dog messing in my house...every couple of hours

emsy g · 09-03-2008 7:03pm #1

the rescue dog i got last saturday will not stop messing in the house,the first few days was acceptable and expected,i showed her it was wrong by bringing her back to it,showing it to her and saying no,then as days went on i started putting her outside,she didn't make any mess thursday or friday day when i left her in the hall with my other dog for about 6 hours.friday night she pee'd twice,her punishment was that i locked her outside for about 1/2 an hour and when she came back in i ignored her for a while.she isn't nervous so it's not nerves making her do it and she is well aware that it is wrong!saturday she pee'd 3 times and done a poo which she had a small slap on the nose for and again,out the back....then today,she has done 2 pee's,both times she was given a small slap on the nose and put outside and just now she was fine,all happy and then went into the hall and left me a little parcel and another pee,this time i dipped her nose into it(not rubbed,and not rough) and she is at the moment outside!!!what do i do?how can i get it through to her,i'm SO sick of mopping,i've never had a dog do this SO much,she seems to have more poo coming out than food going in!!!!i know it's only been a week but this is constant.i'll bring her for walks and she'll do her business and then come back and do it in the house,i'll let her out the back and she'll do her business and again,come inside to do it another time.i'm starting to worry that my other very well trained dog is going to start doing it too to mark his territory

jameshayes · 09-03-2008 7:05pm

What are you using to clean it up?

jameshayes · 09-03-2008 7:09pm

And, also - the methods you are using to correct the dog are completly outdated, they are old wives tales and do not work. You need to use other methods which reward good behavior and ignore bad behaviour.

emsy g · 09-03-2008 7:22pm

i'm using the same methods i've used on all the dogs i've trained or helped train,the other dog i have is much more trained and well behaved than any of the other dogs i know.i'm not trying to toot my own horn but i've always managed to get a dog to do what i want but this is just ridiculous,it's really upsetting.when she goes outside and does her business she is always rewarded with attentiona and sometimes even the odd treat.
I'm using toilet roll to pick it up and then mopping the floor with a small bit of flash or whatever floor cleaner i have.the thing is,she hasn't picked a specific place to do it,she just does it wherever she wants.
the other thing is that she clearly knows it's wrong,she come back downstairs or into the sitting room,when i leave she'll follow me until she knows i'm about to discover it and then duck her head and ears and tail will go between her legs.

LuckyStar · 09-03-2008 7:33pm

emsy g wrote: »

i showed her it was wrong by bringing her back to it,showing it to her and saying no

Dogs don't really understand when you point at things. Unless you catch her in the act then telling her off is pointless.

emsy g wrote: »

saturday she pee'd 3 times and done a poo which she had a small slap on the nose for

Did you catch her in the act (god, she pees and poos at turbo speed if so) or did you come home to this mess and then pointlessly punish her?

emsy g wrote: »

left me a little parcel and another pee,this time i dipped her nose into it(not rubbed,and not rough)

Eh, the 50's are over.

emsy g wrote: »

duck her head and ears and tail will go between her legs.

That's how most dogs will act when they have an owner that hits them and sticks their nose in their own excrement for seemingly no reason- Is this how you would housetrain a child?

How old is the dog?

emsy g · 09-03-2008 7:37pm

She's a dog not a child,this is how i trained my other dog who is excellent and i catch her within seconds or in the act.if i came back to it after leaving the house she would obviously not get punished...it's too late if you don't catch them straight away.she has done it WHILE looking me in the eye too!!

emsy g · 09-03-2008 7:39pm

she's about 2 and a lovely temprement,really sweet

emsy g · 09-03-2008 8:37pm

please try to read my post properly and note that i have not 'hit' my dog or rubbed her nose in **** without her realising what she had done.also her tail between her legs etc was happening from the first time she did this which i may point out was BEFORE i 'lightly tapped' her on the nose for taking a **** in my hallway right in front of me.if you are going to quote me then don't try to quote me out of context.is there someone else that can read my post correctly and take into account that i am not cruel and at the same time not misquote me?if there is then i would greatly appreciate your advice,i'm just looking for someone whoh knows what they are talking about
thankyou

09-03-2008 8:45pm

Have you tried using a newspaper corner with dog toilet training spray on it? This works for puppies.

michelleans · 09-03-2008 8:46pm

I'd forget her age and start from the beginning again, as if she was a puppy.

