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Christians who are not Mormons

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  • 12-12-2007 3:53pm
    #1
    8kvscdpglqnyr4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 413 ✭✭


    I rarley post on boards but I do drop in to read from time to time so forgive me if this has been discussed before.

    As a Christian, do you reject what Mormons (Latter Day Saints) profess? Do you know enough about their religion to reject it (be honest)? If you do reject it, then why?

    I'm not well read on religon, but it seems to me that because the events around Joseph Smith happened less than 200 years should make it as(more) believable than something that happened 2000 years ago. I've always thought that if Jesus really was the son of God, then surely he/God would make a comeback ever century or so just to make sure we all know who really is the boss;)

    If you can accept something that occured 2000 years ago based on a book written over several decades by several authors, on what grounds can you reject the book or Mormon?


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    #2
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Gianluca Flaky Elk wrote: »
    I rarley post on boards but I do drop in to read from time to time so forgive me if this has been discussed before.

    As a Christian, do you reject what Mormons (Latter Day Saints) profess? Do you know enough about their religion to reject it (be honest)? If you do reject it, then why?
    I reject the Mormonism because it totally deny the diety of Christ! The God of the Bible emphatically says that there is ONLY ONE GOD (Deuteronomy 6:4) and He will not share His glory with another (Isaiah 42:8). The Bible talks a lot about false prophets and I would consider Joseph Smith leader and founder of the Mormons in 1830 as one.
    Gianluca Flaky Elk wrote: »
    I'm not well read on religon, but it seems to me that because the events around Joseph Smith happened less than 200 years should make it as(more) believable than something that happened 2000 years ago. I've always thought that if Jesus really was the son of God, then surely he/God would make a comeback ever century or so just to make sure we all know who really is the boss;)
    Jesus spifically warned us about false teachers and those that preach "another Gospel" Jesus also gave us some indications of his return, (He dosen't even know himself when he will return!) He never specified any time as many cults often put dates and figures however he gave us hints as to when we are near the time of his return.
    Gianluca Flaky Elk wrote: »
    If you can accept something that occured 2000 years ago based on a book written over several decades by several authors, on what grounds can you reject the book or Mormon?
    Concerning the Bible, it was not written by men- "Knowing this first, that NO prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were MOVED by the Holy Ghost." -2nd Peter 1:20,21

    Mormonism adds to the Bible and preaches "another Gospel". Specifically the Book of Mormon, written by its founder Joseph Smith. Mormonism is also closely knitted to freemasonary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry_and_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement One cannot be both a Christian and a Freemason its a contradiction in terms.

    God gives some stern warnings for those who would add to His word or take away from it...

    "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." -Revelation 22:18,19

    Joseph Smith added to the word of God, which is totally forbidded, The Bible says yea, "let God be true and EVERY man a liar". Romans 3vs4


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    #3
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Gianluca Flaky Elk wrote: »
    I rarley post on boards but I do drop in to read from time to time so forgive me if this has been discussed before.

    As a Christian, do you reject what Mormons (Latter Day Saints) profess? Do you know enough about their religion to reject it (be honest)? If you do reject it, then why?

    I'm not well read on religon, but it seems to me that because the events around Joseph Smith happened less than 200 years should make it as(more) believable than something that happened 2000 years ago. I've always thought that if Jesus really was the son of God, then surely he/God would make a comeback ever century or so just to make sure we all know who really is the boss;)

    If you can accept something that occured 2000 years ago based on a book written over several decades by several authors, on what grounds can you reject the book or Mormon?

    Thank you for this post. Can I ask you why if you are a Mormon, you reject say the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, the Pali Canon and the Qu'ran?

    I don't see the Book of Mormon as having as much authenticity as to the Bible through the various historical links and connections with the world in which it was based in. Also, the Spirit doesn't guide me to look at the Book of Mormon. The truth of the Almighty is contained in the Bible. There will be no more revelations until the final judgement. This is my belief by the way.


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    #4
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Joseph Smith added to the Bible

    So did every book in the New Testament :confused:

    The bits about the false prophets are in the Old Testament, and all the Jew all thought Jesus and his followers were false prophets for the same reason you think Smith is one.

