Questions and Answers on Now

ateam · 09-06-2008 10:46pm #1

Just to inform people that there's a special Questions and Answers on now about the Treaty. Should be good viewing.

is_that_so · 09-06-2008 11:03pm

Surprised John Bowman is not trying to keep a better grip on this. :rolleyes: And nice to see Mary Lou being put in her place. If there are moments as in the GE then maybe this is the one that make sup people's minds. Very late in the day for the Yes to be getting off their arses.

murphaph · 09-06-2008 11:23pm

Michael Martin and Enda Kenny.....are the YES side looking to lose or what?

At least it's a discussion on where the EU is going. Shame the other 486 million citizens aren't involved IMO.

is_that_so · 09-06-2008 11:26pm

Yes not the best pairing you can think of but both have picked off a few points although the choice of Mary Lou and Ganley on the No side makes it easier. Of more interest is what is coming from the floor apart from the very strident Coir individual.

sink · 09-06-2008 11:27pm

That nutter going on about abortion was unreal. It's like she's saying EU law doesn't matter the ECJ is an abominable tyrant that doesn't give a damn about the law.

09-06-2008 11:29pm

Michael Martin and Enda Kenny have been very good actually.
I'm starting to see Enda Kenny in a new light.

Mary Lou has some cheek to be talking about protecting corporation taxation competency.
She wants to protect the competency alright...so she can put it up as high as possible :rolleyes:

lie bertas of course in the shape of that fellah [sarcasm] with the cork accent [/sarcasm] on the panel are being their usual misleading selves.
The abortion interjections by Ganley being an example.

Theres lots of examples of the old addage .."if you repeat something often enough people will start to think it's true.."

sink · 09-06-2008 11:42pm

The best comment was about Mary Lou wanting to stop US flights through Shannon and Declan Ganley wanting to get his kit on them.:D

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 09-06-2008 11:44pm

sink wrote: »

The best comment was about Mary Lou wanting to stop US flights through Shannon and Declan Ganley wanting to get his kit on them.:D

that was wonderful

www.rte.ie/live cut off before the end though, bastards.

the_syco · 09-06-2008 11:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Mary Lou has some cheek to be talking about protecting corporation taxation competency.
She wants to protect the competency alright...so she can put it up as high as possible :rolleyes:

Aye. The shinners seem to have forgotten about their pledge to put corpo taxes to 40% or 50% if they got in power...

jank · 09-06-2008 11:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Michael Martin and Enda Kenny have been very good actually.
I'm starting to see Enda Kenny in a new light.

Mary Lou has some cheek to be talking about protecting corporation taxation competency.
She wants to protect the competency alright...so she can put it up as high as possible :rolleyes:

lie bertas of course in the shape of that fellah [sarcasm] with the cork accent [/sarcasm] on the panel are being their usual misleading selves.
The abortion interjections by Ganley being an example.

Theres lots of examples of the old addage .."if you repeat something often enough people will start to think it's true.."

Sorry but i dont know what show you were watching. Enda was a rambling fool tonight, even by his bad standards he was terrible. If that is the best FG can come up with then we might aswell call off the next GE....and i voted FG last time!:mad: I think the NO vote loved him being on it tonight, as they helped them more

ateam · 09-06-2008 11:54pm

Mordances with the proletariat wrote: »

that was wonderful

www.rte.ie/live cut off before the end though, bastards.

Think it ran over time on tv.

The Choir or something rep made outrageous comments, made a comment about the Yes side shouting and then proceeded to shout over Enda Kenny herself.

Another woman in the audience had the nerve to say that "we" the Irish people don't understand the Treaty. So sick of this argument, it's offensive. She should speak for herself. Most do understand it and those that don't haven't bothered to read up on it.

The argument about the rest of Europe not getting a vote is another red herring, completely unrelated to the Treaty itself and to be honest, so what what other countries do.

The No side has a lot to answer for with regard to complicating this Treaty.

ateam · 09-06-2008 11:55pm

jank wrote: »

Sorry but i dont know what show you were watching. Enda was a rambling fool tonight, even by his bad standards he was terrible. If that is the best FG can come up with then we might aswell call off the next GE....and i voted FG last time!:mad: I think the NO vote loved him being on it tonight, as they helped them more

Same can be said for Mary Lou. Not an Enda Kenny fan but he did ok. Obviously you're a floating and uncommitted voter that regularly changes their mind.

jank · 09-06-2008 11:58pm

ateam wrote: »

Same can be said for Mary Lou. Not an Enda Kenny fan but he did ok. Obviously you're a floating and uncommitted voter that regularly changes their mind.

Ya you like know me so well ...like "Rolleyes"!!

Splendour · 10-06-2008 12:02am

ateam wrote: »

Think it ran over time on tv.