Crate her when you are not there, or have her outside in a secured run that way she cannot mess in the house. When you are there take her outside regularly and when she goes to the toilet praise like mad, follow with a game of ball, attention, or treats, whatever she likes a lot. Take her out after meals, whenever she's had some excitement or play, or drank alot of water too, as these are times she's more likely to go.

If she goes in the house, and you didn't catch her, ignore the fact that she has went, quietly remove her outside and clean up the mess without her seeing you doing it. If you do catch her in the act, pick her up, she will instinctively stop, say nothing to her but carry her outside and let her down, ask her to "go toilet" "potty" whatever word you want and when she does rewards her as above. (This will of course depend on the size of the dog, I applied it when my boy was a puppy so it was easy enough)

If she still insists on going in the house after a week or two of this, I'd suggest leashing her to you, so you can watch her 100% of the time and prevent any accidents from happening.

It's a hard and frustrating thing to deal with, but it takes time and patience. Hope I've helped, good luck.

emsy g · 09-03-2008 9:29pm

Thankyou so much,a couple of them i have tried but the rest i haven't is great advice!!!She's a staffordshire but not very heavy so will make the effort to pick her up.I'll definately use your idea's and let you know in afew weeks

LuckyStar · 09-03-2008 9:38pm

emsy g wrote: »

please try to read my post properly and note that i have not 'hit' my dog or rubbed her nose in **** without her realising what she had done.also her tail between her legs etc was happening from the first time she did this which i may point out was BEFORE i 'lightly tapped' her on the nose for taking a **** in my hallway right in front of me.if you are going to quote me then don't try to quote me out of context.is there someone else that can read my post correctly and take into account that i am not cruel and at the same time not misquote me?if there is then i would greatly appreciate your advice,i'm just looking for someone whoh knows what they are talking about
thankyou

I took your quotes word for word. I did not misquote you, you just don't like what I said. And sticking your dog's nose in its own excrement is cruel. And outdated. Again, we are not living in the 50's.

Bluefrog · 10-03-2008 1:24am

michelleans wrote: »

I'd forget her age and start from the beginning again, as if she was a puppy.

Crate her when you are not there, or have her outside in a secured run that way she cannot mess in the house. When you are there take her outside regularly and when she goes to the toilet praise like mad, follow with a game of ball, attention, or treats, whatever she likes a lot. Take her out after meals, whenever she's had some excitement or play, or drank alot of water too, as these are times she's more likely to go.

If she goes in the house, and you didn't catch her, ignore the fact that she has went, quietly remove her outside and clean up the mess without her seeing you doing it. If you do catch her in the act, pick her up, she will instinctively stop, say nothing to her but carry her outside and let her down, ask her to "go toilet" "potty" whatever word you want and when she does rewards her as above. (This will of course depend on the size of the dog, I applied it when my boy was a puppy so it was easy enough)

If she still insists on going in the house after a week or two of this, I'd suggest leashing her to you, so you can watch her 100% of the time and prevent any accidents from happening.

It's a hard and frustrating thing to deal with, but it takes time and patience. Hope I've helped, good luck.

This advice is right on the money - it may take a couple of weeks and there may be accidents but you'll get there - 6 hours is a little long to leave a new dog - I'd suggest a maximum of 4 for a while and then start extending it.

It's also very important that you remove any scent of her urine where she had her previous accidents as dogs use this as a cue for future use - some vinegar in the cleaning solution and some lime based detergent should do it.

How is her scratching now?

(There are some pretty touchy people posting in this forum - sorry that you seem to have had them in your threads.)

kerrysgold · 10-03-2008 4:46pm

Putting a dog's nose in it's mess is not only cruel it is pointless.

If you come home and find the mess, there's no point in punishing her since she won't understand. she'll only know what your on about if she's only just after doing it.

Also, if she is messing so much, have you considered taking her to a vet? a dog that is constantly messing doesn't sound good, maybe she has an upset tummy? Mine only do their business 1-2 times a day.

as some else said, treat her like a pup and take her out after she eats/drinks. My dogs aren't pups but I do this since I figure what goes in must come out

emsy g · 10-03-2008 5:08pm

Bluefrog wrote: »

This advice is right on the money - it may take a couple of weeks and there may be accidents but you'll get there - 6 hours is a little long to leave a new dog - I'd suggest a maximum of 4 for a while and then start extending it.

It's also very important that you remove any scent of her urine where she had her previous accidents as dogs use this as a cue for future use - some vinegar in the cleaning solution and some lime based detergent should do it.

How is her scratching now?

