they don't believe in what they stand for. I wonder do most people here take a similar stance ie not believe but use it for occasions or cos the parents insist.


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    #2
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    It is an unfortunate reality that with religion pervasive in most state schools, not christening a child despite your own lack of faith would have a detrimental effect on their day to day school life.
    It sucks frankly.


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    #3
    indough
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    i thought that priests were only really supposed to perform these ceremonies for people who they'd known for a while, ie people who go to their church


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    #4
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    indough wrote: »
    i thought that priests were only really supposed to perform these ceremonies for people who they'd known for a while, ie people who go to their church

    Depends on how sexy their kids are.


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    #5
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,235 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Well, there are all kinds of people that make up our world, and I've found that they tend to vary somewhat against any standard that you may measure them by, be it religious faith (or lack of), philosophy, citizenship, education, occupation, socio-economic status, etc. This variation makes them interesting and unique in many ways. It would seem that our sense of community combines a lot of these things that affect us as we grow up, live, and die. If parents want to feel that sense of community, including some variation of religion (or the lack of), and raise their children accordingly, grand for them. If they, or their children when grown want to "Pick n Mix Religion" what matter?


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    #6
    shenanigans1982
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭shenanigans1982


    Peared wrote: »

    Is it like a club that you never leave and can summon up to do you a favour when you feel like it?


    This is religion for the majority of the country, kep it in the back pocket until someone is on their deathbed, rattle off a few prayers and everything will be alright.

    indough wrote: »
    i thought that priests were only really supposed to perform these ceremonies for people who they'd known for a while, ie people who go to their church

    Money will make priests over look this.


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    #7
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    When i die i'm going to be made into a coffee table.


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    #8
    HouseHippo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭HouseHippo


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    When i die i'm going to be made into a coffee table.
    Why a coffee table??


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    #9
    HouseHippo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭HouseHippo


    dr.bollocko wrote: »
    It is an unfortunate reality that with religion pervasive in most state schools, not christening a child despite your own lack of faith would have a detrimental effect on their day to day school life.
    It sucks frankly.
    Totally agree with this, my friends parents are athiests and they had both their kids christened as they didn't want them to be isolated in school......I think maybe the communion confirmation process should be disengaged from school, now that many catholic schools are embracing children of other religions, I think the catholic school should be made a thing of the past also


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    #10
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    When i die i'm going to be made into a coffee table.

    I'd buy that for a tenner on craigslist.


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    #11
    Peared
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭Peared


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Well, there are all kinds of people that make up our world, and I've found that they tend to vary somewhat against any standard that you may measure them by, be it religious faith (or lack of), philosophy, citizenship, education, occupation, socio-economic status, etc. This variation makes them interesting and unique in many ways. It would seem that our sense of community combines a lot of these things that affect us as we grow up, live, and die. If parents want to feel that sense of community, including some variation of religion (or the lack of), and raise their children accordingly, grand for them. If they, or their children when grown want to "Pick n Mix Religion" what matter?

    I'm sorry, what?


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    #12
    Peared
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭Peared


    No, as rambling goes it'll do just fine.

    Edit Ooh ninja edits, verr good.


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    #13
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,235 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Peared wrote: »
    I'm sorry, what?
    Oops, my bad! Forgot I was on AH! Apologies. Let's see, what would have been a more appropriate response... Atari jaguar, Yor Ma, +1, LOL, or Fail?;)


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    #14
    pookie82
    Registered Users Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pookie82


    I agree whole heartedly. It's sickening how many people christen their kids who haven't seen the inside of a church since their confirmation. They stand up on the altar and vow before god to raise their child as a good catholic, renounce the devil lah, lah, lah.... yet the child probably won't see the inside of a church until they're making their communion and are brought by their school.

    It's got a lot to do with keeping up with the jones' and not upsetting families. If I have a child I almost certainly won't be christening it (I say almost as I'll have to take into account what my OH might think). I think it would be hypocrisy of the highest order. the church have become lazy concerning the attending-mass-beforehand rules because they want to keep up the numbers, and would be turning potential christians away on a mass scale if their parents had to be devout mass attenders before the child could be christened.

    It's much more about the occasion of it all and the day out than about the actual meaning of it. I think that honestly, most couples take it for granted and don't even discuss whether or not it should be done - it's just the done thing. Hopefully soon it will die out as people realise that it's hypocrisy on a mass scale and a cruel thing to do to a child who has no say in the matter. Indoctrinating my innocent baby into a church which will condemn them if they turn out to be gay or get a divorce or want to have sex before marriage is not my idea of a celebration of birth.