    So if you judge false prophets as people who add to the Bible when the Bible says false prophets will add to the Bible, then you should ignore the New Testament. And probably be Jewish.


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    #5
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Run_to_da_hills wrote:
    I reject the Mormonism because its straight from the pits of hell [...] false prophets [...] false teachers [...] The cult of Mormonism [...] If you remain deceived [...] cults [...] dirty lie of the Devil [...] he is a liar and is burning in Hell today
    Nothing like a good dose of hellfire to get people going on a dreary Wednesday evening, eh?

    Keep it up!


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    #6
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Run_to_da_hills: It's clear we have differences in telling people what is what in relation to Christianity. I don't feel that I have the authority to tell someone that they are either admitted to heaven or hell, that is up to the Almighty.


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    #7
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Run_to_da_hills: It's clear we have differences in telling people what is what in relation to Christianity. I don't feel that I have the authority to tell someone that they are either admitted to heaven or hell, that is up to the Almighty.
    Would you put our lord to the test by tampering with his word and then go preaching a different gospel altogether other than salvation in Christ alone?


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    #8
    RealJohn
    Registered Users Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭RealJohn


    I won't condemn anyone if they believe in the same God I do (and I won't comdemn them anyway as it's not my place to do so) as I feel that they have the basic idea right and God would not banish to hell those who believe in Him. They might earn themselves a few extra years working off their sins in Purgatory but at the end of the day, our God is a forgiving God and I don't feel He would condemn those who follow Him just because they got led off the right path.

    By extension of that, I don't feel Muslims, Mormons or Jews are destined for hell. I'm a Catholic but I know I'm far from a perfect example of Catholisism and I imagine that I will have time to work off myself, so I don't feel as though I'm necessarily any better in God's eyes than anyone who truely believes, even if they don't follow the path I try to follow.

    It takes strength to follow Catholisism to the letter, a strength I suspect few (if any) of us here have. I strive to be a better Catholic but it won't happen today or tomorrow.
    Similarly, I believe that anyone who is pure of heart and soul and wishes to follow what God wants, even if they have been led astray, is not necessarily hellbound.

    Now these Mormons don't know what they believe. :D
    Not that the Christian guy is exactly meek about it but I thought it was amusing.


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    #9
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Would you put our lord to the test by tampering with his word and then go preaching a different gospel altogether other than salvation in Christ alone?

    Absolutely not, but there are more ways to put the message across instead of telling people they are going to hell. To teach Christ one should not dwell on scaremongering, there is a practical use to Christianity in daily life, wouldn't you agree? Then why not talk of the benefits and what people can do with their lives. Positive is the way to go in my opinion.


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    #10
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I reject the Mormonism because its straight from the pits of hell because they totally deny the diety of Christ!
    Nothing like shooting straight from the hip! Blast them all with fire and brimstone (especially the Catholics and the anti-Christ, the Pope) :)


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    #11
    Fanny Cradock
    Registered Users Posts: 10,245 ✭✭✭✭Fanny Cradock


    I sense another 'in-house' brawl


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    #12
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    As do I. But I feel it's important that all respect God's authority in issues of damnation. I would like to speak to members of the LDS more about their faith, I have spoken with a particular member on MSN. There are theological differences that I could never accept, however I will respect the word of my neighbour should they be willing to discuss it.
    Wicknight wrote:
    The bits about the false prophets are in the Old Testament, and all the Jew all thought Jesus and his followers were false prophets for the same reason you think Smith is one.

    According to the New Testament itself (I will however admit that this is not very objective), but it says that the people thought of John the Baptist and Jesus to be prophets. Herod feared killing John for this reason, and the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law were unable to say that John the Baptist did not gain his Authority from God. The verse that leads to the common concept of Christology also claims that Jesus was though as a prophet, along with sections of the Gospel of John.

    Deuteronomy 18:18 allows scope for the earthly prophesy of Jesus Christ, however it does not allow scope for Joseph Smith. However the Apostles were prophets and Paul had seen much from Jesus Christ in visions according to his letters. The first of these revelations being on the road to Damascus. However Jesus warned against false prophets, and the translation of the sources of the Book of Mormon (whereas there is both historical and factual basis behind much of the sources behind the Gospels) is a bit dubious. Joseph is reported to have translated it using seer stones in a hat.