(There are some pretty touchy people posting in this forum - sorry that you seem to have had them in your threads.)

unfortunately on that day i was called in to work,it's supposed to be only 3 hours every now and then but i was stuck for the extra 2 which was unavoidable,she did have my other dog with her so it wasn't too bad but yes,i agree,for her only having been with us such a short time she shouldn't be on her own that long,luckily for my next shift i'm working late and my boyfriend will be in the house with her

I didn't think of the vinegar,just been using flash floor cleaner and boiling water and washing twice but i will add vinegar next time
her scratching is much better now,thankyou for asking

the tablets are working a treat and thankfully nothing got passed onto deeogy so all is well
I've noticed i get some bad feedback alright,figure these opinionated people who have no advice to give are everywhere though but there's always people like you,lurchin along etc that make the hassle worth while

thanks a mill again

and again,to kerrysgold,i'm not snapping here but just letting you know,i did not come home to a mess and then rub her nose in it,ignore the others that keep accusing me of random stuff that didn't happen,she crouched down in front of me and took a crap!!!THAT was why she was punished with a light tap on the nose or ONCE where her nose was DIPPED not rubbed....if she thought i was being rough she wouldn't be so loving and friendly and bright towards me,she would be dropping her ears and everything wouldn't be a game...she is VERY happy and well looked after
if any of you are going to be negative,nasty and judgemental without giving some actual advice then i am simply going to ignore your posts as i am trying to get help....no more pointless comments...this site is for people who want advice....want to give out **** to people?then go to www.digg.com

emsy g · 10-03-2008 5:28pm

jameshayes wrote: »

What are you using to clean it up?

just a reply to private message,i've been bringing her outside as she won't go out without me most of the time,last night was a perfect example,she was doing alot of moving around so i got up,put on a dressing gown and went outside in the cold windy weather

with her,but nothing!!she just stood there looking at me,i walked around to see if she'd go without me looking but she just followed me and tried to jump up and get loves off me....this happened twice,the going outside bit...i know it'll take time but it's like trying to get through to a brick wall

i feel sorry for her but she will have to get it or i'll have to start putting her outside in the kennel when it gets warmer and i'd really hate to have to do that,never had to do it before

MsFifers · 10-03-2008 5:53pm

I think people underestimate how traumatic a move to a new home is for a pet - I know I did! I don't have a dog, but when I brought home my two rescue kittens a week later they both got stomach upsets so bad they ended up in vet hospital. The vet said it was just due to the stress of the move.

It could be your doggy is just messed up in the head at the mo!

Give it more time, ignore the bad behaviour and reward the good, and all these problems will probably just settle down.

emsy g · 10-03-2008 8:32pm

MsFifers wrote: »

I think people underestimate how traumatic a move to a new home is for a pet - I know I did! I don't have a dog, but when I brought home my two rescue kittens a week later they both got stomach upsets so bad they ended up in vet hospital. The vet said it was just due to the stress of the move.

It could be your doggy is just messed up in the head at the mo! Give it more time, ignore the bad behaviour and reward the good, and all these problems will probably just settle down.

Yeah,your probably right,it's just so frustrating....and my house will start stinking if she doesn't figure it out

LuckyStar · 10-03-2008 8:53pm

emsy g wrote: »

I've noticed i get some bad feedback alright,figure these opinionated people who have no advice to give are everywhere though.

ignore the others that keep accusing me of random stuff that didn't happen

You really don't take too well to people telling you anything that it doesn't suit you to hear, do you?

As for accusing you of random stuff that didn't happen- everything I quoted was taken word for word from your posts. Slapping your dog- you did use the word "slap" and sticking its nose in its own crap- you said you did this too- not me.

Maybe if you used the odd capital letter and full stop now and then, you'd be easier to understand.

Bluefrog wrote:

There are some pretty touchy people posting in this forum - sorry that you seem to have had them in your threads

I really hope you don't mean me, because when I start making threads and emailing butchers organisations because I don't want to pay a whole €2 for dog bones, THEN I'll start worrying about being touchy :rolleyes:
I would just say to go to a different butcher but you already bit someone else's head off for that!

emsy g · 10-03-2008 10:15pm

OsciiBoscii wrote: »

Have you tried using a newspaper corner with dog toilet training spray on it? This works for puppies.

where would you get this dog toilet training spray then?never even heard of it...
it could be handy as a last resort...

Sigma Force · 11-03-2008 11:53am

Not referring to any posts except the origional post made.