The argument about the rest of Europe not getting a vote is another red herring, completely unrelated to the Treaty itself and to be honest, so what what other countries do.
./QUOTE]

How would you feel if your government decided for you what way they were gonna swing on this? Am sure there are plenty of E.U. citizens would love to be in the postition the Irish people are in now with regards to voting.
It's not what other countries do, but rather what other countries governments are doing...

sink · 10-06-2008 12:04am

Splendour wrote: »

How would you feel if your government decided for you what way they were gonna swing on this? Am sure there are plenty of E.U. citizens would love to be in the postition the Irish people are in now with regards to voting.
It's not what other countries do, but rather what other countries governments are doing...

Ireland were the only country that voted on Nice too. I don't remember anybody making a fuss about it then.

blast05 · 10-06-2008 12:04am

Sorry but i dont know what show you were watching. Enda was a rambling fool tonight, even by his bad standards he was terrible. If that is the best FG can come up with then we might aswell call off the next GE....and i voted FG last time! I think the NO vote loved him being on it tonight, as they helped them more

I would have to disagree, i thought he was pretty good actually - miles ahead of his last major performance against Bertie in the run up to the election. He made at least 4 or 5 well structured and clear points that would have steered voters opinion to Yes .... this is something even Cowen in the same forum would not have been able to do cos he would have been too strong and robust in this situation

mike65 · 10-06-2008 12:06am

I only saw the last few mins online I'll watch it back tomorrow - on P.ie they thought Kenny and Martin (esp Kenny) were poor.

Mike.

ircoha · 10-06-2008 12:06am

ateam wrote: »

Think it ran over time on tv.

The Choir or something rep made outrageous comments, made a comment about the Yes side shouting and then proceeded to shout over Enda Kenny herself.

Another woman in the audience had the nerve to say that "we" the Irish people don't understand the Treaty. So sick of this argument, it's offensive. She should speak for herself. Most do understand it and those that don't haven't bothered to read up on it.

The argument about the rest of Europe not getting a vote is another red herring, completely unrelated to the Treaty itself and to be honest, so what what other countries do.

The No side has a lot to answer for with regard to complicating this Treaty.

Only as red as the yarn by the yes side that they will all be cross at us if we vote NO.

Martin's last comment was the most interesting: the FT want us to vote yes: nuff said:(

ateam · 10-06-2008 12:09am

Splendour wrote: »

ateam wrote: »

Think it ran over time on tv.

The argument about the rest of Europe not getting a vote is another red herring, completely unrelated to the Treaty itself and to be honest, so what what other countries do.
./QUOTE]

How would you feel if your government decided for you what way they were gonna swing on this? Am sure there are plenty of E.U. citizens would love to be in the postition the Irish people are in now with regards to voting.
It's not what other countries do, but rather what other countries governments are doing...

The government decides things for us every single day. We voted them in to do exactly that. They received a mandate.

The fact that other countries haven't had a referendum is none of our business. If the voters are that concerned, they can vote out the party that brought in the treaty, simple as.

ateam · 10-06-2008 12:10am

ircoha wrote: »

Only as red as the yarn by the yes side that they will all be cross at us if we vote NO.

Martin's last comment was the most interesting: the FT want us to vote yes: nuff said:(

What's wrong with the FT?

Call Me Jimmy · 10-06-2008 12:13am

I just don't know, what is this great incentive that that the likes of enda kenny would have for wanting a yes vote? If he thought that something like the corporation tax was in danger what is his incentive for supporting that? People talk about the politicians wanting to get a yes vote to "save face in europe" but even if that was their sole motivation then why do you think they'de be so concerned about that? In that case they obviously see that it would be best for our nation in future dealings.

And then there's the little stuff like us not having a commissioner for 5 years (which is on the libertas banner ad above). Do people just not know that this applies to every member state equally and it's not like for the 5 years we don't have a commissioner that our corporate tax rate, abortion laws and neutrality are in danger because of it. Every country goes for 5 years out of fifteen without one of the people who come up with ideas for legislation that's it. How is that a point that it's bad for ireland? It is obviously done with a view to making the whole thing more efficient.

10-06-2008 12:17am

mike65 wrote: »

I only saw the last few mins online I'll watch it back tomorrow - on P.ie they thought Kenny and Martin (esp Kenny) were poor.

Mike.

I wouldn't mind them [p.ie]
I thought he was excelent actually and so was Martin.For the first time ever I was actually well impressed with Kennys style and the safeness he exuded- ie a safe pair of hands.
More of this please.

mike65 · 10-06-2008 12:19am

I'll judge for myself

Mike.

bug · 10-06-2008 1:01am

Luckily for me, (not having an affiliation/inherited leaning to, or abject hatred of, any particular party or personality on the panel) -I actually found the debate really useful.

As I said in a misplaced post (sorry Oscar),

I trust FF, FG, and Sinn Fein, along with "Devil" Declan

and libertas, equally.

Possibly everyone on that panel has their vested interests - the question is for us is to see passed all this and look at the debate at hand and how it effects us.

Its about the treaty, and debate of it. End of. It's not your a star.

And its not party or personality political.

riff_man79 · 10-06-2008 1:44am

I decided a month or two ago that i was going to vote no on this treaty. Initially , i admit that it was my perception of a treaty being delivered to us in a cloak and dagger sort of way, trying to pass a treaty against the will of the people and all that. So this was my basis when debates in pubs started brewing i realised i, among with most people involved the the debate, i knew nothing about it.

