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John O Brien not guilty?

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  • 09-05-2008 12:47pm
    #1
    joejoem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭


    What???? - Nothing found linking him to the crime, a free man today.


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    #2
    Naos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,728 ✭✭✭Naos


    Linkys


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    #3
    joejoem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭joejoem


    Verdict out 3 mins, just on radio now. He was accused of murdering his wife Meg Walsh


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    #4
    keen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭keen


    Naos wrote: »
    Linkys

    http://www.rte.ie/news/

    Bookmark that they have all the daily news.


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    #5
    Limerick91
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Limerick91


    Of the three recent high profile wife murderering cases (Meg Walsh, Siobhan Kearney & Rachel O'Reilly)I would have thought that the prosecution case was strongest here.

    I guess taking the risk of taking to the stand paid off


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    #6
    Femelade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭Femelade


    Jaysus!! i was full sure he was going down..


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    #7
    whiskeyman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    As expected IMO.
    Well done that jury to applying what the judge told them.
    It was just too hard to make a hard link to him.
    The main issue is that the state did not make a proper case to find him guilty beyond reasonable doubt.


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    #8
    kaizersoze1980
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭kaizersoze1980


    what a farce. total disgrace.


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    #9
    Limerick91
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Limerick91


    Whiskeyman, would you think that the state proved their cases in the other two trials, O'Reilly & Kearney?


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    #10
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    kaizersoze1980 wrote: »
    what a farce. total disgrace.
    There was fúck all evidence tbh, well none that was presented in court.

    The Irish Justice System has spoken, a jury of his peers has found him not guilty.

    Maybe he should have just been summarily executed when the wife was killed?

    Fúck sake like, every wife that gets murdered, the husband is automatically in the frame.

    If the guards got up of their holes and did a proper investigation instead of just hauling the husbands into court, we might have got a proper conviction.

    Instead, there is a murderer walking the streets (I'm not saying this guy is guilty, but whoever kilt her is still out there now).


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    #11
    mookishboy
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭mookishboy


    A disgrace because it didn't go the way you wanted!
    The jury did the job they were supposed to do.
    Luckily you weren't on it coz it would be the rope for sure then


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    #12
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Haven't followed a lot of it and just going on the RTE coverage, a lot of it was "circumstantial". From what I understand there are a lot of unknowns which again suggests to me that you can't apply beyond reasonable doubt. IMO he can only be not guilty.
    DesF wrote: »
    Instead, there is a murderer walking the streets (I'm not saying this guy is guilty, but whoever kilt her is still out there now).
    +1


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    #13
    kmart6
    Registered Users Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    limerickros wrote: »
    Of the three recent high profile wife murderering cases (Meg Walsh, Siobhan Kearney & Rachel O'Reilly)I would have thought that the prosecution case was strongest here.

    I guess taking the risk of taking to the stand paid off
    Not really a strong case when it was all circumstantcial(sp?) and based on him changing his statements!


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    #14
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Careful whats said here, its not unknown for new evidence to come to light.

    Of course if he didn't do it then the police will have to start again, interesting to see how much effort they put in.

    Mike.


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    #15
    kmart6
    Registered Users Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    There wasn't much evidence in the Rachel O'Reilly case either,like the main point there was his whereabouts were different to what he said! No proof that he actually did it!

    I think that really it depends on what kind of people you get on your jury!


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    #16
    Imhof Tank
    Registered Users Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Imhof Tank


    kmart6 wrote: »
    There wasn't much evidence in the Rachel O'Reilly case either,like the main point there was his whereabouts were different to what he said! No proof that he actually did it!

    I think that really it depends on what kind of people you get on your jury!

    Well, the pojnt in the Joe O'Reilly case wasnt that his whereabout were different to what he first said, it was that he was shown to have been at the murder scene at the relevant time.

    Regarding the jury, in this case, I believe its 7 men and 5 women; whereas in the McLoughlin case,there was a huge female majority on the jury

    What would be so difficult about introducing a rule requiring 6 men and 6 women for juries in this type of case?


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    #17
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I hadn't been following the whole thing really, it was only his admission that he used to beat her that had me thinking that he'd go down.
    It was only yesterday when they made their arguments and the prosecution more-or-less admitted that, "We have no actual evidence, only a few bits of suggestions that make it look like he probably did it", that I thought their case was probably quite weak.


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    #18
    kaizersoze1980
    Closed Accounts Posts: 732 ✭✭✭kaizersoze1980


    Was there not evidence of her blood in the boot of the family car?


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    #19
    Caoimhín
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    kmart6 wrote: »
    There wasn't much evidence in the Rachel O'Reilly case either,like the main point there was his whereabouts were different to what he said! No proof that he actually did it!