There is no point in correcting a dog a while after the deed is done, unless you correct a dog straight away they aren't going to remember.

This is a rescue dog and needs time and patience sometimes rescues need more time and patience than say a dog gotten from a home where they were trained from the very beginning. Saying that not all rescue dogs take a lot of training depends on the dog and the situation.

Sticking a dogs nose in is wrong it's not how things are done nowdays and it's an old wives tale.

You say you slapped the dog on the nose, wether it was a tip or a slap this is the wrong way to go about treating any dog.

Just because you think your methods worked on your other dog doesn't mean it did it could be a coincidence, some dogs are quick learners some dogs are almost automatically trained or have better bladder control etc.

If you want to keep the dog try keeping her, while you are gone, in an area where it's easily mopped up like a tiled area for now. Be patient never punish a dog for something they did 5. 10 or 20 minutes ago they are not going to understand. Feed the dog a good quality dog food like Burns or RC this saves on smell, a dog is not going to learn overnight especially if they may not have ever been toilet trained you will have to start from scratch just like you would a puppy this can take weeks or months sometimes.
If you are not prepared to do this then I would suggest taking the dog back to the rescue (if it was a rescue you got the dog from). If you wish to keep the dog and are not sure what to do next contact a good dog trainer that uses humane methods of training, no slapping, hitting, shouting, pulling etc. Check out irishanimals.ie for a list of them.

Hope this helps.

emsy g · 11-03-2008 5:08pm

Guineapigrescue wrote: »

Not referring to any posts except the origional post made.

There is no point in correcting a dog a while after the deed is done, unless you correct a dog straight away they aren't going to remember.

This is a rescue dog and needs time and patience sometimes rescues need more time and patience than say a dog gotten from a home where they were trained from the very beginning. Saying that not all rescue dogs take a lot of training depends on the dog and the situation.

Sticking a dogs nose in is wrong it's not how things are done nowdays and it's an old wives tale.

You say you slapped the dog on the nose, wether it was a tip or a slap this is the wrong way to go about treating any dog.

Just because you think your methods worked on your other dog doesn't mean it did it could be a coincidence, some dogs are quick learners some dogs are almost automatically trained or have better bladder control etc.

If you want to keep the dog try keeping her, while you are gone, in an area where it's easily mopped up like a tiled area for now. Be patient never punish a dog for something they did 5. 10 or 20 minutes ago they are not going to understand. Feed the dog a good quality dog food like Burns or RC this saves on smell, a dog is not going to learn overnight especially if they may not have ever been toilet trained you will have to start from scratch just like you would a puppy this can take weeks or months sometimes.
If you are not prepared to do this then I would suggest taking the dog back to the rescue (if it was a rescue you got the dog from). If you wish to keep the dog and are not sure what to do next contact a good dog trainer that uses humane methods of training, no slapping, hitting, shouting, pulling etc. Check out irishanimals.ie for a list of them.

Hope this helps.

Thankyou,already been talking to dog trainer.never punished the dog AFTER she did her business,caught her in the act....in fact she was staring straight at me.

11-03-2008 9:19pm

Its called Johnson's Puppy and Kitten Trainer. Its a yellow aerosol, and I THINK I got it in Tesco, though I have it so long I can't be sure. Good Luck

Bluefrog · 12-03-2008 2:25am

Dear god - are you per chance a butcher who charges for bones?

If you bothered reading the thread, I was simply enquiring as to whether it is common practice to charge for bones as I had never come across it before - turns out it isn't and the vast majority of people in the thread agreed with me that it was a retrograde move on the part of the butcher. It is of course your own decision if you choose to focus on the €2; I think that says more about you than me. Actually, I was more concerned with the principle of being charged ANYTHING for the pleasure of removing some of a butcher's offal.

Furthermore, I emailed the Craft Butchers inviting a contribution as no butchers contributed, yet I wanted the discussion to be balanced and fair - can you grasp that concept?

As for your suggestion of going to another butcher my friend, not that this is particularly any of your business but in order to demonstrate how totally off the beam you are here (if anyone could still be in any doubt), I will tell you that I happen to be visually impaired to an extent that prevents me from driving and which makes using public transport alone difficult thus travelling unnecessarily is time consuming and inconvenient. I would also much prefer to support local businesses in my area than elsewhere as I feel it helps build a sense of community.

I can only hope you relate better to your pet than to those trying to contribute in a positiive fashion here as well as to those seeking to deepen their knowledge of their pets' care.

