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Garda Reserve Experiences

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    #152
    karlokarl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭karlokarl


    flat_tyre_again wrote: »
    Nope, An arrestable offence is....

    "an offence for which the penalty can be 5 years imprisonment or more"

    Threatening/Abusive behaviour in a public place (S6 Public Order Act 1994) is dealt with by a max sentence of £500 and/or 3 months imprisonment therefore it is not an arrestable offence under Criminal Law Act 1997.

    If the penalty is less than 5 years in prison then it is not an Arrestable offence in terms of Setion 4 of CLA97. This does not mean you cant be arrested for it, just that you can't be arrested under S4(3) CLA, you would be arrested under Public Order Act S24 for the offence of contravening S6.
    Hope this helps

    Thanks Flat Tyre, that does help, but GR's can't do anything about threatening/abusive behaviour in a public place because it's in the Public Order Act, correct??


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    #153
    flat_tyre_again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭flat_tyre_again


    Well because the GR do not have any Public order powers except for Section 21 when it is envolked by a Super, no, essentially they cannot do anything. However, as the Minister intended, it is always an extra uniform on the street I do not suppose anyone would disagree with a GR giving some "words of advice" as to an individual's behaviour.

    They cannot give a Section 8 direction (leave an area in an orderly and peacable manner) but they can advise a person that they are acting in contravention of a particular section of the act and warn them that they may risk arrest. After this it would be up to a full time member as to whether an arrest is appropriate.


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    #154
    Bren1609
    Closed Accounts Posts: 459 ✭✭Bren1609


    Did anyone see the front page of the examiner today calling for the Garda Reserve to be scrapped?

    Here is the link.

    http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=61635-qqqx=1.asp


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    #155
    colliegG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 81 ✭✭colliegG


    Bren1609 wrote: »
    Did anyone see the front page of the examiner today calling for the Garda Reserve to be scrapped?

    Here is the link.

    http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=61635-qqqx=1.asp

    Yep it's true. The Garda Reserve are the root of every single problem the Gardai have. Getting rid of them is bound to solve everything.

    Jeez what a crock. . .

    Actually I do think they were designed as a PR job but I refuse to believe that they have contributed nothing.

    Having been out a while I have never encountered any sort ill feeling while on duty but actually seeing the shit that my "colleagues" representative associations say about us absolutely changes my mind about wasting my time and theirs, apparently.

    This puts me returning to duty in a very different light. Why give up my weekends for no thanks?


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    #156
    flat_tyre_again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭flat_tyre_again


    ColliegG, I am sorry to hear that this story has upset you like this, I can understand where you are coming from.

    On first reading the article I was completely shocked and I'm sure you felt personally attacked, however, upon reading it a 2rd or 3th time I don't think that the words were directed towards the men and women of the reserve, rather, towards the government who (as it seems) way over estimated the number of completed applicants. I guess its like the "how many sweeties are in a jar" question - most people would guess way out. Who exactly would the government employ to estimate the interest in something that has never been done before? The mistake wasn't the figure they came up with (1600) it was releasing a figure in the first place. Under promise over deliver, anyone?

    I hope that the relevant people do listen to the words of John Egan and act upon/react to them in a positive manner rather than just giving in and scrapping it, that would be the biggest waste of money.

    I think everyone would do well to remember that there are a number of opinions on this discussion, each as valid as the other.

    (Personal Opinion)I think the last thing any GR should do is "jack it in" because at that point the GR loses credibility when dedicated members feel they no longer want to continue.


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    #157
    in control
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭in control


    Have been in the GR over a year now and most of the full time lads are ok. The comments from the GRA are not nice to read but are typical union conference stuff designed to get max publicity and media time . There are times particularily after reading this stuff that you wonder why you give up so much time to get this level of thanks (none) but there is a great sense of enjoyment in the job at times . You know you are doing a good job when the full time lads say they would gladly have you on the unit.( they still dont understand why you do it for free) . On that note how hard is it to pay the €1000 owed for 2007. Keep your heads up lads and to hell with the begrudhers.


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    #158
    leinsterdude
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭leinsterdude


    As already said they are a union really and need to stand ground on alot of changes they encounter, cant blame them for that really, not happy to read that article though, but the concept works worldwide so it can work here, just needs more time, we Irish are a little slow in change still it seems.


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    #159
    tucker1971
    Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭tucker1971


    leinsterdude wrote: »
    As already said they are a union really and need to stand ground on alot of changes they encounter, cant blame them for that really, not happy to read that article though, but the concept works worldwide so it can work here, just needs more time, we Irish are a little slow in change still it seems.