    I think that really it depends on what kind of people you get on your jury!

    Yeah, see i didn't think one could be convicted on circumstantial evidence but that shows what i know.


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    #20
    DoubleJoe7
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭DoubleJoe7


    kaizersoze1980 wrote: »
    Was there not evidence of her blood in the boot of the family car?

    The car was disposed of, left in a car park. CCTV footage showed an undistinguishable figure who remote locked the car. The car was sold to Meg Walsh, who was provided with two keys.

    Both keys were found in the couple's house in Waterford following a Garda search.


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    #21
    Caoimhín
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Caoimhín


    Our justice system would be perfect but for the human element.


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    #22
    kmart6
    Registered Users Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    it was that he was shown to have been at the murder scene at the relevant time

    I know,but there was still no clear cut evidence....I didn't agree with that verdict
    Imhof Tank wrote: »
    What would be so difficult about introducing a rule requiring 6 men and 6 women for juries in this type of case?

    God,imagine how long it would take them to deliberate then!


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    #23
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    I haven't followed the case much but based on what I heard I probably would have went the other way.

    But that's how trail by jury works. You sum up the evidence that has been presented before you and make a decision.

    Was it a majority verdict or a unanimous verdict?


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    #24
    My name is Mud
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭My name is Mud


    DesF wrote: »
    Fúck sake like, every wife that gets murdered, the husband is automatically in the frame.

    Thats because 50% of all female murder victims in Ireland are murdered by their husband, ex-husband, partner, ex-partner.

    Its a high probability...nothing else.


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    #25
    DoubleJoe7
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭DoubleJoe7


    It was unanimous


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    #26
    TheNog
    Registered Users Posts: 4,160 ✭✭✭TheNog


    DesF wrote: »
    Fúck sake like, every wife that gets murdered, the husband is automatically in the frame.

    If the guards got up of their holes and did a proper investigation instead of just hauling the husbands into court, we might have got a proper conviction.

    Statistically speaking a family member is usually found to have committed most murders of a person for one reason or another. While the husband is automatically a suspect so is everyone else in the family and anyone who had a known dislike of the murdered person. It is simply down to a process of elimination then.

    If you say that the guards didn't do a proper investigation then where is your proof? You could mail it to the GSOC. Maybe you are just guessing. I didn't see it reported anywhere in the media that the guards did a bad job. I reckon that your anger is misguided.

    In this case the husband had the motive when Meg Ryan was caught kissing another man, she wanted to divorce John and he had the opportunity as he had close access to her and easy access to her car. This case was fairly circumstancial 'cos the actual curder scene couldn;t be found.

    In all cases of murder it is the DPP who decides if a case is worthy of going before the courts. In this case the DPP believed there was enough evidence to prosecute.
    mike65 wrote: »
    Careful whats said here, its not unknown for new evidence to come to light.

    Of course if he didn't do it then the police will have to start again, interesting to see how much effort they put in.

    Mike.


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    #27
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    DoubleJoe7 wrote: »
    It was unanimous

    Then it must have been fairly clear that the jurors that he didn't do it and the evidence presented did not prove the case beyond reasonable doubt.


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    #28
    DoubleJoe7
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭DoubleJoe7


    DesF wrote: »
    Fúck sake like, every wife that gets murdered, the husband is automatically in the frame.

    Not true. In this case the Gardaí didn't arrest O'Brien for months after the body was found. The clearly investigated the case and felt they had enough to charge him on it. Hardly "automatically in the frame."


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    #29
    _blank_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 41,926 ✭✭✭✭_blank_


    My name is Mud wrote: »
    Thats because 50% of all female murder victims in Ireland are murdered by their husband, ex-husband, partner, ex-partner.

    Its a high probability...nothing else.
    So, 50% aren't, is that what you are saying?


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    #30
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Important notice: The man has been found not guilty - under no circumstances can anyone make any remarks implying he's guilty. That is libel and he would be well within his rights to sue.


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    #31
    _feedback_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭_feedback_


    DesF wrote: »
    Fúck sake like, every wife that gets murdered, the husband is automatically in the frame.

    Unfortunately True ...
    My name is Mud wrote: »
    Thats because 50% of all female murder victims in Ireland are murdered by their husband, ex-husband, partner, ex-partner.

    Its a high probability...nothing else.

    Do you have anything to back up that 50% figure?! Are you saying that they are arrested on probability?!

    The media have to hold some blame too, in recent years there have been a number of instances that involved a large number in a family being killed. The media automatically point the finger at the father/husband... Often, the results of investigations etc never come to light and the name of the father/husband and their family is blackened. Even if they were in no way at fault.

    It's bullsh1t TBH...


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