While I can't speak on behalf of the OP I can tell you that I certainly have no desire to hear your opinion on anything given the ignorant way you proffer it.

P.S. Yes, I did mean you - how did you guess?

LuckyStar wrote: »

You really don't take too well to people telling you anything that it doesn't suit you to hear, do you?

As for accusing you of random stuff that didn't happen- everything I quoted was taken word for word from your posts. Slapping your dog- you did use the word "slap" and sticking its nose in its own crap- you said you did this too- not me.

Maybe if you used the odd capital letter and full stop now and then, you'd be easier to understand.

I really hope you don't mean me, because when I start making threads and emailing butchers organisations because I don't want to pay a whole €2 for dog bones, THEN I'll start worrying about being touchy :rolleyes:
I would just say to go to a different butcher but you already bit someone else's head off for that!

AckwelFoley · 12-03-2008 2:37am

Just a point.. please dont push the dogs nose into a patte of his own dog poop.

That will just make him hate you and his own poop.. not where he decides to leave it.

emsy g · 12-03-2008 12:32pm

Bluefrog wrote: »

Dear god - are you per chance a butcher who charges for bones?

If you bothered reading the thread, I was simply enquiring as to whether it is common practice to charge for bones as I had never come across it before - turns out it isn't and the vast majority of people in the thread agreed with me that it was a retrograde move on the part of the butcher. It is of course your own decision if you choose to focus on the €2; I think that says more about you than me. Actually, I was more concerned with the principle of being charged ANYTHING for the pleasure of removing some of a butcher's offal.

Furthermore, I emailed the Craft Butchers inviting a contribution as no butchers contributed, yet I wanted the discussion to be balanced and fair - can you grasp that concept?

As for your suggestion of going to another butcher my friend, not that this is particularly any of your business but in order to demonstrate how totally off the beam you are here (if anyone could still be in any doubt), I will tell you that I happen to be visually impaired to an extent that prevents me from driving and which makes using public transport alone difficult thus travelling unnecessarily is time consuming and inconvenient. I would also much prefer to support local businesses in my area than elsewhere as I feel it helps build a sense of community.

I can only hope you relate better to your pet than to those trying to contribute in a positiive fashion here as well as to those seeking to deepen their knowledge of their pets' care.

While I can't speak on behalf of the OP I can tell you that I certainly have no desire to hear your opinion on anything given the ignorant way you proffer it.

P.S. Yes, I did mean you - how did you guess?

righty,this is my last post on this subject
hello bluefrog,i read your thread about butchers and bones and again didn't get why luckystar was being so damn rude,she has just left college though and as she's read afew books she believes she now knows more on these subjects than anyone alse,though she tends to just attack rather than give ANY helpful advice and take quotes out of context alot,she is what they call an armchair warrior,i've actually added her to my 'ignore' list as she simply wouldn't go away and stop abusing us all.
I have been looking after animals since i was about 3,i grew up on a farm with goats,sheep,cows,horses,hens and pigs...all of which i helped look after,i have helped butcher animals (humainly,i might add) and i have helped most of these animals give birth,i have also had dogs,cats,rabbits,ferrets and other random pets such as hamsters and gerbils.....i'm not bragging i'm simply pointing out that i do know abit about them and it annoys me that some little college girl can come on this and abuse me for asking a simple question,just because i've been around them all my life does not mean that i should know it all,aren't we supposed to be here to help eachother and give advice?
Thankyou to all of you who gave me advice and yes....guys....i'm sorry i used 'old' techniques to train my dog,it's just the same stuff i've been doing for 25 years and has never failed me,i wouldn't call it an old wives tail as they are the ones that never work right?you cannot attack someone for these things,i am not cruel in any way,i love my 2 dogs,my horse at home and my 2 cats...which,i have to point out,my mother is caring for!i did not viciously attack my dog,it was a one off.....also,i'd like to point out....she hasn't done it since

and no,she is not terrified of big old cruel me,she loves me just as much...i'm done here,thanks again

kerrysgold · 12-03-2008 3:35pm

Sorry, but it says something about you when you have no problem with "butchering" an animal, why would you have a problem with "dipping" a dogs nose in it's own muck? But obviously you're one of these people that think because something has been done for years it must be the right thing to do. :rolleyes: you obviously don't know much about modern, KIND, training methods.