    Its hardly the Reserves fault that the numbers are small yet the mouthpieces in the GRA shift the blame to the Reserves.
    This will definitely have an effect on reserve moral, as just when we seemed to be finally accepted, the GRA stir things up again.
    Who knows whether the Minister for Justice will now look at the concept again and decide to disband the reserve?:mad:


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    #160
    flat_tyre_again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭flat_tyre_again


    I doubt we will see the reserve disbanded. I think, however, that the GR will be seeing some changes come into effect soon. I reckon it only a matter of time that the recruitment for reserves is scaled back by making it a more stringent selection procedure (not that it's easy to get in now) the training is lengthened and it moves away from a voluntary role into something resembling the Specials across the water. I also think that there is the possibility of allowing the GR to patrol without a full time member.

    I would imagine the GR would like to see everything resolved as much as the full time members would however, I also think that the scale of the issues have been blown out of proportion. From what I read of current member's experiences of operational duty (on this board and meeting them) there isn't anything like the bad feeling which is being suggested in media articles.

    Yes, some members don't like the GR and have strong feelings, which they are entitled to, but by the same token there are members who give the "we would have you on the unit any day" compliment, that, is surely worth more than any media article.


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    #161
    lehanemore
    Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭lehanemore


    flat_tyre_again wrote: »
    I doubt we will see the reserve disbanded. I think, however, that the GR will be seeing some changes come into effect soon. I reckon it only a matter of time that the recruitment for reserves is scaled back by making it a more stringent selection procedure (not that it's easy to get in now) the training is lengthened and it moves away from a voluntary role into something resembling the Specials across the water. I also think that there is the possibility of allowing the GR to patrol without a full time member.

    When I recently had my interview with the Super he made these very points, saying that you will be on your own for certain tasks even now.


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    #162
    colliegG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 81 ✭✭colliegG


    Garda Representative Association! End of the day whatever personal feelings one member has, in terms of public perception they speak for their members with one voice.

    In reality though I'm not saying I'd jack, more that I'm pretty disappointed.

    When I tell my gf, mates or family that I can't meet them because I've a shift to do it was nice when at least they thought my help was appreciated at the station. So much for that!

    Nice to know how little we're appreciated.

    (While I accept it's not every members attitude or belief the ones who are positive about it are obviously pretty quiet when we're not about)


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    #163
    CO19
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭CO19


    What exactly is the full timers problems with the reserves ? is it the lack of certain powers a reserve has or what ?


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    #164
    flat_tyre_again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭flat_tyre_again


    What the Minister had to say. http://www.kilkennyadvertiser.ie/index.php?aid=9548

    Another criticism coming out of the conference was that the Garda Reserve was a waste of money.

    But Minister Lenihan disagreed. He said it was a useful and helpful tool for the gardaí and the aim was to grow the reserve from a 200 strong membership to a 350 strong membership.

    There are currently only four garda reserves serving in county Carlow and six in neighbouring Kilkenny, which will fall under the same garda district as Carlow under new policing guidelines.

    “It’s a real addition to the gardaí in Ireland. There’s immense enthusiasm from the reservists and many of them have already been out on patrol with the gardaí and are getting on well,” he said.


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    #165
    wetgarden
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭wetgarden


    CO19 wrote: »
    What exactly is the full timers problems with the reserves ? is it the lack of certain powers a reserve has or what ?

    I personally don't think its a lack of powers at all thats the problem.
    I know some other GR's who are very happy where they are posted and there appears to be no tension.
    I personally have great respect and admiration for the fulltime garda who have a difficult job to do.
    I think they are afraid that the GR will effect their overtime and also they look at us as having the best of both worlds, working fulltime and GR at weekends. With little training compared to fulltimers and yet we end up in the force. I think there is some resentment there. Some of you may disagree but I think deep down thats the core issue and I don't think I'm too far wrong!

    It's very easy for ther GRA to criticise and blame the GR for not helping to ease the problems, alot of money wasted etc. I think the issue is with our whole attitude to law enforcement in this country i.e. more ARV's and maybe more armed gardai. However if you mention going down that route there are more obstacles. No matter what you try to do in this country, someone has an issue or an objection. I know I'm going on here a bit, but that's my opinion. It's an attitude problem thats wrong in this country. How can the GR's be an issue? We have very little powers for god's sake!
    More power to both fulltimers and GR and maybe more would be ahieved!:D


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    #166
    leinsterdude
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭leinsterdude


    wetgarden wrote: »
    I personally don't think its a lack of powers at all thats the problem.
    I know some other GR's who are very happy where they are posted and there appears to be no tension.
    I personally have great respect and admiration for the fulltime garda who have a difficult job to do.
    I think they are afraid that the GR will effect their overtime and also they look at us as having the best of both worlds, working fulltime and GR at weekends. With little training compared to fulltimers and yet we end up in the force. I think there is some resentment there. Some of you may disagree but I think deep down thats the core issue and I don't think I'm too far wrong!