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    #15
    Peared
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭Peared


    Blue_Lagoon wrote: »
    Oops, my bad! Forgot I was on AH! Apologies. Let's see, what would have been a more appropriate response... Atari jaguar, Yor Ma, +1, LOL, or Fail?;)

    Ah sorry, I took your reply to be patronizing on first read. On re reading I can see it wasn't.

    I aint too proud to apolomogise.


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    #16
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    It's the granny factor. Your ma would never forgive you if you didn't christen your kids.

    This could be the thread where the correct answer actually is

    Yore Ma!


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    #17
    pookie82
    Registered Users Posts: 2,217 ✭✭✭pookie82


    dresden8 wrote: »
    It's the granny factor. Your ma would never forgive you if you didn't christen your kids.

    This could be a thread where the correct answer actually is

    Yore Ma!
    :D:D:D


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    #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    At the end of the day we are still culturally catholic.
    Less pompous rituals seem lacking somehow.

    Personally I don't need any of that....but I won't think less of my friends who buy into.
    Because it only holds as much meaning as they are willing to invest in it.


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    #19
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    I think if people generally believe in their religion,but find the method of worship unhelpful,why not allow them to participate in marriage,baptism,etc,even if they don't go to mass?Or yore ma,whatever!


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    #20
    Wurly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭Wurly


    Mmmm. Pick n mix....

    /salivates


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    #21
    GirlInterrupted
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭GirlInterrupted


    Its an exercise in hyprocisy to indoctrinate your children into a belief system you yourself don't espouse for the sake of a party, whether its christening, wedding or funeral.

    I also object to being described as having a 'lack of belief'. I don't suffer from a lack, I have a total absence of belief, and I'm utterly delighted by it.

    Incidentally I was raised an atheist, and never had more than passing curiosity in it during my school years, and was never once singled out because of it.

    So to use fear of ostracisation as an excuse for making a helpless baby a member of a club they may very well want nothing to do with and find difficult to extricate themselves from, is a vacant fear and an invalid choice.


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    #22
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    What do you mean by 'don't espouse'?I quantified my statement by saying they probably broadly believe in catholicism,but don't go to mass every week.


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    #23
    GirlInterrupted
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭GirlInterrupted


    brianthebard wrote: »
    What do you mean by 'don't espouse'?I quantified my statement by saying they probably broadly believe in catholicism,but don't go to mass every week.
    Sorry, I didn't actually mean to quote you and didn't notice i'd pressed the button :o.

    I'm just ranting generally....apologies.


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    #24
    nomorebadtown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 634 ✭✭✭nomorebadtown


    pffft, at least two of my mates in school weren't christened etc and they had no problem in school. stop sending your kids to those crappy state/catholic schools you filthy povos.


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    #25
    nomorebadtown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 634 ✭✭✭nomorebadtown


    Moonbaby wrote: »
    At the end of the day we are still culturally catholic.
    Less pompous rituals seem lacking somehow.

    Personally I don't need any of that....but I won't think less of my friends who buy into.
    Because it only holds as much meaning as they are willing to invest in it.

    yes but its self propagating! its prolonging the legitimacy and status of the catholic church in state affairs, when really a lot of people don't believe a word of it and are still indirectly pressured into having these crazy voodoo practices performed on their children.


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    #26
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,007 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Catholic guilt - nothing like it. :eek:


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    #27
    Tha Gopher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    pookie82 wrote: »
    Indoctrinating my innocent baby into a church which will condemn them if they turn out to be gay or get a divorce or want to have sex before marriage is not my idea of a celebration of birth.

    Oh jesus christ.


    If the church despised all unmarried couples why do they baptise kids of unmarried parents?

    How many gays, divorcees and non virgins do you know who have been personally condemned at their local mass?

    Ill have the kids christened because it is tradition as much as anything.


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    #28
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,587 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Christenings seem to be a "keeping up with the jones" event for many couples, an excuse for a piss up.

    Technically a Catholic doesnt need to attend Mass each week to be a Catholic. Once a year is the unofficial minimum.


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    #29
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    dresden8 wrote: »
    It's the granny factor. Your ma would never forgive you if you didn't christen your kids.

    This could be the thread where the correct answer actually is

    Yore Ma!

    That would not be very Christian of her, mind did eventually.


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    #30
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    I think it's a mixture of:

    a. Keeping with the Jones'
    b. Not wanting to upset family
    c. Ritual / tradition
    d. Culture
    e. Education (want to make sure they get into a school)


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    #31
    Agent Smith
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    i often think the baptists have it right. wait till the person is of sound age and mind, and allow them to decide themselves.

    I am a roman catholic, and was baptised when i was nearly 2 ( i was very sick as a child) and apparently the local priest out in neilstown nearly had a fit that i hadnt been baptised until then.


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