So i researched. I am still voting no for many reasons but i have a two questions and an observation.

The questions are:

If this treaty is so bad for Ireland why are most political parties voting for it?

Do people agree that the majority of the treaty is great for Ireland but there are a few main sticking points that need to be changed for the treaty to be much better, and passable for the no voters?

And the observation. I have enjoyed coming onto boards and reading the educated users thoughts for the pros and cons. But why do the majority of yes voters feel the need to make there point, then throw in an insult to try degrade the others person views. Don't get me wrong, no voters have done the same, but watching Questions and Answers tonight got me thinling for 2 reasons?

Michael Martin and Enda Kennys tactic of continuely talking over Mary and Declan and indeed the man in charge while in reverse there were given the respect when making points more often than not, really annoyed me. How many times did Mary and Declan point out that this is a debate about the treaty and not the political parties in question.

And also, as a lady pointed out in the audience, when the yes side made points they were maybe met with people shouting their opinions but when a no point of few was put forwad it was met with childish boo's and hisses. I have fo me, if i had not done my research that i would still have voted no because of how the yes side conduct themselves. Talking down to no voters, condisending and arrogant. For those of you who do that, shame on you - don't turn your argument into its intelligent people voting yes and stupid voting no, i think we agree with alot of your positive points about the treaty but its the bad things we're woried about - but keep it up because it will turn people to the no side:D

I have no intention to cause arguments just wanted to get my observation out there, but feel free to correct me if you so wish.

My reasons, by the way for voting no would be

Loss of neutrality(a debatable point but in my opinion we will)
Increase in taxes(inevitable i think)
Less power in Europe.
The people in/soon to be in charge in europe(corrupt individuals the government dont want. People who have been charge with embezzlement, allegations of corruption etc)

billy the squid · 10-06-2008 1:59am

The two yes panalists came accross as arrogant and ignorant, as though they had a right to talk over everyone else. Inda must have learned that trick from Bertie when he was doing it during the leaders debate last year.

Call Me Jimmy · 10-06-2008 2:01am

In terms of conduct, I think many on the Yes side are frustrated by some of the downright childish attitudes of some of the No voters. For example, in one of the threads I read someone saying he's voting no because he has the freedom to... that sort of stuff is hard to swallow!

And I don't think that any fair minded person could say the yes politicians did any more speaking out of turn than the no side. In fact, there were very few occasions where enda could get a word in without being interrupted by the opposing panel or the some wench in the audience.

One observation I've made is that through sensationilstic headlines and adverts it has made people feel more strongly either way about this treaty and consequently their seems to be a lot more emotion involved. There is a lot of paranoia and it seems people are grouping themselves as a yes'er or a no'er and viewing the other 'side' as the enemy.

K-9 · 10-06-2008 2:02am

riff_man79 wrote: »

I
And also, as a lady pointed out in the audience, when the yes side made points they were maybe met with people shouting their opinions but when a no point of few was put forwad it was met with childish boo's and hisses.

This was on both sides. The spokesperson for Coir did complain about this and then proceeded to shout her opinions at Enda Kenny when he was speaking for 2 minutes!

Call Me Jimmy · 10-06-2008 2:06am

As I said, no fair minded person could say the yes guys did any more of it than the no side.

riff_man79 · 10-06-2008 2:21am

Seanies32 wrote: »

This was on both sides. The spokesperson for Coir did complain about this and then proceeded to shout her opinions at Enda Kenny when he was speaking for 2 minutes!

I still think theres a big difference to shouting at someone(which i dont agree with when someone is talking) and booing and hissing. But thats just my opinion.

Call me Jimmy, i dont exactly agree. I will agree to your point that there are some silly No voters "i'm voting no because i want my freedom" but i think that both sides have silly people voting wither way for silly reasons.

"And I don't think that any fair minded person could say the yes politicians did any more speaking out of turn than the no side. In fact, there were very few occasions where enda could get a word in without being interrupted by the opposing panel or the some wench in the audience."

Well i think i am fair minded and was open minded for tonights debate. I just felt Enda and Michael talking over Mary and Declan alot right from the beginning,not letting the people here there views. This was the same last time, i really wanted to here important points for the No side last time but everytime something was brought up the Yes side just talked over them. I think Mary Lou did very well tonight, especailly compared to the last time she was on.

"One observation I've made is that through sensationilstic headlines and adverts it has made people feel more strongly either way about this treaty and consequently their seems to be a lot more emotion involved. There is a lot of paranoia and it seems people are grouping themselves as a yes'er or a no'er and viewing the other 'side' as the enemy"

Totally agree,well said.

TelePaul · 10-06-2008 2:45am

I think that the only thing one can say is that the debate was chaired very poorly - chaired may be too strong a word for it in fact. It's a shame, it had potential, and a few issues might have been clarified.

Thought Kenny was quite good, probably the best speaker.

Questions and Answers on Now

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