    It's very easy for ther GRA to criticise and blame the GR for not helping to ease the problems, alot of money wasted etc. I think the issue is with our whole attitude to law enforcement in this country i.e. more ARV's and maybe more armed gardai. However if you mention going down that route there are more obstacles. No matter what you try to do in this country, someone has an issue or an objection. I know I'm going on here a bit, but that's my opinion. It's an attitude problem thats wrong in this country. How can the GR's be an issue? We have very little powers for god's sake!
    More power to both fulltimers and GR and maybe more would be ahieved!:D

    Well said I agree.


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    #167
    gilly0512
    Closed Accounts Posts: 313 ✭✭gilly0512


    colliegG wrote: »
    Garda Representative Association! End of the day whatever personal feelings one member has, in terms of public perception they speak for their members with one voice.

    In reality though I'm not saying I'd jack, more that I'm pretty disappointed.

    When I tell my gf, mates or family that I can't meet them because I've a shift to do it was nice when at least they thought my help was appreciated at the station. So much for that!

    Nice to know how little we're appreciated.

    (While I accept it's not every members attitude or belief the ones who are positive about it are obviously pretty quiet when we're not about)


    I must admit that when I read the article on Wednesday that I was quite upset and annoyed as well, as while I was never that naive that I would have thought that the GRA were all of a sudden going to fall in love with the Garda Reserve, I would have thought that after nearly 18 months of the concept, that surely even the GRA might have changed their opinion somewhat. Sadly like most unions in this country, they are full of bitter little twisted men, constantly looking for the moon and stars, and who love blathering on about how badly their members are paid and treated. However I do feel that if the government and Garda authorities don't start utilising the Garda Reserves properly that it will fail, as even the GRA representative stated in the Examiner article that Garda Reserves had little or no powers, so how could they make any difference. For the reserve concept to work, we must be given more powers, and when needs allow, be allowed to work on our own as they are in the UK. There are pros and cons to a Garda Reserve,and definitely more pros, but only if we are used properly, instead of treating us like lame ducks!!


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    #168
    scullersky
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭scullersky


    Sorry for the aggression but f**k them, if you no your doing a good job helping the community and the super/seargent thinks you are f**k the reat of the people with the bitterness and the problem...... At the end of the day if your a Garda Reserve its your decion to be there and the only reason you would be there is to help out you community and the Gardaí so if you no your doing a good job f**k everyone else with the problem , Im sure theres plenty garda and super/seargents proud of the work your doining for our country :):) Sorry but this is my opinion....;)


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    #169
    AN SEANDUINE
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭AN SEANDUINE


    Totally agree with TOMMY-KERRY the GRA have to be seen saying or doing something in the media to justify the subcriptions being paid to them by rank and file gardai who do not always share their opinion.The gardai are always glad to have an extra member or two on the unit,at least after this week the well paid GRA officials will go back to doing what they are good at ,drinking tea and eating chocolate digestives.
    Remember we are great ,honest ,individuals who give up our time for a pittance for the good of the whole community,so hang in their lads cause we are appreciated.


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    #170
    Persol
    Registered Users Posts: 11 ✭Persol


    “The methods by which a trade union (GRA) can alone act, are necessarily destructive; its organization is necessarily tyrannical.”

    I believe the Reserve Force is mostly made up of intellectuals and people with experience in life and that's why I think that they have every right to defend themselves and the community they 've chosen to help from the GRA's "destructive methods". Please. someone stand up and talk for them! Tell the GRA that that 3 gardai are better than 2 !! Tell the GRA that if they can't see how beneficial the Reserve Gardai are to the full time members, then they shouldn' t be where they are as they don't have any sense of management, neither any interest for community commitment - which is the core of being a Garda in the first place!


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    #171
    Random
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    Anyone here actually in the Garda Reserve? I'm very interested to hear about the internals of it and how it works for you when on duty.

    What exactly do you do? You cover football matches? Concerts?

    You work on the front counter in the station? Are you alone or with someone? Can you sign and stamp forms just like a full time member would?

    When out and about I know you're always escorted by a full time member. What is your involvement here? Do you cuff suspects? Restrain them? Question them?

    Down the station - do you get things like a locker? Who do you report to? How does the roster work?

    Do you ever get to do patrols in Garda vehicles? Do you ever get to drive them?

    Do you operate checkpoints and things at all? Are you authoised to use a breathaliser at checkpoints? Allowed to use speed check guns?