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    #13
    Asiaprod
    Registered Users Posts: 6,737 ✭✭✭Asiaprod


    Run_to_da_hills that initial post of yours is way over the top and arguably violates the charter. Tone it down please.
    Asia


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    #14
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Asiaprod wrote: »
    Run_to_da_hills that initial post of yours is way over the top and arguably violates the charter. Tone it down please.
    Asia
    Sorry, I got a bit carried away, Ive just removed the sting from it.:o


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    #15
    8kvscdpglqnyr4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 413 ✭✭8kvscdpglqnyr4


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    I reject the Mormonism because it totally deny the diety of Christ! The God of the Bible emphatically says
    Damn ... only logged back on now and I missed the post of the day:D


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    #16
    8kvscdpglqnyr4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 413 ✭✭8kvscdpglqnyr4


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Thank you for this post. Can I ask you why if you are a Mormon, you reject say the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, the Pali Canon and the Qu'ran?
    I'm not a Mormon.
    I do reject the Bhagavad Gita, the Vedas, the Pali Canon and the Qu'ran ... and the Bible as well. I'm an atheist and I'm trying to get my head around why most Christians I know of think Mormons are "nuts". I'm not stating every Christian thinks like this, however ALL Christians I've every had this conversation with have sneered at Mormons. When I listen to them talk about Mormons, they gasp in disbelief at the crazy tales Mormons believe (golden tablets, book of Mormon, ... etc). These tales sound all too familiar to me:D

    Looking at Christanity from the outside, I find it hard to see why every Christian isn't a Mormon. How can a Christian reject the book of Mormon and not any books of the Bible? If I could manage to believe any of the books of the Bible were true, then I imagine it woundn't be a huge leap of faith to add one more book to it (i.e. the book of Mormon).
    Run_to_da_hills wrote:
    God gives some stern warnings for those who would add to His word or take away from it...
    How can you quote the Bible to reject the book of Mormon? You are quoting one Christian book that is divinely revealed to refute the claims of another divinely revealed Christian book ... the irony!


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    #17
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Gianluca Flaky Elk wrote: »
    How can you quote the Bible to reject the book of Mormon? You are quoting one Christian book that is divinely revealed to refute the claims of another divinely revealed Christian book ... the irony!
    Who said the book of mormon is a divine revealed Christian book? If you go to a market and pick up a bootleg dvd of the latest movie you will know well that it is a counterfeit, the picture quality is poor, sound can be distorted and the ink on the cover is faded. likewise would be the same for a "counterfeit" of the teachings of Christ.

    The Bible is full of warnings against error and the corruption of God's revelation. That's because Satan and his demons are working overtime corrupting God's truth, propagating worldwide error, and confusing people through organised religion.


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    #18
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Gianluca Flaky Elk wrote: »
    How can you quote the Bible to reject the book of Mormon? You are quoting one Christian book that is divinely revealed to refute the claims of another divinely revealed Christian book ... the irony!

    There are distinct differences between mainline Christian theology and Mormonism. I'd accept it as Christian based, but not distinctly Christian. It shares the same status as Rastafarism in my view.


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    #19
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Jakkass wrote: »
    There are distinct differences between mainline Christian theology and Mormonism. I'd accept it as Christian based, but not distinctly Christian. It shares the same status as Rastafarism in my view.
    Just because it contains words and names that are found in the Bible dose not necessary make it out to be "Christian" based. If Satan wants to do a good job and trick someone he will not come up with a blatent lie, he will hide himself in the meat!

    The Bible in 2 Corinthians 11:14-15 warns of Satan's counterfeit: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness, "


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    #20
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    I reject Mormonism because it denies the deity of Christ.

    It speaks of a civilisation in North America that never did exist.

    It's theology goes agianst the teachings of the Bible.

    When Joseph Smith received his vision and directions to the plates on Cumorah he should have tested the plates teachings with the teachings of Christ. He would have found definite teachings that wre not in agreement with the teachings of Christ and rejected them as being false.

    Teachings on marriage, godhood and salvation come immediately to mind. As well as the teaching of who Christ is.


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    #21
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    I reject Mormonism because it denies the deity of Christ.