M0use · 12-03-2008 4:05pm

I volunteer with a dog rescue organisation. When you adopt or foster a rescue dog it can take several weeks for the dogs to settle in and be fully housetrained etc. This is due to the fact that they have often been straying for some time, and then spent anywhere from the minimum of five days up to more than a month (depending on the pound or rescue centre) in a small cage for at least 18hours a day and 23 hours a day at weekends. Once they get into homes and relax, they often have tummy upsets for a first few days and can do their business in places they know they shouldn't. After all the dog has gone through, a few ups and down in the first week or two should be expected. God only knows what that dog might have gone through before it got to you.

However, I would like to say I'm always thrilled when someone rescues a dog rather than lining the pockets of a breeder. Lots of dogs that come into the pound are pedigrees. There's no need to buy a dog unless you intend to show it and you need the IKC papers.

LuckyStar · 12-03-2008 8:08pm

Bluefrog wrote: »

Dear god - are you per chance a butcher who charges for bones?

If you bothered reading the thread, I was simply enquiring as to whether it is common practice to charge for bones as I had never come across it before - turns out it isn't and the vast majority of people in the thread agreed with me that it was a retrograde move on the part of the butcher. It is of course your own decision if you choose to focus on the €2; I think that says more about you than me. Actually, I was more concerned with the principle of being charged ANYTHING for the pleasure of removing some of a butcher's offal.

Furthermore, I emailed the Craft Butchers inviting a contribution as no butchers contributed, yet I wanted the discussion to be balanced and fair - can you grasp that concept?

As for your suggestion of going to another butcher my friend, not that this is particularly any of your business but in order to demonstrate how totally off the beam you are here (if anyone could still be in any doubt), I will tell you that I happen to be visually impaired to an extent that prevents me from driving and which makes using public transport alone difficult thus travelling unnecessarily is time consuming and inconvenient. I would also much prefer to support local businesses in my area than elsewhere as I feel it helps build a sense of community.

I can only hope you relate better to your pet than to those trying to contribute in a positiive fashion here as well as to those seeking to deepen their knowledge of their pets' care.

While I can't speak on behalf of the OP I can tell you that I certainly have no desire to hear your opinion on anything given the ignorant way you proffer it.

P.S. Yes, I did mean you - how did you guess?

I haven't enough spare time to read this as you did to write it, but I'm sure it is very interesting. The butcher is a business not a charity- if he sees a way to make money and it is legal then why not?

LuckyStar · 12-03-2008 8:13pm

emsy g wrote: »

righty,this is my last post on this subject
hello bluefrog,i read your thread about butchers and bones and again didn't get why luckystar was being so damn rude,she has just left college though and as she's read afew books she believes she now knows more on these subjects than anyone alse,though she tends to just attack rather than give ANY helpful advice and take quotes out of context alot,she is what they call an armchair warrior,i've actually added her to my 'ignore' list as she simply wouldn't go away and stop abusing us all.

I didn't leave college, I graduated. You sound very bitter about someone else having an education!

emsy g wrote: »

some little college girl can come on this and abuse me for asking a simple question,just because i've been around them all my life does not mean that i should know it all,aren't we supposed to be here to help eachother and give advice?
Thankyou to all of you who gave me advice and yes....guys....i'm sorry i used 'old' techniques to train my dog,it's just the same stuff i've been doing for 25 years and has never failed me,i wouldn't call it an old wives tail as they are the ones that never work right?you cannot attack someone for these things,i am not cruel in any way,i love my 2 dogs,my horse at home and my 2 cats...which,i have to point out,my mother is caring for!i did not viciously attack my dog,it was a one off.....also,i'd like to point out....she hasn't done it since and no,she is not terrified of big old cruel me,she loves me just as much...i'm done here,thanks again

I'd rather be an educated "little college girl" than a know-it-all farm girl who uses methods from the 50's and still hasn't grapsed basic grammar!! As for "read a few books"- I studied for 4 years and probably read more in those 4 years than you did your whole life. Again, bitterness.

Bluefrog · 12-03-2008 8:32pm

LuckyStar wrote: »

I haven't enough spare time to read this as you did to write it, but I'm sure it is very interesting. The butcher is a business not a charity- if he sees a way to make money and it is legal then why not?

I really didn't expect a response - I knew you wouldn't have one. I can appreciate you are busy though. Must be a full time job dealing with all that insecurity

The butcher is entitled to run his business as he sees fit but he does so in the public realm and I am just as entitled to comment on it.

I guess since you can't even respect the thread topic it is wishful thinking to hope you would treat other posters with respect either. Sad.

dog messing in my house...every couple of hours

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