    Thanks very much !


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    #172
    Oilrig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭Oilrig


    Soon to be no more...


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    #173
    Random
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    Oilrig wrote: »
    Soon to be no more...
    Is this official?


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    #174
    pa990
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭pa990


    i'm not a reserve but, from my understanding:

    Anyone here actually in the Garda Reserve? I'm very interested to hear about the internals of it and how it works for you when on duty.

    What exactly do you do? You cover football matches? Concerts?

    You work on the front counter in the station? Are you alone or with someone? Can you sign and stamp forms just like a full time member would?

    When out and about I know you're always escorted by a full time member. What is your involvement here? Do you cuff suspects? Restrain them? Question them?


    Do you ever get to do patrols in Garda vehicles? Occasionaly
    Do you ever get to drive them? NO.. NEVER EVER

    Do you operate checkpoints and things at all? Not sure
    Are you authoised to use a breathaliser at checkpoints? NO

    Allowed to use speed check guns? NO


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    #175
    jd83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,445 ✭✭✭jd83


    Oilrig wrote: »
    Soon to be no more...
    Dont suppose you have anything to back up that statement??


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    #176
    shakin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭shakin


    is it really likely the reserves will be disbanded? i dont think so!

    What exactly do you do? You cover football matches? Concerts? think so

    You work on the front counter in the station? Are you alone or with someone? Can you sign and stamp forms just like a full time member would?
    think they can work full station not sure abt stamps

    When out and about I know you're always escorted by a full time member. What is your involvement here? Do you cuff suspects? Restrain them? Question them?they carry cuffs and are trained to restrain and can arrest in certain sits

    Down the station - do you get things like a locker? Who do you report to? How does the roster work?work when you can i think

    Do you ever get to do patrols in Garda vehicles? Do you ever get to drive them?passenger yes drive no, uk specials can drive though

    Do you operate checkpoints and things at all? Are you authoised to use a breathaliser at checkpoints? Allowed to use speed check guns?


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    #177
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    Anyone here actually in the Garda Reserve? No, fulltime

    You cover football matches? Can but rare

    Concerts? Again, can but rare

    You work on the front counter in the station? Yes

    Are you alone or with someone? With someone

    Can you sign and stamp forms just like a full time member would? Yes in law but not authorised to do so by management

    When out and about I know you're always escorted by a full time member. Yes

    What is your involvement here? assist whenever required

    Do you cuff suspects? Can and if required

    Restrain them? as above

    Question them? Interview no, on arrest in law yes but not authorised

    do you get things like a locker? yes

    Who do you report to? Sergeant like everyone else

    How does the roster work? you select and advise your hours month by month but limited to a specific unit unless you request alternative with valid reason

    Do you ever get to do patrols in Garda vehicles? can be carried but not assigned patrol car duty unless no alternative
    Do you ever get to drive them? absolutely not

    Do you operate checkpoints and things at all? assisting yes
    Are you authoised to use a breathaliser at checkpoints? no

    Allowed to use speed check guns? no


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    #178
    shakin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭shakin


    you for or against them, karlitos?


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    #179
    Random
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Random


    Thanks for all the answers lads.

    I watched a recruitment video and of course there was some ould fella who ran some food company on duty outside Croke Park or something .. checking bag packs, keeping the piece and what not. Nice sunny day with no scumbags in sight .. is this just an ideal scenario type thing?

    Saw another girl on patrol with a full timer giving some people directions down Grafton St..

    In your experience is it more likely the reserves are in doors at the station or out and about on the beat?

    And if anyone in the reserves can offer an insight into what you find the most challenging and the most interesting / exciting part of the job.

    How do the reserves work for holidays? You gotta give lots of notice etc or as you're just a part timer providing extra cover you get away with short notice?

    "How does the roster work? you select and advise your hours month by month but limited to a specific unit unless you request alternative with valid reason"
    What do you mean speicifc unit? Valid reasons?

    Thanks !


    ++ edit - This is the video I'm referring to


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    #180
    Eru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    shakin wrote: »
    you for or against them, karlitos?

    I dont think they are being utilised properly nor do I think the way the were established was the best way but I can see the (Limited) merits in the scheme.

    As I said before, my gripes are with the system and the motives behind the scheme not the personel themselves. Ones I have worked with have been nice guys and good company.


    As for hoours, Garda work 3 tier system. Unit a b c or d and just like fulltimers the reserves are attached to a certain unit which means they have to nominate their working hours within their assigned units shift however Im sure theres flexibility there if something comes up.


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    #181
    karlokarl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭karlokarl


    When a GR is on patrol duty, is it just foot patrol or do they go around in Garda cars aswell?


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