    Pretty sure Mormons believe that Jesus was God. They don't believe in the Trinity. But sure judging by this forum neither do half the Christians who wander on here. They see Jesus as a separate entity, but still the one "God".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhead_%28Latter_Day_Saints%29


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    #22
    bonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 15,443 ✭✭✭✭bonkey


    From my perspective, Mormons seem to be yet another group who insist that their belief is the true Christianity, and that others may call themselves such but aren't really Christian.

    Unlike most of these other groups, they seem to invoke less acceptance and more rejection from their fellow Christian-claimant faiths.


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    #23
    po0k
    Registered Users Posts: 15,815 ✭✭✭✭po0k


    I reject Mormons because any rational being capable of analytical thought can see that it is a scam from a charlatan that too many people thought was a good idea/revenue stream.
    It is Snakeoil and utter ball sausage.


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    #24
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    SyxPak wrote: »
    I reject Mormons because any rational being capable of analytical thought can see that it is a scam from a charlatan that too many people thought was a good idea/revenue stream.
    It is Snakeoil and utter ball sausage.

    You mean you are not swayed by the magical mystical underwear ?

    180px-Garment.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upYoCHyCv4


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    #25
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Pretty sure Mormons believe that Jesus was God. They don't believe in the Trinity. But sure judging by this forum neither do half the Christians who wander on here. They see Jesus as a separate entity, but still the one "God".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhead_%28Latter_Day_Saints%29

    They see Jesus as being 'a' god. Whereas teh Bible states that there is only one God. The Bible also states that Jesus is "God with us".

    Mormonism also teaches that when you die you eventually become a god yourslef and get your planet to populate, hence the need for a heavenly wife.

    Also your wife can only get to Heaven if yoy the husband allow her to get in.

    All quite at odds with Christianity.


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    #26
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    They see Jesus as being 'a' god. Whereas teh Bible states that there is only one God. The Bible also states that Jesus is "God with us".

    Mormonism also teaches that when you die you eventually become a god yourslef and get your planet to populate, hence the need for a heavenly wife.

    Also your wife can only get to Heaven if yoy the husband allow her to get in.

    All quite at odds with Christianity.

    On the other hand, it sounds like a very good bet for Pascal's Wager - the more so since, afaik, you can be converted after you're dead.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #27
    BrianCalgary
    Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭BrianCalgary


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    On the other hand, it sounds like a very good bet for Pascal's Wager - the more so since, afaik, you can be converted after you're dead.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    I trust that you are speaking of the Mormon practice of baptising the dead?

    The theology of becoming a god and populating your own planet precipitated the necessity for having many wives in order to fulfil the arduous task of bearing so many children. A friend of mine once noted that Mormonism was started by a bunch of dirty old men who wanted to have the maid legally.

    With the man making the decision to bring the woman across the veil means that th ewoman is completely dependant upon th eman for her salvation.


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    #28
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    They see Jesus as being 'a' god. Whereas teh Bible states that there is only one God.
    Again, having lived with a Mormon in college (strange, strange fellow), I'm pretty sure they see Jesus as being the one "God".

    The book of Mormon describes God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Ghost as being the "one God"

    Jesus is a separate being from the Father, but they are all the one God
    Book of Mormon, Moshiah, Chapter 15 wrote:
    1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall bcome down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.
    2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—
    3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—
    4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

    I suppose at the end of the day it comes down to what one means by "god" or "God"

    My (limited) understand is that all the "gods" that Mormons talk about are actually pieces of God's spirit. Basically everything is God.


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    #29
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    BrianCalgary wrote: »
    The theology of becoming a god and populating your own planet precipitated the necessity for having many wives in order to fulfil the arduous task of bearing so many children. A friend of mine once noted that Mormonism was started by a bunch of dirty old men who wanted to have the maid legally.

    You would make a good atheist Brian :D


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    #30
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Wicknight wrote: »
    You would make a good atheist Brian :D

    Well, he is an atheist - he's just atheist about one less God.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #31
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Thaedydal wrote: »
    You mean you are not swayed by the magical mystical underwear ?

    180px-Garment.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9upYoCHyCv4
    Do I spot the St Bernard label? :)


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